Nikhil Koparkar - Film and TV Composer: Wheel of Time season3 - video Dailymotion

Power 98.5 Satellite Radio

Nikhil Koparkar is an award-winning composer and performing artist who creates scores and songs for film, television and gaming. He recently composed the score for Hills of Tanchico, a fan-favorite song featured in The Wheel of Time Season 3.  Nikhil is an SCL Award nominee for his work on the psychological horror film Dead Whisper (Vertical Entertainment), which had its limited theatrical and soundtrack release on July 5, 2024, followed by VOD on July 9. For this score, Nikhil also received the SESAC / New Music USA Reel Change Grant in 2023.  His recent credits include composing the official theme for League of Legends’ Lunar New Year campaign, which is featured in-game and across Riot Games’ global content and events. Nikhil has collaborated extensively with Lorne Balfe’s 14th Street Music, writing over 250 cues across 11 television series. Notable projects include Amazon’s The Wheel of Time Season 2 (where he also served as project lead), Netflix’s Life On Our Planet, HBO’s His Dark Materials, and Hulu’s Victoria’s Secret: Angels & Demons.  Beyond scoring for film and TV, Nikhil composed the official theme for Peru’s CUSCO Futbol Club (2020), recorded across four continents and incorporating traditional Peruvian instruments. In addition to composing, Nikhil contributes to score production for acclaimed projects such as Amazon’s Homecoming and the Oscar-nominated score for Minari by Emile Mosseri.

Transcript

00:00:00Hi, this is Dan Aykroyd.

00:00:05He's progressive.

00:00:06He's beautiful.

00:00:07He's thoughtful.

00:00:08He's intelligent.

00:00:09He's powerful.

00:00:10He's positive.

00:00:11He is Steven Cuoco on Power 98.5 Satellite Radio.

00:00:15You're listening to Power 98.5, powered by United Angels Dream, your number one resource

00:00:21for public relations, entertainment, and multimedia.

00:00:25Contact them today at unitedangelsdream.com.

00:00:29We don't play the social game.

00:00:31We are social.

00:00:33Power 98.5.

00:00:34Empowering listeners from the US to the UK, live on air with Steven Cuoco.

00:00:43How'd you like to be part of all of that, Nikhil?

00:00:48Oh, it's wonderful.

00:00:50I love it.

00:00:51I'm here for it.

00:00:54Welcome to everyone who's listening to Live on Air with Steven Cuoco on Power 98.5 Satellite

00:01:00Radio.

00:01:01This episode is going to air on BizTalkRadio, biztalkradio.com, biztv.com, but we want you

00:01:09here first, home with us here on Power 98.5.

00:01:15Download the app.

00:01:16Tune in on Alexa.

00:01:17We are available on Apple Music, Power 98.5.

00:01:19You can stream 24-7 on Apple Music and more, as well as Live FM Radio, MyTuner, Streama,

00:01:29Anchor.

00:01:30Anchor?

00:01:31Yeah.

00:01:32Odyssey.

00:01:33I've got to brag about that one.

00:01:34And more.

00:01:35But why go anywhere else when you can be here?

00:01:39Download the app.

00:01:40Once again, we're available on Alexa and Apple Music.

00:01:45I hope you're enjoying this music, Nikhil.

00:01:47We've got Nikhil, co-Parker, co-Parker.

00:01:51Perfect.

00:01:52I was not going to mess that up.

00:01:55He is a composer.

00:01:57He's also part of the music department.

00:01:59He's done extraordinary projects, which many of you may have heard.

00:02:04We're talking about Dead Whisper, his dark materials.

00:02:07I was, I got into two seasons of that.

00:02:10The Wheel of Time.

00:02:12You're getting a lot of good recognition on that right now.

00:02:15There's a lot of hot topics on this, right, Nikhil?

00:02:18Yeah.

00:02:19It's been amazing.

00:02:20You know, it was a dream project for me.

00:02:21So getting to be a part of season two and three was really just wonderful as being a

00:02:26fan of the books and then getting to write this original song for season three.

00:02:30So it's been a wild ride.

00:02:32Do we go back to one of your most recent interviews, Nikhil, where you got the first book and then

00:02:40you immediately went out and got the second book?

00:02:42Wasn't that the Wheel of Time?

00:02:45That's correct.

00:02:46Yeah, it was 2019.

00:02:47And I was an avid reader when I was a kid and I kind of fell off of it in college.

00:02:51I kind of rediscovered it in my early thirties.

00:02:54And I remember in 2019, I saw that the Wheel of Time was being developed by Amazon and

00:03:00I thought, how would it, how cool would it be to marry the love of books with the love

00:03:04of music, you know?

00:03:06And so I thought, hey, I could research the source material, see if it's for me and maybe

00:03:10pitch for it, you know, just kind of a moonshot, I guess you could say.

00:03:14And sometimes it's not as important about the outcome as it is who it makes you become

00:03:20in preparation for that outcome.

00:03:22So there was kind of more of a mental exercise for me.

00:03:24So I read the first book, loved it, immediately got the second one.

00:03:28And I remember around the kind of the finale of the second one, where so many huge things

00:03:33happened, kind of ignited my love of fantasy as a genre, and then also how much musical

00:03:38world building could play a role in that.

00:03:40So I really wanted to write a love letter, a musical love letter that encapsulated what

00:03:45I felt reading that book.

00:03:47And you know, and then I recorded a theme with the Budapest Orchestra, which is no small

00:03:52feat at the time, it was, you know, a significant chunk of savings, but what could go wrong,

00:03:57right?

00:03:58And, you know, it was important to me to just try to put myself out there in the most me

00:04:03way possible, I guess you could say, you know, you work on different projects of all kinds

00:04:09of genres and things.

00:04:10And I wanted to do something that felt more like what the kinds of stuff I would want

00:04:13to work on.

00:04:15And at that time, the fans kind of took it and ran with it.

00:04:19They were very excited about it.

00:04:21And tour.com, Tours, the publisher of the novels, wrote an article about the piece.

00:04:26And then it came to the attention of Lauren Balfe, who saw that video and gave me the

00:04:31chance of a lifetime to join his team, music team and work on a bunch of projects like

00:04:36the ones you mentioned.

00:04:37And then also, of course, the Wheel of Time.

00:04:39So it's really a full circle moment, a play on words there, I guess you could say.

00:04:43I'm happy for you.

00:04:44I really am.

00:04:45Once again, for those that are tuning in, we've got Nikhil Koparkar.

00:04:49He is a composer and you're many more things than just a composer, right, Nikhil?

00:04:56Yeah, I actually, you know, before I jumped into the world of media scoring, I was a songwriter

00:05:01as well.

00:05:02So I played in a bunch of bands.

00:05:03I'd started one as well called Dream Alive.

00:05:05And I was writing a lot of as a songwriter, you know, and performing that music and singing

00:05:11that music.

00:05:12And I loved songwriting, but I kind of realized that I love writing a picture and I love working

00:05:17with different types of teams.

00:05:18You know, I love the collaborative aspect of that.

00:05:21And each team is a different culture, you know, and each team has a different why for

00:05:25why they choose to do a project.

00:05:28So it's fun to kind of get enveloped in that.

00:05:31And so I realized I wanted to write every day for the rest of my life.

00:05:34And so that was became the goal.

00:05:35And media scoring was a great way to kind of do that.

00:05:38And then, you know, with the Wheel of Time season three and this Hills of Tanchico song,

00:05:40it's kind of a way of marrying both loves in a way.

00:05:44And it reminded me that there really are no detours in life.

00:05:48It's just you're adding more to the arsenal of what makes you you.

00:05:52And hopefully you can express that in the future things.

00:05:55You work often in your home studio or do you have another studio?

00:05:59Yeah, oftentimes I work in my home studio.

00:06:01And that's the, you know, the luxury of being able to even work on bigger teams.

00:06:06You know, you can collaborate a lot remotely, which is really nice.

00:06:09So a lot of the times I'll record orchestras overseas, you know, work with the Budapest

00:06:13Scoring Orchestra quite a bit.

00:06:15Like I mentioned, Macedonia has a fantastic strings ensemble I've worked with there for

00:06:21Dead Whisper.

00:06:22And, you know, there's wonderful musicians all over the world.

00:06:25So that's a really great part of it.

00:06:27And even on Lauren's team, you know, we were recording in Abbey Road, but oftentimes those

00:06:30things were happening remotely.

00:06:32We had to do things very fast.

00:06:34And so that allows for that collaborative aspect, though, I will say I love being in

00:06:38person the most.

00:06:41And I love being able to be with the musicians and say, hey, why don't we try this idea and

00:06:45bounce off them in real time?

