On Tuesday, the Senate Foreign Relations Committee held a hearing entitled, ‘China’s Malign Influence In Africa.’
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00:00:00Good afternoon.
00:00:01The hearing of the Senate Foreign Relations, Africa and Global Health Policy Subcommittee
00:00:06will come to order.
00:00:07Welcome to our witness.
00:00:09Thank you all for joining us today.
00:00:12There is a consensus emerging, first, that for decades the United States has been disregarding
00:00:20acute national security challenges and critical opportunities in Africa.
00:00:26And second, that for the safety and prosperity of Americans, we can no longer afford to do
00:00:32so.
00:00:33I believe that consensus is both correct and long overdue.
00:00:38The emphasis and attention that President Trump has already given to Africa is a demonstration
00:00:43of that consensus.
00:00:45Those challenges and opportunities are vast.
00:00:49They include threats posed by China, Russia, and Iran, as well as an array of regional crises.
00:00:59There are also wide-ranging options for cooperation on everything from critical minerals to technology
00:01:07and even space development.
00:01:09I intend for this subcommittee to serve as a primary forum for shaping and articulating
00:01:14the policies of the United States towards Africa on these issues and beyond.
00:01:20The Constitution envisions foreign policy as a tug-of-war between Congress and the executive.
00:01:27I have no doubt that over the coming months and years, there will be many instances in which
00:01:31members of this committee have vigorous and robust debates with administration officials
00:01:36testifying before us.
00:01:39Such debates are a necessary part of formulating policy.
00:01:43However, I also have every expectation that there will be significant areas of bipartisan
00:01:49convergence and agreement.
00:01:52Many of the challenges we face are so fundamental and have been neglected for so long that what
00:01:58needs to be done is relatively clear.
00:02:02We have an enormous amount of work to do.
00:02:05These hearings will allow for the formulation of U.S. policies and will more fundamentally demonstrate
00:02:12that the United States has a policy towards Africa.
00:02:16Today's hearing is on China's malign influence in Africa.
00:02:21China represents the most significant, long-term, strategic threat to the United States.
00:02:28I believe that fundamentally, China is a global threat that must be confronted globally, region
00:02:37by region.
00:02:39Among those regions, pressingly, is Africa.
00:02:43China is exercising its military, economic, and political power and advancing its authoritarian
00:02:49agenda all while undermining the sovereignty of African nations and the strategic interest of
00:02:55the United States.
00:02:57Politically and diplomatically, China is leveraging its growing influence to marginalize U.S. allies,
00:03:06most notably Taiwan.
00:03:08The Chinese Communist Party is pouring billions into its Belt and Road Initiative, trapping African
00:03:14countries in unsustainable debt, and using these arrangements to block American interests.
00:03:22The primary reason why China is investing so heavily in Africa is critical minerals.
00:03:28China already dominates critical mineral global supply chains, and China is aggressively locking
00:03:35up control over these resources across Africa.
00:03:39That leaves the United States vulnerable to being cut off.
00:03:45Xi Jinping talks about, quote, world socialism, and declares that, quote, realizing communism has
00:03:54been the party's supreme ideal and ultimate objective.
00:04:00The CCP is building a military capable of global power projection and creating regional economic
00:04:07blocks that exclude the United States because they intend to project power globally at the expense
00:04:14of core American national security interests.
00:04:19Countering Chinese malign influence in Africa requires us to reshape the paradigm of U.S.-Africa
00:04:26policy.
00:04:28For decades, U.S.-Africa policy has been synonymous with aid and development.
00:04:34Today, we are changing that paradigm.
00:04:38Today and into the future, U.S.-Africa policy will revolve around investment-led commercial diplomacy.
00:04:47To counter China, we need to partner with our allies and friends in Africa to promote, expand, and
00:04:54grow trade and investment relationships.
00:04:58To be an alternative to China, we have to create real alternatives to China.
00:05:04This is what we will discuss today.
00:05:06I want to thank Ambassador Fitrell for joining us today, and I look forward to hearing your
00:05:11testimony and insights into this critical issue.
00:05:13I now recognize Ranking Member Booker for his opening remarks.
00:05:16I want to thank the chairman for calling really an urgent hearing.
00:05:19I want to thank our witness.
00:05:20I think we're going to have a really good conversation.
00:05:24I want to thank you also for your flexibility.
00:05:25I know we bounced around with the time.
00:05:28It just means a lot.
00:05:29As you know, we're pulled in a million different directions, and your courtesy there is extraordinary.
00:05:34This is an issue, as we talked a moment ago privately, that is of great importance to me, and where there
00:05:40has been in my years on the Foreign Relations Committee extraordinary bipartisan connectivity.
00:05:47We know that while we cannot disregard the malign activities of China, Russia, and other
00:05:53foreign actors across the continent, we cannot only look at Africa through the lens of the
00:05:58great power competition.
00:06:00It's important that we, as America, affirm our larger values, because if we ignore Africa's
00:06:05connection to our future, to America's future security, to America's future prosperity on
00:06:13its own merits, then we do so at our own peril.
00:06:16The continent of Africa is an indispensable set of opportunities and interconnections that
00:06:22are vital.
00:06:23One great example of that is that Africa has this extraordinary future ahead of us.
00:06:28is a growing population of youth, and by 2050, one in four people on the planet Earth will
00:06:34be from Africa.
00:06:35And because of the youth bulge there, one in every three working-age human beings on the
00:06:42planet Earth by 2050 will be from Africa.
00:06:46I have found great partnership over the years with Secretary Rubio when he was a senator.
00:06:51He has been someone who has understood the urgencies of the continent, especially through the context
00:06:57of that great power struggle.
00:07:00He looked and has said many times that people are the continent's most important advantage,
00:07:05and the U.S. policy towards Africa, according to our now Secretary of State, is to double
00:07:10down on our investments in our partnerships with African people.
00:07:14Not only will this approach directly benefit the United States, but it will undercut the
00:07:19PRC's influence by ensuring that the United States is the trusted partner of choice.
00:07:24You see, our values are our advantage.
00:07:28I've talked to so many African leaders, as I know my more eminent colleague Chris Coons
00:07:33has, and many of them tell us they don't want to deal with China.
00:07:38They prefer us.
00:07:39But China is showing up in places we are not, making connections and partnerships that we
00:07:44are not.
00:07:45If we are going to compete there, let's compete with our American values.
00:07:48They will win every single time.
00:07:50So, Ambassador, I share your interests in expanding trade with African countries and increasing
00:07:56U.S. commercial investments and connections between America and African businesses.
00:08:01When I go to Africa, I meet with Americans doing business there all of the time, and it's
00:08:05extraordinary.
00:08:06The upside, it is an emerging market that's going to, again, with that population growth,
00:08:11be vital for American-made products, American technology, American innovation.
00:08:16This is a place where America should be leaning in to thrive.
00:08:20However, we need a coherent strategy in order to take advantage of these extraordinary opportunities.
00:08:27And I'm concerned that the many Trump executive orders on tariffs and subsequent reversals suggest
00:08:33that no strategy really exists.
00:08:36And more importantly, the idea that the United States should not focus on commercial deal-making
00:08:41while ignoring stabilization issues, humanitarian need issues, and increasing good governance
00:08:47is really short-sighted and undermines the potential upside for Americans and American businesses.
00:08:53Right now, China has eclipsed Russia as the largest weapons exporter to Sub-Saharan Africa.
00:09:00Chinese drones, armed vehicles, firearms have flooded conflict zones from Sudan to West Africa
00:09:06and the Sahel.
00:09:08China's largest weapons producer, Anorinco, has established regional offices in Nigeria,
00:09:14South Africa, Angola, and Senegal.
00:09:17China's security ties to Africa transcend more than just weaponry as direct training and
00:09:22tactical information sharing increases.
00:09:26African governments, particularly those dealing with the threat of violent extremism, say they
00:09:30want to deepen their security and information sharing apparatus with the United States.
