Carrie Lederer is a filmmaker, television producer, and cinematographer known for her immersive, human-centered storytelling. Nicknamed “Carrier Pigeon” for her global reach and on-the-ground reporting, she has traveled the world on assignment with her camera, building deep connections with the people and places she documents. Her multi-decade career spans unscripted television for major networks, independent documentaries, and nonprofit-driven social impact films across a wide range of genres and locations. Combining cinematographic expertise with a journalist’s instinct, she crafts stories that are both emotionally resonant and visually compelling. After years living and working in Santa Monica, she now calls Portland, Oregon home. Carrie returns to her documentary roots with Wild Horses at the Door, her directorial debut in the short film category.
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00:00:00hi this is dan akroyd he's progressive he's beautiful he's thoughtful he's intelligent
00:00:08he's powerful he's positive he is stephen cuoco on power 98.5 satellite radio
00:00:14we don't play the social game we are social power 98.5
00:00:21and empowering listeners from the u.s to the uk live on air with stephen cuoco
00:00:29good morning good afternoon or good evening no matter where you are in the world you are
00:00:43listening to power 98.5 satellite radio i'm live i'm stephen cuoco live on air with stephen cuoco
00:00:50it's been a morning afternoon i'm i'm not worth it carrie you you already got the accidental
00:00:58voice message that was meant for someone else and i accidentally sent it to you please tell me you
00:01:04did listen to it i did and and i you were you were firm but you know articulate about what it was
00:01:13you needed done with the lawn and i feel so close to you like when i saw that i'm like wait a minute
00:01:20that went to carry so then i i clicked on it to copy the audio and then i sent it to my landlord
00:01:27oh gosh that's i think you can delete text messages so yeah next time no i there was nothing too
00:01:37personal in there now i know you even better you know me even better and even closer of what's
00:01:43happening in my personal life oh my god exactly yeah he goes uh my landlord responds not listening
00:01:51to your rants steven he says i ranted because i'm setting boundaries everyone's a victim when you set
00:02:00boundaries we're ranting i rant i'm thorough i'm a publicist i'm a journalist i'm supposed to be
00:02:08thorough i'm not a one sentence person something i need to learn boundaries for sure other than you
00:02:18know my garden even even my garden sort of goes off into other boundaries well you know it's thriving
00:02:25getting the chaos of the weeds complaining and trying to take over and acting and running amok yeah
00:02:34thank you once again we've got uh carrie letterer she is a producer director wild horses at the door
00:02:46is the latest and greatest i'm going to say deserves an award it's picked for this year's brave maker film
00:02:53festival so i hope tony and the team over there saw my recommendation my award recommendation
00:03:01because it's got it has a trophy on there oh wow so why do i even need to screen i got the reward
00:03:08so i gave you the award i just hope it becomes official and when you're at
00:03:13film festival this year they hand you that gold i'm super super excited about brave maker uh it came to
00:03:23me from uh the chimera project which is an organization that supports women in in film non-binary you name
00:03:34it women in film and i got a some finishing funds from them and they sent me an email and said hey carrie
00:03:40submit to the submit to the brave maker brave maker brave maker okay and i was thrilled to to be accepted
00:03:48for for for screening and then to learn that wild horses at the door is actually going to be
00:03:53in cinemark theater i mean that's that's golden for a filmmaker especially when you've raised funds
00:04:04to put into sweetening the sound and working with the colorist and it's a very cinematic journey wild
00:04:12horses at the door so i can't wait to hear the horses wrap around the room with the audience
00:04:18visually it's stunning thank you the trailer is perfect extremely well done that it's not cheap looking
00:04:30it's has a story that most people if not a lot of people may you know it's it's about homelessness it's
00:04:41about self-infliction it's about this this man who he purchased a farm in colorado right his sister
00:04:49helped him purchase a farm in colorado yeah it's it's it's about a guy whose name is john wayne smith
00:04:57and john lived unhoused for eight years he struggled with alcoholism and went into recovery
00:05:05when i say homeless he lived in a bus it just outside of vale colorado in a small town called
00:05:12minturn and after eight years he thought i i really need to change my situation and he came across an ad
00:05:20for 40 acres uh and a steel building on a remote mesa in southern colorado and his estranged family
00:05:31came to his rescue and said okay we'll help you purchase this the steel building and within a
00:05:39week he moved out there and he knew that there were wild horses out there john had grown up around
00:05:44horses entire life in fact his last full-time job well a job that he loved was working on a ranch
00:05:53in minturn and the woman who owned the ranch passed and it really devastated him and that's
00:06:00kind of when things started to spiral so anyway he moves out to this mesa and he's living there and at
00:06:08first he sees these wild horses from a distance one evening a pregnant injured mare shows up at his door
00:06:15and he helps deliver the full and he names the full blizzard from that day forth all these horses started
00:06:23to come in and he found healing and he found purpose caring for these wild horses so that's that's
00:06:34essentially you know the story the long line story uh but it's um it's a story about resilience it's a
00:06:43story about love it's about this profound transformative power of the healing of horses
00:06:51uh it's about sustainability both for john and for the horses if i may ask did you have a trailer there
00:07:01because i saw how he had to take a bath and where and he had to buy water to bring water back up so
00:07:08it's not there's no plumbing nope it's he lives off grid really off grid he's got solar panels he has
00:07:18to haul all the water up uh about 350 gallons of water daily but that's not just for him because now that
