'Protection of the oceans 'should mean a ban on destructive fishing'

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00:00Emmanuel Macron, who you saw there, spelling out eight objectives ahead of an oceans summit

00:09that's being hosted in the French Riviera resort of Nice come the month of June.

00:18The French president spelling out eight targets that include an end to overfishing, the better

00:24protection of marine habitat, in particular, the protection of coral reefs.

00:36Exotic fish, water at 25 degrees Celsius, and no pollution.

00:45The perfect home for corals to thrive far from the tropics.

00:50Since the 1980s, nearly 85 species have been cultivated in this lab.

00:59This small piece can now go in the water.

01:04It's the beginning of a mother colony, which in about a year's time will look like this.

01:13According to a recent UN report, the world's coral reefs could be lost to the climate crisis

01:20in the next 10 to 50 years.

01:23Faced with this deadly scenario, marine biologist Didier Zucola decided to launch a major conservation

01:31project, aiming to provide shelter to all species known to humankind.

01:39It's like Noah's Ark, but for corals.

01:43We're taking them out of their natural environment in the hope that things will get better one

01:48day.

01:50In the meantime, we're keeping them safe in aquariums like this one because we know how

01:54to cultivate corals.

01:59The first sampling mission, which took place in the Seychelles Islands in 2022, yielded

02:0521 species.

02:08Each fragment, measuring no more than 15 centimetres, was fitted with a computer chip to create

02:15an ID card for each individual, including the type of sediment, depth and precise location

02:21where it was collected.

02:23They've since found a new home in Monaco, but also in museums and zoos in France and

02:30the Netherlands.

02:31Several samples of the same specimen must be kept in at least three different locations

02:36to guarantee there is a backup.

02:40Can you imagine keeping a species in just one aquarium and that aquarium has a technical

02:45problem?

02:46If that species can no longer be found in the wild, that would mean we would see it

02:50disappear.

02:51We can't take that risk, so we're placing our corals in different aquariums.

02:58But it might not be enough to save them if they can no longer survive in the wild.

03:04Scientists are studying ways to make corals resistant to higher temperatures and oceans

03:09turned more acidic due to carbon emissions.

03:13This species found in the Red Sea is being exposed here to a pH of 8 in normal conditions,

03:20all the way to an extreme of 7.2.

03:25We've shown that there's a change in its genes, allowing the species to adapt.

03:30That's why this coral in particular can survive in more acidic conditions.

03:38Now we want to try and transfer that resistance to other vulnerable species in the hope of

03:42restoring coral reefs that have been degraded by ocean acidification.

03:50The next mission is set to take place in the Philippines in 2025.

03:55Over the next five years, scientists hope to collect a total of 1,600 species.

04:04And joining us is environmentalist Claire Nouvian, founder of the Bloom Association.

04:09Thank you for being with us here on France 24.

04:11Thanks.

04:13And Bloom Association, which is sponsoring a petition to protect marine habitat in places

04:18like those coral reefs we're talking about.

04:21You were telling me before we went on air, you were a little underwhelmed by the French

04:25president's remarks at this preparatory summit.

04:28Right.

04:29That's even an understatement.

04:30I think I'm completely daunted.

04:32So this morning there was an SOS Ocean Summit with lots of the international marine community

04:39gathered with delegations from countries and so on.

04:42And expectations were really high on the president because France is hosting the next UN Ocean

04:48Conference, right, in June.

04:50So this was a sort of prep meeting for the UN Ocean Conference.

04:56And we were expecting Macron to say very loud and clear things about true protection of

05:02marine so-called protected areas.

05:06And the exact opposite happened, right.

05:08So a manifesto had been prepared for the summit and the manifesto said very clearly that we

05:14should actually comply with international definitions, supported by scientists, of what

05:19protection is.

05:20And protection is very straightforward.

05:22You can't call an area protected if you trawl it, right, if you trawl the seafloor, if you

05:29trawl through the water column and if you take every single animal that lives there,

05:33right.

05:34So protection should mean a ban on destructive fishing.

05:38And Emmanuel Macron avoided.

05:39Why?

05:40Why did he avoid it?

05:41Because the fishing lobbies are all over him.

05:44But they're very small.

