James Risch Asks Ex-Ambassador About Strategic Value Of Having More African Students Study In The US

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During a Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing last month, Sen. James Risch (R-ID) spoke about the United States' strategic interest in enticing more African students to attend American universities.

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00:00Thank you, Ambassador. We're now going to go through a five-minute question, around five

00:06minutes each, to each of the senators who wish to participate. And I'm going to start, and

00:12I have to tell you that the watching President Rehudo with the Chinese holding hands and talking

00:23about a new world order is just stunning. After all the work and effort we've put in there,

00:29and to see him talking about a new world order, you know, the new world order was constructed

00:36by the United States and democracies, capitalist countries that are human rights-loving countries,

00:44and the new new world order that these countries are talking about is being constructed by the

00:51autocracies, the outright communists, socialists, people who have no respect for human rights.

00:59It's stunning to hear countries talk about wanting to join or promote that world order

01:07when the world order that was constructed after World War II has served us so really well. Certainly

01:14not perfectly, but then again, the world isn't a perfect place, but so much better than what you'd

01:20see if the autocrats took over. It's discouraging to hear that. And part of it, I think, is tied

01:28to the fact that when we do things in Africa, they seem to be individual-centric instead of

01:35a country-centric. We don't focus on institution, we focus on individuals. And I don't know why

01:42it seems to be more prevalent in this part of the world than others. So if each you could take a quick

01:47run at a very complex question. So why don't you start?

01:52Thank you, Chairman. I agree President Rudeau's comments were discouraging. They're not also out of

02:03the ordinary for the types of comments that Afghan leaders make, especially when they travel to Beijing,

02:08unfortunately. This is a challenge for the United States. I would suggest that Afghan leaders haven't

02:14always thoroughly thought through the consequences of this different type of world order, especially

02:21smaller countries that are smaller military or economic powers. The type of world order that China,

02:29Russia, Iran are advocating for would mean that they would be victimized, probably, in many ways.

02:35The grievances that Afghan leaders often express are focused on a few key issues. And then I think

02:43these larger powers, like China, like Russia, like Iran, have co-opted those issues into their broader

02:49agenda to confront the United States. I think the U.S. should make it clear to Afghan leaders that while,

02:57of course, they're welcome to have normal relations with these countries, especially if you're a major

03:02non-NATO ally, there are certain responsibilities associated with that. And I think the U.S. needs to be

03:09much more aggressive in its messaging, frankly, to African publics and to African leadership about

03:14the benefits that you laid out of the world order that the United States has underpinned for decades now.

03:21I appreciate that. And I think you hit on something that probably deserves more thought and more attention,

03:27and that is the fact that this is the kind of thing that they're used to. And the reason they're used

03:32to it is they see it all over the continent. And they don't have the cadre of people that study in

03:37the United States like most other continents do, really. I mean, China, for example, has got hundreds

03:43of thousands of students studying here. And Europeans are notorious for having lots of people here. So

03:49they're exposed to a different type of government, I think. Ambassador, your thoughts?

03:55Thank you. That's such an interesting last point. I couldn't agree more that

04:01bringing more African students to the U.S. would absolutely be in U.S. interest. We've seen time

04:08and again how it can pay dividends down the line, although it's very difficult, actually, for a lot

04:12of Africans to come do university and graduate studies here right now.

04:16And you know, the thing that strikes me, too, is when we deal with leaders, as all of us do, from

04:22all over the planet, it always amazes me how well, how good their English is, most of them. And you ask

04:28them why? And they studied here in the United States. People who are coming up through those other

04:33countries are sent by their parents or their government or something to study here. And the result is,

04:39they take home the view of how important human rights are and how important democracy is. I'm sorry,

04:45I interrupted you. Go ahead. No, no, I agree with you completely. I do think

04:52there's kind of an inflection point in many parts of the continent right now. Because you have these

04:58very young populations that are now urbanizing, digitally connected, there's a lot more political

05:07volatility. And so part of what I think is happening is a demand-driven desire for an international

05:16order that takes African equities into account, the sort of awareness that the Bretton Woods institutions

05:21were created right before most African countries were independent. And then that is capitalized on

05:28by U.S. adversaries, right, to distort the message to the U.S. wishes to keep African populations in

05:36poverty or, you know, that's more or less the thrust of it. There's also the fact that, you know, money

05:44talks. And for a lot of these African leaders, they're dealing with tremendously constrained fiscal

05:50space. They have big debt burdens. And the way the U.S. provides assistance in ways that we can be

05:59accountable to the American taxpayers, it's a little bit different dealing with the Chinese or

06:07with some of these goal factors who've been gaining influence. And so the last thing I would say is

06:15that I couldn't agree more that it's really important to keep an eye on the internal dynamics

06:20in these countries for the U.S. to understand and have strong contacts and relationships with actors

06:26outside of government. Because leadership changes are going to happen and these investments in these

06:31one-to-one personal elite relationships will not serve our interests. They'll have a sell-by date

06:38and will be left in the cold. Well, I appreciate that. And I appreciate the remark you made about

06:43the fact that money talks. And we wind up with that all over. You know, it's hard to explain to people

06:50that there's a real difference between capitalism and socialism. You know, where the government owns the

06:54capital and owns all the money, it's easy for them to spread it out in other countries as they

06:59deem appropriate. Whereas in capitalism, you need the profit motive and the free market system to back you up.

07:07With that, Senator Shaheen.

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