00:09:36So what is our strategy here?
00:09:38Commercial diplomacy is vital, but alone it will not get us to where we need to be.
00:09:43Further, should the rumors about potential dismantling of U.S. commands like AFRICOM occur,
00:09:50this will directly undermine our interests and cede further space to China in Africa.
00:09:56So to say that I am concerned about the Trump Administration's policies to date is a vast
00:10:00understatement.
00:10:02My private conversations, again with our Secretary of State, make me understand that he knows
00:10:07the importance and urgency of the work that I am discussing.
00:10:11But since January, the Trump Administration has undercut our partnerships across the continent
00:10:15and ceded ground to China at every turn.
00:10:18From cutting off life-saving humanitarian aid programs without warning to canceling global health
00:10:23programs that prevent the spread of infectious diseases.
00:10:26From terminating programs that feed the hungry and prevent conflict to canceling programs
00:10:30that lift people up out of poverty and keep children in school and prevent the recruitment
00:10:35into extremist groups.
00:10:37All things that inured to the benefit of our business interests as well as the moral values
00:10:41that guide our country.
00:10:43And despite claiming to want to increase economic opportunities, the Administration has terminated
00:10:48the bipartisan programs that build democratic reliance and a healthy workforce.
00:10:53foster good governments and level the playing field for American businesses trying to find
00:11:00new local partners and access new markets.
00:11:03One way to ensure deeper ties with African communities was through the President's Advisory Council on
00:11:09the African Diaspora Engagement.
00:11:11I see my nods from my colleague here.
00:11:14That we know that that actual work, that affirming good faith ties for business, it has so assisted
00:11:21the United States in identifying public and private sector exchanges and investments across Africa.
00:11:26It deepens our dialogue, our connection, and our shared values.
00:11:30But here are some examples of bipartisan programs that have either been terminated or paused.
00:11:37PEPFAR, HIV prevention programs that would help eliminate HIV and AIDS as a public health threat
00:11:43by 2030 if continued.
00:11:45While China aid takes over early childhood development and global health programs that the United States
00:11:51used to fund.
00:11:52They're filling our void.
00:11:54The MCC compacts that build critical infrastructure in Africa and partner countries.
00:11:59This is an extraordinary bipartisan work that we've done.
00:12:02The chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee was one of its big champions.
00:12:06Now, unfortunately, China expands its Belt and Road initiative with surveillance-wired buildings
00:12:11and infrastructure, debt-level leveraged aid and values that are antithetical to a real
00:12:16democratic partnership.
00:12:19Security and good governance programs are vital.
00:12:21While China increases CCP trainings and engagement with Africa policymakers, we are seeing democratic
00:12:27slippage, which ultimately threatens our way of life, as well as our ability to establish
00:12:33a world-based rules order.
00:12:35People-to-people educational and cultural exchanges, such as the Young African Leadership Initiative.
00:12:41This we know how many African leaders we meet when we're abroad that say, I was educated
00:12:46in the United States, and the value of that alone in advantaging the United States.
00:12:51But unfortunately, now we see China increasing their educational, commercial, and diplomatic
00:12:55exchange programs.
00:12:57Life-saving humanitarian aid programs, like in Sudan that I witnessed with my own eyes,
00:13:02where a child is dying every two hours due to malnutrition.
00:13:05We are stepping out.
00:13:06China is stepping in to increase its humanitarian response.
00:13:09The United States right now is taking a sledgehammer, not only to these vital programs that have
00:13:14been supported in a bipartisan way, that have unified our foreign relations committee.
00:13:19It is also taking a sledgehammer to U.S. credibility.
00:13:23This is something that is vital.
00:13:26In business, reputation is everything.
00:13:29The Trump administration has dealt a double blow now, ceding moral ground and losing strategic
00:13:35influence on top of undermining America's values and how they are embraced by African nations.
00:13:46We've created a vacuum that our competitors are showing they're willing to fill.
00:13:51In fact, they're racing to fill it.
00:13:52Not just China, but Russia, Iran, and others are stepping up on their Africa engagement and investments.
00:13:58These regimes do not bring hope.
00:14:00They bring surveillance, coercion, instability, and greater threats to the United States' security,
00:14:06safety, and prosperity.
00:14:09The United States' strategy across Africa has never been perfect.
00:14:12We can do better.
00:14:13We can do better than we did in the past.
00:14:15Better than what Trump is doing now.
00:14:17Better than what previous administrations have done.
00:14:20Certainly, though, with China and their plans and their investments, we need to step up.
00:14:25I look forward to hearing from your testimony today, and again, I'm grateful that we're
00:14:29holding this hearing.
00:14:30Thank you, Senator Booker.
00:14:33Ambassador Fitzgerald, you're now recognized for your opening statement.
00:14:36All right.
00:14:38Thank you, Chairman Cruz and Ranking Member Booker, and thank you, Senator Coons, for being
00:14:42here, and thank you for your interest in this subject.
00:14:45This is something I've dedicated most of the 30 years of my career to, and I find it incredibly
00:14:51a fulfilling and a positive task for all the challenges we have in Africa.
00:14:57These are absolutely exciting times, and I think the strategy we're going to put forward
00:15:01to that is going to be extremely helpful in advancing American interests and priorities,
00:15:07while countering China's interests.
00:15:09As the Senior Bureau Official for Africa, I'm honored to discuss our strategic priorities and the measures
00:15:14we're taking to ensure that our engagement furthers the Trump administration's goal of making
00:15:18America safer, stronger, and more prosperous.
00:15:22Africa's growing economies and population provide extraordinary opportunities for Americans and
00:15:26U.S. businesses.
00:15:27I think Senator Booker expressed most of those statistics pretty accurately, so I'll skip those.
00:15:33But new sectors are also gaining ground.
00:15:36The region's digital economy, valued at $180 billion in 2024, has quadrupled in the last 10 years.
00:15:43These are opportunities.
00:15:44And in the face of these opportunities, the U.S. share of exports to Sub-Saharan Africa has been in
00:15:50decline for decades.
00:15:52In 2000, the U.S. was the second largest exporter to Sub-Saharan Africa, but Beijing's government-backed
00:15:57strategies to capture African market share have led China to export $137 billion just in the last year,
00:16:05more than seven times what the United States has exported.
00:16:07This underscores a fundamental point.
00:16:09The opportunity in Sub-Saharan Africa is not theoretical.
00:16:13It's already being seized by our adversaries.
00:16:15For too long, the United States has prioritized development assistance over commercial engagement.
00:16:21And this has already begun to change under the Trump administration.
00:16:24We're now focusing on investment-led growth, which is more sustainable.
00:16:29Trade over aid is now truly America's policy for Africa.
00:16:32And we will prioritize engaging the African continent more strategically as peers and as partners.
00:16:38And the approach could not have come soon enough.
00:16:41Greater U.S. economic engagement is urgently needed to bolster African efforts to counter China's growing influence.
00:16:48China has long recognized the important role of Africa, and Sub-Saharan Africa's resources are part of
00:16:53Beijing's global hegemony ambitions.
00:16:56China's strategy for economic dominance relies on a centralized state-directed and nationally resourced
00:17:02approach to dominating global markets and strategic supply chains, limiting foreign competitors,
00:17:08and making other economies dependent on China.
00:17:11This is harmful to both American and African interests.
00:17:15China exploits Africa's natural resources in its play for dominance and control over global critical mineral supply chains.
00:17:21This is a clear example of the economic, political, and national security threats that China's influence in Africa poses.
00:17:29As Secretary Rubio stated during his confirmation hearing,
00:17:31it is in the interest of global peace and stability that we speak with China,
00:17:35but we cannot allow Beijing to continue to flout the rules, undermine us economically,
00:17:40or allow it to damage or weaken our alliances and our presence in the world.
