Border Talks Inside Out | Iftikhar Firdous | ARY News | 12th June 2025 - video Dailymotion

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00:00Thank you very much.

00:30Thank you very much.

04:41I think that we saw a development in the ideology of the militant groups that are operating today

04:43in Pakistan.

04:45And those two major trends are localized conflicts and struggles and insurgency and those three

04:56taraf we have the uh international groups which is mostly daish khorasan so uh we we saw the

05:06development of how local groups uh adjusted their propaganda and narratives to the uh grievances

05:15of the perceived or factual as basit was saying of the local population capitalizing on them

05:22like industrial draft the threat uh of the islamic state of daish khorasan uh we can see that it's a

05:31combination of ideology and also local grievances and here ideology plays a more huge role role uh for

05:41uh the um for the conception of a um fantastic non-realistic utopian

05:53regime that they want to uh they want to establish and this is what really has empowered them to

06:00spread this ideology uh across pakistan as well as the uh the the west and there is and this is one of

06:08the most important factor that the localized struggle and instances don't have is the cross-contamination

06:15of ideologies from on the online sphere that they can acquire uh through these online tools and then

06:24contaminate them uh whether they are in europe in turkey in iran in pakistan or afghanistan so these

06:31are the two major trends that we are witnessing here in uh in pakistan if that makes sense to to you

06:37yeah it perfectly makes sense just in terms of uh you know uh one clarity that uh i would require

06:45in terms of the comments that you made is the local ideology is just how much space is there now for

06:53global ideologies or global ideologies or it's just local grievances

06:59so uh for uh uh with regards to localized uh struggles uh uh misal ketor part

07:16dtp or baloch nationalist groups uh they have built uh a local ideology which shifted from global

07:27international agenda following the example of what we witnessed in afghanistan and now also in syria

07:33uh as uh uh as uh um winning models and now we are we're witnessing these local militant groups uh

07:44following these uh the this path as well in uh in pakistan just to mention uh the recent statements

07:52that put out by the lagian faction accusing sectarian groups in pakistan and daish korasan but

07:58uh not uh not mentioning uh the gtp just for instance and so so so so i got my answer there

08:06just a while in kaka uh local conflicts hameisha johai wo international triggers ke

08:12tor par johai wo istimal hoti lekin basit bai aap se yee bhi poochna chata hoon ke uh local

08:18grievances wo governance issues ki wajah se bhi kafi zyada aap samajta hai ke kya governance

08:23ka kisoo ka fukadah justice ka kis chis ka fukadah ta eevilipmen ka ka kis chis ka fukadah

08:38Where is the center of gravity?

08:40Where is the center of gravity?

08:42One is the K.P.

08:43Especially the newly merged districts.

08:46What is the government?

08:49What is the development?

08:52What is the genuine political representation?

08:56A genuine unhindered political process?

