- 5/22/2025
In an exclusive interview with senior most journalist Bharathi S Pradhan for Lehren Retro, National Award Winning Filmmaker Ram Madhvani openly talks about British Colonialism & Jallianwala Bagh Massacre in reference to his recently released show, The Waking of a Nation in turn commenting on Karan Johar's Kesari Chapter 2 which as also based on a similar subject. The dynamic director shares his Neerja National Award Story which starred Sonam Kapoor in lead & elaborates upon his experience of working with Aamir Khan, Kartik Aaryan & Sushmita Sen in ventures like Taare Zameen Par, Dhamaka & Aarya. Catch this candid podcast with Lehren as Mr. Madhvani opens up in a never before seen way as he reveals some unheard and exciting professional & personal tales to us! #rammadhvani #rammadhvanifilms #rammadhvanipodcast #neerja #thewakingofanation #aarya #sushmitasen #sonamkapoor #Dhamaka #kartikaaryan #aamirkhan
Category
✨
PeopleTranscript
00:00Main apne haath gaadi mein, main jaake main neeche building ke neeche jo bhi actor hai yaar jo bhi producer hai
00:06I'm over there saying, ae avocado, ae avocado nahi chhiye, achha aloo, kitne mein hai aloo?
00:12I edited it and then he saw it and then I mean he had tears in his eyes and Kiran was also there
00:22and she saw it and then Aamir said, yaar tu par director hai yaar
00:27He came up and he said, Ram ji, main Suraj Barjat hai, I said yes sir of course
00:32and he said, bahut kam log hai jo family picture banate hain, maine Nirja picture do baar dekhi
00:39aur aap please family picture banate rehna
00:43To eat with the fork and knife is the mark of a civilized society
00:47Exactly, Chinese bolenge chopsticks
00:51And hum desi kahenge, we are good with our hands
00:57How could they come here and civilize one of the world's oldest civilizations
01:02and so I get very upset and angry that even my language, my clothing, not yours
01:09Main bharti hai, naam bhi bharti
01:14Main naam toh Ram hai
01:21Hi Ram
01:23Namaste, thank you
01:25Namaste, namaskar, good to see you
01:27And satsriyakaal
01:29Satsriyakaal, because that's the flavor of the season
01:31Yes, because of the show that we made and the people of Amritsar were very very welcoming when we were shooting
01:37So, I was very happy to be able to be a part of it
01:41So, I was very happy to be able to be a part of it
01:43So, I was very happy to be able to be a part of it
01:45So, I was very happy to be able to be a part of it
01:47So, I was very happy to be able to be a part of it
01:49So, I was very happy to be able to be a part of it
01:51So, I was very happy to be able to be a part of it
01:53So, I was very happy to be able to be a part of it
01:55So, I was very happy to be able to be a part of it
01:57So, I was very happy to be able to be a part of it
01:59So, I was very happy to be able to be a part of it
02:01So, I was very happy to be able to be a part of it
02:03So, I was very happy to be able to be a part of it
02:05So, I was very happy to be able to be a part of it
02:07So, I was very happy to be able to be a part of it
02:09So, I was very happy to be able to be a part of it
02:11So, I was very happy to be able to be a part of it
02:13So, I was very happy to be able to be a part of it
02:15So, I was very happy to be able to be a part of it
02:17So, I was very happy to be able to be a part of it
02:19So, I was very happy to be able to be a part of it
02:21So, I was very happy to be able to be a part of it
02:23So, I was very happy to be able to be a part of it
02:25So, I was very happy to be able to be a part of it
02:27So, I was very happy to be able to be a part of it
02:29So, I was very happy to be able to be a part of it
02:31So, I was very happy to be able to be a part of it
02:33So, I was very happy to be able to be a part of it
02:35So, I was very happy to be able to be a part of it
02:37But what would you like to say?
