'Are You Aware That Someone Went To Prison For Releasing Donald Trump's Tax Returns?': Ben Ray Luján To Nom

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At today's Senate Finance Committee hearing, Sen. Ben Ray Luján (D-NM) questioned William Long, President Trump's nominee for Commissioner of the IRS.

Transcript

00:00Senator Lujan. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

00:04Mr. Long, several of my questions are yes or no's, and so just trying to help my colleagues

00:10that are going to go after me, be able to get their time as well, so appreciate your support there.

00:14Over 850 of my constituents have written in concerned that their private data is at risk

00:20after the Department of Government Efficiency sought access to sensitive IRS data systems.

00:26I'm also concerned that the State of New Mexico's bank records also could be inadvertently disclosed

00:31or doged to gain access to those systems.

00:34Mr. Long, yes or no, should the IRS commissioner have access to the integrated data retrieval system

00:42and my constituents' private taxpayer data?

00:45I think that we have to protect taxpayer data at all costs, so whatever that looks like, whatever that takes.

00:53While historically political officials, including the IRS commissioner, do not have access to this data,

00:58the law was changed after Watergate. I don't have to get into that anymore.

01:02Yes or no, do you believe the Department of Government Efficiency should have access

01:06to the integrated data retrieval system and my constituents' private taxpayer data?

01:11I don't think that anyone's taxpayer data should be released to anyone,

01:16that it doesn't need it for legitimate purposes.

01:20I appreciate that.

01:21Of the IRS.

01:22Yes or no, have you met with Ryan Wonderly, the DOGE employee that has been granted access

01:27to Treasury Department data systems?

01:30Never heard the name, no sir.

01:31I appreciate that.

01:33If people, well let me ask the question this way Mr. Long,

01:38when DOGE releases the personal tax information of any person,

01:42should that person go to prison the same way that the person that released Donald Trump's tax returns

01:47went to prison for five years?

01:48Say that again, I have a lot of trouble hearing.

01:51When DOGE releases the personal tax information of any person,

01:56should that person that released the data go to prison like the person that went,

02:02that released Donald Trump's tax returns went to prison for five years?

02:07I'm not familiar with the specific situation.

02:12So, if I'm going to follow the law wherever the law takes it.

02:18So if it's illegal, it's illegal.

02:20If not, it's not.

02:21Are you aware that someone went to prison for releasing Donald Trump's tax returns

02:24and to a few other people for five years?

02:26Is this the little John that released everybody's?

02:28Mr. Grassley is the one that asked the question.

02:30Huh?

02:31Chuck Grassley is the one that asked the question.

02:32No, I'm asking.

02:33There was an agreement when Chuck asked it.

02:34Isn't his name little John?

02:35Is this the same instance you're talking about or not?

02:38That released everybody's and went to prison for five years, is that?

02:41Yeah, the person that went to prison for five years for that

02:44and for releasing Donald Trump's tax returns.

02:46Same person?

02:47Are you aware they went to prison for five years, Billy?

02:52I'm aware that someone was sentenced to five years.

02:54Okay.

02:55I thought it was for a massive...

02:56Sure.

02:57I thought it was a...

02:58For releasing tax information.

02:59So my question is, when Doge releases tax information of my constituents or any constituents

03:04in America, should that person go to prison?

03:07If it's illegal.

03:08Well, it's illegal.

03:10Someone went to prison for doing it for Donald Trump.

03:13Should they do it for a constituent down the road that works on a dairy...

03:16It's either law or it's not.

03:17It's either legal or illegal.

03:18All right.

03:19Well, we'll move on.

03:20I hope that that's something...

03:21I'll submit it in writing so you can check with the lawyers and I'll get an answer that

03:26way.

03:27Yeah, you bet.

03:28I'll get it for you.

03:29By the way, is the person that's going to be your chief counsel in the room today?

03:30I'm sorry?

03:31Is the person that's going to be your chief lawyer, your head lawyer, your top lawyer as IRS commissioner,

03:35are they in the room today?

03:36I don't know who's going to be there.

03:39You said someone might be earlier when someone else asked a question.

03:42You don't know who it might be?

03:44I don't...

03:45All right.

03:46I'll get to that later.

03:47I don't see them.

03:48I don't think they're here, but...

03:49One of my colleagues asked a question about being able to file taxes for free directly.

03:54Yes or no, do you support the ability of Americans to file their taxes directly for

03:58free through the direct file program?

04:00That is something we discussed at length earlier and there's a lot of...

04:04That's one of the first things I want to look at, as I said earlier, is...

04:09You know, bring the evidence in and let us jury it and see...

04:13There's people on both sides of that, as you know.

04:15It's one of the hottest topics in the IRS.

04:17Let me ask the question this way.

04:18Should people...

04:19Should Americans be able to file their taxes directly for free?

04:23They should be able to get their audits done and know where their audit is.

04:28So as far as filing, I don't...

04:31A lot of people, I think, file for free now, don't they?

04:34Should people be able to file for free?

04:36If they could, sure.

04:37I mean, why would...

04:38If they have to pay for air cable, we're doing their own taxes.

04:40Why would they have to pay somebody to do them?

04:42Representative, I have other questions.

04:43I'll ask these a little bit later, sir.

04:45Billy, you and I come from small towns.

04:50We're simple folks.

04:51You're an auctioneer.

04:52I grew up on a small farm.

04:53People like it straight, man.

04:55People want to hear the truth.

04:57They just want to hear it straight.

04:58That's the relationship you and I have.

05:00When I was in the House with you, we didn't vote the same a lot.

05:03We worked on bills together, didn't we?

05:05We worked on bills together.

05:06Yeah, we worked on bills together.

05:07We always had honest conversations.

05:10You always kept your word.

05:12That's all that I'm trying to get to the bottom of.

05:15I'm the same guy I was then.

05:17That's all that I'm trying to get to the bottom of here, Representative Long.

05:21That's it.

05:22When we're talking about the IRS, my colleagues kept asking questions about,

05:28are you going to make sure someone at the IRS can pick up a phone?

05:31Well, Elon Musk and Doge say that there's going to be a 40% reduction in force.

05:37The reason no one's over there answering phones is because of Elon Musk.

05:41And President Trump let it happen.

05:43Even one of my Republican colleagues said things were better six months ago.

05:46Well, I don't know who the President was six months ago, but it wasn't Donald Trump.

05:50All I'm saying is let's be honest with folks back at home, especially the folks that live

05:55on those small towns down a dirt road that you and I both know, sir.

05:59That's all that I'm asking.

06:00I appreciate the time, Mr. Chairman.

06:01We've always had a good relationship and I appreciate it.

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