00:06:47So oftentimes, like when I was working on a song for it was a theme for this game franchise

00:06:53called League of Legends, which is a Riot Games franchise.

00:06:58We recorded in L.A. because they had the budget to do that.

00:07:00You know, it's always very expensive to record in L.A., but we recorded at the Barbra Streisand

00:07:04stage on the Sony lot.

00:07:06And, you know, being in the room with the players is a completely different experience.

00:07:10So if I could choose my favorite, it would be being in a studio.

00:07:15But of course, the home studio is a great way for germinating those ideas and then getting

00:07:19to realize them wherever in the world.

00:07:21The best thing about a home studio, Nikhil, is you don't have to share a bathroom with

00:07:26the general public.

00:07:27That's very true.

00:07:29That's very true.

00:07:30And actually, I have this this area of the unit is kind of closed off, so it has its

00:07:36own bathroom and it's pretty great.

00:07:38So I love that.

00:07:41I really do. That's awesome.

00:07:42Yeah.

00:07:43And and it is.

00:07:46Oh, I'm all about privacy of bathrooms.

00:07:48I don't mess around. I mean that like when I like I take having my own bathroom extremely

00:07:53seriously.

00:07:54Totally. Totally.

00:07:55Yeah. Yeah.

00:07:56Absolutely.

00:07:57October 5th, 2020, we're going to go back.

00:08:00You you said, I feel fortunate enough to have moved around a lot when I was younger.

00:08:07This constant adjustment to new people and environments, as well as the desire to make

00:08:12a career in the music industry as I got older, has made taking risks is a consistent part

00:08:21of my daily life.

00:08:23Is it still that way?

00:08:24Five years later?

00:08:26Yeah, actually.

00:08:27And in fact, the pursuit of finding ways to make myself uncomfortable continues.

00:08:32You know, I think through this Emmys campaign that I've been doing for the Hills of

00:08:37Tanchico, I have found myself constantly put in situations that are new to me.

00:08:42You know, working on Lauren's team was every day was a new situation.

00:08:46You know, we were working on five shows at the same time, oftentimes.

00:08:49So you never really knew what you were going to get.

00:08:51But I always feel alive when I don't quite know what's around the corner.

00:08:55And, you know, I remember when those first few moves that we made as a kid and I

00:08:59remember how it felt like I was leaving friends behind or, you know, I was really

00:09:04enjoying that school and this and that.

00:09:07And I started to look at it.

00:09:08I remember there was a kind of a moment around when I was going to move to

00:09:11California, actually right in the beginning of ninth grade.

00:09:14And I remember feeling this feeling that this is a new start.

00:09:18I can do I can I can present whatever aspect of myself I want to.

00:09:23You know, it's like it's a completely different way of being.

00:09:27And and that was like a huge thing for me.

00:09:29It's like, oh, you can reinvent yourself at any moment.

00:09:32There's a chance to change your inner self and your outer self at any point.

00:09:38And I think like music is a great vehicle for that, too.

00:09:41So it's been wonderful.

00:09:43I mean, it's been a real great joy in my career that you kind of never know what's

00:09:48going to happen. And and that can be a good or bad thing.

00:09:50Of course, there's a lot of uncertainty in our career, especially now with the film

00:09:55and TV landscape changing so much.

00:09:57But I think, you know, the success in this career is really developing a healthy

00:10:01relationship with uncertainty.

00:10:02So I am very grateful that I had those experiences earlier on when I could

00:10:07probably digest them and integrate them into my life.

00:10:11You said the best antidote to that uncertainty I found is commitment to an

00:10:18ideal, a standard one holds for themselves and their career and the price that comes

00:10:24with it. Yeah, to continue, it has been the wellspring by which, especially in

00:10:32recent years, I can draw inspiration from or take solace in the question I've

00:10:38started asking myself recently is what kind of person do I need to become to be

00:10:45ready when an opportunity arises?

00:10:49Mm hmm. How do you feel knowing you said that?

00:10:53Yeah, you know, I truly I remember probably around when I switched to media

00:10:59scoring, I did a lot of soul searching, you know, as one does when you're trying

00:11:04something completely new.

00:11:05And I started to realize that that aspect of.

00:11:09You know, if you commit to something and I felt the same way in playing in bands, if

00:11:13you commit to a show, a performance and you give it your all in that moment, whether

00:11:17there's three people in the audience or three hundred, whatever, it doesn't matter.

00:11:21It it's a little bit less about the outward outcome and it's a little bit more about

00:11:27how you feel inside and that inside strength gives you the ability to overcome

00:11:32whatever obstacles and also, you know, rise to the occasion.

00:11:36So so when I'd worked on that Wheel of Time pitch, I really think I got better as a

00:11:41writer because of that, you know, kind of crazy.

00:11:46Swing for the fences, the thing that I present presented myself with, I guess you

00:11:51could say, and then when I joined Lauren's team, you know, it was a huge learning

00:11:54curve. I even the the type of software I was using was different.

00:11:59I was suddenly working on a big team on bigger projects and I'd never done any of

00:12:04that before. And it's about, you know, I kind of made me realize, oh, again, it

00:12:09carries carries forth where you're rising to the occasion of what what kind of person

00:12:14you want to be for those opportunities.

00:12:16So I feel in now even working on my own projects, you know, post working on Lauren's

00:12:22team, it's been the same thing that kind of got me ready for becoming the kind of

00:12:26person hopefully that can delegate work and lead a team of my own.

00:12:31And so I think everything follows that way, you know.

00:12:35So it's I I feel fortunate to have learning, you know, learning those lessons years

00:12:41ago, and I feel like they're even more poignant now or they're they have a deeper

00:12:46meaning to me even now.

00:12:47So if that makes sense, it does make sense.

00:12:52I got a couple of computers going here and I moved the keyboard somewhere else, so

00:12:57I'm not able to pull up here.

00:12:59So I got to pull up here.

00:13:01Oh, got it.

00:13:04So let's go ahead.

00:13:06I need to move you over here.

00:13:09All right, here we go.

00:13:14In Dead Whisper, you used a Thai instrument called the I forgive me, cane is a cane or

00:13:21cane can can evoke a haunting atmosphere.

00:13:27What was the most unexpected sound or technique?

00:13:31You incorporated into the score and how did it shape the film's emotional depth?

00:13:38That's a wonderful question, actually, I you know, I've been very into this idea of

00:13:44musical world building, like I mentioned, you know, through working on other projects

00:13:48pre Wheel of Time.

00:13:49And then, of course, with the Wheel of Time, you're creating a world from scratch.

00:13:52And I thought, hey, that would be really cool to, you know, fantasy is an obvious

00:13:56choice for that. But I thought to myself, how can I bring that spirit into other

00:14:01projects, things that are not necessarily obvious that you would want to adopt that

00:14:06approach with the psychological horror film?

00:14:08It takes place in Cape Cod.

00:14:09So not really what you think about when you think about Thai instruments, you know.

00:14:13But I thought to myself, there is a feeling of the wind and the ocean.

00:14:18And there's this particular mysterious island that calls to Elliot Campbell, the main

00:14:24character. And he finds himself there and he's kind of given the chance to reunite with

00:14:29his, you know, deceased child at the cost of his soul.

00:14:33And there's this almost this play on the siren song calling him to the island.

00:14:38And so I thought to myself and I was talking to the filmmaker, wonderful filmmaker,

00:14:42Connor Susi, about a direction we could take musically.

00:14:46And we thought about the obvious choices.

00:14:48Obvious choice would be a vocal element, siren song, you know.

00:14:52So we were like, what's the non-obvious choice?

00:14:54And I was scrolling on Instagram as one does.

00:14:57And finally, the doom scrolling actually paid off because I found this instrument that

00:15:03I'd never seen before. And I promptly decided to order it from Thailand, not knowing how

00:15:08to play a note. You know, I don't play any bamboo wind instruments myself, but I

00:15:13thought, you know, this is musical world building, so it doesn't have to be correct.

00:15:17It just has to be right. And if I could evoke that sound of the wind and the ocean,

00:15:21that's kind of what it reminded me of, then I would be doing justice to the film.

00:15:25So I ordered this thing, got a chance to play some rudimentary phrases, and I tried a

00:15:30few phrases that felt almost they're like echoing on themselves, you know, repeating

00:15:35that almost feels like the siren song.

00:15:37And if you look at earlier in the film where Elliot Campbell is kind of processing this

00:15:42grief for his child and trying to move on, you hear it in it's more of a siren song

00:15:47form of this island calling to him as he gets into this fever dream that is the island

00:15:53and this entity that lives on the island and feeds on his grief is kind of giving him this

00:15:58nightmare, hallucinating scenario.