00:17:44It is imperative for the United States and Africa to be free of Beijing's corrupt monopoly,
00:17:49especially in these supply chains we rely on for defense and innovation.
00:17:53African markets need to diversify, empowering the continent as it progresses and grows.
00:17:58So as I said, we're fundamentally shifting our approach to Africa to a strategy that prioritizes robust
00:18:04commercial engagement, recognizing African nations as equal partners in trade and investment.
00:18:09By focusing on private sector-led growth and empowering American companies to compete more effectively,
00:18:14the administration is responding to these long-standing gaps.
00:18:18We have six targeted actions designed to reposition the United States.
00:18:21These include making commercial diplomacy a core priority across our U.S. embassies,
00:18:26promoting private sector-identified market reforms with African governments,
00:18:31implementing high-quality infrastructure projects,
00:18:35including commercial diplomacy missions with private sector representatives,
00:18:38connecting export-ready U.S. companies with African opportunities,
00:18:43and reforming our own U.S. trade and financing tools to better compete with China's swift and risk
00:18:48tolerance financial model. Together, these efforts reflect an action-oriented vision to
00:18:54increase U.S. exports and joint ventures with African partners.
00:18:58The strategy's success relies on U.S. companies expanding into new markets and African partners creating enabling environments.
00:19:04This approach offers a clear alternative to China's model by favoring long-term quality, local capacity
00:19:11building, and mutual respect. The stakes are high, but we are steadfast in our commitment to champion
00:19:16transparency, openness, and fair competition. So again, thank you very much for your interest in this subject.
00:19:23I'd also like to, before I stop, to just simply say that as a former Hill staffer myself,
00:19:27I'd like to thank all of your staffers. I know how hard they work and how well they represent
00:19:32you and your constituents, especially over in the African continent. Thank you.
00:19:38Well, that's some damn fine kissing up to the staff.
00:19:43And given that mine provided Diet Dr. Pepper to me, I echo that sentiment for keeping me well caffeinated.
00:19:51As I discussed in my opening statement, the Chinese have exploited local political, economic, and
00:20:03sometimes even cultural conditions to undermine American national security interests. Sometimes
00:20:09they do it by securing bilateral and multilateral agreements that block American goals. Other times,
00:20:16they do it by creating instability. But they are actively doing it. And I want to hear from you
00:20:22how they do it. Could you walk us through, region by region, how China is exploiting these conditions to
00:20:29undermine U.S. interests? You bet, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for the opportunity to just jump right into that.
00:20:39As we run around the continent, most of the playbook that China uses occurs everywhere around the continent.
00:20:47But there are some regional trends. So as I roll around, everything is true everywhere in Africa.
00:20:53But there are some focuses that change a little bit. If I were to start in central and southern Africa,
00:21:00of course, it most heavily relies on the mineral space and the extractive space. These are the minerals that
00:21:07they've gone into fast and hard. And part of it, part of the playbook that I think you're asking for,
00:21:12was first just being there first and having an incredibly high risk tolerance. And by being able
00:21:19to go in without having to worry about meeting the needs of their shareholders or their board of
00:21:27directors and being able to focus on just capturing that market without worrying about turning a profit right
00:21:32away, that allowed them to keep and maintain the entire supply chain. Of course, we try and open a
00:21:40minerals processing plant in the U.S. There's a lot of permitting and issues in that. Same with Europe.
00:21:46But in China, where they don't care, they were able to toss that up right off the bat. And then once they had
00:21:52a sort of a dominant position there, they were able to use that to continue to maintain. One of the things we've seen
00:21:58recently is the global's need for lithium is almost infinite, vastly, 30, 40 times more than we currently
00:22:06have. So there's a lot of interest in engaging in new lithium operations. So as Western companies were
00:22:15looking to both look at mining, at processing, and at the whole supply chain, China immediately dumped a lot
00:22:22of lithium on the market crashing the price. And of course what you see there that is then as these
00:22:28Western companies were going to solicit financing and talking to banks and doing that kind of work,
00:22:33with the crashing lithium price suddenly the the projects were no longer viable. And that kind of
00:22:38manipulation is a big part of the of the threat that they have against the United States. When we look
00:22:43in East Africa, we see a lot in the regards of infrastructure kinds of investment. The traditional roads,
00:22:51rail bridges, that kind of thing, hydroelectric facilities. Oh, but let's not forget digital
00:22:57infrastructure. Being in first in that matters as well. A lot of these can be found as just debt
00:23:05vehicles. I've on multiple occasions dealt with governments that have asked my help in finding
00:23:09investors to privatize some of their because they can't maintain the debt. But then they find that the
00:23:16market value of this item is double or that is half what they still owe on the facility. So they're
00:23:24just trapped into that into that forever. That's hugely problematic. And in the digital side, of course,
00:23:30if you want to be part of the modern economy, you're going to need to have trusted safe networks. And so
00:23:36basically every country on the African continent has come to me to ask help in encouraging the big tech
00:23:45companies, Oracle, Microsoft, Google, etc., to come to their country. But they won't come if they can't
00:23:52trust the networks that are there. And so many of the countries are faced with the issue of if we want
00:23:58to have a modern digital economy, if we know where we need to be in the future, we actually need to rip out
00:24:04those systems and replace them because we simply can't operate in isolation with substandard technology
00:24:11in which all of our data is now subject to Chinese manipulation. And that's been hugely problematic
00:24:17across the continent. In West Africa, it's often kind of a mix of the two. But one thing I would add to
00:24:25that that's not frequently mentioned is in addition to this insatiable desire for minerals, it's all sorts of
00:24:32extractives, including timber, the deforestation, but especially fishing. When you look at the fishing
00:24:39grounds of especially of Western Africa, but really of all coastal Africa, that is the protein for the
00:24:45people. But when you see these Chinese trawlers coming in and utterly destroying the fishing grounds,
00:24:51and you can see them on over the shelf, unclassified satellite imagery, trawling back and forth,
00:24:58then suddenly doing a beeline 60 miles offshore, meet a buy boat, offload all the fish, come back
00:25:05to port and say, Oh, we didn't catch anything again today. And they don't catch anything any day,
00:25:09at least according to their official records. And meanwhile, the amount of food available for the
00:25:13Africans is much more expensive, in much less supply. And this is a direct and tremendous threat. And
00:25:20forgive me for going on a little bit more on that subject, but it's not one that normally gets
00:25:24mentioned. But it is indicative of the business model that the Chinese entertain on the continent.
00:25:31Now, of all those threats you described, what keeps you up at night? What worries you the most?
00:25:39I get a lot. I'm actually really excited to work in Africa, and there are a lot of really positive
00:25:43stories. So actually, I sleep pretty well in that regard. I'm all in on Africa's future,
00:25:49because I really believe in the place. And, you know, a lot of people talk about how, you know,
00:25:54in 2040, it's going to be this much or, but the fact is, Africa is hugely important right now. And I'm
00:26:01excited by that. But you asked the question. So let me let me go ahead and address that. Part of it is
00:26:08the kind of irreparable damage that a number that a lot of these operations can have. I'd say probably the
00:26:14the number one example was just recently when a Chinese tailings dam collapsed and they dumped
00:26:20something like 40 million gallons of sulfuric acid into the Kafui River, just potentially destroying
00:26:26the livelihoods of 6 million people. That was just the one example. But that kind of shoddy behavior
00:26:33and completely ignoring the rules-based order in which they ostensibly live, that kind of thing
00:26:40becoming systemic. Yeah, that would be what keeps me up. Thank you. Senator Booker.
00:26:47Just for knowing that our colleagues, you and I are going to be here for the duration,
00:26:49are being pulled in a lot of different directions. I just want to defer to my friend who I have learned
00:26:53so much for, more than I have learned in any of my classes at Stanford. You should work at the
00:26:58Hoover Institution, my friend. I appreciate your suggestion. I should work at the Hoover Institution.
00:27:04I'm not trying to get you out of the senator. Senator Cruz is eager to second that motion.