00:07:27he's committed himself to caring for the horses he provisions the horses with with water and so
00:07:34john gets some help from his family but he's uh on disability so he gets money from that and
00:07:43oftentimes he's constantly putting this money into both caring for the horses and and and caring for
00:07:50himself so so yes i when i went out there i camped out initially uh in the summertime or i stayed in his
00:07:58bus and then when i went in the winter time i was pretty cold out there so i stayed on his couch and
00:08:05we'd share meals together and otherwise i was a fly on the wall documenting the rhythm of of john
00:08:13wayne smith's life on this mesa through these seasons it is a selfless dedication to your craft
00:08:22and artistry to do that because to hear oh you stayed on the couch you shared meals when you watch
00:08:30this movie you're going to really understand not only off grid but this is how humans lived before all
00:08:39of this modernization and just for you to be so accustomed to how we live now you went back to the
00:08:48way way way way beginning before all of this i there's i'm going to tell you there's no amount
00:08:57of money or anything that could get me to do what you did oh really you're not a camper no i hate it
00:09:03my version of camping is glamping saying maybe what at the hilton uh-huh oh wow well we're really far
00:09:12removed from wait a minute you described your place out there in the countryside yes but i have a running
00:09:18toilet i know that's true yeah i do not if i'm not able to take a shower yeah it's a toilet yeah so you
00:09:28never water the bushes uh i i am i have a great green thumb because i am from new jersey but no i mean
00:09:37what john does no yeah i give him credit i mean it's it's because that when you really look at it
00:09:47and if you if you can expand on this carrie and once again we've got carrie letterer here she's a film
00:09:52director producer of wild horses at the door it's going to premiere this summer at brave maker film
00:09:58festival and also to share you were in the peace corps for three and a half years you've been directing
00:10:05shooting shooting and editing even hosting and non-fiction for over two decades
00:10:10uh for you to have done that i have a lot of respect for you because you put all of your desires and
00:10:23your goals and your pleasures aside selflessly to tell the story of someone else you stepped into his
00:10:32world how many people can do that i can't i wouldn't say that i can't do it but i don't i don't
00:10:39know if i would at the level of dedication that you brought to this film and not just the film to tell
00:10:46someone else's story not everyone can do that not not what you did this this is something completely
00:10:55different well uh it's been like i said many many decades immersing myself in cultures throughout
00:11:05the world both in the u.s and and abroad i started my career at cnn in the news and then left and joined
00:11:17the peace corps talk about immersion i started in the comoros islands which are a group of islands off
00:11:24the east coast of of east africa after a year i then transferred to senegal and did two years there
00:11:31and i was an environmental educator and media specialist and you're living in villages you're
00:11:38living with people who subsist off the land and as an environmental educator well gee they had a whole
00:11:46heck of a lot more to teach me about their environment than i felt i had to teach them and i sort of
00:11:51became like a human resource profound experience in my life uh after peace corps i the digital revolution
00:12:00hit and so then you could afford to to buy a camera and final pro came out so you can edit so i worked still
00:12:06on a lot of non-profit social impact films i did a lot of independent documentaries and then the reality
00:12:15trend hit well gee now now i can get a paycheck and so for for two decades almost i i worked on
00:12:23everything from weight loss to bridezilla to ice road truckers navigating through the himalayas
00:12:32to alaskan bush people uh say yes to the prom say yes to the dress street wear gangs true crime
00:12:42of gosh you name it i feel like i've delved into all these worlds and i absolutely thrive on that i it's it's
00:12:53an exploration through humanity and and the world and so i've done it with i've done it on teams you know
00:13:05as part of teams but from the very get-go i established myself as kind of this jack of all
00:13:12this one woman band i can produce i can shoot i can edit i was an editor at cnn and you can drop me
00:13:20anywhere off in the world and i'll bring home the compelling story so you know fast forward many many
00:13:27years decades later and i thought gee i really oh people would ask me well what are you proud of you
00:13:33tell me about some of your work and certainly there's there's a lot of work that that i'm proud
00:13:38of but i thought can i call myself a filmmaker i mean how crazy is that that i didn't feel that i
00:13:45could even call myself a filmmaker so i thought let me get back to my documentary roots and this story
00:13:51of john wayne came to me in a facebook post someone he has a facebook page with 5 000 followers
00:13:59and he journals every day about these horses that he lives with and all their names and their
00:14:05personalities and life ups and downs on the mesa and someone said john you should have your story
00:14:11documented and someone put my name in the in the comments and so john and i exchanged info and we
00:14:19bonded over the fact that we were both ski bums ski in the same slopes out in in various areas of
00:14:26colorado snowmass and aspen john john is this multi-dimensional character homeless alcohol
00:14:34you know recovering alcoholic but he's an amazing artist he's a musician he's a father he's a grandfather
00:14:41uh he's just he's and this incredibly poetic guy so you know here i have this this great character
00:14:49and he was really game to having his his story told um and of course it's just a fraction of of his story
00:14:58but but a beautiful story that that i think will give those who may struggle with homelessness or addiction
00:15:06or ptsd hope that they can find healing in unexpected ways so that's a long-winded response to
00:15:15how did you how did you do it i i think i've been doing it for for a good 30 years and i'm attracted to
00:15:23sustainable living and uh i love horses i i i you know i i'm amazed by horses and their healing power and