02:39Because Ram Madhwani has already made The Waking of a Nation
02:41Because Ram Madhwani has already made The Waking of a Nation
02:43I had spoken to him about it
02:45And we knew about it for 4-5 years
02:47And we knew about it for 4-5 years
02:49And we knew about it for 4-5 years
02:51And we knew about it for 4-5 years
02:53And we knew about it for 4-5 years
02:55And we knew about it for 4-5 years
02:57And we knew about it for 4-5 years
02:59And we knew about it for 4-5 years
03:01And we knew about it for 4-5 years
03:03And we knew about it for 4-5 years
03:05And that's why we have to still continue
03:07And that's why we have to still continue
03:09And try to bring out the untold stories
03:11And try to bring out the untold stories
03:13And try to bring out the untold stories
03:15And try to bring out the untold stories
03:17to light more power to them
03:29They said, Karan Johar said
03:31Ram Madhwani is a very good friend of mine
03:33friend of mine. And his thought was that this story should be told in any format, whether
03:42it's a web series or it's a film or it's a documentary. Whatever the format, this story
03:48should be told and the more times it is told, the better.
03:51Yeah. And in any case, his story is about Shankaran Nair and ours is about the commission
03:56that happened, the Hunter Commission, which was called the Punjab Disorders Committee,
04:01which happened six months later to investigate why Janwala Bagh happened. So though it is
04:06about Janwala Bagh, the stories are very different in many, many ways.
04:11It's a different format. And your screenplay is also very different. Your screenplay is
04:19in six episodes, so you could have said it leisurely. And you know, you also focused on
04:25a lot of British atrocities.
04:29Because what happened was...
04:30Like the crawling, you know, that humiliation of the crawling.
04:32I had been there.
04:33All that you...
04:34Yeah, thank you. Because there was, it's called Kucha Koriya Wala, like Gali Kucha or Koriya
04:40as in knees. So it's called, and now it is called Kucha Koriya Wala. At that time it
04:44was not called that because that's when General Dyer went and said that any Indian who goes
04:49down the street has to crawl on their knees.
04:51Yeah, they have to crawl on their knees.
04:53Yeah, there's a whole board there. We didn't shoot on that street. We shot on the street,
04:57which is like really close by. Because obviously, currently the amount of wires and, you know,
05:03so we were not able to change that street, but we changed the other street to make it
05:06look like that street.
05:07Because in Kesari, they have only spoken about it. They haven't shown it. You have shown
05:14it properly.
05:15Yeah, my actor played by Taruk Raina, he is, it becomes a pivotal moment in his change
05:22of arc and his character. When he is told to crawl, then it becomes, because unka jo
05:28arc jo hai, it's a character who goes…
05:31Woh bhi desi angrez the, na?
05:33Basically, he goes from suit to dhoti. To yeh unka arc hai.
05:37Or from fork and knife to eating with his hands.
05:40With his hands.
05:42Yeh do baat hai aapne bohot spasht kiya usne.
05:46Because…
05:47Especially end mein.
05:48Basically what happens is that we've all been taught how to eat with a fork and knife.
05:52In school, we were all taught. And like we have not taught them how to eat with their
05:59hands yet.
06:00Haan, sahi baat hai. Correct, correct.
06:03And so I feel that this, ke yeh log jab aaye aur humko civilized kiya, in this whole business
06:12about them thinking that they were superior, how could they come here and civilize one
06:17of the world's oldest civilizations. And so I get very upset and angry that even my
06:22language, my clothing, not yours.
06:26Main bharti hai. Naam bhi bharti.
06:31Nee, naam toh Ram hai.
06:34Good one.
06:37So, but because of various education and you know all of that, there has been a cultural
06:42colonization, there has been a language colonization, there has been a clothing
06:46colonization. And so I have been wanting to speak about these things. So, Jal Mala
06:51Bagh by then became a story which is about racism and colonialism.
06:55Kyunki aapka ek bahut acha scene tha usme, humiliation ka, jahan wo uski pitaji ko,
07:02wo angrez aakke dikhate hai ki fork and knife se khaana kaise ka.
07:07Aur wo matlab he does it so crudely. Aisa nahi ki kuch sophistication se aap
07:13bata rahe ho. Aap baat kar rahe ho sophistication ki, lekin aapka behavior itna
07:19beastly hai. You know. In fact, you get scared because you feel. So, the scene basically
07:25just for the viewers who don't know. So, full spoiler alert. It's when Michael O'Dwyer
07:30comes to the Kantilal Saini's father's house and teaches him how to eat with a fork and
07:35knife. But you feel, and he says, to eat with the fork and knife is the mark of a
07:41civilized society. Chinese bolenge chopsticks. Aur hum desi kahenge we are good with our
07:51hands. That's true. So, but it's very sweet of you and you know sort of to notice
07:57these scenes in the show. And those are even for us, a lot of people have reacted to them.