00:16:02I used some effects to kind of process and mangle that same sound.

00:16:06So instead of sounding pure, it just sounds very twisted.

00:16:09And it started to create like a soundscape that almost feels alien.

00:16:15You know, it's like this island is completely out of time and space.

00:16:18So it seems like that would actually present a lot of pressure to try to score something

00:16:23like that. But actually, it opens up the toolbox even further because you get a chance to

00:16:28play with instruments that have been played the same for hundreds or thousands of years

00:16:32and take them out of their context and bring them into something completely new.

00:16:37And now you can you have a whole universe of sounds to play with.

00:16:39So that was kind of the approach.

00:16:42And that ended up being a big crux of the film, not only just that instrument, but then

00:16:48also that approach. Let's take something pure and twist it over time, make it start to

00:16:52feel like it's a little dead and a little bit out of time.

00:16:55You know, it's almost like when he sees the island at first, he sees it in its glory.

00:17:01And as he starts to realize what this place is all about, he starts to see it for what

00:17:06it really is, dead, lifeless.

00:17:07And and I tried to make the music echo that.

00:17:11And so the can was actually one of the, you know, several instances where I got a chance

00:17:17to use the instruments to.

00:17:20To to use to try to use that kind of an approach in scoring, he didn't put it back in a

00:17:26box, you still have it out.

00:17:27Oh, yeah, I still have it right over there.

00:17:30I don't know if you can see it on the camera here, but it's right there by the bookshelf.

00:17:34Yeah. Yeah.

00:17:36So it's great.

00:17:38All right, next question, I got so many for you, I was like, oh, please lay it on me.

00:17:45And what's a moment in your career where you felt completely out of your depth and how

00:17:52did you push through it?

00:17:56You know, that's a good question.

00:17:58I would say probably the one that I felt the most out of my depth was working on Lauren's

00:18:03team at the very beginning.

00:18:05You know, it's such a huge amount to digest.

00:18:07And with Lauren's team, he gave us a lot of agency.

00:18:11And if we worked on a cue piece of music for film or TV, we were responsible for taking

00:18:16it to the end, whether it be music, editing it to picture.

00:18:19If there's a new edit that came in, working with the music editor to make sure that it's

00:18:24following exactly the directions of what the production wanted, digesting the notes,

00:18:28implementing the notes and then getting it approved and then attending the recording

00:18:33sessions, attending the mixed sessions, all that.

00:18:36So that was one of the many instances in working on that team that I felt out of my

00:18:42league. And then, you know, going further than that, when I worked on the Wheel of Time

00:18:47series, since I knew the books, when I would send Lauren cues for approval, I would

00:18:52mention, hey, you know, I can already tell that the next season is going to tease some

00:18:57story beats that are going to be very important for the characters.

00:19:01Maybe we could tease that musically because these are some specific character themes.

00:19:06Maybe we could kind of foreshadow that musically could be kind of fun.

00:19:10And about two episodes in, he put me in charge of the music team, which was kind of a

00:19:16huge jump up in responsibility.

00:19:19So in addition to writing music on the show, I was also delegating work to the other

00:19:23composers, deciding what gets recorded live, working with production, you know,

00:19:28attending sessions like that, meetings and things.

00:19:32So it constantly felt like I was a little out of my league.

00:19:36But I think the first couple of months of working on that team, it felt like you're just

00:19:41kind of hanging on for dear life a little bit.

00:19:43And as you start to get your bearings, you know, you kind of start to realize like, oh, I

00:19:48already did more than I thought I could, you know, and then you kind of just go, OK, I'm

00:19:53not going to focus on the long term of this.

00:19:56I'm going to focus on the day.

00:19:57I'm going to focus on the moment.

00:19:59And, you know, it kind of helped me be more present in the process.

00:20:02I think it's very easy when there's a million things going on to get overwhelmed by it.

00:20:08And I think it really helped me to have those experiences because when it starts to feel

00:20:12like a constant, your only way through is to kind of shrink your world a little bit to

00:20:19the moment and use that as the kind of grounding thing to to go forward with

00:20:28whatever with whatever comes.

00:20:30So I would say that was probably the best learning experience and kind of how I got

00:20:35through that. So it was just really a one moment at a time realization, I guess you

00:20:40could say. One moment at a time during the wheel of time.

00:20:44Exactly. And a full circle moment.

00:20:47Full circle moment like that.

00:20:53If you could compose a soundtrack for any historical event, what would it be and

00:20:58why? Man, that is a great question.

00:21:03Now, do you mean like a like a documentary of how you received it, however you

00:21:08received that question?

00:21:11That is a great question. OK, so if it was like a documentary or a biopic or something

00:21:15like that, I think, you know, this is probably also because I love the music of the

00:21:21late 60s and I always felt like the kind of mushroom cloud of consciousness, cultural

00:21:29change, social change, political change and musical change was just so interesting.

00:21:35I would have loved to have witnessed it, but since I couldn't, the second best thing

00:21:39would be to score it, you know.

00:21:42So I think it would be wonderful to get to work on a project like that and use some of

00:21:48you know, like a lot of the band stuff that I was doing prior to scoring was actually

00:21:52very influenced by that type of music.

00:21:54So, you know, it would be another full circle moment, I think, to get to work on

00:22:00something of that time period.

00:22:01I think that would be just wonderful.

00:22:03That's solid in my head.

00:22:05Seriously, in my head.

00:22:07Yeah. Yeah.

00:22:08Oh, great.

00:22:09I set that who my biological mother married was a hippie.

00:22:15He even looked like John Lennon.

00:22:17Little. Yeah. Like John Lennon.

00:22:18So I'm like, that's why I saw it in my head, because it's like, yeah, I'm not of the

00:22:2360s, but I grew up in an environment that felt like the 60s.

00:22:27Sure, sure.

00:22:30I've watched enough, enough biopics and documentaries to almost feel like I

00:22:35experienced the 60s, even if I didn't.

00:22:38Are you a little bit happy you weren't there or do you wish you were there?

00:22:44I think it would have been an interest, I guess, if there was a time I like being

00:22:48where I am now, I think when I was younger, I definitely felt more like being

00:22:52somewhere else, you know, there's always that fantasy of, oh, if only I could

00:22:56travel back to that time and like be a part of that.

00:23:00I think that would be wonderful.

00:23:01I am happy where I am now.

00:23:02But I will say, if a time machine ever came along, I would not hesitate to be one

00:23:08of the first to know you were from twenty, twenty five because the clothing back

00:23:13then would look perfect on you.

00:23:14Oh, exactly.

00:23:15Exactly. I just went thrift stores, store shopping the other day and a few things

00:23:20that probably would work perfectly for that.

00:23:22So, you know, and the hair is probably a dead giveaway.

00:23:25So I'm in or posted on Instagram.

00:23:28I want to I got to absolutely.

00:23:34What's a piece of music that has profoundly influenced your work but might

00:23:40surprise people?

00:23:42Hmm.

00:23:45That is a great question.

00:23:50I told you before this, we were what I was going to be coming at you with.

00:23:54Yeah. Oh, I love this.

00:23:55It's great. I'm loving these questions, too, because, you know, we can really dive

00:23:59deep with this stuff, which is fun.

00:24:02I would say I remember when I was about two and a half years old and it was one of

00:24:07my earliest core memories is learning to work my dad's cassette machine.

00:24:13And I would play Vangelis is kind of greatest hits album or something over and

00:24:18over again. And I saw music in colors at that time.

00:24:21I would say, oh, that's the blue song.

00:24:23That's the yellow song.

00:24:24And and I remember that having a profound influence on me, you know, and I think

00:24:29his music is so transportive and it still feels out of time itself, you know.

00:24:36I would say that was a huge influence on me.

00:24:39I would say probably.

00:24:42You know, I grew up watching a lot of movies with scores by John Williams, you

00:24:47know, and I remember when Jurassic Park came out in the theaters and watching that

00:24:51and what that felt like, you know, you kind of felt like you're witnessing a moment

00:24:56in time, you know, it's just such an incredible movie.

00:24:59And that score is just unbelievable.

00:25:01I would say probably my favorite band of all time is the Beatles.

00:25:05And I think philosophically, I always have been inspired by them, how they were

00:25:10always pushing boundaries based on what they were observing about the world with

00:25:15each album and each song.

00:25:16You know, nothing was the same.

00:25:18It was always evolving.

00:25:19So I would say as far as an inspiration from, you know, kind of an approach

00:25:25standpoint, constantly trying to reinvent yourself or constantly trying to like.