00:15:35and equine therapy has become so popular and and the reason being is because
00:15:40well they they echo our emotions you know or it's a research has shown that horses can synchronize
00:15:49their heartbeat not only to each other but to humans and so someone who may be anxious or uh you know
00:15:58have certain issues the horses can can well they can sort of regulate that and bring you to this
00:16:06place of calm and that's very much what what john discovered you know in being around them
00:16:12i didn't know that really yeah like if someone's having a panic attack or technicardia or something
00:16:19does that a horse can yeah i yeah very much so so horse horses in a band you know if they're sleeping
00:16:28they they they do synchronize their heartbeat and if one happens to notice some sort of threat or danger
00:16:35then once that heartbeat changes it kind of alerts the others in the band that that that something's
00:16:42up uh how they do it with humans i they're they're just incredibly intuitive and intelligent
00:16:50animals so it's interesting that if someone is anxious and they mirror the emotions then how do they
00:16:56not know that how do they not mirror that why would they not get anxious if the person gets spooked
00:17:02um i good question i don't i don't i don't know i just know that they can synchronize their
00:17:12heartbeats but they have this calming effect on on many people and are used you know for therapeutic
00:17:19reasons probably the most therapeutic animal other than you know than than dogs pets and dogs and birds and
00:17:28well because of watching the film now the images of john with the horses the way he imbued and enveloped
00:17:42himself in a way they did within each other's chemistry and and energy and in their bodies that
00:17:52makes sense now it makes sense of why he said what he had said at times in the films
00:17:56um he even referenced memory serves me correctly that they are therapy or therapeutic for him right
00:18:05yes i believe absolutely absolutely
00:18:08yeah
00:18:12i mean what's amazing
00:18:16you know when people see the film that have been around horses or the fact that
00:18:21these are wild horses they're not domesticated no one's put a saddle on them no one's put a
00:18:29you know a um harness on them of any sort and and john you know you can call him a whisperer he doesn't
00:18:38like to think he's a whisperer he thinks he's a listener uh although he's constantly chatting them up and
00:18:44they all have their you know their personalities and he calls them by the names and the bands and
00:18:49what have you but john can talk can can can get a full to lay down in his lap and take a nap with the
00:19:01full while the mares settle in you know their heads next to his and they go into this dream state
00:19:11together that's how he describes it and it's just it's just phenomenal to to to observe this to witness
00:19:18this uh he has he has an amazing connection with these horses and and thus you know for him this this
00:19:26therapy of just staying in the present moment he uses his art in the same way he he does these escher like drawings
00:19:34that are just very intricate and and they they you know they may take an entire day uh but again it's
00:19:43it brings him back to the present and just as the horses being bring him back to the present when he
00:19:48plays his guitar he's you know in the moment and so that's uh yeah that that's his therapy and that
00:19:56that that that's what has provided him this healing and and given him purpose i think he's fascinating
00:20:03and fascinating in a way that you can watch him longer than how the film was the film is as at its
00:20:12sweet spot perfect sweet spot in length is there a part two will there be a part two or some sort of
00:20:19follow up this year next year with john i don't have it in in my books to to follow up i would imagine
00:20:28that there could be a sequel um yeah not not not sure uh you know that that was that was a tricky
00:20:38thing i went you know when i decided i'm gonna get back to my you know documentary roots and i'm gonna
00:20:43make a short i kind of you know confine myself to that amount of time which you know is is 40 minutes
00:20:52and under at least that's what the category is and which has made a little challenging to to be accepted
00:20:58into festivals because as i've learned they prefer to program a 20 minute or less and um but here mine's
00:21:06right at the very you know edge of it and when i was out there documenting yeah could i have continued
00:21:13to document probably but where would the story have gone i feel that uh you know unless i had gone
00:21:22deeper into his background you know if you asked how how's john today very much the same as what
00:21:30happened in in the film you know winters are very punishing the spring arrives and the mesa is just
00:21:39all in bloom and the foals are born and and it's you know this this new life and and he you know gets
00:21:49this new new lease on life as we all do when when the spring arrives and but so you know as far as other
00:21:56dramas happening well yeah always um you know does it warrant continuing to to document beyond
00:22:03perhaps but i think for for the sake of this this film i felt that you know i captured enough of this
00:22:12story to where you walk out and there's conversations that come up about all different
00:22:20topics and i think i mentioned to you when we when we spoke on the phone that i'd shown it to
00:22:25a friend of mine uh who's in her 50s and her mom was in her 80s and her son who's 13 and they all
00:22:34had different takeaways from the film the son was really interested in the practicals well what how's
00:22:39he charging his phone and how's he feeding himself and and where's he getting the money does he have a
00:22:45job out there and you know mom was was very much about just the fact that it is such a uh you know a
00:22:55conversation piece and that it touches on all these different themes and and my friend was really
00:23:01kind of honed in on on the homeless issue and when john describes being homeless and how people turn
00:23:10away you know because because because why why why do why do people turn away from from the homeless
00:23:17because because because you empathize with them or because you just can't take you know maybe you
00:23:23feel guilty in some way because you're not you're giving or helping or you know whatever it is that
00:23:29that they're struggling through so she said gosh that's that's me i really i i i realize i do that and
