'Destructive industries destroying water and land which the wildlife depend on, which we depend on'

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00:00Since 1997, when Canada's highest court first recognized the rights of Indigenous people

00:05to their own lands, it's been an up-and-down struggle for those who want to lay claim to

00:12those ancestral lands, particularly in parts that are rich in oil and gas.

00:19Well, we're going to be speaking in this edition with two activists who are the stars of a

00:26Netflix documentary, Yinta, now out on Netflix.

00:31Molly Wickham, thank you for being with us.

00:34And Freda Hudson, you're both from the, I hope I get this right, the Wet'suwet'en First Nation

00:41of Western Canada.

00:43Thank you for joining us.

00:44Thanks for having us.

00:46So there's the law and there's what happens in practice.

00:52You fought an uphill battle to stop one pipeline and you say that more are being built.

00:58There are several more gas and oil pipelines that are proposed through our territory.

01:04But under Wet'suwet'en law, all of the hereditary chiefs, our traditional governance system

01:08has opposed all pipelines through our territory.

01:13We see in the documentary how you've got brave arrests.

01:17You face off against the governments, governments from both sides of the political aisle, you

01:24might say.

01:26Is it just that the power of oil money is just too big?

01:32I believe their powers that be, even though we went through a Supreme Court decision that

01:38the land is still ours, they choose to ignore it in the name of money, profits.

01:45So they still push their projects, even though we don't want them.

01:50There's been a lot of talk around the documentary.

01:54And it's something that's sparked notice, particularly in these times when there's a

02:00kind of rolling back, a pushback against trying to stop oil and gas, both for native land

02:11rights, but also for environmental rights.

02:17What are your thoughts on the moment we're in?

02:20Is it a time where those that are in favor of protecting those ancestral lands are on

02:28the back foot?

02:31I believe that we, our generation, has realized that we can't sit idle anymore or we'll be

02:40telling used to be stories.

02:42We used to have salmon.

02:44We used to have moose, because all of these destructive industries that are destroying

02:49the water, the land, which the wildlife depend on and which we depend on, we don't want to

02:55be telling used to be stories.

02:58And that is why my generation is standing up, because we see more and more of our land

03:04being just totally destroyed and very little left for us to utilize.

03:09Sally Wickham, tell us about what it's like right now back home in terms of today versus

03:1510 or 20 years ago.

03:17Well, our territories were very pristine.

03:21We have a lot of animals that culturally our people depend on, the salmon, the moose, the

03:26berries, the medicines.

03:28And so nowadays, all of our animals have been impacted.

03:32We used to drink the water right out of the river.

03:34That water was providing to Gitimden clan and to the Unist'ot'en and all of the villages.

03:40Now we have to filter it.

03:42Often it's dark brown chocolate color with the sediment and the runoff.

03:46So there's been huge impacts on the environment in our territory already.

03:51And that's just with the construction of one pipeline that has been able to go through.

03:56And more on the way?

03:57More are proposed for the territory.

04:01And we don't know if that will actually come to fruition because of the economy and the

04:08fact that fracked gas, there's a lot of other players globally in terms of LNG.

04:17But they are proposing to double the capacity of the current coastal gas link pipeline,

04:21which would have huge implications for us and our ability to access the territory and

04:27also for the environment.

04:29Because they would be feeding these compressor stations with fracked gas, with gas, instead

04:36of electricity.

04:37So there would be lots of burn off and flaring from those projects.

04:41And your reaction when you see that your neighbors to the south, the United States, they've just

04:48named as their energy secretaries, somebody who does exactly that, fracking.

04:53Yes, exactly.

04:54And so we know that the government and industry are working very closely together along with

05:00the RCMP and the Royal Canadian Mounted Police.

05:03The Royal Canadian Mounted Police have their own specific unit called the CIRG, Community

05:10Industry Response Group, that's responsible specifically for protecting industry in Canada

05:17and in BC.

05:18So they have their own police, you know, private mercenaries to do their work, to push through

05:23projects when indigenous people have title over the land and have not provided free,

05:28prior and informed consent for these projects.