00:25:30Push the envelope of creativity as much as possible in your own way, like that's

00:25:35something that is very important to me, and I think, you know, with any score that I

00:25:39work on, it doesn't sound like any of that music, but I think maybe the approach is

00:25:44something that has become a big part of why I enjoy this so much, you know, it's

00:25:50like it's it's always fresh, you know, there's that Zen idea of approaching things

00:25:56like a beginner, and I try to do that as much as possible.

00:26:00You know, it's like I never want to feel like I know too much about any given thing.

00:26:06I want I always want to feel like there's more around the next corner to explore.

00:26:11So see how you'll ever be bored with anything, honestly.

00:26:14Yeah.

00:26:16Now, you're you're you're I would be surprised, Nikhil, if they did not

00:26:21reference you as some sort of genius.

00:26:24Oh, wow.

00:26:25Your category.

00:26:26I mean, look what you do.

00:26:27Remember, I told you about frequency, your ability.

00:26:30Yeah, yeah.

00:26:32I think, you know, it's like I think about curiosity a lot.

00:26:35You know, it's it's very easy when working in a in an industry that has you're writing

00:26:41the music is is a huge and most important part about it.

00:26:46But of course, maintaining longevity in a career, your day to day doesn't end up

00:26:51always being all about the music.

00:26:53Like with this campaigning, I'm going to events every day and, you know, stuff like

00:26:57that. It's other aspects of it are a huge part.

00:27:00So to me, that is a grounding moment for me is staying curious always.

00:27:06You know, what can I learn today?

00:27:07What can I integrate into this thing that I'm doing?

00:27:11And if if that is the North Star, then it's harder to be bored at any given moment, you

00:27:17know, because you always know you as soon as you feel like you know something, then

00:27:22you peer above the that, you know, you you you get to the top of a mountain, you look

00:27:28around and you realize there's so many more mountains to climb.

00:27:32So or and you could also realize you found the best mountain out of all the other

00:27:37mountains you just saw.

00:27:39Yeah, yeah, true.

00:27:42Very true. Yeah.

00:27:45You've worked across film, television and gaming, which medium challenges

00:27:52challenges you the most and why?

00:27:57And if we don't use the word challenge, we can use either challenge or inspire.

00:28:01So sure, you've worked across film, television and gaming, which medium challenges or

00:28:07inspires you the most creatively and why?

00:28:13So that is a great question and actually a hard one to answer, because I would say and

00:28:19I'm trying not to like provide a cop out answer for this, but I really do feel that they

00:28:23inspire me for very different reasons.

00:28:25I'll talk a little bit about the challenges maybe, but I will say for film, it's such a

00:28:30contained experience and you get to go on a two hour journey with these characters and

00:28:36you can create themes that weave in and out and you it's a singular experience, you know,

00:28:40so I love that aspect of it.

00:28:43It feels contained as an album when you listen to a soundtrack album with TV.

00:28:47It is it is such a juggernaut in that you're balancing multiple seasons, character

00:28:54arcs that go for multiple seasons.

00:28:55So you're not only responsible for the episode, you're responsible for the season arc and

00:29:00the series arc. So you're constantly keeping all these things in mind.

00:29:03And I think that presents a lot of challenges.

00:29:05Of course, there's the time constraints on TV are insane.

00:29:09You know, when I was writing the Hails of Tanchiko song, I had the morning to write and

00:29:1395 percent of that demo appears in the final version that was released.

00:29:19So, you know, that just gives you an idea of how fast those things move.

00:29:24But it presents the opportunity of going even deeper into thematic scoring.

00:29:29So I love that aspect of it.

00:29:30Games are the slowest of a process which can present both challenges and opportunities,

00:29:35actually, because, you know, there's that idea of having too much time on something.

00:29:40And that's something I struggle with sometimes.

00:29:42But with games, you can really just go out of the box completely.

00:29:46You're not really beholden to as much of the structural things in terms of how music

00:29:51should function. And I think game developers are really willing to take risks on that,

00:29:56which is awesome to see.

00:29:57You know, you're not necessarily going to see very risky scores with, of course, some

00:30:02exceptions. But like a lot of the big studio releases, it's not going to be something

00:30:06completely out of left field, whereas in games you will see that a bit more.

00:30:11And the challenges can sometimes be you're on a project for three years, four years.

00:30:15So you have way more time to sit with the music, which could be beneficial, but also

00:30:20present its own challenges.

00:30:21So I guess I'm both inspired and challenged by all three for very different reasons.

00:30:27I am really enjoying right now, though, TV and its potential for character exploration.

00:30:35You know, it's the same reason why I love books so much is their long form.

00:30:38They require an investment of time.

00:30:41And I think that time allows you to see the characters differently.

00:30:47And also approach music differently.

00:30:50I like that. I like that.

00:30:51The investment in time is perfect.

00:30:56I like that. That's perfectly said.

00:30:59Thank you. Yeah, it's you know, it's I feel it's a lot about how much you engage or how

00:31:04much one engages with the material that also determines what you get out of it, you know,

00:31:10and with certain mediums that force you to engage more in order to get the

00:31:16greatness that lies within, then it's a different kind of payoff, you know.

00:31:25Don't mind me, I have to do my little sets over here.

00:31:29Oh, yeah. Talk radio.

00:31:31We have to have a commercial break, so I got my last one going right now.

00:31:37Awesome.

00:31:40That's great.

00:31:42What's a sound or musical motif that you've always wanted to use but haven't found the right

00:31:49project for it yet?

00:31:53Hmm.

00:31:54That's a good question.

00:31:57Gosh, that's a tough one, actually, because, you know, I

00:32:01whenever I approach a project, I try to approach things with a clean slate a little bit.

00:32:06For example, I I honestly would have never imagined using that time instrument in a horror

00:32:11film until I was in the thick of it, you know, and I'm sure there's a lot of instruments that I

00:32:16don't know much about yet or haven't explored yet that I could incorporate.

00:32:20I think if there was one that I would love to someday use, it would be what I heard used in

00:32:26Wheel of Time, I think season one more extensively.

00:32:29And I would love to use it on one of my own scores is and I tried to use it for Dead

00:32:34Whisper, but it didn't end up working out.

00:32:36Scheduling wise at that time is a Carnix, which is an ancient Celtic war horn, and it's six

00:32:42feet tall and you book an auditorium to record it.

00:32:46You know, there's only a few players in the world who possess this instrument and also can

00:32:50record it. And I guess to that point, I would love to go further into the past.

00:32:57When I was working on life, life on our planet, we had a bone flutes, we had all sorts of

00:33:03ancient instruments.

00:33:04And I think that would be really cool to play around with is to find instruments that are

00:33:09primordial. You know, it's like the first instruments that people were using.

00:33:14And what would that feel like in the context of a score?

00:33:16I think that the history of that.

00:33:20And bringing that flavor to to a score, whether it be to make it feel ancient or to, again,

00:33:27completely recontextualize it, it's like when you start with a sound that nobody else has,

00:33:32you're going to have so much a wider variety of things to play with that that nobody's ever

00:33:39heard before. That really excites me.

00:33:42It really excites me.

00:33:44I like that. And I'm sure that insurance probably what, tens of thousands of dollars, I'm

00:33:49assuming.

00:33:50I'm sure. Yeah, I'm sure they are not cheap, you know, especially when you get to ones

00:33:56that are harder to find.

00:33:57Or I remember there was a there was an instrument called the wheel harp, which was kind

00:34:01of it almost looks like a wheel.

00:34:04And it's got this specific almost glass organ type of a sound to it.

00:34:09And there was an instrument maker in California, I think, that that made them doesn't make

00:34:15them anymore. So they're like they don't even exist anymore.

00:34:17So we were going to try to see if we could record that for the Dead Whisper score.

00:34:21Didn't work out. But yeah, I think, you know, being able to investigate instruments that

00:34:27are harder to find and create new sounds out of that would be really cool.

00:34:31And then I guess project specific, I guess it will remain to be seen.

00:34:34You know, if I work on something and I start from a blank slate, probably I found that

00:34:39life has a way of figuring itself out, you know, like the opportunity presents itself

00:34:44to find the right instrument for that.

00:34:46When you're not going to let it down, you may not put it down.

00:34:50Yeah, exactly. I'll probably just have a whole collection behind me because we're going

00:34:55to be having you back on again.

00:34:56Oh, yeah, it would be lovely.

00:34:58What's the most unconventional collaboration you ever had and how did it shape your

00:35:06music? Oh, man.

00:35:09Yeah, I actually I can immediately think of one right off the bat.

00:35:13And this kind of was the seed by which really most of my career has sprung.

00:35:19And that was in 2016 I met who's now become a dear friend, Kunal Gunjal, who's a

00:35:26fantastic Santur player.

00:35:27Santur is like an Indian Persian hammered dulcimer that's, you know, from the

00:35:32Mesopotamia region, you know, like a very old instrument.