00:27:09I will say this, that Senator Booker, I think, has upstaged the ambassador on Ask Kissery.
00:27:18And it's a damn fine demonstration. Thank you for a deference to my diplomatic
00:27:21skills. I really appreciate that. You should teach a class there, not leave the Senate, of course,
00:27:26my esteemed colleague. Thank you, Senator. I may wait for your questions nonetheless. And I'll take
00:27:31the opportunity to ask a couple of questions at the outset, if I might. Thank you, Mr. Chairman,
00:27:35Mr. Ranking Member. 14 years ago, when I chaired this subcommittee with Johnny Isaacson, we held an
00:27:41identical hearing. It was on the same subject. We issued a report afterwards. I could not agree with
00:27:46you more that Africa is the continent of the 21st century. When we held that hearing 14 years ago,
00:27:52seven out of 10 of the fastest growing economies on earth were in Africa. And we said many of the same
00:27:58things. The framing is not that different. Critical minerals, enormous human resources,
00:28:05huge untapped potential, deep ties to Africa through the diaspora, and leader after leader,
00:28:11country after country that would rather have more U.S. engagement, U.S. investment, U.S. partnership,
00:28:17than China. Despite what Senator Isaacson and I and a number of others were able to do legislatively
00:28:23trade, 10, 12, 14 years ago, China has exploded. If we had a chart behind me of China-Africa trade
00:28:31and U.S. Africa trade, the lines have crossed and accelerated. As you pointed out in your testimony,
00:28:37China has found Africa and is all over the place. First, I think our embassy footprints across the
00:28:45continent are critical. Senator Durbin and I worked during the Obama administration to force the Department
00:28:51of Commerce to make sure foreign commercial service officers were deployed throughout the continent,
00:28:56not withdrawn. Because market opportunities require foreign commercial service presence,
00:29:03I ratify your view that we need to strengthen private sector partnerships and public-private
00:29:09partnerships in our work with Africa. Can I ask you first, what are the plans of the State Department
00:29:14in terms of retaining or expanding our current embassy and consular footprint in order to help
00:29:20American businesses in healthcare and technology and farming and infrastructure have a stronger
00:29:25footprint across the continent? Thank you, Senator. You actually raise a number of the issues
00:29:32that we discuss every day. And by the way, I would suggest that I wish 14 years ago we'd gotten very
00:29:38serious and made some of these changes then, because I think it would have been helpful, especially
00:29:43regarding the work that we actually need to do here in the United States regarding
00:29:47the actual processing of minerals so that we can be part of the overall supply chain. But as to your
00:29:54question, first, we have a pretty wide spread of embassies. Honestly, I believe- I've got about
00:30:02two and a half minutes, so I encourage you to say we're shutting down 10, we're not shutting down 10,
00:30:07we're retaining a strong- Not only do I not know of shutting anything down, I don't even know of any
00:30:12conversations about that. And I know there were some documents floating around, but those were not,
00:30:17those were not real. Let me just record my enthusiasm for a strong presence across the continent.
00:30:24One of the things we did work hard on over many years was taking a small, underfunded,
00:30:30under-resourced entity called OPIC, the Overseas Private Investment Corporation, and turn it into the
00:30:35Development Finance Corporation. Senator Corker, then Chair of Foreign Relations, and I co-authored the
00:30:40Build Act that created it. And I meet later today with President Trump's nominee, who I hope to
00:30:45support and work with. The DFC has critical potential to provide competitive financing. China's
00:30:54debt trap financing, which is often opaque, often accelerates corruption, typically does not serve
00:30:59the interests of the people or even the nations of Africa, has to have a side-by-side challenge from
00:31:05the U.S. and its partners. I've recently talked with leaders of the Development Finance Institutes,
00:31:11or institutions, forgive me, of Japan, South Korea, Australia, Norway, the UK. They are eager to partner
00:31:18with the DFC, but it still lacks a few key legal fixes, equity investment in particular. The DFC played a
00:31:27key role in the last administration in the Lobito Corridor Project that connects the Angolan Atlantic
00:31:33Coast all the way in to the Eastern DRC and potentially all the way into Rwanda. What's your sense of the
00:31:40importance of sustaining the Lobito Corridor Project? Because I understand it enjoys sustained support.
00:31:47Yep. And when I was last briefed on it, a key piece of it was the seemingly irrelevant humanitarian
00:31:55mission of demining. Angola has millions of unexploded mines, and it has prevented a lot of
00:32:02economic growth and opportunity. The Angolan government came forward when I last was there
00:32:06with, I think, a $60 million commitment of their own money to partner with us in demining. But I've
00:32:12lost the threat as all these different projects and contracts have been canceled. Does the administration
00:32:17support continuing with the Lobito Corridor infrastructure project and giving these countries
00:32:24of that region Zaire, excuse me, sorry, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Zambia, Rwanda and Angola
00:32:33access to our markets, not just Chinese markets? And are you continuing the demining partnership with
00:32:39Angola? Lobito is a tremendous success. We absolutely love it and we're absolutely committed to its future.
00:32:45Indeed, I want to copy the model and do that elsewhere because it's been so successful,
00:32:49and especially thanks to DFC and their immediate action in there as the catalyst which then allowed
00:32:56to bring in blended finance to make the project work. I worked on demining in Angola several years
00:33:04ago. I don't have the up-to-date information. I wasn't expecting that one, but I will find out
00:33:10if those programs continue. I know we have been supporting them, but I will find an answer to that
00:33:15and get that back to you, sir. I'd welcome that. Let me reference three other things briefly,
00:33:19and then I'll recede and perhaps stay for another round if I might. I've been working hard with other
00:33:25senators on things that try and address current issues. Senator Ricketts and I recently went to
00:33:30the Philippines to look at the status of the Luzon quarter, also a DFC-led project.
00:33:35Countering Chinese efforts to secure naval bases or military bases around the world,
00:33:41I think is a key part of our competition with China. Their first overseas naval base is in Djibouti.
00:33:47Their first overseas major military base arguably is in Djibouti.
00:33:51There have been repeated reports they are attempting to secure a base in Gabon,
00:33:56and Senator Ricketts and I have introduced the COUNTER Act, which is to require a strategy
00:34:02specifically focusing on sustaining broad-spectrum positive relationships with countries
00:34:08where we are at risk of having them agree to host a Chinese military facility.
00:34:12Do you think that's necessary? Do you think it's wise? What's your understanding of the current
00:34:16status of this issue? I think it's absolutely necessary to compete against that notion.
00:34:23We want to have deep, complex, and positive relationships with all countries in Africa,
00:34:29but in particular we make it clear to those countries that might be flirting with that kind
00:34:33of a relationship with China, that they would be jeopardizing the ability to have that kind of
00:34:39relationship with us. Last thing I'll reference is Senator Young and I have the Finding Ore Act,
00:34:47which is, as you probably well know, recognizes the reality that although there are abundant critical
00:34:53minerals across the continent, most of them are not adequately characterized. And so the unique
00:34:59American resource of the U.S. Geological Survey under this bill, if it became law, would be offered to
00:35:06countries as long as U.S. or U.S. partner companies got the right of first refusal. It would be a wise way
00:35:13to use an existing U.S. capability and resource to help countries around the world. Earlier today,
00:35:19a bipartisan group of senators met with the Ukrainians. The Ukrainians have recently inked a critical minerals
00:35:24deal with the Trump administration, but most of the maps of where their minerals are
00:35:29date back to the Soviet era. We have the capacity to help characterize where they are
00:35:34and to make sure that our companies and our partner and allied countries benefit as a result.
00:35:39Do you think that's a worthwhile effort? Thank you very much for stressing it. Absolutely right.
00:35:46The appetite amongst professionals to engage with the U.S. Geological Survey is near infinite. They
00:35:52are the best respected entity of its type in the world. And their work across the African continent
00:35:58is well respected. And I get regular requests for engagement with them. I would look favorably
00:36:06and with great expectation to have greater attention from the U.S. Geological Survey on the African continent.