00:23:36you know so that that to me as a filmmaker is is is extraordinary you know to to create a film that
00:23:44people will continue to talk about long after the you know the last frame flashes by and it it brings
00:23:52up something different for everyone it will and it does and i'm and that's a good thing there's
00:23:58how there's no way from seeing this film every person's going to take away the same exact message
00:24:08or receive the same exact message it's what's going to make it a great topic point of discussion
00:24:15not just here but even at the you know when people come up to you because you're attending
00:24:21brave maker this year right you'll be very much yeah absolutely you gotta let me know like what what
00:24:26were the conversations like yeah yeah that's that's also the best is is screening your film
00:24:32and having a conversation immediately with the audience after who you know are full of of
00:24:40thoughts and questions and yeah that's that's the best
00:24:46your nickname carrier pigeon suggests a commitment to on the ground storytelling what's a moment where being
00:24:57present in a place completely changed the way you saw a story hmm wow that's a that's that's a tough
00:25:10one um change the way i saw the story being present um you know okay i i don't know for some reason this
00:25:24one came to mind but alaskan bush people okay another off the grid you know family who goes and and moves
00:25:30up to alaska and lives off grid and he and and and the series is is really just kind of mundane tasks
00:25:40that this family does to you know to to to survive out out in you know in the middle of of alaska
00:25:48alaska and you know so so as producers you know with these reality shows sometimes you sort of
00:25:54anticipate well you know what's what's going to be the conflict today or what what's going to happen
00:26:00that you know is going to make this in you know an interesting episode but um with with the brown
00:26:06family it it seemed like no matter what we didn't have to plan anything that something crazy was going
00:26:14to happen like they're you know they're in the middle of uh the open water off fishing to bring
00:26:20fish back to the homestead and the the boat breaks down or uh you know you name it some something would
00:26:30would happen in in this in this series and i and i think that and sometimes that's the difference
00:26:36between the reality when you have sort of a contrived uh you know or uh a confined amount of
00:26:44time to be able to to tell your story you got a big crew out there you got to make something happen
00:26:50you might throw something in uh whereas with documentary you can you can kind of let it breathe
00:26:56but yet even with in the reality you know even even when you're in the present and and you
00:27:02you know might have planned for for something to happen you know something else will will arise but
00:27:09i don't know that's just what came up with with being in the present with the brown family and alaskan
00:27:14bush people and that's why the series continued because oftentimes these these incidences were were
00:27:20rather comedic and and they were just great characters all around um but you know you you ask about
00:27:29presence uh i mean the peace corps
00:27:33was very much had me immersed in in local culture and speaking another language and at the time that
00:27:43i joined the peace corps this was before internet hit actually internet was starting to come into
00:27:49mainstream when i was in the peace corps but i didn't know much about it because i kind of
00:27:55you know i wanted to be present and i wanted to be uh you know immersed in in this world that you know
00:28:02where the biorhythms were a lot slower than they are in the u.s uh and after two years in the peace
00:28:10corps they actually make you return home to touch ground with your own culture and i'll never forget
00:28:16returning to to the u.s and going to a movie with my brother and sister-in-law and it came up
00:28:21www dot i went what the hell is w dot i mean i just you know never i'll never forget that and then
00:28:31the whole world changed and here you are yeah and and voila here i am and now we got ai coming out and
00:28:40we'll just roll with it yeah you blend the technical precision of cinematography with the instincts
00:28:51of a journalist do you ever feel tension between the two and how do you resolve it in the edit
00:28:59gosh in the edit well so a lot of the reality shows that i worked on the reality documentary
00:29:10shows that i worked on i wasn't in the edit i was mostly a field producer uh drawing out the story
00:29:19um so i'll i'll address the edit in a second but there were times that that i would conduct an
00:29:28interview
00:29:28and and the people that i was interviewing would get so comfortable that they would start to reveal
00:29:38a lot of very personal situations in their lives so much so that i was concerned that
00:29:45that that if this aired that it could come back to haunt them and you know there were times where
00:29:51i'd write notes for for posts saying you know look i know i have their release but you know do this
00:29:59person justice and and not include this um that was the best i could do you know when it came to
00:30:06impacting what would show up on you know on tv the next month um as far as as editing you know even
00:30:15even with this documentary i conducted interviews with john uh even though i i didn't necessarily
00:30:23show the talking head in in the film but you know he narrates his story uh and and sort of parsing
00:30:32through it and and making sure that uh i mean it's his voice it's it's not as though i was writing
00:30:44the script but um i just wanted to make sure that uh i was it's a tough one um that i was
00:30:55telling telling telling his story in in in full um that that you know making sure that his dignity
00:31:07was you know remained intact i mean it's not that he said anything that he should have been
00:31:11embarrassed about in any way um but sometimes i wondered if i needed to lean in more to explain
00:31:20some of what came out um yeah i i i i don't know sorry i'm drawing kind of a blank on on how to how
00:31:34to explain that i think i yeah i believe there's something that came up for you that you wondered
00:31:41about it's just seeing what the question would take you yeah yeah i mean i think as a journalist you
00:31:49know you you go in and you you have a set of questions um that you're curious about or that