08:05And for us, it's one of our favorite scenes. Because you feel Michael O'Dwyer is going
08:09to use that fork and knife not to teach him but to actually stab him.
08:13Actually, I wish Taruk Raina had taken that and stabbed him. That's how you feel.
08:19That's how you feel. Jab scene dekhte hai toh aisa lagta hai ki you know, itna gussa
08:24aata hai ki you feel. But I think aapki do scenes, ek wo aur wo crawling, yeh do scenes
08:32were very effective and they showed the superiority of them and wanting to thoppo their culture on us.
08:40I think that what, there was a certain, they came in a gentlemanly way but there was no gentlemanly behavior at all.
08:50Exactly. I mean, you can't, I mean that scene I think brought it all out, both those scenes.
08:56Full brutality, full brutality. So, when three or four years ago when we were starting to write it,
09:02we knew that Dharma was also making a film and we knew Akshay was going to be part of it.
09:07Aapko malum tha ki Dharma bana rahi hai, phir bhi aapne bana liya.
09:11Because we felt that there is offer, in a way it's not the same, you know. And one is a show, one is a film.
09:18And so, and there is no real, like both people should do well and like you said, the more people that know about this, the better.
09:26So, I think that we are, like one of the producers, when he messaged me, he said, we are karmically connected.
09:33Okay, okay. Karmically connected to tell the story to people.
09:40So, actually we are all one, no? So, why should we even look at it like as if it is competition or whose is better or worse or
09:47something like that. Toh aapne race nahi kiya ki, arre movie bana rahi hai, maini bana rahi hai.
09:52You know, we finished shooting in December 2023 and then I took a year to edit because I shoot a lot.
10:00Haan, you came only in 25. Yeah, exactly. So, there was no hurry at all. It was not as if, achha abhi release karo, problem hai, Dharma is coming.
10:08There was no conversations like that at all. Toh jab aayi before Kesari, toh laga ki haan, achha ho gaya, maini kar diya.
10:16You know, you never know these things. It may have been better after, it may have been better before. These are all…
10:23Rama bahut diplomatic ho. Mera naam hi hai Rama.
10:33But genuinely how do you know? I remember when we were releasing Nirja, I think Priyanka Chopra had come up with a film,
10:41which was, which Prakash Jha had directed. And she was playing a cop in that movie.
10:51And we said, look, we have to come out two weeks after her movie because ours is also female-centric.
10:59So, all of those conversations then go about and you never know, you know, what's really going to…
11:06Because I do believe genuinely destiny in films is louder than anything else.
11:13You know, destiny is louder than talent, destiny is louder than script, destiny is louder than…
11:19Because there's so many things and like how can you predict whether people are ready and you know…
11:25I was thinking for a while that maybe that's why I asked you whether The Waking of a Nation is a good title.
11:30Because obviously it is part of our history and this was part of the… like my first title was The Making of a Nation.
11:37And my co-writer, we had Shantanu Srivastava and Shatrujeet Nath. So, Shatrujeet even said,
11:42Ram, let's not call it The Making of a Nation, let's call it The Waking of a Nation.
11:46Because this was one of the things in our history that we really woke up to our own independence, our own freedom struggle.
11:53And also my, Amita's father, he is an Ayurvedic, he was an Ayurvedic doctor, Sanskrit scholar but also a freedom fighter.
12:04So, those conversations were in the house and the lead Muslim character whose name is Allah Baksh.
12:12So, I used to, I came from a small town called Barsi and one of our security guards who was there in the farm,
12:21his name was Allah Baksh. So, he used to pick me up from school and he used to take me by hand when I was a kid.
12:29So, I named Allah Baksh after him. And the lead character…
12:33The editor of that paper?
12:34Yes, the editor. Sahil Mehta plays him. And the lead character is named after my father.
12:39So, whose name is Kantilal. So, it's dedicated to our parents.
12:43Dedicated to our parents.
12:44To you. Okay, that's nice. So, you have a lot of family in your show.
12:50Yes. All the blessings. All the blessings.
12:54But I have noticed that you are a little interested in this partition and this.
