Sydney Kamlager-Dove Asks Witness For Strategic Risks When Protecting AI Trade Secrets

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During a House Judiciary Committee hearing prior to the Congressional recess, Rep. Sydney Kamlager-Dove (D-CA) questioned Helen Toner, Director of Strategy and Foundational Research Grants at Georgetown University Center for Security and Emerging Technology.

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00:00You noted you're going over the wire, through the wire, and wearing your armor.

00:08Isn't it true that not everyone wears the same amount of armor and that in some cases,

00:13if you wear every piece that they manufacture, you won't be able to move sufficiently fast to accomplish the mission?

00:20Yes, sir. I think that's absolutely true.

00:21I couldn't say, just because I'm going into potential armed engagements in Fallujah,

00:26that somebody who's a police officer here in D.C. should be walking around with the same amount of body armor.

00:32There's still a potential for threat engagement there, but the operating environments are different,

00:36and the requirements need to be tailored to what specifically is going to be useful both for the operating conditions and the risk.

00:41I thank the gentleman. The gentlelady from California is recognized for five minutes.

00:45Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I want to thank the ranking member.

00:48This has been a really interesting discussion, but for me, it remains abstract if we're also not talking about the available human capital

01:00and the talent investment that is needed.

01:04I have a young person getting ready to go to college.

01:07I've been talking to college students.

01:08I've actually been talking to a lot of engineers in this space who are worried about their prospects for employment

01:15and also their ability to stay here and to contribute to building our edge in AI.

01:22Mr. Chair, I would like to submit for the record a January 14, 2025 White House AI Talent Report.

01:29Without objection, so ordered.

01:30It warns that international researchers may increasingly choose to work in countries like Canada or the U.K.

01:36due to visa uncertainty, and we know that nearly 50% of non-citizen AI PhDs face immigration challenges,

01:45and many are unsure if they will even remain here.

01:48So, Mrs. Toner, if we continue to make it harder for top talent to stay,

01:53what are the strategic risks to U.S. innovation

01:56and our ability to protect those innovations through trade secrets?

02:00The biggest thing I would say is that talent is a huge asymmetric advantage for the United States.

02:07We're in systemic competition with China, and in different elements, we have different levels of advantage.

02:12The ability to attract the world's best and brightest is one of our very biggest and most asymmetric advantages over China.

02:17They are graduating more and more, PhD students, master's students, bachelor's students.

02:21They are vastly outstripping our ability to train domestic talent because their population is larger.

02:27So, if we're just using domestic talent, even if we should obviously be improving our K-12 education system,

02:32our higher education system, but we can do that all we want.

02:34If we only use domestic talent, we cannot match them.

02:37So, but we're very fortunate, the number of people, the number of really brilliant researchers and engineers

02:42who want to come to the United States, if we will only let them.

02:45So, I would say, you know, and we look at the way that that affects the U.S. AI ecosystem,

02:50two-thirds of the top AI startups had an immigrant founder.

02:54More than half of the AI talent at the PhD level in the United States is foreign-born.

02:58This is a big part of our ecosystem.

03:00We should treasure it.

03:01We should value it.

03:02We should let those people come and let them stay.

03:04Thank you so much.

03:06You know, unrelated, I was having discussions with folks in my district about breast cancer research and finding cures,

03:13and the folks that are actually at the center are immigrants.

03:16And I just kept thinking to myself, okay, and now we're demonizing this group of people

03:21that's actually working to try to figure out ways to save lives.

03:24Even Dr. Jensen just said that good researchers come from everywhere.

03:27They may come from everywhere.

03:28We want them to come here, and by golly, we want them to stay here because we want to have the edge.

03:35We cannot protect our edge in AI and cybersecurity actually without investing in the people

03:40and the institutions that are building the edge.

03:42And I'm talking about colleges and universities that are feeling like they are under attack.

03:47The faculty, the curriculum, the prospective students, and the students that are there right now.

03:52Given that between 40 and 60 percent of AI-related master's degrees and nearly 60 percent of AI PhDs

04:00have gone to non-U.S. citizens in recent years, I'm going to say to you, Professor Villasenor,

04:07what are the long-term risks to U.S. innovation if we keep pushing out the very talent that is being used to build this field?

04:18I think the risks are enormous.

04:20I think we are leaders in AI in large part because of our human capital.

04:25And as has been said by multiple people here, our human capital is people who are at least half

04:30and probably a lot more from overseas, and we need to make sure to create a climate

04:34where they feel that they can stay here and start their businesses here

04:39because the businesses they start are going to be the ones that employ 100, 1,000, 10,000 people in the future.

04:45And they're going to start those businesses somewhere, and we want it to be here.

04:47Thank you for that.

04:50As I mentioned, I know we are talking about cybersecurity and cyber threats.

04:55I'm also thinking about all of the other ways where AI can play a positive and constructive part

05:02in how we are coming up with solutions, how we are protecting our people,

05:06how we are enhancing our national security.

05:09And what I think should be most important is what folks are bringing to the table

05:17rather than what they look like or where they were born

05:20because I don't think a solution cares too much about the person who came up with it.

05:27We're interested in how we can build our competitive edge,

05:30how we can protect the folks in our country, how we can create more jobs,

05:34and how we can create an ecosystem that is both safe and sustainable, right,

05:38economically, politically, from a national security standpoint.

05:42And I'm just saying this because I'm talking to all of the young people who are graduating

05:46who want to play a role in how we are finding solutions for all of these issues,

05:51and they are scared.

05:52And we don't want folks to be scared.

05:54We want folks to feel hopeful and engaged and like they're able to work with their country

05:59on addressing some of these solutions.

06:01And with that, Mr. Chair, I yield back.

06:04I think the...

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