00:35:36And his teacher was Bandichev Kumar Sharma, who was a legendary Santur player, has

00:35:43passed away a couple of years ago, unfortunately.

00:35:45But he took the instrument from the Indian folk music and brought it into mainstream

00:35:52in the 60s, I think kind of right around when Indian instruments started becoming, you

00:35:58know, in the cultural consciousness of the West, you know, Ravi Shankar and the Beatles

00:36:03and all that. And he kind of changed the way the instrument was played and adapted it

00:36:08for film scores and things like that.

00:36:10So cut to 2016, this disciple of Bandichev Kumar Sharma, my friend Kunal Gunjal, he

00:36:19said, you know, I love Indian classical music, but I always wanted to experiment with

00:36:24this instrument. It's harder to do that in Indian classical because the rules are so

00:36:28rigid, you know, and the tradition is so rigid.

00:36:31And at that time, I was thinking to myself, you know, I want to experiment.

00:36:34I was just leaving this band.

00:36:35I was trying to figure out my next things and I want to just try stuff for the fun of

00:36:39it. And so he came over for a jam session.

00:36:42We played together.

00:36:44I was on piano.

00:36:45He was on santoor, completely random jam session that culminated in this wonderful

00:36:52album, actually, that we recorded together.

00:36:54One of the pieces came out within 15 minutes of that jam session and he was playing

00:36:59Indian rags, rags or like scales, you know, and with the santoor and I was using

00:37:05completely like orchestral Western chords underneath it and it created something

00:37:10different, you know, and that got me thinking, hey, you know, instead of fusion music

00:37:14where you hear Western instruments playing Eastern scales or something like that,

00:37:19what if we took an Eastern instrument or South Asian instrument and

00:37:23recontextualized it, brought it as a section in the orchestra?

00:37:27So you have strings, brass, woodwinds, piano, maybe and santoor.

00:37:31What would that sound like?

00:37:32And so we did a album called Nature of All Things and we released that, I think,

00:37:36twenty seventeen or twenty eighteen and recorded the strings in New York.

00:37:41We recorded the santoor and piano at a studio here in L.A.

00:37:45and and that really whet my appetite for using non-obvious choices with

00:37:50instruments, blending multicultural influences.

00:37:53And then I actually worked on a fantasy film that was inspired by Asian and Indian

00:37:59mythology. And the reason I got that film was because she heard that album.

00:38:06The reason why I was able to do that wheel of time pitch was because I worked on

00:38:09that fantasy film like six months prior and everything is kind of followed from that

00:38:14point, you know, so it was a very unlikely collaboration.

00:38:17But I started to realize also it's like it's important to sometimes just listen to

00:38:21your gut. It's not really about what is this thing going to be?

00:38:23It's about what does it feel like now?

00:38:25It doesn't matter. You know, the thing the thing that is going to be is going to

00:38:28figure itself out. But if you do it with the joy, if you do it with the just the

00:38:33enjoyment of the moment, hey, this is fun.

00:38:35Let's just see where it goes. Who cares?

00:38:37And then interesting things happen at the very least.

00:38:40And that's a good place to be.

00:38:42So I feel I feel I'm just so fortunate to Kunal, you know, that we met and that we

00:38:47got a chance to that he was down to go on a crazy journey with me.

00:38:52I like that. I felt your passion.

00:38:58I felt your memory.

00:39:01Have a way with your inflection.

00:39:03It moves delicately.

00:39:07Thank you. You're welcome.

00:39:09And yet the expression is.

00:39:12Speaks volumes.

00:39:15You're you're an amazing human being, I have to say that you're just an amazing

00:39:20human being. Thanks so much, Stephen.

00:39:23Honestly, I really appreciate it.

00:39:24And right back at you, you know, honestly, like when we were chatting earlier this

00:39:28week, I just had such a wonderful conversation with you.

00:39:30So I was very excited to do this.

00:39:33It went deep.

00:39:34Yeah, we did some heavy excavating as good conversations often do.

00:39:40Yes. All right.

00:39:43Let's see here.

00:39:44What do we have remaining?

00:39:52You said that music should not step over the scene, expand on that.

00:40:00Sure. I think, you know.

00:40:04Working in film and television has illustrated for me, and I think anyone who

00:40:09works in film and television realizes how important the dialogue really is.

00:40:14Like if you think of a song, the dialogue is the lead vocal, you know, you don't

00:40:19want to step on the lead vocal.

00:40:21Right. If the actor is delivering an incredible performance, sometimes it's as

00:40:25important not to have music in there as it is to have music.

00:40:28It's a conscious choice because it's about the storytelling craft.

00:40:32And so as a composer, you always want to be cognizant of.

00:40:38Delivering the music in a way that will guide the scene along without feeling

00:40:44manipulative. Without feeling like it's trying to do its own thing while the

00:40:50dialogue is happening, you never want to step on those performances, you just want

00:40:54to elevate them as much as you can.

00:40:57However, it's an interesting balance, isn't it?

00:40:59Because you listen to some of the greatest scores of all time and you could hum

00:41:03those tunes oftentimes, you know, they are melodies that stand apart from the

00:41:08score. But if you think about any or sorry, from the film or television show, but

00:41:14if you think about any of those soundtrack albums, they sound great as a

00:41:17listening experience. But when you hear them in the context of the film, they

00:41:20weave in and out in a way that you're not going to have a bombastic theme when

00:41:25there's a like an important dialogue moment.

00:41:27You know, even John Williams, who writes very dense orchestral music, and, you

00:41:33know, he will find ways to kind of skirt around those even when it's wall to wall

00:41:37music. You think about Star Wars, you know, there's there's poignant moments also

00:41:43in it as much as there is the big moments.

00:41:46And it's that dynamic arc, just like in a dynamic arc in a film story, the dynamic

00:41:52arc of the musical score is what really allows the big moments to feel big and the

00:41:57small moments to feel small.

00:41:59And so it's a constant dance, you know, and that's that's a that's a technical

00:42:04art form, I think, in itself.

00:42:06You know, it is one thing to write great music for film and television.

00:42:11And there's it's there's another thing to write great music in general.

00:42:15And it's two different skill sets, I think.

00:42:17At least that's what I've found.

00:42:23How do you create more immersion?

00:42:26And how do you create more immersion where it applies to film?

00:42:33Basically, my question is, is and you were touching on that in your last statement.

00:42:39How how do we become immersed in what we're listening to yet not get too lost in

00:42:48the dialogue to be able to be mindful of what we're hearing, of how to understand the

00:42:53impact or the nuances of the music and that scene means, whether it's action, it's

00:43:01comedy, it's drama, it's it's heart wrenching.

00:43:07Do you see where I'm going with this question?

00:43:09How do we keep that homeostasis of what we see?

00:43:13And what we're hearing at the same time by understanding what the entire language is

00:43:22conveying.

00:43:24Yeah, absolutely.

00:43:25I think I think there's a lot of different ways one could approach that for me

00:43:30personally, I always think about a film as having two stories.

00:43:34There's the story you see on screen, but there's also the subtext.

00:43:38And the idea is, do we want to score what's happening on screen?

00:43:41Oftentimes not.

00:43:42Oftentimes you want to score the subtext.

00:43:44So if there's two characters talking, they're saying something, let's say, loving to each

00:43:49other. Do we want to score that aspect of it or do we want to score the tension beneath

00:43:54those words? Is there something complex between their relationship?

00:43:58And so oftentimes maybe one will have character themes or themes that relate to these

00:44:05relationships. When you have a theme that feels solid, you can recontextualize it in so

00:44:09many different ways. You can have it come on strong in a bigger moment.

00:44:13You can have it be very soft or just allude to it, maybe just two or three notes from

00:44:17that theme and then just kind of buried in a wash of other stuff.

00:44:22So, you know, it's the idea of almost creating musical Easter eggs that the audience is

00:44:28not necessarily aware of these things.

00:44:30You know, maybe a musician or composer could pick that out or filmmaker, you know, if

00:44:35they're really doing a deep dive into it.

00:44:37But the audience is not necessarily noticing it, but they feel it.

00:44:43And I think they feel it because when you do it right from a technical standpoint, but

00:44:49then also from an emotional standpoint, you're allowing them to feel the moment and not

00:44:55manipulating them to feel the moment.

00:44:56You know, it's like, oh, this is a happy moment, happy music here, sad moment, sad

00:45:01music here. But life is so much more complex and nuanced than that.

00:45:04So I think it's important to score the nuance rather than trying to have some sort of a

00:45:11broad emotion because it's just not that simple.

00:45:15So that's my personal approach to these things.