05:46So that's the point I really want to make.

05:48I mean, we're talking, you know how many vessels are actually implicated in trawling, whether

05:54midwater column trawling or bottom trawling?

05:57Eight hundred.

05:58And if you ring fence these designated areas, you still have plenty of room to fish.

06:03Oh, gosh, yeah.

06:04I mean, if we actually did 30 percent protection, that would still leave 70 percent of the ocean

06:09for those destroyers, right, these bottom trawlers, these pelagic trawlers.

06:14They could still fish the hell out of 70 percent, which is reasonable, isn't it?

06:19I mean, asking for 30 percent protection is not a whim.

06:23It's a scientific recommendation because the ocean is in extremely bad state.

06:29And we all know that we're going through a major mass extinction of actually wild species

06:35on Earth.

06:36Right.

06:37So we need to protect them.

06:38We need to protect ourselves.

06:39The ocean is our sort of lifeline to us, humanity.

06:45And everybody's been hammering the same message over and over, actually for decades.

06:50And it's kind of daunting to see that fishing lobbies, a minute little economic interest,

06:57which is actually, you have to bear that in mind, trawling as an activity is unprofitable.

07:03It is structurally unprofitable.

07:06So if we didn't fund trawling, if we didn't fund these activities with our subsidies and

07:11public money, they wouldn't even exist.

07:14So the whole thing is a bit of a, I think, embarrassing situation.

07:18It's not just the French who trawl, of course, and we've seen a lot of countries that do.

07:25But the mood these days is not for some kind of international policing at a supranational

07:32level of waters, is it?

07:34No.

07:35But I think everybody's got to take responsibility in their sovereign waters.

07:39And that's exactly why France, being the second largest maritime territory in the world, right

07:44after the US, has to take responsibility.

07:46And as the host of the next Ocean Conference, of course, there are very high expectations.

07:52And I think everybody in the room this morning at SOS Ocean meeting was embarrassed when

07:56Mr. Macron spoke, because it was really kind of like, okay, now you're actually telling

08:01us publicly that you only support a little, very small fraction of economic interests,

08:07which again, are not profitable without public subsidies, against the will of citizens, against

08:13the will of scientists, against the recommendations.

08:16And it became even more embarrassing when Mr. Macron, as he would do sometimes, became

08:23very arrogant and started to lecture.

08:25He said, we will basically look after those countries that don't implement protection.

08:30You're like, I'm sorry, you don't implement protection.

08:34True protection in French waters is actually less than 0.1%.

08:40We don't protect anything except for trawlers.

08:43So one last question for you.

08:46We have a biodiversity summit that did not go well.

08:50We had the last climate summit by the UN that didn't go very well either.

08:55The targets were lowered.

08:58What would be the measure of success for the June summit?

09:00Well, the June summit is about stopping destruction and protecting truly.

09:06And the only thing that we need to bear in mind is that one day or the other, we'll realize

09:10that we need the ocean more than it needs us.

09:13And so if we don't stop fooling around with the CO2 emissions on one hand and the ongoing

09:19destruction by industrial fishing on the other, we won't be safe.

09:25Us humans, the planet will go on, right?

09:27The planet has gone through extinction cycles, but we will not survive this.

09:32I mean, we have to understand that who's most at risk right now.

09:36We humans are seriously at risk.

09:39And we're playing with fire.

09:40The only thing about humanity is that it feels like it's like as if fire was going on in

09:45our streets and we're waiting for fire to arrive in our apartments to kind of wake up.

09:50But when fire is in your apartment and there is fire outside, it's too late to react, right?

09:54So this is really what we have to start seriously understanding.

09:58But I think it's become quite clear that we can't count on our politicians anymore.

10:03So we need to turn to retailers.

10:05They're the ones who actually can call the shots.

10:07They're the ones who say, you know what, we will stop purchasing fish from so-called protected areas.

10:12They're the ones who can actually make protected areas real.

10:15So we really are turning to retailers at international scale right now.

10:19And that is a call that is launched here.

10:22Claire Nouveau, I want to thank you so much for being with us.

10:25Stay with us.

10:26There's more to come.

10:26More news plus the day's business and sports.

10:28You're watching France 24.

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