13:02Because I have seen a short film of yours. You know, you made a short film in 2017.
13:08Yes.
13:09This Bloody Line.
13:10Yes, Bloody Line.
13:11So, it's about the partition. Sir Radcliffe.
13:14Sir Radcliffe, yes.
13:15Who made the borders of the partition.
13:18He made the line.
13:19He made the line.
13:20So, he came here for 30-40 days.
13:21This side or this side. East Pakistan.
13:23Can you believe that a man, suppose we are sitting here.
13:26Who doesn't even know India.
13:28Doesn't even know India.
13:29He never came to India.
13:30And he made him in charge that you make the border.
13:34And he came for 30-40 days.
13:37This is India. So, where is this?
13:39And then what he did was.
13:41First he came for 30-40 days.
13:44And his job was to draw the line.
13:47And then can you imagine, there was a country in between two countries.
13:54In between one country.
13:56So, there was East Pakistan, West Pakistan.
13:58And in between that one country, there is an imagined, there is another country.
14:03How did he make it?
14:05Yeah, no, exactly.
14:06So, it was so, I meant.
14:08Aur unka bus chale to Hyderabad ko bhi ek kisa bana lete.
14:11Yeah, exactly, exactly.
14:12So, I think that what, I was again not really, I am obviously interested in the freedom struggle and partition also.
14:20But I am more interested in the idea of how they were allowed to do these things to us.
14:27Yes.
14:28How did they come here and do this to us.
14:30And so, that is something that constantly troubles me.
14:32So, that is why I wanted to speak about it.
14:35Okay.
14:36And are you done with it or isi thought ko leke aap aur aage jaane wale ho?
14:42Nahi, if, depending on how it works, it's also very time consuming.
14:46It's taken us now 5 years, we took 3 years to write it.
14:49And then we went to Soniliv because we wrote it ourselves.
14:52So, it was not a commission show.
14:53It was a show that we wrote and then we spoke to Swagato and he has been a big believer.
14:57He is the creative head of Soniliv and now Gaurav is there, Dhanesh is there.
15:01So, we went and took it to them and now I want to do 1857.
15:06Oh.
15:07The Waking of a Nation, 1857.
15:09Okay.
15:10But…
15:11You mean it will be a series?
15:12The Waking of a Nation…
15:13I want it to be…
15:14Alag-alag…
15:15I want it to be…
15:16Alag-alag baatein pe.
15:17Yeah, exactly.
15:18Lekin aap Mughal ke time pe nahi jaage.
15:19Because I am more interested in the British Raj and how India became India in that time.
15:26Okay.
15:28I think various people have their own pain points.
15:34My own cultural pain point is this.
15:38Baat toh aap kar rahe ho English mein.
15:40Isiliye.
15:41Isiliye.
15:42And I think that's why one of the things is that the like I feel that our so much of
15:51us, so much of not just you know sort of you know our history and not just our artifacts
15:59and museums and all that but our entire culture was stolen from us.
16:03So, that's why I am speaking in English.
16:06You have very curious casting.
16:08Right.
16:09Aapka casting hamesha mere liye thoda…
16:11Acha?
16:12You know I have always reacted that way.
16:15Aapki jo pehli film thi kyunki you are an ad film maker.
16:18Right.
16:19Aapki jo pehli feature film thi 2002 ke aas paas.
16:2220 saal ho gaye.
16:2320 saal ke upar ho gaye.
16:24Yeah, 20 saal ke upar ho gaye.
16:25Toh wo aapne Burman Irani ke saath banaaya.
16:28Burman Irani was the hero of Let's Talk.
16:30Yes, yeah.
16:31Jo aapne banaaya tha.
16:33Toh aapki pehli film thi.
16:35Pehli feature film.
16:36Aur Burman Irani ke liye first break as an actor in a film.
16:40Right.
16:41And Bhuvi as a hero.
16:42You know.
16:43Toh wo bahut curious hai.
16:44No, so with Burman what happened was that I had seen him in…
16:47He had in fact played in Mahatma versus Gandhi.
16:52He had played Mahatma in the theatre.
16:56I think it was Feroz Khan who directed it.
16:58And then he had played in Jesus Christ Superstar.
17:01He had played a role.
