'Can You Assure Us Private Information Of Citizens Will Not Be Abused': Warner Grills Bessent On IRS

Forbes Breaking News

During a Senate Finance Committee hearing, Sen. Mark Warner (D-VA) questioned Treasury Sec. Scott Bessent about the IRS use of taxpayer data, and the impact of the Big, Beautiful Bill's cuts.

Transcript

00:00Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Secretary. Always good to see you. Thank you for your service and

00:04your busy travel schedule. You know if it's me, I'm going to raise an issue that I share with a

00:12lot of folks on this committee, but particularly my friend, the chair, around CDFIs. You know,

00:18Senator Crapo, who is the co-chair of the CDFI caucus, you know, broadly bipartisan. We got

00:2428 senators, equal number Ds and Rs. You know, this should be a no-brainer, and I appreciate

00:31in private and in these testimonies that you reaffirm the values of CDFIs. So I was more

00:39than a little bit surprised, since we get an eight-to-one leverage off of every federal dollar

00:43that goes into this public-private partnership, when the administration's fiscal year 26 budget

00:50seeks to cut the CDFI programs by about, by over 50 percent, number one. And at the same

00:57time, the department seems to be slow-walking the deployment of the existing 25 funds, since

01:0575 percent of them have not been, of the appropriated friends, have been actually obligated and spent

01:15out. So first question is, should be a really easy no-brainer. Can you go ahead and commit,

01:22yes or no, that the administration will follow the law and go ahead and obligate the unspent

01:2875 percent of the fiscal year 25 CDFI funds? Senator, this is the first I heard of it. I will

01:37commit to having an answer to you. I just would, I would just say, listen, I have great respect for

01:44you, as we know. It's against the law to withhold appropriated funds. You've been supportive of

01:49this. I'll even, if we need to, I can get the chairman to nudge you a little bit as well,

01:54but, you know, it is concerning to me that 75 percent of the funds. This is the first I've

02:00heard of it. I've consistently stated that CDFI. No, you've been, you've been great. So let me just

02:04go to. We will have an answer to you by the beginning of next week. Okay. And Senator Warner's

02:09right. That's my next question, if I had one. Thank you. So let's go to the 26 fiscal year

02:16budget, where you, again, you're cutting CDFI fund by over 50 percent. And I guess, I don't get it.

02:23These are eight to one leverage funds. Every federal dollar get a great leverage return in the private

02:29sector. You know, there was a review by your, which was fine, of CDFI and how they were going or not was

02:37going. And, you know, your department has affirmed to both Senator Crapo and myself and all of our

02:42colleagues that the CDFI fund programs are statutorily sound. So if they're statutorily sound

02:51and they got an eight to one return on every federal dollar in terms of affecting underserved

02:59communities, why are we cutting the whole program by 50 percent in fiscal year 26?

03:05Yeah. So, Senator, I understand the buy bars and support. We have created a new hundred million

03:13award program for rural communities. So I hope using that, we can rebuild the CD.

03:20Well, I just, I want to ask you to take a look, because I know about the rural program,

03:24but, and I support rural CFIs, but there are suburban needs, there are urban needs. And I just really

03:30think, and I know you support what Senator Crapo and I and others do, this eight to one leverage.

03:34I hope you will go back and take a fresh look at that. I think this is one of the areas where

03:40there is huge bipartisan support and we ought to not walk away. And I'm grateful for your

03:45willingness to take a look at that as well. I want to move to another one that we've talked

03:50about. I think one of the things about our system, and we all know we need ways to improve

03:57taxpayer compliance and make things better to the IRS. But I think our whole system works on voluntary

04:06compliance. And we've got about 85 percent of our citizens pay their taxes on their own. I think

04:15that's a lot contingent upon their trust that their personal data is not going to be manipulated or used

04:23elsewhere. So I've raised this with you, and the numbers have written letters on this. We've been

04:29hugely concerned about the Doge Boys coming in and potentially accessing this information.

04:37And I can tell you, I hear from taxpayers regularly in Virginia who are afraid about whether they should

04:41go ahead and work with IRS going forward. We wrote to you in April. We wrote to the Acting Commissioner

04:49Falkender on this issue, and he basically said nothing to see here. So this notion that data is going to be

04:58protected, but at the same time, the IRS Doge Boys came up here and at the staff level briefed about the fact that

05:05they are creating these tools to suck out information. And my just couple last comments, I've actually

05:13put a bill in to try to increase the penalties on misuse of that private information. But can you again

05:21in front of us assure us that the private information of citizens that will get us that 85 percent

05:27voluntary compliance will not be abused in terms of the Doge process of sucking out this IRS information?

05:33So, Senator, what you're referring to is 6103 of the IRS code, which ensures taxpayer privacy. And

05:43as I have said, some enthusiastic people, I think, had the motto, move fast and break things. At Treasury,

05:53we move deliberately and fix things. And we have made sure that any access is compliant. And we are,

06:03I repeatedly said, collections, privacy, and customer service. And on the privacy aspect, as you know, there was a

06:12leak in the previous administration through a contractor who is now in jail. I can't remember whether he was fined five or

06:19$10,000. We do not know the terms of his plea deal. But I would support an increase in both the monetary

06:28penalty and the jail time. Absolutely. And I, we make, we work together on my bill, last one of my times I've run. But there

06:37are huge concerns, at least in my state, that these Doge boys are sucking that information out. And I think you'd find

06:44in individual conversation with other senators, this is not unique to Virginia. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

06:49Mr. Chairman.

Category

Transcript

Recommended