UN General Assembly President Annalena Baerbock spoke with DW's Ines Pohl about the challenges the United Nations is facing amid global conflicts, political polarisation and budget cuts to humanitarian causes.
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00:00Annalena Baerbock, you just got elected as the president of the United Nations General Assembly,
00:04only the fifth woman holding this position. Congratulations.
00:08Thank you very much.
00:09You only have one year in office. What would you like to be the
00:13kind of known accomplishments of your tenure after this year?
00:18That together we have made the United Nations fit for the future and fit for purpose, meaning
00:26for what the UN was founded for and this is ensuring peace and security, development and
00:33human rights. And we are in shaky times and the international order, the UN system is under heavy
00:40political pressure, financially, politically, so kind of the normal given to make this organization
00:49really fit for the challenges is a bit more challenging than maybe in other decades.
00:56What would be, maybe you can talk a little bit about that, like the first three main
01:01topics you're going to focus on and how?
01:03Well, two topics are already set kind of by the calendar because the 80th session, this is how
01:10we call it from September to September, is also the anniversary year because 80 years ago the
01:15United Nations was founded. So one big, actually nice thing is to make in this year very clear
01:25why we need this international system, why we need the United Nations, especially in those times.
01:31However, obviously the times are very challenging, so it's not the mood for a big anniversary party,
01:37but I believe it's really the moment to say where we reflect ourselves as an organization,
01:42where can we become better, more efficient and more precise that the work of the yen really delivers
01:50to the people on the ground. And this is the second big task, the so-called UNAT process.
01:56Secretary-General Guterres has started this, so the modernization of this organization in this upcoming year.
02:06Secretary-General Guterres has started this, so we have to ask ourselves very deep questions.
02:12How much sense does it make to have so many different institutions, like for example,
02:17we have for the big issue of migration, UNHCR, Organization for Refugees, IOM, Organization for Migration,
02:25then UNICEF, for example, the big organization for children, is obviously also dealing a lot
02:30with children who have to migrate or to flee and to see how we can have these structures more efficient
02:42to be also more precise in a work. And this counts for all the topics on climate, on development,
02:49is this second big task, not only by myself, but obviously of the whole organization.
02:56And the third point is that in this session also the next Secretary-General has to be,
03:03maybe not elected, but the whole process has to be prepared that at the end of the term
03:07the election can take place. And you mentioned that I'm only the fifth woman in 80 years and as
03:15President for the General Assembly, but for Secretary-General there has never been a woman in this
03:21organization. So obviously this is also a task with very interesting decisions to be made.
03:28So do I understand you're right, you're going to fight for a woman in this position?
03:32Well, I'm the convener of the will of the General Assembly, so for all 193 countries.
03:41And I've heard a strong call from many delegations here in New York saying now it's time for a woman,
03:47but it's not up to me or it's not up to a single country. But the procedures are that in the end
03:53the General Assembly elects the upcoming Secretary-General by recommendation from the Security Council,
04:00so from the P5 members. And the very important decisions being taken is how many candidates will
04:09be there. So you actually have a choice in the General Assembly. This is a proposal by many member states
04:14that there should be more candidates. But this is really work in progress. And this is also work
04:20which is going on already right now. And I will take over this task for my predecessor, the current
04:27President. And this is why I also said being the President of the General Assembly is a team sport,
04:33because it's only one year. So you jump in and then you're already leaving. So you can only do that
04:39together with your predecessor, with all the member states, with the Secretary General,
04:44with the Security Council. And this is what I really like about the job, that it's up to the team
04:50spirit everybody shows. You just said, Mrs. President, is this a way to address you now?
04:58Well, some say here Madam President. In German we could use the female form in English.
05:05Okay, so I like that. Madam President, you just said you want to become a unifier. I mean,
05:11the United Nations, the General Assembly has lost a lot of trust, especially in the global south. How are you
05:18going to repair that? Again, this is not a topic only for one person. But the role of the President is
05:30to see how you can build majorities, consensus. And I have heard a nice quote here, that consensus
05:39doesn't mean unanimity on every topic, but a broad consensus of the international community. Or sometimes,
05:46and these are the nice technical parts, which I think the UN is really strong in, that sometimes
05:55people just stay silent. So you say, we make a proposal, and if nobody rejects within the next 48
06:02hours, it will be taken on board. So trying to organize consensus doesn't mean that everybody has to
06:11agree on every single point. But you really have to bring together actors who want to do progressive
06:20steps, building the future together, and also see that you focus on the things which unites us,
06:27instead of looking at the half sentence which divides us.
06:31The approach towards Israel is, of course, one very controversial topic. How much might it help you
06:39that the current, our new German Chancellor, Friedrich Merz, has changed his take on Israel?
06:48It's more critical with Israel. Will this help your position here?
06:51Well, obviously, I changed my national head towards now the light blue UN head. So I'm not speaking
07:00for Germany here anymore. And the General Assembly has been very clear on the issue of the situation in
07:08Gaza, on the Middle East situation in resolutions, but also by the international courts, for example.
07:17So the ICJ, the International Court for Justice, published last year its advisory opinion on the two-state solution,
07:27but also on the responsibilities for Israel as in occupying power. Underlining also with regard to the
07:36current situation, the obligation with regard to humanitarian aid, situation with regard of food,
07:44but also the right of every state to live sovereign and in dignity. And this has been the line, because
07:52you asked me also as a German in my former role, as a former foreign minister of Germany, underlining that
08:00the base for the work of Germany is the security of the state of Israel, but also international law,
08:08including international humanitarian law. You just referred to your former role as Germany's
08:14foreign secretary, secretary of state, foreign minister. You are known or you were known as someone
08:21who was really outspoken when it comes to criticizing human rights validations. Also, for example, with
08:28Russia, when it comes to the war in Ukraine. How much might this complicate your role now as a
08:35unifier in the United Nations? Or is it the other side that many people know you well and respect you
08:42for your outspokenness? How did you receive that in your first hours in your new job?
