At today's Senate Finance Committee hearing, Sen. Ron Wyden (D-OR) questioned William Long, President Trump's nominee for Commissioner of the IRS.
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00:00Senator White. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman and colleagues, let me just stipulate for purposes of this morning that this witness is a very entertaining individual. That's not what is at issue this morning. What's at issue are the facts, and that's what I want to go through with you, Mr. Long.
00:19After leaving the Congress, you made $65,000 referring your friends to tax promoters who claimed that they acquired income tax credits issued to a Native American tribe and then sold these credits to investors. There's a problem. The IRS said in March that the credits do not exist. They're fake. They are a scam.
00:44Now, you're asking to be put in charge of the IRS, and the IRS confirms that these aren't real. Tell the committee, do you believe these so-called tribal tax credits actually exist?
01:00Thank you for the question. My only involvement in this matter, like I've said numerous times in the written correspondence back and forth with members of the committee, was to connect interested friends of mine,
01:13not robocall, not robocall, not paying kids $25 an hour to call, but just friends, if they had any interest, then I would say, do you want to get on a Zoom? And I was never on the Zoom.
01:24That's not my question. My question is, do you believe that these so-called tribal tax credits actually exist? That's yes or no?
01:33I do. I can't answer yes or no because I do not know. I think the jury's still out on that. I know since 2022 they've been accepting them. So now they claim that they're not. They haven't been. So I think that all this is going to play out. And I want to have it investigated just as you do. I know you're very interested in this subject. I am too.
01:55Well, I released a recording of an investor call on the scheme last week. One person on the call said they had sold $20 million worth of credits and they'd all been rejected by the IRS. So can you name a single Native American tribe that you or any other promoter acquired these tribal tax credits from?
02:18I worked through capital edge strategies. I didn't work through, I've never talked to anybody at White River. I don't even know anybody at White River. And I don't have any way to know who the tribe is even.
02:34Well, most of your experience with tax involves selling tax shelters that don't exist for a Native American tribe that you can't name. And that's what I'm troubled by. So let's go now
02:47to the question of pay to play. In the past year you made $65,000 referring clients to promoters of what appears to be this fraudulent tribal tax credit.
03:00The president announced your nomination on December 4th. Within a matter of weeks, that same tribal tax credit group of promoters contributed $165,000 to your old campaign, even though you left office years ago.
03:17You then transferred the money from the campaign to your pocket. After you were nominated to be IRS commissioner, who did you talk with to solicit those $165,000 in donations?
03:30You know as well as I do that anytime you're dealing with the FEC, you have to follow FEC guidelines. And that's exactly what I did all the way through.
03:39I want to know who you talked with. And you have to report these things. And it comes out exactly if I thought something was wrong with it, I sure wouldn't know.
03:49Congressman, money doesn't just fall out of the sky. You had to talk to somebody. So who did you talk to about the $165,000? And if it's relevant?
03:59Everyone that I talked to and everyone that I dealt with or didn't talk to was FEC compliant, sir.
04:06Can we get a list of those you talked to?
04:09I gave it all. I gave everything to the FEC. So the FEC, everything we did was compliant with their regulations.
04:15So you just expect us to believe that the money just fell out of the sky and it showed up in your campaign treasury.
04:21I just find that a little bit implausible. And let's go on to the next one. Promoting the employee retention tax credit.
04:31We talked about your experience selling tribal tax credits, this gimmick. Now let's talk about your other tax experience.
04:38Since 2023, you've been paid as a referral agent for employee retention tax credit promoters.
04:44You stated on a YouTube video that everybody qualifies for the employee retention tax credit.
04:51And you urged listeners to ignore CPAs who said they didn't qualify.
04:56Do you really think everybody qualifies?
04:59If you listen to that video, I hate to correct you, but I didn't say everyone qualifies.
05:04I said virtually everyone qualifies, meaning that most people, virtually, most people, virtually is in there.
05:10I listened to it the other day to make sure.
05:12So basically, overwhelmingly, everybody qualifies. You want to quibble about it?
05:18I think this is wrong. And that's what I'm troubled by.
05:21You voted for it. I voted for it. We did.
05:23I voted for it when we all, during the heart of the COVID period,
05:28were trying to take employers and employees and get them some help.
05:32This problem, which we learned about from the commissioner, took place after COVID receded.
05:38And that's why we're so troubled by the fraud. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
05:43I had very well heard by the Senate National Social Security Council.
05:47Thank you, Mr. Chairman.