00:31:55you know is going to tell the narrative of someone's story and you use that as a guide but when you're
00:32:02sitting in conversation uh you know if you're if you're really attuned to to the person that you're
00:32:08speaking with something else may come up that then leads you you know down a whole other path and so
00:32:15hey let's go there as long as you're as long as you the person i'm interviewing is comfortable
00:32:21with this you know with this follow-up question or revealing this are you okay with this being
00:32:28you know in in the post part of of you know the story in the final cut if i if i keep it there so
00:32:35i think that's where i establish trust is is just in in the line of questioning and how they respond
00:32:43um you know with that because sometimes they forget the cameras there or they're
00:32:47oh wow i'm getting really comfortable in this interview so much so that i'm telling you a little
00:32:52bit more than i want to be telling you you answered it yeah okay good there that that was it okay
00:32:59you answered it before but you just you you marinated it you you rolled it in perfectly into a nice
00:33:10and you know and that's the other thing you asked about technical um so because i've been
00:33:16shooting and producing for so long you know it's it's kind of like this right i mean you're you have
00:33:23to be very attuned to okay i'm i'm i'm composing a beautiful shot i'm moving with the subject
00:33:31but you also have to be listening for the story through the audio oh wait there's a not you know
00:33:36there's in the audio so then you have to address that like you you wear multiple hats you know
00:33:43when you're producing and shooting and i think that i've done it for so long that it becomes
00:33:48instinctual but but what's funny is my husband would say you're not a very good multitasker like
00:33:53you have to be tuned i know isn't that odd like if i'm doing something else and yet he asked me a
00:33:59question maybe selective maybe it's selective listening
00:34:03oh the film proves him wrong yeah right exactly the camera does not lie right right and you know
00:34:17that was that was tough too i mean being you know out there on a mesa with no crew uh yeah i'd wear
00:34:24everything on my back i mean there were times where i had a still camera and my video camera and
00:34:29a tripod you know and my headset and and you know the mics are having interference and you know
00:34:37so you just kind of have to stay calm in the storm and carry on and um yeah he didn't his response
00:34:49john's response was
00:34:51he didn't pay attention i truly felt as though he knew he knew how to just block everything else out
00:35:01and just stay in his own world yeah i felt that that's what i seen like i i he moved through wild
00:35:08horses at the door the film he moved
00:35:11through his life in throughout his life while you were filming as though
00:35:21as exactly as as you said is you you did not exist it's just something about the way he interprets
00:35:32information he knows where to be
00:35:36within himself he knows when he needs to step out and be aware be to be peripheral
00:35:45to be 360 180 overall in all when watching the film it did not feel
00:35:55as though someone was filming it you're the second person it's funny this is an i was on
00:36:02another podcast and the woman said the same thing why is it that i felt like a camera wasn't or wasn't
00:36:08there i mean i'm wondering
00:36:10uh i'm wondering if it's so so having been you know worked on so many different shows and being
00:36:23a director and an editor and kind of knowing all the different angles that you need to sort of tell the
00:36:30the you know the fullness of this scene what is your beginning what is your middle what is your end
00:36:36and moving around you know with with the cam i mean i'm i'm mostly a handheld camera person i mean
00:36:43you know obviously i put it on a tripod for the long shots for for time lapses uh you know had a long
00:36:50lens on there at times uh had a drone shot even so that you know i could establish the isolation
00:36:57the the grandness of of of this mesa um and so maybe in the way that that i shot it and thought
00:37:06about all how how how is this gonna look in an edit do i have i have i captured everything i need to
00:37:15tell the fullness of of of this scene and and so i would just be moving around this way in that and
00:37:22john would just be doing his life uh and you know when he first asked me so how are you going to
00:37:27approach this carrie and you know there's a lot of filmmakers say as as a fly on the wall and and that's
00:37:33kind of what i what i was uh and and i think you know the the because i was living out there and we
00:37:42became good friends that you know he he emoted as though i was just a friend of his and yet it came
00:37:54through my lens in in that way so perhaps that's why you felt that and i wanted to create this
00:38:02immersive experience it was a very it was intentional uh you know as a director to to create that
00:38:08uh one of my early influencers was um frederick weisman i don't know if you are familiar with
00:38:15the the documentary um filmmaker but you know he he documented a lot of american institutions um
00:38:25uh welfare a high school and the camera would just roll you know it was just raw uh and and you
00:38:34know he would shoot for for six weeks he often did the sound and had a couple cinematographers and
00:38:39then he would go back and edit for eight months and and that's you know exactly what i did
00:38:44um so that was intentional yeah you happen to be another wild horse at the debate yeah that that
00:38:54moved perfectly with everything and everything that was there hmm yeah well and the music helped too i
00:39:03think a lot of people a lot of people comment on the music and and some of that music john played on
00:39:10his guitar there's um a couple popular musicians which was kind of a lesson for me for music licensing
00:39:16because i can't have to keep chasing the funds in order to pay for the for the rights to this music
00:39:21but it was just such a a wonderful lyrical underlay you know the music so one is uh tony joe white
00:39:29it's a swamp blues artist and the other one is uh guy davis which is the one that plays in the end
00:39:36which is um sometimes i wish that i could fly away and so john played those and i thought wow i love
00:39:43those tunes i wonder if i can get the rights to those and yes i did but it'll be you know this much