09:00If you look at the social contract and the relationship

09:04If you look critically

09:06The glue that holds the social contact together is governance

09:10So if governance goes missing

09:13Then people's aspirations

09:16The demands and expectations

09:18The alternative center of powers

09:23They are standing on the periphery

09:25And non-state actors

09:27Who are Baloch Insurgents

09:29Or TTP

09:31They are going to fill the government

09:36And because they are going to fill the government

09:38Or they are going to fill the government

09:40Or they are going to fill the government

09:41As parallel power centers

09:42They are going to fill the government

09:43So there are vulnerable segments

09:45Which are disenfranchised

09:48Which are alienated

09:49Especially young people

09:51If they have those vulnerabilities

09:54To play

09:55In the local

09:56Do they have the grievances

09:57They have the government

09:59They have instructions

10:00They have the identity

10:01They have the representation

10:03They have the representation

10:04They have the role of employment

10:06So then they have all

10:08In theience

10:09which is the stream line

10:11is starting to get started

10:13but I will ask you to go to the break

10:15but I will ask you to ask you to ask you to ask me

10:17what the policy level

10:19is particularly the majority literature

10:21which is written by Western authors

10:23which is written by the Western authors

10:25which is written by the 313 groups

10:27which are almost finished

10:29and that is the debate

10:31we will ask you to break

10:33and then we will ask you to go to the

10:39Welcome back

10:41Wale, I wanted to ask you this question

10:43actually

10:45the new changing dynamics

10:47and how governments

10:49across the globe are actually framing

10:51their policies

10:53why do we see that the nuances are not

10:55being understood

10:57even the other day we had this debate

10:59with the Pakistani minister

11:01on an international TV channel

11:03talking of a defunct organization

11:05such as the 313 Brigade

11:07do you see that people have grasped

11:09the nuances or it's just the old

11:11that people are recalibrating again

11:13and again

11:15the case of the

11:17Mary I'll say

11:19this

11:21discussion

11:23Brigade 313

11:25camera may or

11:27other militant organizations historical

11:29militant organization

11:31that we are not witnessing any more active

11:33is a source of confusion

11:37and also of commotion

11:39among the larger public

11:41and this is because

11:43these militant groups have been operating

11:45in the past

11:47and today they have a legacy

11:49not only in the larger public

11:51but also in the militant sphere

11:53however, having said that

11:55the importance of

11:57the discussion that should be around

11:59these militant groups

12:01and specifically

12:03the 313 Brigade

12:05is again

12:07on the factual evidence that we have

12:09that such groups is still operating

12:11and we do not have any factual evidence

12:13that this group operating

12:15after 2011

12:17we have last major attacks claimed by the GTP

12:19and carried out together with the Brigade 313

12:21CID

12:23but after that, after the killing of Elias Kashmiri

12:25who was the mastermind

12:27the main man behind

12:29the 313 Brigade

12:31the group eventually fractured

12:33now

12:35the discussion

12:37around militant environment

12:39in Pakistan should not be confined

12:41solely to the historical

12:43tracks of these groups

12:45but in order to understand

12:47the current development, the current scenario

12:49in Pakistan

12:51it should address

12:53those groups that are actually

12:55now operating and dissecting

12:57as we discussed

12:59the ideology

13:01and also the grievances

13:03that these militant groups are

13:05putting forward

13:07so with regards to

13:09the Brigade 313

13:11we can fairly say

13:13that there is no evidence

13:15neither in literature nor in attacks

13:17in Pakistan

13:19as well as in the

13:21in the rest of the

13:23of the region

13:25we do know that some of the people

13:27the militants that were working with the Brigade 313

13:29either shifted towards

13:31AQIS

13:33the Al-Qaeda branch

13:35in the subcontinent

13:37with regards to attacks

13:39publishing statements

13:41and publishing new narratives

13:43on the subcontinent

13:45and

13:47and then we know that some factions

13:49some local militants

13:51they have shifted towards

13:53one of the major groups that has been

13:55changing over the years

13:57in the U.S.

13:59in the U.S.

14:00in the U.S.

