Putin 'prepared to go far in order to break Ukraine's will to resist'

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00:00attack. A Russian missile and drone bombardment of Ukraine killing 15 people

00:04and injuring 156 in those 15 of course that American casualty. The main barrage

00:11demolishing a nine-story Kiev apartment building. The deadliest attack on the

00:16capital this year. At least 14 people killed as explosions echoed across the

00:20Ukrainian capital key for almost nine hours. Emmanuel Macron of France has

00:25condemned the Russian attack on Kiev this Tuesday saying that it shows

00:28Vladimir Putin's cynicism. Well let's get more analysis and bring in

00:33Orissia Lutsevich who's deputy director of the Russia and Eurasian program at

00:38Chatham House. Thank you so much for being with us. Putin clearly it seems taking

00:43advantage while the eyes of the world are on the Israel-Iran conflict.

00:49It's interesting that Putin has ramped up his attacks against the civilians after

00:54the inauguration of Donald Trump and we have numbers that show that for the same

00:59period or between January and April last year and this year the number of civilian

01:05casualties increased nearly 60 percent. So he is showing the force that he would like

01:12to impose a war termination on Ukraine and this is what I think he's been discussing with

01:19Donald Trump behind the closed doors in these two lengthy conversations. That Russia cannot

01:25be defeated, that there is no military solution and that he's prepared to go far in order to break

01:30the will of Ukraine to resist. This is what he's doing is achieving no military purposes on the

01:36battlefield. It's not military infrastructure unlike Ukraine that has been attacking strategic

01:42aviation airports, fuel depots. These are the cold-blooded killing of civilians in an open day.

01:50Well, as you're speaking, we're seeing the images. It is very obvious that these are residential

01:55targets that have been hit by Russia and clearly, as you say, the Russia is becoming more and more brazen,

02:00more and more bold in terms of their open targeting of civilians. Something that's happened on Trump's watch.

02:07Trump said he wanted to end the war. It's looking nowhere near like reaching even at the temporary

02:12ceasefire. You're absolutely right and I think this is the kind of a deadly paradox that we are seeing.

02:20Ukrainians and Europeans are trying to convince Trump that there is only one way to peace and

02:25that is to strength and that strength should be expressed by providing Ukraine everything it needs

02:31to stop Russian invasion and to protect its skies and also through curtailing Russia and capability to

02:39wage the war. It means squeezing it out of the global oil and gas markets and imposing more sanctions on

02:46Russian economy. Something that Trump has not done. We've only seen pressure on Zelensky to concede from him,

02:54but nothing from Trump. But you know, for Ukraine, it's so important that even as Trump left earlier,

03:01the G6, if you want leaders, met with Ukrainian leader. They've again committed to Ukraine's sovereignty

03:09and Ukraine's security. And this is what is critical this year as America may get involved in this wider

03:17war in the Middle East. And let's remember Iran is Russian ally. And there could be another quid pro quo between

03:24Moscow and Washington about what role Putin will play in that conflict. Let's remember that it

03:30supplies aviation, it supplies military technology to Iran, and it has a special agreement with Tehran.

03:40Indeed, that would put Trump very much at loggerheads with someone who we views, well,

03:45someone who has openly said that he admires Vladimir Putin. Orissia, the US now condemning the

03:51Russian attack on Kyiv because there is an American that has been killed. Now, in the scheme of things,

03:59if you look at the number of casualties on the Ukrainian side, on the Russian side, and Donald

04:03Trump saying he doesn't want to see people killed, this one American casualty changing, it seems by one

04:09statement, the Trump administration's view of what happens. I think this is the first time they've

04:13actually come out and condemned a Russian attack on Ukraine. Well, from what I remember recently,

04:21he also said you have to stop Vladimir when he again attacked Kyiv recently. But so far, other than,

04:28you know, statements of appeal like that, we have not seen any specific action. Exactly the bill that is in

04:36the Congress that would curtail Russian capability to bypass sanctions to a deployed shadow fleet has

04:46not been passed. And we hear from news reporting that a special commission that was set up on the

04:51pressure on Putin has been dismantled. That was a cross agency commission. So it is not clear whether

04:59Trump will be ready to walk the talk. Every life is precious. Life of an American and so many Ukrainians

05:06is valuable. But what is Trump doing to protect those lives? He could easily dispatch more air

05:11defense to Ukraine, Patriot missiles that are able to take Russian missiles and other capabilities.

05:19But he's not making these kinds of statements. Orisio Lutsevich, I'm going to leave it there.

05:23Thank you very much indeed. Deputy Director of the Russia and Eurasia Programme at Chatham House.

05:28Orisio Lutsevich, thank you very much for joining us. And we remind you all that Vladimir Putin, of course,

05:32is still the subject of an international arrest warrant for war crimes committed in Ukraine.

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