00:39:50for them but they they they work with me so that's great and then i sourced music uh you know royalty
00:39:57free and otherwise but um so you know and i i use it sparingly uh i want wanted the audience to again
00:40:05hear the bird sounds uh hear john's echoing voice when he calls for the horses and so sound you know the
00:40:16soundscape was was just as important as as the visuals of this magnificent mesa and it's surrounded
00:40:23by these circle of of of mountains uh and and the the clouds coming in the weather changing and
00:40:32the smell of of the sage on the mesa and the horses running in and yeah it's just gorgeous
00:40:39how do you balance being both an observer and a participant in the stories you document
00:40:48ensuring authenticity while still shaping a compelling narrative
00:40:54well i don't participate means to means to be you know you kind of turn the camera around on
00:41:05yourself which i have done uh with a travel series that uh i so you know my career i was a producer
00:41:18shooter editor and and travel channel approached me and said hey send us a reel i said okay here's my
00:41:24reel they said no no we want to see you on front of the camera we'd like you to host a show and and
00:41:29juggle all these other roles and this was a show a series called not your average travel guide
00:41:35and it was awesome i mean what a dream job to to get assigned to to travel somewhere and in your own
00:41:43voice and personality take someone on a tour of vegas or sedona or panama or mexico city for dia
00:41:54de los muertos and and so you know here in this case i very much had to be a participant but i
00:42:00approached all those uh all those shows as documentaries as well uh vancouver canada was
00:42:09was the most livable city in the world okay well let's prove or disprove that uh and so off i would
00:42:17go and you know lots lots of interviews on the street so that you know that that's participatory
00:42:24documentary um how do you not become a participant and i think you are a participant just just
00:42:33through through the way that you craft the film i mean it yes it's john wayne's john wayne smith's
00:42:42story but it came through my lens and my vision both as i captured it and as i molded it in an edit so
00:42:52that's where i participated and birthed this this documentary or you know other other projects in
00:43:03my in my life uh yeah does that answer the question sort of
00:43:09doing great don't doubt yourself these are good questions you i'm gonna have to write them down and
00:43:18and really delve in deeper and post post call email email them to you i'll remember them because
00:43:29i'll think back afterwards and go now i know what i should yeah well we'll have this interview that's
00:43:34right you'll hear it i'm trying i've i uh i'm looking for by the way am i bouncing around a lot because
00:43:43i'm on a i'm sitting on a big old mall here so i have a tendency to
00:43:48you're good
00:43:52all right i'm i'm looking for i always have
00:43:57i have 15 questions but i'm not asking all i'm looking at the ones that
00:44:02you have already answered or ones that have already correlated
00:44:06uh i like this one after decades in the field is there a moment where you had to completely
00:44:15unlearn something you once believed about filmmaking
00:44:20learn something
00:44:28you don't have to have an answer if it doesn't resonate
00:44:32yeah you know no i i think i i would just say that
00:44:36i remember when i when i uh had an opportunity to document
00:44:43for smithsonian institute and they run this course called monitoring and assessment of biodiversity
00:44:50and i pitched to them hey how about we create a promotional video and i'll document this course over
00:44:57six weeks i don't know what i was thinking but and they were scientists park people people people
00:45:05from all over the world who wanted to to learn how to come up with management plans for for for
00:45:14biodiversity in their respective areas in the world and so i would be out in the field and and you know
00:45:22filming filming and there were times i just wanted to throw the camera to the side and get my hands
00:45:28dirty and getting down with you know with the scientists looking at what it was that that is
00:45:34something that that i still struggle with is i you know when you constantly have a lens in front of
00:45:40your your face you're you're you're you're a few degrees removed from the reality that you are
00:45:50capturing and and and i'm constantly telling other people's stories and so uh am i am i missing out
00:45:59in some you know an experience experiencing life because i'm always viewing it through a lens and
00:46:06and and and and and presenting it through the lens through a lens or through someone else's voice
00:46:15although it is also my voice but i think that's that's been the hardest thing for me is is when do
00:46:21i just put the camera aside and and be present in in this moment without a camera whether it's a move
00:46:29you know whether it's moving or it's a still camera because i also love to shoot stills
00:46:33but i guess it's just an extension of me now
00:46:37yeah um but i i don't i don't think there's there's been a moment where i kind of went
00:46:46ah i mean i just i i just think
00:46:49well now with every you know with with so much competition for people's attention spans
00:46:57trying to get the message or the truth out has become that much harder
00:47:03uh and so how do you how do you draw people into what it is that you know you've created and you're
00:47:12putting out when you know attention spans are are this short uh i think i think that's a real challenge
00:47:19for you know for filmmakers and
00:47:23what's a cinematographic i'm even saying i can't remember i have this cinematographer
00:47:34cinematographic cinematographic cinematographic cinemagraphic cinemagraphic thank you yeah
00:47:40let's break it down we do we need to break it down
00:47:46cinematographic cinemagraphic cinemagraphic trick or technique you always come back to because of its
00:47:54emotional power no matter how much technology evolves
00:48:00something that i come back to um
00:48:09i think that's why i like handheld i think i think that's why i like handheld uh shooting is because
00:48:25because i'm moving with with the person and you know when it's on a tripod and they're sitting there
00:48:33and they have to stare into the lens it can be intimidating i mean even
00:48:37you know in a zoom uh so i
00:48:41i love the handheld