17:02Then obviously I had seen Anwar Bajirao.
17:04And I felt that here's an actor who can do all these three roles.
17:09And literally in that six months to a year.
17:12And he was also a photographer.
17:14And so I asked him whether he'd like to come and be part of Let's Talk.
17:19And he said no.
17:20Oh, Burman said no to you?
17:22He said no.
17:23Okay.
17:24And so I had to literally arm twist him and force him to say yes.
17:29Kyu unko film mein nahi karni the?
17:31I don't…
17:32Yeah, well, you know, I think a lot of our own go to…
17:36Even with me a lot of the time it is easier to say no.
17:40There is a power in the word no.
17:42Because once you say yes, you have no power.
17:44Okay.
17:47So I had to literally force him.
17:51He was in the room which is down the corridor.
17:55And I was sitting with him.
17:57And I had to say sit down.
17:59You will not walk out of this room.
18:01Until you say yes.
18:03Really?
18:04Yeah.
18:05Acha.
18:06Okay.
18:07I just didn't give him an option.
18:10Okay.
18:11But why was he saying no?
18:13I don't know.
18:14I think you'll have to ask him that.
18:16There must have been many reasons.
18:18Maybe it was like he wasn't feeling good about it or it wasn't the right time.
18:25I don't know.
18:26I have never asked him why did he say no.
18:29Okay.
18:30But maybe it was the script.
18:31Maybe.
18:32I don't know.
18:33Okay.
18:34Though obviously we worked together on the script then.
18:35It was a film that we made with a very different process.
18:39We had the script.
18:41Then we rehearsed it for six months.
18:43Three days a week in the evenings.
18:46Every time for six months.
18:47With Baman and Maya improvising etc.
18:50Then we went and shot it in seven days.
18:53Then we made an edit for one hour.
18:56Then I showed it to 50 people as research.
18:58Then they said these two scenes are good.
19:01Then we went and re-shot the whole film.
19:03Oh.
19:04Then even those two scenes but we kept those two scenes.
19:08We re-shot those two scenes but we did it in that way.
19:11So by the time we had finished shooting like literally we had made it twice.
19:17Okay.
19:19The next film you made took more than ten years.
19:23I think the industry saw that this is an experimental film.
19:28Yes.
19:29It was experimental.
19:30Yes.
19:31Exactly.
19:32And this is an ad.
19:33It is an ad but it is a little experimental.
19:37So it took 14 years.
19:38That was my exile.
19:40Okay.
19:41Before Neerja.
19:43Before Neerja.
19:44You did a lot of curious casting in Neerja as well.
19:47Because everyone knows Sonam as a fashion plate.
19:51Right.
19:52They know Sonam as a very ditzy roles.
19:55Right.
19:56Both flippant, frivolous, society, you know, that butterfly kind of roles.
20:00And you gave her a role like Neerja and she did a good job as well.
20:05No, I think.
20:06And you got a national award for that.
20:08No, I think.
20:10I will just tell you a little bit about first on how it happened.
20:14Atul Kazbekar is the person who had been chasing me for 3-4 years to make something.
20:20And I kept saying, no, no, it's not fun.
20:22And then one day he called me and he said, I have, you know, what about Neerja?
20:26And my wife Amita, who is also my co-producer, her best friend Ellie was in school with Neerja.
20:33And one of my partners, her name is Ayesha Sayani, Poo, she shot.
20:40Amit Sayani's drama.
20:41Yeah, exactly.
20:42So she shot that ad, that Neerja's last ad.
20:45And then Neerja took that flight that night.
20:48So we had, I had never met Neerja, but I had known about her.
20:52And Atul said, look, Sonam is actually attached to it.
20:56So it was not my choice or my decision.
20:58But I'm very, very happy that because Sonam could have said, I don't want Ram to direct this.
21:03I'm happy that she said.
21:04So Sonam was already part of it.
21:06She was already part of it.
21:07She was Neerja anyway.
21:08She was, yeah.
21:09And we had not yet, Saivan Kaldross had actually spoken to Atul Kazbekar about, he had a seven pager.
21:15And then we spent a year and a half working on it.
21:18But the first thing that we did is we went to meet the family in Chandigarh.
21:22Neerja's family.
21:23Yeah, the Bhanot family.
