At today's Senate Finance Committee hearing, Sen. Ben Ray Luján (D-NM) questioned William Long, President Trump's nominee for Commissioner of the IRS.
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00:00Senator Lujan. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
00:04Mr. Long, several of my questions are yes or no's, and so just trying to help my colleagues
00:10that are going to go after me, be able to get their time as well, so appreciate your support there.
00:14Over 850 of my constituents have written in concerned that their private data is at risk
00:20after the Department of Government Efficiency sought access to sensitive IRS data systems.
00:26I'm also concerned that the State of New Mexico's bank records also could be inadvertently disclosed
00:31or doged to gain access to those systems.
00:34Mr. Long, yes or no, should the IRS commissioner have access to the integrated data retrieval system
00:42and my constituents' private taxpayer data?
00:45I think that we have to protect taxpayer data at all costs, so whatever that looks like, whatever that takes.
00:53While historically political officials, including the IRS commissioner, do not have access to this data,
00:58the law was changed after Watergate. I don't have to get into that anymore.
01:02Yes or no, do you believe the Department of Government Efficiency should have access
01:06to the integrated data retrieval system and my constituents' private taxpayer data?
01:11I don't think that anyone's taxpayer data should be released to anyone,
01:16that it doesn't need it for legitimate purposes.
01:20I appreciate that.
01:21Of the IRS.
01:22Yes or no, have you met with Ryan Wonderly, the DOGE employee that has been granted access
01:27to Treasury Department data systems?
01:30Never heard the name, no sir.
01:31I appreciate that.
01:33If people, well let me ask the question this way Mr. Long,
01:38when DOGE releases the personal tax information of any person,
01:42should that person go to prison the same way that the person that released Donald Trump's tax returns
01:47went to prison for five years?
01:48Say that again, I have a lot of trouble hearing.
01:51When DOGE releases the personal tax information of any person,
01:56should that person that released the data go to prison like the person that went,
02:02that released Donald Trump's tax returns went to prison for five years?
02:07I'm not familiar with the specific situation.
02:12So, if I'm going to follow the law wherever the law takes it.
02:18So if it's illegal, it's illegal.
02:20If not, it's not.
02:21Are you aware that someone went to prison for releasing Donald Trump's tax returns
02:24and to a few other people for five years?
02:26Is this the little John that released everybody's?
02:28Mr. Grassley is the one that asked the question.
02:30Huh?
02:31Chuck Grassley is the one that asked the question.
02:32No, I'm asking.
02:33There was an agreement when Chuck asked it.
02:34Isn't his name little John?
02:35Is this the same instance you're talking about or not?
02:38That released everybody's and went to prison for five years, is that?
02:41Yeah, the person that went to prison for five years for that
02:44and for releasing Donald Trump's tax returns.
02:46Same person?
02:47Are you aware they went to prison for five years, Billy?
02:52I'm aware that someone was sentenced to five years.
02:54Okay.
02:55I thought it was for a massive...
02:56Sure.
02:57I thought it was a...
02:58For releasing tax information.
02:59So my question is, when Doge releases tax information of my constituents or any constituents
03:04in America, should that person go to prison?
03:07If it's illegal.
03:08Well, it's illegal.
03:10Someone went to prison for doing it for Donald Trump.
03:13Should they do it for a constituent down the road that works on a dairy...
03:16It's either law or it's not.
03:17It's either legal or illegal.
03:18All right.
03:19Well, we'll move on.
03:20I hope that that's something...
03:21I'll submit it in writing so you can check with the lawyers and I'll get an answer that
03:26way.
03:27Yeah, you bet.
03:28I'll get it for you.
03:29By the way, is the person that's going to be your chief counsel in the room today?
03:30I'm sorry?
03:31Is the person that's going to be your chief lawyer, your head lawyer, your top lawyer as IRS commissioner,
03:35are they in the room today?
03:36I don't know who's going to be there.
03:39You said someone might be earlier when someone else asked a question.
03:42You don't know who it might be?
03:44I don't...
03:45All right.
03:46I'll get to that later.
03:47I don't see them.
03:48I don't think they're here, but...
03:49One of my colleagues asked a question about being able to file taxes for free directly.
03:54Yes or no, do you support the ability of Americans to file their taxes directly for
03:58free through the direct file program?
04:00That is something we discussed at length earlier and there's a lot of...
04:04That's one of the first things I want to look at, as I said earlier, is...
04:09You know, bring the evidence in and let us jury it and see...
04:13There's people on both sides of that, as you know.
04:15It's one of the hottest topics in the IRS.
04:17Let me ask the question this way.
04:18Should people...
04:19Should Americans be able to file their taxes directly for free?
04:23They should be able to get their audits done and know where their audit is.
04:28So as far as filing, I don't...
04:31A lot of people, I think, file for free now, don't they?
04:34Should people be able to file for free?
04:36If they could, sure.
04:37I mean, why would...
04:38If they have to pay for air cable, we're doing their own taxes.
04:40Why would they have to pay somebody to do them?
04:42Representative, I have other questions.
04:43I'll ask these a little bit later, sir.
04:45Billy, you and I come from small towns.
04:50We're simple folks.
04:51You're an auctioneer.
04:52I grew up on a small farm.
04:53People like it straight, man.
04:55People want to hear the truth.
04:57They just want to hear it straight.
04:58That's the relationship you and I have.
05:00When I was in the House with you, we didn't vote the same a lot.
05:03We worked on bills together, didn't we?
05:05We worked on bills together.
05:06Yeah, we worked on bills together.
05:07We always had honest conversations.
05:10You always kept your word.
05:12That's all that I'm trying to get to the bottom of.
05:15I'm the same guy I was then.
05:17That's all that I'm trying to get to the bottom of here, Representative Long.
05:21That's it.
05:22When we're talking about the IRS, my colleagues kept asking questions about,
05:28are you going to make sure someone at the IRS can pick up a phone?
05:31Well, Elon Musk and Doge say that there's going to be a 40% reduction in force.
05:37The reason no one's over there answering phones is because of Elon Musk.
05:41And President Trump let it happen.
05:43Even one of my Republican colleagues said things were better six months ago.
05:46Well, I don't know who the President was six months ago, but it wasn't Donald Trump.
05:50All I'm saying is let's be honest with folks back at home, especially the folks that live
05:55on those small towns down a dirt road that you and I both know, sir.
05:59That's all that I'm asking.
06:00I appreciate the time, Mr. Chairman.
06:01We've always had a good relationship and I appreciate it.