00:45:18But musical Easter eggs are always fun because, you know, as a as a composer, you can

00:45:23kind of dive into that a little bit.

00:45:25That's a perfect answer.

00:45:26And I like the analogy of the Easter egg.

00:45:31Yeah, absolutely.

00:45:34I always think of, you know, what the audience sees is the Wizard of Oz, you know, and

00:45:39what we see is the old guy frantically pushing levers in the background.

00:45:43You know, that's kind of our job.

00:45:47Silent films did well at one time.

00:45:51How has composers shaped telling a story?

00:45:59Yeah, it's interesting, I mean, you know, when you look at those old silent films, there

00:46:02were wall to wall music.

00:46:04Oftentimes it would be piano, usually.

00:46:06Right. And a composer was recording some stuff and playing along with the picture.

00:46:12And then it just started getting more sophisticated as storytelling started becoming more

00:46:17sophisticated. You have dialogue, like you mentioned, and then you have different story

00:46:23arcs. Maybe you're diving deeper into characters.

00:46:26And so what you needed became more nuanced.

00:46:28Then you look at the 60s and the 70s and scoring changed yet again.

00:46:32You know, you started to see maybe music that had been prewritten.

00:46:36You think of 2001 Space Odyssey, you know, and some of the score score in that was

00:46:41really prewritten orchestral music.

00:46:43Right. That worked just really well for those scenes.

00:46:46Then you have John Williams and the golden era of scoring, you know, the first golden

00:46:50era of scoring. And a lot of that was like thematic writing.

00:46:54Like, let's have some strong themes for characters, leitmotifs that have them weaving

00:46:59in and out and make it more orchestral based.

00:47:01Now you look at scores now and it's, you know, once Hans Zimmer came on the scene and

00:47:05was blending experimental and electronic scoring techniques with orchestral, changing

00:47:10the way teams work together and then also changing the way score functions in a film.

00:47:16I think it's a constant evolving process with the nuances and the needs of the medium.

00:47:22So like now I'm I'm talking to composers and I've I've I've witnessed myself in my own

00:47:27projects that, you know, as much as you're writing the picture, oftentimes you're writing

00:47:31the script, too. And I've worked on stuff where I wrote to script and that music was

00:47:36played on set for the actors to create more of an integral experience, you know, then

00:47:41the actors can feel what the music is going to be like as they perform their parts.

00:47:47That's a different approach, but it's a very collaborative approach, you know, and it

00:47:52allows the music to be a slightly different role because sometimes that stuff is music

00:47:57edited to picture afterwards.

00:47:59So that that almost makes the music feel like a setting or a character rather than a

00:48:04theme for the character.

00:48:06Does that make sense? So you can you can have music now function in so many more forms.

00:48:11And I'd be very interested to see now as technology continues to evolve and some of

00:48:16these, you know, you're seeing adaptations of games in TV, you're seeing games influence

00:48:22TV, TV influence games, you know, so on and so forth.

00:48:25There's going to be more of an integration of these art forms.

00:48:28And I'm sure the musical needs and scoring will continue to evolve from there.

00:48:34So I think, you know, it's just interesting to think that it's only been like 100 years,

00:48:38you know, but so much has happened in that time.

00:48:41And then you look at the last 20 years and so much has happened in that time, you know,

00:48:46and it's just going to continue like that, I think.

00:48:48So that's exciting.

00:48:50I agree.

00:48:56Let's say you're you're an independent composer, we know that you can be independent

00:49:01and you can also be part of a team from your perspective, Nikhil, how important is it to

00:49:07forge your own path no matter what?

00:49:11I think, honestly, it's the most important thing one can do.

00:49:15That's just my personal opinion.

00:49:17And I think it's becoming more important as we go.

00:49:19Like I remember maybe 10 years ago, the common advice was get to write in all the

00:49:25genres so you can kind of tackle anything, any project that comes your way.

00:49:28And I think there's still some truth to that.

00:49:30But also the composers that have the most enduring music or work on some of the most

00:49:37interesting projects are usually the ones that have a unique voice.

00:49:40And even if they're working on a variety of genres, as composers are want to do, they're

00:49:45often bringing their own flair to whatever project they're working on.

00:49:50You really can't do that until you cultivate your own inner voice.

00:49:53And of course, when you first start off composing or songwriting or what have you,

00:49:57you're going to sound like other people.

00:49:58And that's part of the process.

00:49:59That's part of the journey. And it's like it's almost I think of it like, you know,

00:50:04marble, right, like a marble carving or something.

00:50:07And you're kind of chiseling away at this creative process until what's left is you,

00:50:14you know, and so that takes hundreds, thousands of hours.

00:50:19You just have to keep doing it until you start weaning off those influences and you

00:50:23start to figure out what your own thing is.

00:50:26And for me, I kind of realized I don't want to approach music from a musician's

00:50:32perspective only because I think there's so many different art forms and there's so

00:50:36many different kind of philosophical counterpoints to that.

00:50:40And I want to approach things from different angles because that's how interesting

00:50:44things happen. You know, I thought about that whole nature of all things experience.

00:50:48And to me, that was approaching something from a different angle.

00:50:51And I, as I mentioned, you know, at the very beginning of our conversation, I love to

00:50:55read and I find that that is a huge key to my imagination, whether it be reading

00:51:00nonfiction books or fiction books, you know, fantasy, sci-fi, horror, historical

00:51:03fiction. I love that stuff.

00:51:05And oftentimes that is what drives me musically, actually, because it's storytelling

00:51:10in another form. It requires engagement.

00:51:13You get to understand characters in a different way.

00:51:16So that was kind of me trying to forge my own path, I guess you could say, was to

00:51:22approach both the the philosophical idea behind why I want to score and what I want

00:51:29to score, you know, in regards to the books and then also trying to experiment to try

00:51:35to find my own style.

00:51:36You know, I love thematic scoring.

00:51:37I want to push it in my own way.

00:51:39And and that has been extraordinarily helpful.

00:51:42Like even when I joined Lauren's team, which is, you know, when you join a music

00:51:45team, oftentimes the misconception is, oh, you're all going to sound the same or you're

00:51:49going to sound like that one composer or something.

00:51:52And that couldn't be further from the truth.

00:51:54Honestly, Lauren had hired us for our individual voices.

00:51:58And had I not tried to cultivate that before, during and after, I think that probably

00:52:04opportunity wouldn't have even happened, you know.

00:52:07And I think of the filmmakers I've worked with since and they usually hire me for my

00:52:12own style and they're not going to, you know, not everyone's going to hire one for

00:52:17everything. And that's fine.

00:52:18It shouldn't be that way.

00:52:20You know, it should be that you're hopefully writing the stuff you want to write and

00:52:26you're aligning with the opportunities that feel.

00:52:30Like they work well with that, that thing that you love to do.

00:52:34So that's my my long winded answer to your question there.

00:52:44How does the village come together?

00:52:48In complete verbal and nonverbal partnership, when we think about composing a music.

00:52:56That's a great question, and like you said, you know, it takes a village with these types

00:53:01of things. One thinks of music by, you know, and that almost seems to insinuate that

00:53:07it's a singular person involved.

00:53:09But then you look at the credits after that card appears and you look at the music team

00:53:13and it's vast. You know, you have orchestrators, you have people writing additional

00:53:18music. Additional music is like maybe the lead composer is the visionary behind the

00:53:23score, writes the main themes, maybe some of the important cues.

00:53:26Then the additional musician composers are writing some of the other cues or

00:53:30recontextualizing those themes in other scenes and stuff like that.

00:53:34You have orchestrators, you have orchestral players or soloists or synth programmers or

00:53:41all sorts of people involved at every stage of the musical process.

00:53:44So it's as much a technical exercise as it is a creative one.

00:53:49And I think that's the biggest learning experience for me over the last few years is how

00:53:52does that work on a larger scale?

00:53:54You know, you think of a show like The Wheel of Time, you're not only musical world

00:53:58building, you're writing all these character themes, you have all this vast lore of

00:54:03thousands of years of fantasy history in this particular series.

00:54:08In the books, there were twenty eight hundred characters, if you believe it.

00:54:10So, you know, it's a huge amount of it's its own world, you know, and it would be

00:54:16impossible for one person to do that themselves.

00:54:19And then, of course, composers are working on multiple projects at a time.

00:54:22So how do you do that?

00:54:24Well, I think there's kind of that hierarchy, you know, the lead composers often, like I

00:54:29said, the visionary and working on the broad strokes, you know, direction for the thing,

00:54:35some of the technical stuff and the nitty gritty will be done by additional musicians.

00:54:39Then once those things are approved by production, then there'll be orchestrators

00:54:43coming in and kind of taking that music and recontextualizing it for the page so the

00:54:48players could play it.