00:48:43you know cinematography and in films it can be a little bit dizzying i mean that's why they have
00:48:48uh ronins um
00:48:51to to stabilize and and that was something i thought gosh i should really have a ronin out here but
00:48:57you know trying to calibrate that and the horses are running this way and like i don't have to calibrate it
00:49:02you know you just have to you know put it on the tripod get the long lens on
00:49:06you know grab that shot take it off change the lens run out get another angle uh
00:49:13yeah i i think
00:49:16i i yeah and and the ability to um
00:49:21to go in for for for a close-up when when maybe the emotions are heightened
00:49:28yeah i would just say handheld handheld cinematography
00:49:34when documenting real lives there's an ethical tightrope between truth and cinematic interpretation
00:49:42how do you know when you found the right balance
00:49:47yeah i mean i'll bring that back even to to wild horses at the door
00:49:53john's john when i met him had been living on the mesa for three years
00:50:00the homelessness and the struggles
00:50:04had happened you know as a backstory
00:50:09so how do i capture that backstory and keep it real and authentic as as i can
00:50:16uh because it very much needed to figure it figure in but there was no footage of him necessarily
00:50:23living unhoused at the time and so
00:50:26when you bring somebody back to where they experienced trauma
00:50:31i said to john would you be willing to go back to to mintern and show me where
00:50:38you would spend time what did you do during the day uh how did you pass the hours uh
00:50:45you know he he started to relay these stories of what had happened when when he was homeless that he
00:50:52he didn't try to take his life at at one point and you know do you feel comfortable going and sitting
00:50:58where where that occurred and and you know and and i think what happens is is that
00:51:04that that it just brings up the emotion again you know revisiting these places and so
00:51:11so did i did i recreate some of that yes but it was still i think it still had a lot of integrity and i still
00:51:20think it was authentic to to his story um or it it you know it was real in the sense that
00:51:29it it happened exactly like that and and and so i was somebody peering in uh
00:51:38you know and revisiting that time in his life
00:51:41yeah i was surprised when he said that he was trafficked
00:51:46didn't didn't he reference that he was at some building or some place with several people it was like
00:51:53a little meeting or he was outside i believe he referenced that he was trafficked
00:51:58trafficked as as a child yeah he he suffered um yeah i suffered a lot of trauma growing up
00:52:06and that was something that i didn't expand upon i thought that just that statement alone
00:52:13lent itself to realizing that this is something that he'll constantly have to struggle with his
00:52:21entire life um do do do we need to to go into that you know further some some people thought maybe i
00:52:29should but um i i felt that just making the statement that what he had suffered through the abuse and
00:52:37sexual abuse um was enough i was surprised by that yeah even i'm even feeling surprised to even
00:52:45say that to you because often we hear alcoholism sexual abuse but someone acknowledging they were
00:52:56trafficked yeah that that's that's powerful yeah you don't hear that in conversation no
00:53:06no no um you hit you you you did very well i'm not saying that you needed to expand on it
00:53:14it it was just a scene to acknowledge john and his healing and his perseverance that that is
00:53:24something you hear in the film and so this is this isn't why i'm saying this is this isn't about
00:53:31here's a guy who was homeless and you know had you know is recovering from certain addictions like
00:53:39this is deep seriousness uh things that you hear that happen more often than not to women and that's
00:53:48what surprised me is like he was explaining and sharing his story that you don't hear often that
00:53:55happened to happen to men that's where that's what i sat with yeah yeah i worked on this the a&e series
00:54:07intervention uh are you familiar with intervention yeah i used to watch it yeah uh and you know often
00:54:16in in in those episodes the addicts would talk about trauma from their past and and you know it's
00:54:28thought that that a lot of addicts have untreated trauma thus the reason they you know they medicate
00:54:35themselves um and again another reason why i was interested in this story is because at the end of
00:54:42intervention it ends with the intervention the family doesn't want to love their loved ones to
00:54:52death you know by enabling them and so we're going to have an intervention and and really say okay you've
00:54:59hit rock bottom it's time for you to figure out you know go go through detox go through rehab
00:55:05uh and recovery and and you know then the episode ends after that intervention and i was always
00:55:10interested in in the recovery process and so here was an opportunity with john to actually document
00:55:18you know i'll call it recovery you know in real time because once once an addict or an alcoholic you
00:55:26know every day is a new day and every day you're you know practicing the aa steps or you know whatever
00:55:35you've figured out to to help you guide yourself through that day without you know falling off the
00:55:43wagon so to speak and so um so yeah john john really presented um you know a way in which that i that i
00:55:53could document that recovery because every day is a new day for john and and um you know he has his
00:56:00ups and his downs and you know within an hour he could shift you know his personality and um you know
00:56:07something would would come and trigger him and and then you know the and then the horses would show up
00:56:13like in that one scene uh where he calls the reporters that happened real time i mean literally he you
00:56:20know hung up the phone and the horses showed up and their timing could not have been been better
00:56:27and so i just love that juxtaposition of you know these lingering demons and you know the love of
00:56:33these horses um yeah it's uh it's it's a tough tough subject um yeah i mean you you you said you've
00:56:46worked with mental health patients and in what what capacity a counseling grief counseling and uh i i counsel
00:56:54those who had uh substance abuse um certain addictions had a couple that had suicidal tendencies