08:46Well, even the weeks and months before when I was coming here to New York, obviously,
08:53it's helpful that everybody knows who you are. And there are many, many connecting points. And this is
09:00why I think there was a tendency over the last years that presidents of the General Assembly has been
09:06before foreign ministers, even prime ministers, because they have a big network and are interconnected
09:14in the world. And I could also feel that it helps a lot that I've been in the last years in many of the countries
09:20from the permanent interests and representatives here. So the central Asian states, for example, said,
09:25you know, when we remember when we're discussing about water climate crisis and how it could bridge also the dividing
09:30lines in our areas, that they are already connecting points with the work I have done before. And on the
09:38other hand, I mean, it's like in normal life. If you have a new job, you have a new job description. And this
09:45is just the normal way, not only for politicians, diplomats, but I would say everybody working. So
09:52obviously the job description of a president is different than being representative of one country.
09:58Now I'm being the representative of 193 countries. However, the foundation, the compass is the same,
10:06because the work, the constitution of Germany is based on the Charter of the United Nations.
10:11And the foundation of my work here in New York is also the Charter of the Foundation of the United
10:17Nations. So this is why I underlined also here in my introduction speech that I see my role in defending
10:26the Charter and speaking up for the Charter, as I've done in the past, I will also in the future.
10:32You just kind of mentioned it yourself. There's a lot of financial pressure on the United Nations.
10:37We have Donald Trump as president of the United States in the White House right now. He's not a
10:42huge fan of multinational institutions such as the United Nations. What does this mean precisely when you
10:50say the United Nations needs to become more efficient? What do you think you will be targeting on?
10:59We have to deal with the world as it is. And if there are member states and especially big member
11:07states with big contributions announcing that they might reduce the contributions, obviously an
11:12organization has to deal with it. But I find very important that besides new financial announcement,
11:22anyhow, this organization needs a modernization. And this is again a work I can build on from before,
11:28because also beforehand we had many discussions with especially those countries who are believing in
11:36the multilateral system, who are believing in the United Nations, how we can update this organization
11:41to the challenges, the tasks of a 21st century. Maybe take it very simple. We are all speaking about AI.
11:50So there are new methods where you don't need handwritten protocols anymore. We have here an organization
11:57where you have translation in six official languages and sometimes even more because multilateralism means
12:03also multilingualism. However, translation is a heavy cost burden for this institution. So every minute you
12:11speak really counts. So simple things of saying, okay, really working as a modern organization with more
12:18digital products, but also clear speaking times, limits on speaking times. And this sounds so simple
12:24and easy, but these are tasks we have to do anyhow. The example I gave before, if organizations are doing
12:31similar groundwork in the field, it would be more efficient if you would really synchronize
12:37this work. So this is why I suggested, but not only out of the blue for myself, but because I heard it from
12:45so many that we should really look in these challenging moments, what would be more efficient without,
12:54and this is important to me, without having this as a pure cost cutting exercise. Because what the
13:02goal is at the end is to preserve the core of the United Nations. And this brings me to the points
13:09again, peace and security, development and human rights and to deliver on this work. Will everybody
13:17like this process? Probably not. But this is why it has to be so inclusive. It has to include so many
13:24actors. Because again, we need a big majority for this organization to make it fit for the future.
13:31Last question. Talking about majorities, then we of course have the P5 and the veto countries. That's
13:37also one reason why many people say the UN is a toothless tiger. Because when it comes to the
13:43Security Council, hardly any resolution which really could change the world does come through anymore.
13:50Because one of these countries is putting in a veto. Is this also something you are going to deal with
13:56as the president of the United Nations General Assembly? Or is this something for another UN body?
14:04Well, the Security Council by the Charter is taking a decision on peace and security. They have the only
14:11veto power, which we do not have in other institutions. But the Charter also gives a great role to the General
14:19Assembly. And using this role more intensively if there is a blockage in the Security Council.
14:27There have been already some steps in the past. Different initiatives. So the resolution for peace,
14:33for example. But also initiatives saying if there is a veto, there has to be an explanation in the General
14:40Assembly. So there is already work going on in this direction. And again, my role is if there is a big will in the
14:49in the General Assembly to move forward on these tracks, which you can see also in this the name
14:56is revitalization process. So there is already a proposal being discussed. And there are many
15:02expects in it. So yes, not only for myself, but for the General Assembly there will be a bigger role in the
15:09future with regard to peace and security. However, if I may, I would like to say at the end also coming from the
15:17national system. We don't have perfect national systems. We are not living in a perfect world. So
15:24we have also the cases in every country that something which is written there by law, you're not allowed
15:31obviously to kill somebody else or to be a thief. Anyhow, you have these cases in every system and you
15:38follow up with courts and everything else. But you cannot prevent everything. And it's similar here in the
15:45United Nations. This is not the perfect system, but it's the best system we are having. So yes, lately,
15:54there has been a lot of frustration. You called it a tiger without teeth, that in the world of 120
16:02conflicts, one might think, okay, what can the United Nations do? However, we have also seen lately,
16:10for example, in Syria, that there always comes a moment where it's very important that the United
16:17Nations had a clear standing with regard to Syria in the past breaching of the charter and then being
16:24there and being ready for reconstruction for humanitarian aid and also for peace and security
16:31agreements. So it's hard work, but it's work the world definitely needs right now.
16:36Madam President, thank you very much. Thanks a lot.