00:54:49You know, they decide what what budget do we have for recording this?

00:54:54What should we make a bigger orchestral moment?

00:54:56Maybe here we only have a violin player.

00:54:58We don't need all that much.

00:55:00And it would work well with the budget.

00:55:02Then you have the contractor hiring the musicians and getting the studio together.

00:55:06You know, you have all these people involved.

00:55:09So I feel very I feel glad to see because I don't think it was always the case.

00:55:14And even five years ago, I don't think it was always the case that these larger

00:55:18composers would work and have these big teams, but they wouldn't necessarily

00:55:21acknowledge the teams.

00:55:24And now you're starting to see a lot more of the bigger composers acknowledging

00:55:29those teams, giving their fellow cohorts who are helping to bring these

00:55:33projects across the finish line more responsibility, more credit.

00:55:38And I think that's wonderful, you know, and I know that the next generation of

00:55:41composers will continue to do that.

00:55:43You know, I speak to a lot of additional music people in various teams.

00:55:47They all say the same thing.

00:55:48It's like they want to make sure that when they have their own teams, they're

00:55:51always pushing that further that much more.

00:55:53You know, it's progressed, like I said, you know, over the last few years, but

00:55:58it's going to continue to progress.

00:55:59I think that's that's only good for the industry.

00:56:02New voices and new, new, new creative choices.

00:56:10You're going to like this one.

00:56:12Oh, yeah, I know that this is going to be important.

00:56:17The hills of Tanchico.

00:56:21You want to touch on that?

00:56:23Sure.

00:56:25So like I said, you know, I was the team lead and additional composer for season

00:56:29two of the wheel of time and season three came up and production had mentioned

00:56:33they wanted some songs for various episodes in season three, Lauren basically

00:56:39gave us the go ahead, take it and run with it.

00:56:42It's yours, you know, go for it.

00:56:43And so, again, you know, props to him for giving us the opportunity

00:56:49to do that, spread our wings.

00:56:51And so I had the hills of Tanchico as a song for myself to write.

00:56:56The lyrics were written by the writer of the episode Rami Park, and they wanted

00:57:01a piece of music to kind of work with these lyrics, lyrical ideas she had.

00:57:07It's a big character moment for Elaine, who's one of the main

00:57:09characters in the show, and it was supposed to be a musical moment.

00:57:12So it played in two different scenes and the actors were singing it and

00:57:18everything, and then it played as the end credits music as well.

00:57:22So it was kind of a huge opportunity and also responsibility.

00:57:27And of course, as TV production works, they're like, you have the morning to do

00:57:30it, so it's like, oh, and we want it to sound a bit like a sea shanty because

00:57:34that's kind of this Tanchico geographical location in the wheel of time series

00:57:39should feel a little bit like that coastal, you know?

00:57:42And also, you know, Robert Jordan, the writer, was very good at creating a

00:57:46confluence of cultures where you don't know where one ends and the other begins.

00:57:50All these things coming together, you know, for me personally, from a musical

00:57:54standpoint, and they wanted Asian influences, instruments and African

00:57:58instruments, and they basically just said, have fun.

00:58:01And so I had like four hours, I think, to write it.

00:58:04And so I just started working with the guitar and the the the cadence of the

00:58:10lyrics. And I thought, OK, I'm going to make something the North Star of this.

00:58:14What will it be? I figured it's a bar song.

00:58:17It should feel like a sea shanty almost.

00:58:20And so I'll make that the North Star and I'll use the other instruments like the

00:58:24Asian-African instruments to kind of pepper through to support

00:58:28that, you know, could be more of a supportive role.

00:58:32And that way you could sing it in a bar.

00:58:33But it also has these instruments where people go, what was that?

00:58:36I don't know what that is.

00:58:37The important thing was to not make it feel like, oh, I'm in Asia now, I'm in

00:58:40Africa now, like it should feel like I'm in the Wheel of Time universe.

00:58:43What is that instrument?

00:58:45You know, and oftentimes that was recontextualizing those instruments,

00:58:49blending them together.

00:58:50So you can't really differentiate.

00:58:53But they were a lot of times supportive role.

00:58:56So the way I approached it was I played a melodic idea I'd created for Hills

00:59:02of Tanchico over and over again, like 50 times in a row until I just got the

00:59:07notes exactly where I wanted them.

00:59:09So I figured it's roots to branches.

00:59:10You get that right, then everything can follow around that.

00:59:13So I sent them the demo and it was basically almost everything that you hear

00:59:19in the final product was in that demo, save for the vocals.

00:59:22I just recorded myself, you know, doing all the harmonies and stuff just to give

00:59:26them an idea of what it would sound like.

00:59:28I was recording the guitar here.

00:59:29I was doing stomps and claps here on the microphone, you know, a bunch of times.

00:59:34And so they liked it and they said, you know, oh, maybe they gave me like one or

00:59:39two notes. It was approved in two days, I think.

00:59:41And then it was time for the actors to record like a week later.

00:59:44And so they were based in Prague at the time because they were filming.

00:59:48And so I did a Zoom call at like 4 a.m.

00:59:51You know, Prague time is, I think, noon or something.

00:59:54And the actors came in one by one.

00:59:56Kira Coveney was the lead vocalist who plays Elaine in the show, and she was just

01:00:01a joy to work with. She was so good, you know, and she sang her parts.

01:00:05And it was great because we had to kind of structure the song.

01:00:09Oh, Elaine sounds a bit more tentative at first.

01:00:11Then she finds her footing midway through the song.

01:00:14So we're trying to kind of coach the actors through their performances, say, OK,

01:00:18let's try to make this feel a bit more confident midway through a bit more

01:00:22tentative here. So you can really feel that arc, the dynamic arc of her journey

01:00:27in the song. And then Donald Finn, who is plays Matt in the show, he is has a

01:00:34musical theater background. So he just nailed it.

01:00:36You know, 15 minutes he did the thing in two takes, which is incredible.

01:00:40And then Alexander Willem, who plays Tom Maryland in the show.

01:00:44And he's kind of the bard, the gleeman, they call him.

01:00:47And he plays the guitar in the in the in the scene.

01:00:51And so that stuff was pre-recorded and then they choreographed everything to the song.

01:00:56And and then the episode got released, I think, April 3rd.

01:01:01And the song kind of had a viral moment on TikTok.

01:01:03I think it has like two million streams on TikTok and close to seven hundred fifty

01:01:09thousand on streaming platforms.

01:01:10And I got I got fans making hills of Tanshiko T-shirts and sending to me them to

01:01:16me and by email. And and, you know, they were sending me videos of them singing, doing

01:01:21like flash mob singalongs at various conventions.

01:01:25It was a dream come true.

01:01:26You know, it's like I love the books.

01:01:27And as a fellow fan to get the chance to write in the world and make it feel like it's

01:01:33in world and for fans to tell me, oh, it does justice to the spirit of the books.

01:01:38That's like the greatest compliment you could possibly ask for.

01:01:41Working on a show that, you know, fans are so protective and rightfully so.

01:01:45They want it to feel like, hey, feels like what I read, you know, and that's a hard

01:01:50balance to strike. And so that was like the greatest, you know, creative feeling ever

01:01:57that that that they felt that it did justice to the books.

01:02:01So it was it was a wonderful experience, you know, a very time pressured experience, but

01:02:06sometimes not having enough time and being creatively inspired are the two best things

01:02:10to have on your side.

01:02:16I believe this I don't know if I propose this as a question, a wheel of time shows

01:02:21universe.

01:02:23How do you write something that fits in a particular world?

01:02:28Mm hmm. Yeah.

01:02:29So kind of alluding to what I was talking about with the hills of Tanshiko and this

01:02:34was something that Lauren did really well with his themes as he created something that

01:02:37felt like it could be contextualized in a variety of different situations.

01:02:41So keeping the themes sometimes broad, but character specific could be really good.

01:02:46That way you have leeway to, you know, reorchestrate them using different instruments

01:02:51and that kind of a thing. And to the point of instruments, I feel that, you know, like

01:02:57I mentioned before, Robert Jordan was just so good at making cultural blends.

01:03:02You know, there's a particular Shan Chen civilization in this Wheel of Time series

01:03:07that have Asian influences, but then they have almost like a Southern draw or something

01:03:12like that to their speech.

01:03:14You know, it's stuff that doesn't feel like it should combine at all.

01:03:17But that disparity actually kind of creates something interesting.

01:03:21And it's done very tastefully in a way that you don't know where that one culture ends

01:03:26and one begins. And my personal philosophy for scoring is that's the way to create the

01:03:30musical world building is then people feel like it belongs in the Wheel of Time universe,

01:03:35not in a geographical location that we would identify with.