14:01of the

14:02Pakistani Taliban

14:03however

14:04again

14:05the

14:06these

14:07military again

14:08as we were talking before

14:09but these are all on the peripheries

14:11while they're

14:12they're not more urbanized

14:13they're all groups that have been

14:15periphery

14:16not like what we saw in the post

14:182001 or earlier than that

14:21absolutely absolutely

14:23and here is the

14:24here is the trick

14:25and here is

14:26where the discussion

14:27should actually focus instead

14:28on the name of the organization

14:30whether it is active or not

14:31the discussion should be on

14:33how these groups

14:35developed over time

14:36and for instance the TTG

14:38how we develop over time

14:40and how some members of the Brigade 313

14:42who were all from urban areas

14:44they were from Punjab and Sin

14:46and they were focused on

14:48very they were tightly linked to Al-Qaeda

14:50we have papers

14:52we know that

14:53Elias Kashmiri

14:54had been in contact

14:55with OBL

14:56before 9-11

14:57he had been in contact

14:58with Abu Yazid

14:59the responsible of Al-Qaeda

15:01in Pakistan

15:02he had been in contact

15:03of course with

15:04Abu Yahya al-Libi

15:05and etc

15:06but this is all history

15:07now we're talking

15:08something completely different

15:09which is radicated

15:11in the

15:12in a grass

15:13in local

15:14localized insurgency

15:15okay so I

15:16have little time

15:17I'm just going to ask you

15:18one last question

15:19before I actually

15:20asked Basset

15:21for the last comments

15:22how do you see the future

15:23do you see more splinter groups

15:25more nascent groups

15:26more active groups

15:29in Pakistan

15:30with regards to

15:31jihadist environment

15:33it had

15:34it has been totally

15:35monopolized by

15:36the TTP

15:37and the TTG

15:38which

15:39even though they are

15:40in competition with each other

15:41for resources

15:42and local militants

15:43they are also allied

15:44and they work

15:45and they work

15:46and they work

15:47together in certain

15:48specific areas

15:49of Pakistan

15:50where they share

15:51areas of operation

15:53so

15:54the trend that

15:55we've been witnessing

15:56in Pakistan

15:57since 2021

15:58is actually

15:59structuring

16:01of the militant

16:03of the jihadist sphere

16:04in Pakistan

16:05which goes beyond

16:06which goes beyond

16:07the identity

16:08of one single

16:09commander

16:11of leader

16:12of the militant's environment

16:15but again

16:16it has to be seen

16:17because we know that

16:18in the past

16:19the TTP suffered

16:20it's the most difficult moments

16:22when the leader

16:23got

16:24neutralized

16:26by

16:27by Pakistan

16:28and the US

16:29so we will have to see

16:30what happened

16:31if the current leader

16:32will suffer

16:33the same thing

16:34I'll go to Basit

16:35now

16:36Basit

16:37the last comments

16:38the landscape shift

16:40with regional realities

16:42do you see

16:43that the militant landscape

16:45and the proxy walls

16:46will be more intensified

16:47and they have the capability

17:14of instigating a war

17:15when you get a threat

17:17of a conflict

17:18between two

17:19nuclear states

17:20and a terrorist attack

17:21and evidence

17:22to give the evidence

17:23and it will be considered

17:24a declaration of war

17:26then

17:27when you have

17:28a very complex landscape

17:30the threat landscape

17:31and militant landscape

17:32like Pakistan

17:33and Afghanistan

17:34and these chips

17:35are within

17:36an alphabet soup of groups

17:37like a big group

17:38which is known

17:40as the first of all

17:41you need to do

17:42is one successful attack

17:44and there you go

17:45So if you have a plan for this, 313 Brigade,

17:48so you have to have a plan for this.

17:51So if someone has a agenda on the same idea,

17:54then they will have a footprint on the ground.

17:56They will have a attack,

17:58India and Pakistan.

18:00And now, the discourse is over.

18:04I'm not sure.

18:06A complex landscape of this,

18:08which is a complex landscape and this is a way of

18:11جو ہے منجمت تھی کسی زمانے کے اندر

18:13obviously ایک

18:15اس کی ایک اپنی history ایک counter terrorism

18:17کے حوالے سے کہ کس طرح ان areas کو جو ہے

18:19وہ صاف کیا گیا اور دوہزار اکیس کے

18:21بعد دوبارہ سے ایک trend جو ہے وہ شروع ہوا

18:23جو کافی حد تک control ہے لیکن

18:25peripheries میں ابھی تک اس کے problem جو ہے

18:27وہ نظر آتا ہے لیکن اس سے بڑھ کر جو ہے

18:29خطے کی جو

18:31مجموعی صورتحال ہے اس کے اندر

18:33جو اتار چڑھاؤ جو ہے دیکھنے میں آ رہے ہیں

18:35اور نئے alliances دیکھنے میں آ رہے ہیں

18:37ابھی بھی security کے challenges

18:39جو ہے وہ موجود ہیں پروگرام دیکھتے رہیے گا

18:41انشاءاللہ کل آپ سے دوبارہ

18:43ملیں گے خدا حافظ

Border Talks Inside Out | Iftikhar Firdous | ARY News | 12th June 2025

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