00:36:13I'd love to work with you on that and on both of these pieces of legislation. And I apologize because
00:36:18I have overstayed my welcome quite a bit. I have a few more questions if and when we have a second round.
00:36:23Thank you. Thank you, Senator Coons. And I'm going to ask my staff to follow up with yours to take a look
00:36:29at that bill you referenced because that sounds like a very interesting policy idea. Senator Booker.
00:36:34Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I just want to go back to the libido corridor, if we can,
00:36:40because I agree with what you're saying. But my concerns are about this all-in policy in the libido
00:36:49corridor, the enthusiasm. But we have seen right now $550 million in DFC funds that haven't been
00:36:56distributed yet. And that's concerning to me, understanding sort of the urgencies and how a
00:37:02little bit of U.S. investment goes a long way and would seem to reflect that belief that you are
00:37:09saying that we agree with, which is this all-in attitude. Again, the alternative will be China
00:37:15stepping in, will be China stepping up. And so I don't know why the U.S. Geological Survey in Angola
00:37:23on critical minerals was stopped as well. And I'm hoping you can shed some light on that.
00:37:29Oh, thank you. That gives me a chance to continue on.
00:37:32First of all, I understand the engagement of the U.S. Geological Survey is just simply a question of
00:37:39funding. And of course, they don't work for me, so I can't arrange that. But I certainly strongly
00:37:44advocate their continued participation. Regarding libido and the potential on that, of course, DFC was
00:37:52the tremendous catalyst. As it happens, I'm going to be in Lawanda in about two weeks because the
00:37:57corporate council in Africa is doing their U.S.-Africa business summit there, where I will be engaging
00:38:02with the president and the foreign minister, and especially their minister of mines, to discuss
00:38:08a number of these issues. In fact, the whole point of my going is a commercial advocacy trip,
00:38:15and there's a number of U.S. companies who have ongoing issues. The fact is, throughout the African
00:38:21continent, trade can be complicated. It can be difficult. It's not an easy business environment.
00:38:28If it was, anybody could do it. And so it requires a lot of advocacy, and that's what we're committed
00:38:33to doing. So in regard to getting the proper disbursements, not just for libido, but also for
00:38:39solar power and other forms of transportation that are existing, that are projects in Angola right now,
00:38:47we're going to engage on those. And that's particularly why I will be there.
00:38:51Thank you very much. It's really critical that we continue those linkages. And I know your
00:38:56expertise and the sort of esteem with which you're held, for you to be making the call for
00:39:01that disbursement, I think it would be really helpful. I know something dear to my colleagues
00:39:09is AGOA. And I just think that the renewal of AGOA is vital. Would you agree?
00:39:18Thank you. I actually spent a good bit of time today discussing that. I was hoping to get
00:39:23an administration position on AGOA to bring to this hearing. There are still some discussions going on,
00:39:29but there's no question that the last 25 years, we have seen some spectacular successes, but also some
00:39:34some spectacular needs for reform. So we hope to have an administration position on AGOA for you.
00:39:41I'm hoping within hours, possibly within days. But so I can't answer that right this second.
00:39:47But another reflection of who you are, and your, I think, frankly, very informed opinion is the fact
00:39:54that you went and talked to the administration, pushing to get us knowing this would be discussed.
00:39:57That encourages me. Are you thinking a little bit, I'm sure you are thinking more nuanced about
00:40:05how AGOA could be a really great piece, like linking AGOA with building out the libido corridor,
00:40:10those could be related as a means to benefit the African communities that are really along the corridor
00:40:17and increasing opportunities for US businesses.
00:40:19Is this like another possible way that we can increase the that that momentum within the corridor
00:40:27and provide alternatives to the Chinese investment model?
00:40:31Yeah, thank you, Senator. I tend to use every tool that we have available to us, but that is certainly
00:40:37one of them. I think one thing we has become clear that when we established AGOA 25 years ago,
00:40:45the world was a very different place. When I was talking about how excited I am about the
00:40:49opportunities in Africa right now, they're different than they were 25 years ago. And thus, for me,
00:40:55the need to have a real conversation about what a modern AGOA should look like is important. And it
00:41:02should be linked to the types of things that facilitate projects like libido and other truly open society
00:41:09types of investment. And so that's something that we're absolutely committed to doing.
00:41:14Great. And I really feel bad for a lot of the young people that have packed this hearing room
00:41:18I have no idea of all these letters that we're throwing out there. But so maybe you can help
00:41:24with MCC and explaining it, but telling me, is this something else? Because it's one of the best tools
00:41:30we have in competing. I'm very concerned about the modest funds that we invest. We know they have an outsized return.
00:41:39But and they've always seemed to garner bipartisan support. But the MCC, its impact that I've witnessed
00:41:47myself in some of my visits. We know last year Congress on a bipartisan basis expanded the number
00:41:54of countries MCC could work in because we understood of its vital. Rich, who I want to quote,
00:42:00has said very strongly, we want to work with you speaking to Secretary Rubio to ensure that we have
00:42:08the tools to counter Chinese influence through the Development Finance Corporation and the MCC. But again,
00:42:14I just see MCC being targeted by Doge and others, which really undermines what we're doing. There's at least
00:42:25seven MCC compacts with African countries that are currently paused. While paused, the US and our
00:42:31African government partners are incurring costs because of project delays, which is extraordinary.
00:42:36Time is money. These compacts include road improvements, agriculture improvements, energy
00:42:42security, all that makes for a better platform for investment, for expanded economic opportunity for
00:42:51our African partners and for the United States. If the US pulls out of these MCC compacts, how can
00:42:56African governments and businesses feel secure to enter into commercial diplomacy deals with the
00:43:00United States when the government doesn't follow through on its own commitments, when Congress,
00:43:05who's allocated money in a bipartisan way, has that money impounded by the administration? It seems not
00:43:11only to undermine what I would think is important rules of law of this government, but it burns through
00:43:17a lot of trust, increasing project costs, not making any kind of rational business sense whatsoever.
00:43:28Okay, thank you. I do stick my nose in where it doesn't belong on many an occasion and across the
00:43:34investment and economic tools the US government has. I don't have oversight on the MCC, but I can say
00:43:42that internally we've had discussions during this review of all assistance programming and have advocated for
00:43:51the types of programs, like you said, where we need to continue the funding just so that the project
00:43:58wasn't at any natural stopping point. We've been quite successful on that so far, but the overall
00:44:04responsibility for the future of the MCC is not something that's in my purview, and I would tell you
00:44:10if I knew, I just don't know where that's going, but I can tell you that I visited an MCC project in
00:44:15Abidjan about two weeks ago when I was there for the Africa CEO Forum, and it is a dramatic
00:44:26sort of investment, a dramatic symbol of America there, and it is one of the first things that the
00:44:32Ivarian government mentioned to me upon my arrival and upon my meetings with them,
00:44:39and I can tell you that the interest of the host governments has been dramatic in this regard.
00:44:45I have actually several pending calls that I have to make after I leave here to talk to countries about
00:44:49their potential future of the MCC. I've explained to them that I'm not actually the guy who is
00:44:55responsible for that, but I'm still interested in our relationships with those countries, and that's
00:45:00why I'll be making those calls. But for that regard, I'm waiting for those who are at MCC, and the end of that
00:45:08of that assistance review. Thank you. Senator Van Hollen. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for
00:45:16your service and for your testimony here today. And I want to thank the chairman and ranking member for
00:45:24holding this hearing on this topic. So I was listening to your testimony, and I think you made a number of
00:45:32important observations, and I'm not sure the plan of action that you laid out, the six points, addresses the
00:45:39problem completely. You pointed out in your testimony that China can act swiftly and they're risk tolerant.
