'We must reduce our dependency against pesticides in French agriculture and across the EU'

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00:00We can speak now to a politician for the Green Party Europe Ecology.

00:03He's also current director and spokesman of the NGO Generation Futur

00:08and member of the European Board of the Pesticide Action Network.

00:12Mr. François Villered, thanks so much for your time in joining us here on France 24.

00:16Can I start simply by asking you, these particular pesticides

00:20currently being debated by the French Parliament,

00:23what exactly are they, when were they banned and how dangerous are they?

00:26Yes, France banned all neonicotinoids back in 2018.

00:32In Europe, not all of them are banned, so that's where the problem lies.

00:37France considered that acetamiprid, for example, is dangerous for bees,

00:43all types of bees, including wild bees, which the European authorities don't share.

00:50Is that not ultimately the problem here, is that pesticides cross borders?

00:55I mean, they don't just stop along or, you know, lines of borders.

01:00And the fact is that if France bans them, but Germany doesn't, for example,

01:03it is unfair on the farmers.

01:07Yes, but, you know, when an active substance is authorised in Europe,

01:11not every country is obliged to use it.

01:14There are huge differences in terms of number of pesticides authorised.

01:17For example, France is the country in Europe where that has the largest number of chemical pesticides allowed.

01:26So, but there are differences between countries.

01:29It's like that.

01:30The problem is a problem, an economical problem, in fact,

01:34because we spotted that the price paid to beetroot growers is lower in France compared to Germany or Belgium.

01:43So, you know, you could have an increase of about 10 percent just to have the same price as the price paid in Germany,

01:52for example, and they wouldn't need any other insecticide as acetamiprid.

01:57So, you know, it's not the environment that can be, you know, harmed to have more yield.

02:04There are other means to increase the income of farmers, as you know,

02:09just aligning the price paid to French farmers compared to the Belgium or Dutch or German farmers.

02:15OK, so that answers one of the farmers' demands.

02:18But they also say that they actually wouldn't, you know,

02:21it's putting the sovereignty of French produce into danger.

02:24What do you say to that?

02:25Oh, well, you know, France is exporting about half of its sugar

02:31because we produce so much beetroots, sugar beetroots,

02:36that we export 50 percent, about 50 percent of our own production.

02:39So it's not a matter of sovereignty at all, you know.

02:43This is not a good argument.

02:46Are there other pesticides then?

02:49You say France is one of the highest use of pesticides.

02:51I mean, is there a movement here in France to examine that?

02:54I mean, surely are all pesticides bad or are some a necessary evil?

03:00Some are worse than others, clearly.

03:03And neonicotinoids are clearly very highly toxic compounds.

03:07And that's why France banned all of them back in 2018.

03:10It was not just, you know, an idea like that on the table,

03:15because there are many, many studies, scientific studies published every year.

03:20We spotted about 24 of them last two years that shows that, for example,

03:24acetaminoprid is highly toxic.

03:26There is a lack of studies also concerning the toxicity,

03:32neurotoxicity of development for the fetus in young kids.

03:37So it's a serious matter.

03:41All neonicotinoids should be banned in Europe and not, you know,

03:43the other way around France going back to the same level as the rest of the EU.

03:51Acetaminoprid is also very persistent in the environment.

03:55So we believe that it should be banned at the EU level,

03:58and we will work on that in the coming months and years.

04:02I mean, France is currently still debating the idea.

04:05Do you think it will actually go back on this?

04:10Well, the problem is that at the present time,

04:14the French government is more right-wing than before,

04:18more conservative, I would say,

04:20and not interested at all in environmental issues.

04:24And that's why he's giving it all to farmers' unions,

04:27conservative farmers' unions, and nothing from the environment.

04:30But, you know, France had a plan to reduce consumption of pesticides

04:35by 50% in 10 years.

04:38That was 15 years ago when it started.

04:40It was a total failure because, in fact,

04:44there is not a strong conviction that the practices of farmers

04:50should be modified and improved.

04:53And I think we have still a lot of work to do to change that,

04:57and also at the EU level where there is a huge usage of pesticides

05:03and it pollutes groundwater.

05:05For example, in France, the last official report showed that 25% a quarter

05:11of all water resources is polluted by pesticide residues

05:15over the legal limits, which is, you know,

05:19concerning 17 millions of people, 17 millions of consumers throughout France.

05:24Well, it can't live like that much longer.

05:27So we have to work on reducing our dependency on pesticides

05:31in French agriculture.

05:32And I would say in the rest of Europe, it measures the same thing.

05:36And I imagine you have had lots of interactions with farmers.

05:40I mean, when you see the damage that these pesticides can do,

05:43you're telling us even about the bee population that could wipe it out.

05:46I mean, it doesn't take somebody to be in the industry

05:48to see the impact that that will have on production in the longer term.

05:52But what do farmers have to say to that?

05:54Aren't they worried about the damage the pesticides are doing

05:57to their own land and future production?

06:01Well, farmers should be worried that pesticides are dangerous for themselves.

06:06And now in France, we have recognitions for the link between exposure

06:12to pesticides and a few diseases, Parkinson's disease, some cancers,

06:17and so on.

06:18So they are the first to be harmed, honestly.

06:22But the problem is that, for example, in beetroot cultivation,

06:26they want to have a very high yield, but the yield is already very high.

06:30In the last two years in France, the average yield for beetroots

06:34throughout France was about 80 tonnes per hectare,

06:37which is, wow, very big already.

06:40So they want to have 90 tonnes per hectare, but you can only have that

06:45with the own equities, but there are other means to get revenues,

06:49that is, higher prices.

06:50If you raise the price paid to farmers for beetroots by 5 euros per ton,

06:56they will have a fair earning, and there will be no need to increase the yield.

07:03So, and you won't notice it when, you know, drinking a coffee,

07:08because a little lump of sugar won't be, you know, more expensive,

07:12because it's 5 euros per ton of beetroots is really, you know,

07:17harmless at the consumer level.

07:19On that money side of things,

07:20Mr. François Villarette of the Pesticide Action Network,

07:25thank you so much for bringing us your insight on that situation.

07:28Much appreciated.

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