00:57:04asperger's as well i had one i learned a lot about that what a person with asperger's it's it's it's
00:57:15it's something about how many people who are so misdiagnosed thinking oh someone's got addd or adhd
00:57:26but there's uh but there's such a correlation of like asperger's and different different levels or
00:57:34areas of asperger's and and autism you know uh it's quickly you know like where asperger's or even
00:57:41autism it's easier to say oh you've got addd or adhd or or uh um or other remarks that have been made
00:57:52but i can tell a difference when someone has that or when someone has a mild form of asperger's or if
00:57:59they have a certain form of um autism it's really incredible because people who are definitely have
00:58:08have certain uh aspects of autism can be extremely high functioning yeah yeah yeah there is a um
00:58:18there's a misunderstanding to their intentions to where uh someone with asperger's or even
00:58:26with autism can come across narcissistic self-absorbed um misunderstood as though
00:58:35they seem to not care about others um but i can't speak too much on it you know to say like
00:58:42because everyone is different uh because really you have to get to know the person because there
00:58:49are people out there that are just absolutely clever and deviant that have no problem playing
00:58:55the victim they have no problem acting like they i mean there are people that are so intellectually
00:59:02imbalanced that they will fake a mental illness and i've seen this yeah i've witnessed this wow
00:59:13any that have turned on you oh of course yeah yeah yeah of course yeah of course challenging
00:59:19yeah if you could revisit one past project with the wisdom you have today what would you change
00:59:32um i don't know if there's a project in particular because i always feel like every project i'm learning
00:59:43something that i applied to the next going back yeah i mean you could you could pick apart many many
00:59:51projects i think i think i i i i wish that i had assigned myself
01:00:00the task of realizing my own my own own documentaries earlier i mean it's not to say that i haven't you know
01:00:12i mean travel channel yes i i you know created all these shows i've done work for all different
01:00:17non-profits where you know they send me off to um you know uganda where they're trying to prevent uh
01:00:25retinopathy a prematurity of retinopathy and and you know i i would document the doctors there and
01:00:32i mean i've done all different kinds of of of projects but i i just so early in my career i was you know
01:00:40attracted to documentary filmmaking and so so why didn't i work on my own vision for so long i think
01:00:49that you know if i look back i i i wish that i had given myself i don't know the license to to just
01:00:59focus in on something um complete the project which again is why this one was so important to me
01:01:06because it's like gosh carrie you know are you ever gonna do your are you really are you gonna do
01:01:11your own someday you know so that that was uh that was a huge task like good job you you finished it and
01:01:19you know the festivals and everything else you know okay but you know you you met somebody who
01:01:25entrusted in you you you know you were aligned in the mission and you completed it and that's
01:01:33that in itself is is is a is a wonderful accomplishment i think for all filmmakers
01:01:38you know it's it's such an undertaking documentaries are such labors of love
01:01:44uh and where they're gonna go we don't always know but you know the fact is that we birthed it
01:01:51and it'll have an impact and it'll find its audience so yeah i try not to regret too much but
01:01:57i'm sure there's many more regrets i could bring up but uh as far as projects yeah i think i think all
01:02:06of them are just putting another feather in my hat and learn something new and mistakes you know like
01:02:14god dang it i forgot to press record you know that's we've all done that right i mean all of you
01:02:22out there i know some of you have even after decades of being in the business i mean even even when i was
01:02:29out in the mesa that that one scene where uh he's sleeping next to the mayor in the fall oh i remember
01:02:36that scene yeah and i you know i was recording that for a long time and i looked down at my camera like
01:02:44no you didn't you know i had to record seriously but yes and so i you know like oh god just keep
01:02:53sleeping you know so like oh that that still happens to the best of us thank god the horse didn't catch
01:03:01your heartbeat changed you yeah i know exactly
01:03:04carrie thank you so much carrie letterer film producer director of wild horses at the door
01:03:14premiering at brave maker film festival and i hope you get an award out of this
01:03:21thank you hey just screening it in a theater is you know i was told that's very rare so i'm just
01:03:29it has to be it has to be it is theater thank you so much you are welcome any closing thoughts at all
01:03:37anything you want to leave us with uh you know come come uh check out wild well let's see i i i've got
01:03:46a facebook page wild horses at the door it's on instagram and on my my website uh carrier pigeon
01:03:54productions there's a page for wild horses at the door and i've got screenings on there as well so
01:04:01stay tuned and and hopefully we'll we'll come to a theater or you know community library near you
01:04:10and eventually yes it will be online so thanks so much steve for having me this was really fun
01:04:16i i'm excited thank you and thank you for being even closer even more now with me
01:04:22uh after today's uh getting this all put together and everything and uh you getting to listen to
01:04:29my personal life accidentally because i accidentally sent you that recording
01:04:33see i have that effect on people you do i i i was at peace about it i was like wait a minute
01:04:44oh she's not gonna care yeah it's scary yeah come on we're old friends
01:04:52thank you so much thank you thank you to everyone who's tuned in alive on air with steven cuoco on
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01:05:51love love well and if all else fails don't go towards medication don't be drinking just get yourself a
01:06:01horse allow that horse to to synchronize with your heartbeat and just relax take care everyone
01:06:11this is where i gotta remember to like you said turning things on i gotta make sure i turn everything
01:06:31off
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