00:45:47You also pointed out rightly that they don't have to worry about meeting their stockholders'
00:45:54requirements, right? I mean, these are fundamental differences between the way China approaches
00:46:00Africa and the United States does, right?
00:46:04And so it seems to me, if we're going to be able to compete,
00:46:08we have to use these tools. Senator Coons was very involved in the DFC effort. Senator Booker just
00:46:17raised concerns that I share about the plans, as I understand, to get rid of the MCC. But I guess the
00:46:24point is you can't beat the China offer, which often comes in as a debt trap, but it comes in appearing
00:46:35to be less costly without something better, right? I mean, you can't beat nothing. You can't beat
00:46:42something with nothing. And that is why these tools are so important. So maybe you could lay out a little
00:46:47bit exactly in your six points, how you envision beefing up those tools. And I do want to close by
00:46:53saying this is not an either-or proposition, in my view, like the development assistance. My view,
00:46:59and I echo Senator Booker's concerns expressed, you know, we can pursue active private commercial
00:47:06engagements, which we should. And frankly, every administration, Republican or Democrat,
00:47:10for the last 15 years have said that that's their goal and to do it on an equal basis. But you don't
00:47:18have to cut, you know, humanitarian assistance to Sudan in order to, at the same time, pursue
00:47:25commercial interests. And I think that that's been devastating, frankly, to our own interests,
00:47:32as well as the interests of people in Africa. But maybe you could just take up this issue about
00:47:36how we can deal with a competitor that doesn't have to demonstrate an immediate return to their
00:47:47shareholders. Because that's the fundamental question here. You talk about getting more,
00:47:51you know, commercial attaches and others, and I'm all for that. But at the end of the day,
00:47:57an American company is not going to go in there unless they think they're going to be able to deliver
00:48:01for their shareholders. And it's hard to see how they can without some support with using these
00:48:07other tools. So could you elaborate on that? Thank you very much, Senator.
00:48:13Probably in reverse order. You mentioned Sudan last night. We spend an extraordinary amount of time
00:48:18trying to resolve the worst humanitarian crisis in the world. I spent a good bit of time on that
00:48:23yesterday. We're looking to have a fairly high level meeting on that in the coming weeks. We have not
00:48:28stopped doing those things because we're making commercial diplomacy a priority. And at the risk
00:48:35of sounding like a one-note orchestra, the reason why we've been making such a big deal about the
00:48:39commercial diplomacy is because that's the thing we're doing that's dramatically different from before.
00:48:45That's the thing that's being promoted and advanced in our strategy that is different. And that's why
00:48:52we're doing that. Of the two, probably two items of the six directly address your question. The one is
00:49:02about the reform of our tools. I'm a huge fan of DFC and I'm thrilled that the nominee is here in the
00:49:09building and hope will be confirmed fairly soon. But even DFC understands that the way it was built,
00:49:17the way it was designed, and the way it needs to go forward may be different. Being faster, more nimble,
00:49:23instead of just being the only investor, about being the leader of a blended finance. These types of reforms
00:49:31will make it a better entity. But it's an entity on which, frankly, our entire strategy relies. We need
00:49:38that kind of finance, that kind of aggression, and that kind of optimism. Some of it is also,
00:49:45if you look at the Ex-Im Bank, I believe they have a 2% failure cap and they don't reach it. I think
00:49:52they're at about 1.2%. Personally, I would like to double that cap to four and ensure that they reach
00:49:59it. I want them being aggressive. I want them, frankly, having some loans that don't work. It's not just a
00:50:06matter of the number of successful projects that you have, because if that's all you're focused on,
00:50:12then you're behaving just like a normal bank. And we have plenty of normal banks. We need these
00:50:16investment arms to do the things to lead so that the private sector can then engage afterwards, to
00:50:23attract. And that's where we see that kind of... You know, you're preaching to the choir on the Ex-Im
00:50:27Bank issue and some of these other issues. I will just say in closing, since you elaborated on Sudan,
00:50:33you know, as I said, we can pursue commercial engagement and humanitarian assistance. I think
00:50:41you're aware of the fact that the dramatic cuts to AID did result in people dying in Sudan unnecessarily,
00:50:48when food couldn't get to them. I would also just point out with respect to the... You mentioned your
00:50:53efforts with respect to the UAE and the conflict there. The UAE, as you well know, is continuing to
00:51:02support the RSF, Rapid Support Forces, militarily, unless you have an update on that that suggests
00:51:09otherwise. And yet, during President Trump's recent trip to the UAE, it's my understanding he never
00:51:16even raised that issue. Is that your understanding? Thank you for that. I would suggest we have support
00:51:23from the highest levels to engage all of the interested parties in that region with finding a way to move off
00:51:30of entrenched positions towards a productive way forward. It is the worst humanitarian situation in
00:51:39the world. I would suggest, however, that those feeding programs, I've spent a lot of like round
00:51:45the clock all night long kinds of issues going through thousands of line items of support issues,
00:51:52that we have maintained those programs. And I would say that people are surviving in Sudan because of the
00:51:59support that the United States has provided there. I'd be happy... I don't want to prolong this,
00:52:03but I'd be happy to send you all the articles about the cost as a result of the withdrawal of U.S.
00:52:11assistance to Sudan at some point. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. Ambassador, I want to get back
00:52:17to the topic of critical minerals. In your opening statement, you described the really dominant position
00:52:26China has with critical minerals in Africa. And unfortunately, America lost significant ground
00:52:34in the Biden administration. And you focused on the supply chain and President Biden canceled mineral
00:52:41leases for the Twin Metals mined in Minnesota. And the administration also deliberately rejected Alaska's
00:52:50Ambler Road project. And blocking domestic critical minerals mining only reinforces our overseas
00:52:58critical mineral supply chain reliance. And that's a market, unfortunately, that China dominates.
00:53:06Less than one percent of the global rare earth element refining capacity exists in the United States.
00:53:12Most U.S. mined or collected rare earth element material is sent to China for separation and processing.
00:53:21Trump's executive order calling for, quote, immediate measures to increase American mineral production
00:53:28has put us back on the right course. We need your leadership to marshal resources to cultivate
00:53:35partnerships in the critical mineral sector in Africa. And for the United States to be an alternative to
00:53:41China and Africa. We need to create real alternatives in Africa. We need to translate the talk and policy
00:53:48into tangible action and impact. Could you please describe the efforts underway within the department
00:53:55to work with our international partners across Africa and U.S. companies to build a more resilient,
00:54:02transparent and diversified supply chain of critical minerals from Africa to the United States?
00:54:08Thank you very much for raising that. I spend more time working with the American private sector than I do
00:54:14with with government officials because they're the ones who are going to be key to to solving this issue.
00:54:20It would be easy and cheap and ultimately disastrous to continue to rely on China for these sorts of things.
00:54:28We do have to have our own domestic capacity. I'm not the one who does domestic work, but there are people
00:54:34across this government that do and we engage on a regular basis when it comes to making sure our allies
00:54:40and partners are involved as well. I spent a good bit of time this morning with the European Union's
00:54:45Peace and Security Committee because they're concerned about these issues as well. And they also have a challenge
00:54:51that they need to invest in minerals processing and usage. Quite simply, it's my job to get the throughput
00:55:02for that processing. As we have operations in Houston for developing critical minerals processing,
00:55:12we have new operations also coming up the Mississippi Valley, particularly in Arkansas, I believe.
00:55:17It's my job to get the throughput for that. And that's where I'm engaging with the mining companies
00:55:22and with the transportation companies and the power companies to make sure that that's doable.
00:55:26China has also been leveraging its power to advance its diplomatic goals and undermine American diplomacy
00:55:37and it uses its relationship to undermine, in particular, the diplomatic status of Taiwan.