21:24And I met Neerja's mother and very, very spirited, very passionate, feisty lady.
21:30And the thought that I was selling the team, Saivan and Sanyukta, who were the writers on the film.
21:36I said, guys, what does it take for a parent to overcome the loss of their child?
21:42And so it was not a hijack film.
21:45It was a mother daughter story about how a mother overcomes the loss of her child.
21:50And my son is a music director.
21:53And whenever he comes late at three o'clock, four o'clock from your music gig, I'm awake because you're constantly worried.
22:00So it's something which is there.
22:03And so that was the, I think when you make anything, you have to be clear as to what you want to say.
22:08Not so much what you want to say, but what you want the audience to feel.
22:12And if I can predict that feeling, this is an inspirational, motivational story about a parent overcoming the loss of their child.
22:27And so I could predict the expression of the viewer when the lights come on in the theater.
22:33I should know this is how you should feel.
22:36And therefore, I keep saying I'm in the feelings business.
22:40That's right. You are. And this worked very well.
22:46No, and you know what Sonam is? She's a friend. She's somebody who reads a lot.
22:52There is a worldview of hers that I genuinely enjoy talking to. If I speak to her about French cinema, she knows.
22:58If I speak to her about Milan Kundera, she knows. And so there was a worldview and a like heartedness, not just a like mindedness
23:05that I really respected and she got my system. I call it system 360. I shoot with three or four cameras.
23:11I shoot like as if it's theater and I don't use lights and I try not to use makeup on anybody.
23:17So I shot it in a way in which that the realism of that, you should feel like as if you are suffocated on the plane.
23:24You should feel, yaah se hum jab London jaate hain aat ghante ke liye, even if you are flying business class,
23:31if you're flying economy class, then you're shattered by the time you reach London.
23:35By the time you reach, like, so and how is it that these passengers for 16 hours were on that plane?
23:42And how do you feel like that? I was speaking to her about all of this and she did a great, great job.
23:49Shabana, Sonam, everybody, like they came on to this thing and I find Sonam to be genuinely a good actress.
23:58And what was it like getting the National Award? Did that make a change?
24:02Matlab ek baar National Award aa gaya hai, toh aapko ek wo achha stamp ban gaya na, respectable stamp,
24:09ke ab ye sirf experimental filmmaker nahi hain, achha filmmaker hain. Award winning filmmaker.
24:16No, I think first what happened was that when Nirja came out…
24:19Yahaan hai na, aapka National Award?
24:20Yeah, it's right up here, the National Award and you know, the President gives it to you, so you feel very proud.
24:25My family came, Amita came, my brother flew down from America, Baman was there, so Baman also came along.
24:31He didn't say no this time.
24:32He didn't say no, he insisted on coming along, which was very sweet of him, he's a friend.
24:36So, and a really close friend and so when we went there and when you see your name being announced
24:45in that auditorium, it anchors you, it gives you a certain stability.
24:52And it makes you feel like as if, you know, that recognition is beyond all recognition.
24:59It does not help, also what helped was that Nirja was a good return of investment.
25:05So, as far as the film industry was concerned, it was one of the highest grossing return of investment female centric films made ever.
25:13So, therefore, I think that the film industries then changed their opinion.
25:18From Let's Talk, they said, yaar isko commercial picture bhi aati hai.
25:21Aati hai.
25:22I remember Suraj Barjatia came up to me and so this was, we had got the Filmfare Award
25:29and he came up after the show and he said, and I didn't know him, I'd never met him.
25:35Obviously, I'd known of him and seen his work and all that.
25:38And he came up and he said, Ramji, main Suraj Barjatia. I said, yes sir, of course.
25:43And he said, bahut kam log hai jo family picture banate hain.
25:47Mene Nirja picture do baar dekhi aur aap please family picture banate rehna.
25:53Okay, just like Suraj to say that.
25:57Very sweet of him. It was something which again motivates and inspires you.
26:05And so, I'm constantly, that's there in my head.
26:09That I should constantly be making stuff that is wholesome.
26:13That is, people can watch with their families.
26:16Acha, wo hai.
26:18Wo hai.
26:19Okay.
26:20So, bad language, no. Certain kinds of clothing, no.
26:26Toh Kesari mein jo F word use kiya hai, wo aap use nahi karenge.