05:31It's not been, again, it's not been a great week with the news cycle.

05:36There was an underwhelming final communique from the annual UN climate summit that took

05:43place in Azerbaijan.

05:45Failure to reach an agreement over the weekend at a summit to limit the world's plastics,

05:50which are made with some of the oil and gas that come out of those lands we've been talking

05:55about.

05:57How do you build a coalition in these circumstances of those who can oppose this kind of move

06:04and make it about more than just beyond one piece of land, but about the whole planet?

06:10Well, this is not just an indigenous problem.

06:14It is a world problem.

06:16And if people don't start paying attention to climate change, it's going to impact the

06:21whole world.

06:22And I always tell people it's not our, just our responsibility.

06:27It's every individual.

06:29What are you going to tell your children?

06:32Your part was in destroying the planet or saving it.

06:36And if there's nothing left for your children and your grandchildren, no fresh water to

06:40drink, no food to eat and everybody's starving, what are you going to say?

06:45Our part was in preventing this or allowing it, or did you try to do something to stop

06:51it?

06:52What's been the reaction to the documentary?

06:55We have a lot of people that really liked it.

06:59And a lot of people said it is inspiring them and waking something up in them that they

07:05didn't realize was there until they watch the documentary.

07:10That everybody was connected.

07:12At some point in your life, you were connected to your land.

07:16Your ancestors were connected to the land before consumerism and capitalism took over.

07:22A lot of people have lost that connection and that it awakens that light that is already

07:28in you, but it's dimmed because of capitalism.

07:32There was this moment in time a couple of years back where, when everybody was under

07:38lockdown, there was this reflection on what Freda just described.

07:44And now that seems to be ancient history, even though it was only three, four years

07:48ago.

07:50I think that globally people are waking up and we've seen since the reoccupations of

07:56our territories in the last decade, as you see in the film, there's a lot more people

08:01that are rising up.

08:02There's a lot more indigenous people that are rising up and a lot of support for indigenous

08:07sovereignty and title to the land because our laws are based on the sustainability of

08:13the land and living with it in a sustainable way.

08:16And so lots of organizations, lots of grassroots people, lots of other nations are starting

08:23to support and get behind indigenous law because it offers a sustainable future for everybody.

08:32And beyond obviously promoting the documentary, what brings you to Europe and what are your

08:39thoughts being here?

08:41I think for ourselves, we came to meet other people that are trying to protect the land

08:48that are in the climate justice movement and also to make those connections.

08:53That's how we've been successful in our movement and successful in creating allies and relationships

09:00is by going and meeting people face to face and seeing how we can support others and how

09:04they can support our struggle as well.

09:07What's your thoughts visiting Paris, a city where we're often struggling over these issues

09:14of how environmentally friendly it should be, what's the right balance between the automobile

09:19and the citizen and what's your first reaction here?

09:26I think people, I say, have to wake up because we're sleeping.

09:30I used to be sleeping way back when I used to be working in economic development and

09:36I pretty much was sleeping until I realized how much we were losing.

09:41And when I reconnected back to the land, then something in me came back alive.

09:46What was the trigger point?

09:47I think seeing so much destruction and less land base left for me to go visit when I was

09:53going on my holidays, my two week holidays, I would go to the land and I realized every

09:58time we went back, there was more and more destruction and I said, if I just keep coming

10:03back and don't say anything, there's going to be nothing left for my children, my grandchildren,

10:08my great grandchildren.

10:10And even for the whole world, we're all connected by water and if we don't protect that water,

10:15which we are dependent to drink, we can't sustain ourselves without water and our people,

10:20we depend on the land for our food and our medicines.

10:23And if we don't sustain that, we'll be dependent on the consumeristic portion, which doesn't

10:30heal a lot of the diseases that our medicine can.

10:34Frida Husen, Molly Wickham, the documentary is called Yinta.

10:37I know your producers are pushing for it to be considered for the Academy Awards.

10:42Let's keep our fingers crossed for you.

10:44Thank you so much for joining us here.

10:45Thank you so much.

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