00:55:44In April, Somalia banned Taiwanese passport holders from entering the country
00:55:49in response to deepening ties between Somaliland and Taiwan. This action by Somalia prevented Taiwan's
00:55:58foreign minister from undertaking a planned visit to Somaliland. As if the Chinese Communist Party's
00:56:06political interference wasn't enough, there are reports that the support China provides to the
00:56:12Somali government makes its way to anti-Somaliland groups opposing Somaliland.
00:56:19Let me be clear. China is leveraging Somalia against the pro-U.S., pro-Israel, pro-West Somaliland
00:56:27because of Somaliland's relationship with Taiwan. How should the United States approach this challenge
00:56:33and similar efforts by China to undermine Taiwan's diplomatic status in Africa and the Horn specifically?
00:56:42Thank you very much. The question of Taiwan across Africa is hugely important. Taiwan is an extremely
00:56:51productive, positive and responsible member of the international community. And so our engagements
00:56:56with them and cooperative engagements with them across the continent matter. And in the countries where
00:57:03they're finding problematic issues where we believe at the behest of China, they're receiving harassment from
00:57:11those governments. For us, it's critical to make clear to those governments that when they harass Taiwan
00:57:19like that, they're also making it clear their own lack of commitment to a positive kind of engagement with
00:57:26an open society. And for that reason, they would be putting in jeopardy or calling into question their
00:57:33relationship with us. And so those are the kinds of conversations we need to we need to keep having. We
00:57:40need to make sure it are understood. It's best to be able to stave these off before they become public. But
00:57:48diplomacy is often operates in an imperfect information environment. But making sure that people understand
00:57:55afterward that this is going to affect the relationship with us. And that's why we were happy
00:58:00that the Somalia, the government of Somalia actually rescinded that order and started respecting the
00:58:07Taiwanese passports again. Tell us a bit about how the United States should be assisting and strengthening
00:58:14partners like Somaliland to counter China. We engage with partners like that. The ones who are looking to
00:58:24go in a positive direction, who have that positive trajectory, we'll meet them where they are and find
00:58:29ways to engage. And we do have extensive engagement with Somaliland. We do currently respect the
00:58:35territorial integrity of Somalia. And the decision of its construction is a question for Somalians,
00:58:46including Somalilanders. But for us, it's vastly more important that all of these different groups and
00:58:52these different states recognize the greater threat of ISIS and Al-Shabaab, which are
00:58:59causing just dramatic attacks and mayhem in their country, that that's the real enemy. And that
00:59:07they need to work together against that, rather than spending their efforts with political infighting
00:59:15amongst themselves. Okay, so one more question. I'm deeply concerned about our posture in Africa
00:59:21regarding space development. This is an area where the United States must lead. We already have a NASA
00:59:27presence in South Africa, Angola, Rwanda, and Nigeria are all signatories to the Artemis Accords.
00:59:34Several other countries, including Kenya, are also emerging as leaders in developing space capabilities.
00:59:40Africa's space industry is ripe for U.S. commercial diplomacy. The department should be working hand
00:59:47in hand with the private sector to help our partners in Africa develop their own space capabilities.
00:59:51Last month, I met with 11 members of Botswana's National Assembly. And I have since learned in March,
00:59:59Botswana launched its first satellite into space in partnership with SpaceX. This is the type of
01:00:05commercial partnerships we need to see more of. What are your thoughts on commercial space diplomacy,
01:00:11and how can we push back on China through building space partnerships in Africa?
01:00:15Thank you for that. Space is an exciting new opportunity for the continent for everyone in
01:00:23the world. The African Union just established its African Space Agency with a founding engagement in
01:00:30Cairo. We were there in force because this is where we can accomplish a lot of interesting things.
01:00:37So we hit on that. When Botswana was launching its satellite with SpaceX, the president was flying
01:00:45to California for that. So we frankly made sure by inviting him to stop into Washington because we
01:00:52specifically wanted to recognize what it means to have a forward-looking policy. I don't think I'm
01:01:00breaching any confidence when I say that Secretary Rubio described it as the single best meeting he'd ever
01:01:04had. It was all positive. But this is what happens when you work with a government that really wants to do
01:01:10things the right way. And that's why even though we still have to advocate for American companies in
01:01:17Botswana, we talk to them about ongoing practices and with their neighbors, the simple fact is they're
01:01:23a good partner. We engage with them extensively and we end up having tremendous success with it. And they're an
01:01:29example for the rest of the for the rest of the region. Great. You may have to tell the secretary
01:01:34that he hurt our feelings, that the meeting was better than when he meets with us. That really is
01:01:39hurtful. Senator Booker. I again will defer to the more senior senator from Delaware. I again will
01:01:45express embarrassment and yet take advantage of the opportunity of your kindness. I'll just ask one,
01:01:51one, well two more questions if I might. Botswana is a great example of a country that is relatively stable,
01:01:58peaceful, has developed its vast mineral resources in a positive way for its people and for its
01:02:04independence. President Boko is a great example of someone where over the 25 years of PEPFAR as
01:02:11a program, Botswana, which had one of the very highest HIV AIDS burdens when we began, transitioned to
01:02:18country ownership and partnership. My most recent visit there with Senator Graham, we were impressed
01:02:23by how much progress they've made. Over 25 years, PEPFAR has saved 25 million lives. I respect and
01:02:32understand why the administration is prioritizing commercial diplomacy, something I also have long
01:02:37championed. It's the way that we will move forward in this century with the vast majority of African
01:02:42countries. But we cannot neglect some of the foundational public health needs that still
01:02:48are central to our relations with dozens of countries. The Secretary recently testified that 85% of PEPFAR
01:02:57funding was still being delivered and only 15% had been canceled due to corruption. One of the things I
01:03:04disagreed with publicly about someone who's no longer with the department was his characterization that
01:03:10the termination of a contract for male circumcision was because it was either DEI or corrupt, when in
01:03:19fact, public health documents show it's the most effective way to reduce a transmission. Can you give
01:03:25us any sense? What is the actual plan and path forward for PEPFAR? The administration has just submitted a
01:03:33rescission that would claw back significant amounts of funding that was authorized and appropriated by
01:03:39Congress for PEPFAR. What do you view as the path forward and how can we get a specific update on
01:03:47what's actually the intention of the administration with regards to PEPFAR? Thank you for raising an
01:03:54incredibly important issue. As I had mentioned before, the reason why I had spent so much time talking
01:03:59about commercial diplomacy is because that was the fundamental change, the difference in what we were
01:04:04doing. But that doesn't mean the critical things we were doing in other spheres don't also matter. As
01:04:10somebody who spent most of his time in Africa and almost every one of the countries in which I've
01:04:14served are PEPFAR countries, I have a deep and abiding love and respect for the program. As Secretary Rubio
01:04:23had said, 85% of that is continuing. The shifting with the change in how our government is structured
01:04:31has been something we're focused on right now. And so the Global Health Security Bureau is absorbing
01:04:38the tasks that USAID used to do in regard to PEPFAR. And working out our staffing and especially our
01:04:47overseas posture is all predicated on making sure this continues to happen. I am afraid that I don't have
01:04:55any information on a response to the rescission because that would be our F Bureau and the Global
01:05:00Health Security Bureau. But I will absolutely find out about that and get back to you, sir.
01:05:05If you could convey an intense interest and enthusiasm for clarity on that, I think
01:05:11governing by rescission by full year CR reconciliation and rescission renders the appropriations role of
01:05:18Congress irrelevant and is a very dangerous precedent to be setting. My hope is that instead
01:05:24the administration will accept the repeated offers of members of both parties to work together to
01:05:30reform, sustain and improve foreign assistance. Because whether it's the Millennium Challenge
01:05:36Corporation or it's PEPFAR previously delivered exclusively through USAID and CDC, there are long-standing
01:05:45bilateral relationships with dozens of countries on the continent where I'm getting the calls I'm sure
01:05:50you're getting confusion, alarm and question about what is our future together. Last, Senator Graham and I
01:05:59have worked hard to introduce and pass legislation that creates public-private foundations to advance
01:06:06food security and to advance conservation. Examples from Africa with a principal reason, but it's not
01:06:12exclusive to Africa. The Conservation Foundation is law and is funded. The Food Security Foundation,
01:06:18Senator Graham's continuing to work to advance and it'll soon be on a market for this committee.