01:03:39So that would be the first thing.

01:03:40The second thing is taking instruments like that Thai instrument I mentioned with Dead

01:03:44Whisper and recontextualizing them.

01:03:48Suddenly you have room to experiment and create sounds that are different as well.

01:03:53So that's a musical world building aspect, I think, that like one could really lean into.

01:03:58And so the Wheel of Time was a perfect exercise for doing that.

01:04:00You know, you you get a chance to really build the world from scratch alongside the

01:04:06filmmakers, right alongside production.

01:04:09And, you know, they the production had these amazing costumes, set pieces.

01:04:14The actors really did a great job nailing their roles.

01:04:17And so, you know, I think it's important for the music to also do that.

01:04:21The music department is to create something that feels like it cannot be anywhere but

01:04:27this world. You know, it should not feel like it's a fantasy world.

01:04:30It should feel like it's the Wheel of Time world.

01:04:32And not only the Wheel of Time world, but a specific geographical location is being

01:04:37referenced in the Wheel of Time world.

01:04:38So getting as granular as possible, I guess.

01:04:42And then lastly.

01:04:45Check, do I want that this one to be the last doesn't have to be the last, but what I

01:04:49have here. Yeah, yeah.

01:04:51Is it up for awards?

01:04:52The Hills of Tanchico, is that up for any awards?

01:04:57If not, do you have anything else like what's what's going on with that?

01:05:01Absolutely. Yes.

01:05:02So the Hills of Tanchico right now is under any consideration.

01:05:06Amazon submitted it on my behalf.

01:05:08So that's lovely.

01:05:10So it's been great going to events out here in L.A.

01:05:12and meeting a lot of other TV Academy members of a TV Academy member myself now.

01:05:17And so it's been really wonderful and it's been a great journey so far.

01:05:21I know there will be other awards considerations coming up probably later on this

01:05:26year that I'll be submitting it to.

01:05:28So let's see what happens.

01:05:30But, you know, I'm just I'm I'm even excited that it's a part of the conversation at

01:05:35all. You know, it's when you write something, you don't necessarily know where it's

01:05:39going to go. You do it to the best of your ability.

01:05:41And I was fortunate that I loved what I was doing in this moment because it was very

01:05:46tied to something that means a lot to me.

01:05:49And the fact that it's gotten this far is just wonderful and just along for the ride

01:05:55at this point. So congratulations.

01:05:58Thank you so much. Thank you.

01:06:02Do I want or do I have anything else worth touching on?

01:06:11We know you love to collaborate with other filmmakers and musicians, creatives.

01:06:19That you enjoy L.A., the beaches, everything's the beaches are all in driving

01:06:25distance. Oh, yeah, that's one of the great parts of I live in Sherman Oaks, which is

01:06:31kind of a valley enclave, you know?

01:06:34Yeah. Yeah. And it's great.

01:06:36I mean, it's 25 minutes to Santa Monica.

01:06:39Can't go much better than that.

01:06:40You know. I believe that's it.

01:06:46Did we cover everything?

01:06:47I think we did.

01:06:48Yeah, I feel like we really went deep, which was wonderful.

01:06:53You know, it's it's great to to get to talk to, you know, fantastic people like

01:06:59yourself, because we really get a chance to just kind of see where the conversation is

01:07:03going to go and dive in deep into this stuff.

01:07:07So I'm so grateful that you had me on, Steven.

01:07:09It's been such a joy.

01:07:11You know, it's been really, really nice chatting with you, man.

01:07:13And it's the first time in a long time I actually wrote down questions because I don't

01:07:18write down questions.

01:07:20I just I just went seriously like I had questions on a computer, but I had back to back

01:07:25questions. Oh, my gosh, that's amazing.

01:07:30Wow. I do.

01:07:31I write so fast that sometimes I'm like, what the heck did I just write?

01:07:36What is this word?

01:07:37I should know this word.

01:07:38I might not know it by my own handwriting, but I get so inspired.

01:07:42And you may go through this as a composer and a musician, Nikhil, is it flows and it

01:07:52flows so fast.

01:07:53It's like. Your hand cannot keep up.

01:07:57Yeah, yeah, totally, totally.

01:07:59Yeah, I feel that I feel the same way with music.

01:08:01You know, it's like when you're in the flow state.

01:08:03You're just kind of holding on for dear life, you know, the creativity is taking you

01:08:08places and you just have to you just have to have your antenna up and, you know, keep

01:08:13an open heart and just run.

01:08:17So I completely, completely gel with that.

01:08:20Do you teach at all?

01:08:22I mean, do you have a website you want anyone to go to to connect with you?

01:08:25You have a phenomenal Instagram.

01:08:27Where's the go to for all things?

01:08:29Sure, yeah. If you want to connect with me directly, Instagram is great.

01:08:32I'm pretty active on there.

01:08:34It's at Nikhil, N-I-K-H-I-L-K music, and then you can also find me at my website,

01:08:41NikhilKMusic.com, if you want to just be apprised of like what I'm working on and stuff

01:08:46like that. But I always love hearing from people.

01:08:49So, you know, feel free to send me a DM any time.

01:08:52And hopefully I'll be in one of your upcoming projects.

01:08:55I'm looking forward to it.

01:08:56And hopefully I'll be in one of your upcoming projects.

01:08:59I'm ready. Oh, sign me up.

01:09:02I'm in. See, I'm casting for the part.

01:09:05I had a couple interviews today.

01:09:06I just was like, I'm digging this shirt today.

01:09:08I'm like, this is a great casting shirt.

01:09:11It is a great shirt.

01:09:12Yeah. So anyone who wants to hire us, I think we're cast.

01:09:15We're cast ready because you look great.

01:09:19You got a wonderful shirt on.

01:09:20You know, we look the part.

01:09:22Yeah, yeah, exactly.

01:09:23Exactly. And we are prepared.

01:09:26Any closing thoughts in your preparation?

01:09:29Well, you know, I just want to say again, Stephen, it's just been so lovely

01:09:33exploring creativity with you today.

01:09:35And I think if if anyone hasn't gotten a chance to check out the Hills of

01:09:39Tanchico yet, it's available through Sony Music, Sony Soundtracks on the

01:09:45season three soundtrack album.

01:09:46So you can find it anywhere you listen to music.

01:09:48And I hope when you listen to it, you get a chance to, you know, digest this

01:09:53context and hear the spirit by which it was created, you know.

01:09:57And yeah, just grateful for you all listening.

01:10:00Thank you, Nikhil.

01:10:02Thank you so much, Stephen.

01:10:03Nikhil Koparkar, composer for TV, film and games.

01:10:08Still, you're still doing games.

01:10:10I am. Yeah. Yeah.

01:10:11I'm working on a couple of games right now, actually.

01:10:13There you go.

01:10:15All things power.

01:10:16Ninety eight point five.

01:10:18Download the app. Tune in on Alexa.

01:10:21If you're being a little bit stubborn and don't want to download the app, but

01:10:25you have an iPhone and Apple music, go over there and type it in a search bar.

01:10:29Power.

01:10:30Ninety eight point five.

01:10:32If you want to catch up on all the latest and greatest of this radio show, you can

01:10:37go to any one of your favorite podcast platforms and listen to these incredible

01:10:43episodes where all amazing people such as Nikhil and those that are in TV and

01:10:48sports, directing, producing.

01:10:52Reality TV and more.

01:10:55Love having you.

01:10:56Thank you for the love, the support, the encouragement.

01:11:00And I'm excited.

01:11:02I'm excited to what's what's coming up next.

01:11:05And to give that we have actor Louis Santer.

01:11:11We're going to be having him live on Saturday, May 24th at 10 a.m.

01:11:15Eastern. You all know him as Tigger from the horror series Winnie the Pooh.

01:11:23Oh, I'm scared.

01:11:26I can't wait to hear the music that's being composed for that film, Nikhil.

01:11:30That's awesome.

01:11:31Yeah.

01:11:32So once again, Louis Santer, May 24th, Saturday, 10 a.m.

01:11:37Eastern.

01:11:38That's three p.m.

01:11:39GMT time out there in the UK.

01:11:42If you have any questions for Louis, go to the website or the app.

01:11:47We have a messenger that runs 24 seven.

01:11:50You can send myself, my team a message any time if you have any questions or we may

01:11:55take some live questions or questions live during the interview as well.

01:12:00Be well, live well, smell well, shower well, dance well, do everything well and

01:12:06happy and with a smile on your face.

01:12:09Take care.

01:12:13Bye bye.

01:12:26Find us on your socials and let's connect.

Nikhil Koparkar - Film and TV Composer: Wheel of Time season3

Category

Transcript

Recommended