Shadow Chancellor Mel Stride has hit out at Labour's "chaotic" welfare reforms, warning that British taxpayers will "pay the price" if the crunch vote passes.Outlining the proposed £2.5billion reforms on Monday, Work and Pensions Secretary Liz Kendall said the Labour Government want a "fair society" for Britons.FULL STORY HERE.
00:00You'd like to have great expectations of defeating it.
00:03We have very low expectations, I'm afraid, of everything this government does.
00:07I mean, the chances are this will limp over the line.
00:09The metrics will be there.
00:11But the Conservative position, can you spell out to us how you'll be voting against it?
00:16On what basis?
00:17So, really on two basis.
00:18It's not principle welfare reform.
00:21You have to be thoughtful and do it properly if you're going to reform something that's going to affect millions of people.
00:26Firstly, it's not going to save enough money.
00:28The welfare bills are still going to be spiralling ever upwards.
00:33And the second thing is, it's actually going to be very unfair to some vulnerable people who are caught up in the sheer bluntness of the way in which they pulled at this lever at the last minute to try and make the savings.
00:43And make no mistake, what has actually happened here is they've mismanaged the economy.
00:48So, Rachel Reid's the Chancellor, has blown all that fiscal headroom she had.
00:51In order to try and patch it up, she turned around at the very last minute and said to DWP, find me five billion.
00:58That's not what should drive a welfare policy.
01:01It should not be scrabbling around for money at the last minute as they've been forced into.
01:05It should be proper principled reform.
01:07And on that basis, we vote against.
01:08Is it worth pointing out that the PIP benefits payouts have simply gone through the roof?
01:14And that started during COVID.
01:16It started during the Conservative government's watch.
01:19Part of the problem is that people aren't processed face-to-face anymore.
01:22We've seen astonishing data out today.
01:24There are now huge clusters of people claiming to have anxiety and depression in the Welsh Valleys, in Merseyside, in County Durham.
01:33It has to be said, these are Labour voting areas.
01:36And Liz Kennell said none of those claims will be looked into.
01:40There will be no retrospective looking back at what clearly could be wide open to abuse.
01:46So, on the one hand, this problem did start on the Conservative watch.
01:51But surely we need to be clamping down these claims and thoroughly and vigorously cross-examining them all.
01:57Yeah, absolutely.
01:58You have to have a proper assessment process and so on.
02:00When we were in power, and I was Secretary of State at Work and Pensions,
02:04we had actually started a consultation on how to reform PIP.
02:08And my concern was that PIP was far too blunt as a benefit.
02:13There was a cash transfer payments to lots of people with lots of different conditions,
02:17some of whom would be much better, for example, if it's a mental health condition,
02:21getting some kind of support rather than simply cash year in, year out.
02:26That's the way you fundamentally reform benefits to do two things.
02:30Firstly, target appropriate support on those that need it.
02:33But secondly, get the bills down, because the welfare bill, including with PIP, is spiralling over upwards.
02:39Did you regret that, as a Tory government, for taking away those in-person questions on PIP?
02:44That seems to be identified by the big spike after 2019.
02:48We know why it happened, because of COVID.
02:50So that's allowed people to get away with it.
02:52That happened back when the pandemic was on, when it was physically impossible to actually meet.
02:55But that was on your watch, Mel?
02:57Well, not when I was Secretary of State, as it happens.
02:59But nonetheless, it's hard to see how you could have face-to-face assessments during lockdown, for example,
03:04when it was illegal to actually meet up in that way.
03:07But yes, that is part of the issue.
03:09But it all comes back to fundamental reform.
03:12And all of these problems come back to the fact that Rachel Reeves suddenly needed to save some money at the last minute.
03:18DWP were told to fine £5 billion.
03:21That is not the basis of what you should do.
03:23And writing checks on the backs of the people who can't afford it.
03:25You should not be reforming welfare on that basis.
03:27Just right now, as it's breaking now in Westminster, we looked at the government will offer the implementation of the four-point threshold,
03:35which is how you calculate PIP payments, after the TIMS review.
03:39Do you know what that might cost?
03:42So I don't know.
03:42I mean, they originally started about £5 billion in savings.
03:46It's fallen to £2.5 billion on the current concession.
03:49It might mean less savings.
03:49What matters is where it lands at the end of something called the forecast period,
03:54so rather than what happens in the early years of the change.
03:57But you've got to assume hundreds of millions of pounds.
03:59Being cut.
04:00So right now, that could be...
04:02At the end of the day, Chris, all your viewers need to know is this bungling,
04:05this chaos, is going to lead to more tax rises in the autumn.
04:09So taxpayers up and down the country, working hard, are going to pay the price for all that we're discussing.