01:06:24Are you familiar with these at all? Do you see the idea of doubling public money with private
01:06:31partnership money, whether foundation or corporate, as being a positive model for moving forward together?
01:06:36Senator Graham. Thank you. While I know of these programs, I do know the idea of public-private
01:06:44partnerships has proven effective throughout. Wherever it's possible to involve the private sector,
01:06:51it generally improves the opportunities. It's one of the reasons why I'm such a supporter of the blended
01:06:57finance with DFC. It's bringing that in which allows that dynamism, that vibrancy that the private sector can
01:07:04bring to that. So I think that's an appropriate way to address both of those concerns. And I would
01:07:09also say that when it comes to feeding programs, anything that engages the American farmer is
01:07:14probably going to be a good investment. Thank you, Mr. Vitrell, and thank you again,
01:07:18Senator Booker, for your decency, your compassion, and your forbearance, and to the chairman for tolerating
01:07:23my many questions. Thank you. Senator Booker. Thank you very much. A vote's been called, so I'm going to try to
01:07:29do a speed round. If you can get me, I'll try to get my questions shorter, if you get your responses
01:07:35shorter. So South Africa produces 75% of the world's platinum. So many critical minerals flow through it.
01:07:43I'm worried about our policy towards South Africa limiting our critical mineral acquisition. They've
01:07:49been left out of some now key consortium. Could you just comment on that really quickly and cogently?
01:07:55Actually, the South Africans' main points when they came to visit just a few weeks ago were that
01:08:01this is the area in which we can find great opportunities for cooperation. Again, we have
01:08:07something like 600 American companies active in South Africa. That kind of engagement is possible,
01:08:13so I would be hugely supportive of that. I'm concerned about the president's executive order
01:08:19undermining that effort, but I do know, having spent a lot of time on these issues,
01:08:24the complications of the South Africans' governmental posture, but also the opportunities.
01:08:29It's important diplomacy, but I'm going to continue really quickly.
01:08:35I agree that we need to do a better job on commercial diplomacy. You're such the right champion for that,
01:08:40but to say that that has not been previously a focus is concerning me because one of the things,
01:08:47the legacy things out there is Prosperity Africa, which since 2019, as you know,
01:08:52has facilitated over a thousand deals across 49 African countries with an estimated value of $65
01:08:58billion. What's the status of one of those legacy good works, Prosper Africa?
01:09:04My understanding is the real future for that is coming through in legislation from the Hill, and
01:09:10I would be excited to welcome Prosper Africa into the Africa Bureau, which is something I've been
01:09:16trying to, I will be mimicking if I cannot absorb because I believe in the task. And I should say
01:09:22that when I was saying that we, it wasn't the focus before, it's we had specific people that were focused
01:09:28on it before. We had foreign commercial service officers where they are present doing amazing work,
01:09:33but we also need to be active where they're not present. And so the idea that ambassadors need to lead
01:09:39this and that entire country teams need to work on the commercial diplomacy. That's where this approach
01:09:45is going. But I'm a big fan of what Prosper Africa did. And one way or another, that task is coming to
01:09:53the coming to the African next issue. So when I was mayor of the city of Newark, it was a city that was
01:09:57known for legendary corruption. This is not a brag, but I'm the first mayor since the early sixties. It
01:10:04wasn't indicted of something. Um, uh, and when we got there, we needed, I wanted to bring in new ethics laws,
01:10:10new transparency, really clean it up to let people know that we were doing things differently and benefited
01:10:17from a lot of ethics groups, helping me come in to pass legislation, executive orders on myself, really
01:10:23making it. And that worked. We had companies come to us, the city said, I swore I would never come back, but
01:10:29seeing what you're doing on the governance reforms makes me know that I can do business here. And after
01:10:3560 years, almost the same period of which we saw monumental corruption, suddenly our economy was
01:10:40booming the biggest it had in decades and the population started growing again. And so that's
01:10:46why I want to make sure that we at least can, can share some agreement here that it's not just our
01:10:52business relationships, the resources we were investing in the support of governance,
01:10:58civil society, helping with democratization is so vital. And so I'm wondering what you're thinking
01:11:06about those investments, many of which we're, we're turning our back on. They're helping to create
01:11:11an environment that's critical for our businesses to be able to operate. Yeah. The, thank you. The,
01:11:19the overall business environment is exactly what we're trying to do. Uh, what we're trying to work with,
01:11:24especially using the local business communities, the American chambers of commerce in particular
01:11:29about making sure. I agree with you, but I'm making what the PRC is doing. You know this,
01:11:34with the Confucius, the 61 Confucius, they're investing in ways that we're not. In other words,
01:11:40isn't this an area that yes, businesses, chambers of commerce can do a lot of good, but the extraordinary
01:11:47investments we were making on governance, on civil society sectors that were helping the reforms
01:11:53happen. Isn't that a, aren't those critical investments as well beyond what the business
01:11:57community is doing? I would argue that the business community is very good at making those kinds of
01:12:01investments and getting their collective behavior instead of their individual behaviors is how we
01:12:07can address that because every government asks me to help encourage greater investment in their country.
01:12:13And I always say the way to get greater investment is to take care of the ones you have now.
01:12:18And that means addressing that business climate. And you see that success works. You see the,
01:12:22the more success you're telling me businesses, because I was in numerous African countries where we were
01:12:28investing in how to clean up corruption from your elections, investing in creating more transparency.
01:12:33Let me give you another great example. It's just the media landscape encountering propaganda,
01:12:39the voice of America. There's so many of these things that are going to create an environment where
01:12:44democracy is more secure, where there's anti-corruption efforts, because from, I can go through Nigeria,
01:12:50Ghana, these areas that they're battling sort of corruption within their government. Just the businesses
01:12:55advising them as opposed to putting people there that could help to create more transparency and
01:12:59more accountability. Are you saying those investments are not needed? I'm saying that what the embassies
01:13:05and what the private sector do, including with the training of journalism through the embassies,
01:13:10we do a lot of that. I'm not saying that we're not going to do those other types of programs.
01:13:15That's just what the overall foreign assistance review is looking at. Well, I would say mindful of time and
01:13:21and the conclusion is that you and I have so much agreement, and I'm actually grateful,
01:13:25not only that you're here, but that you're doing so much of the work. But we are competing with a
01:13:30country, and this is the core of the hearing, that is not just investing in their business
01:13:37relationships, where they have literally say up front, we don't care how you run your government,
01:13:41we don't care about the corruption, we don't care about any of that stuff, which often blocks.
01:13:46When I was in West Africa, I was hearing from major American corporations that were not investing
01:13:52because of the corruption that they were encountering in some West African countries.
01:13:56It just seems to me that we need to be doing, as you use your words, an all-in strategy, not just from
01:14:02the extraordinary power of American business, American investments, but doing some of these
01:14:08resources that we've been doing that pay double and triple bottom line returns by creating,
01:14:15as I saw here in America, an environment that's more trusted, more secure. And by not doing these
01:14:21things, from humanitarian aid all the way to dealing with countering China's propaganda,
01:14:28which I had government leaders in numerous countries saying, please tell your story, talk about
01:14:32democracy, that failures to invest in those areas actually undermines our ability to have the kind
01:14:38of economic ties that I know you so well champion.
01:14:44Thank you, Senator Booker, and thank you, Ambassador, for your testimony. We appreciate
01:14:49the time you have spent with us for the information of members. The record will remain open until the
01:14:55close of business tomorrow, June 5th. We ask the witness to respond as promptly as possible to any
01:15:01questions that come, and your responses will also be made part of the record. And with the thanks of the
01:15:06committee, this hearing is adjourned.