26:30I would not use that because I would feel that, but it's personal.
26:34And if I had to, I think there is one gaali that Sushmita Sen does give in season 2 or 3.
26:42But we spent a lot of time thinking about, and I'm sure with Kesari they may have spent a lot of time.
26:49Nobody out there does it out of any shock. They does it because it was needed.
26:53I'm not even sure if people use that language in other languages.
26:58I don't know. So, that's something which, but I get very…
27:011919 mein I'm not sure people used it as freely as it's used today.
27:05So, bad language for me is something which does not come easily.
27:15You just mentioned Sushmita.
27:17Right.
27:18That was another casting jo mujhe bohot ajeeb.
27:21Ajit nahi.
27:22Lekin it just took me by surprise.
27:24She was Arya when you saw her. You said who else can play this?
27:28Lekin uske pehle she was as good as forgotten.
27:32Log bhool gaye the ke Sushmita Sen hai idhar and for whatever reasons.
27:38And uske alawa jo aapne Chandrachur Singh ko aapne liya as her husband, unko bhi bhool gaye the.
27:45He's got his own charm. He's a nice actor. I like him.
27:49Lekin bhool gaye the Chandrachur ko.
27:52So, aapne in logon ko kaise aapne kaise socha?
27:56Sushmita Sen ko itne important role mein as Arya.
27:59Well, a lot of these conversations also happen with the channel.
28:02So, at that time, in fact, Shogato, who is now in Sony Live, was with Disney Hotstar at that time.
28:09And so, in the conversations that we were having, he suggested Sushmita's name and then we went to meet her.
28:18And again, like I said, she has the power. It's not me. I can't force anybody.
28:25So, she has the power to say yes or no. And I'm very happy she said yes at one time.
28:30She asked me, So, Ram, can you tell me about my character?
28:33I said, It's Sushmita Sen. Arya is Sushmita Sen.
28:39Yeah, especially the first season was very different.
28:43So, again, she submitted to, I don't use film lights. I only use practicals.
28:48I use only natural lights, no thermocols. I don't shoot like as if, mera look kidhar hai?
28:53Acha, yahaan dekhna hai? I don't say action. I don't say cut.
28:57So, I do it so that it's a lot more like what I call a 360. Agar hum yahaan baat kar rahe, toh hum baat kar rahe.
29:03And so, I use long takes. So, she submitted to and she was hungry.
29:07And Chandrachur was also because of Abhimanyu Ray, who is my casting director.
29:11And so, he suggested Chandrachur and Sikandar, who was also like, you know, at that time, everybody said, wow, where was Sikandar all this while?
29:18Yeah, yeah, correct. So, I think it was all part of, it took me again nine years to make Arya.
29:27It was meant to be a feature film. It didn't happen as a feature film.
29:31And then Gaurav and Shagato and Nikhil at that time, they came and said, why don't you make Arya as a series?
29:38And so, but so, it's again, I think that that's scriptwriter in the sky.
29:44Yes, he decides. He decides. Yeah, she decides, excuse me.
29:50Okay, all right. I accept.
29:57So, Arya also worked out very well. It did. We were nominated for the Emmys and it was something which we didn't expect to, you know, sort of to get.
30:05I think you make the work and it was, we finished shooting and three days after that COVID struck.
30:13So, we did the six months of editing, dubbing, everything was online. I didn't go into a single studio.
30:22This was, we were inventing how to do this. People were inside cupboards trying to dub.
30:28Now, everybody knows how to work online. But at that time, nobody knew what had, you know, hit us.
30:34We just changed life. Yeah, exactly, completely. And so, at that time, we made it actually.
30:39And when we were making it, like I can yet hear, this is a live dub, this is a dub from inside a cupboard.
30:52Uske baad aapne COVID ke time pe dhamaka aayi aapne. Ji, in fact, it was something.
30:58I was not very happy with your dhamaka. Well, and please, that is a very sweet way of, the way that you have told me that is gracious and kind.
31:07And that's, that's very sweet of you to say it in that way. And yes, a lot of people had mixed reactions to it.
31:14It was a film that Kartik actually asked me to do. And it was something which I said to him, Kartik, arre yaar, why are we making this?
31:23And he said, no, Ram, I really want to make this. Let's make it during COVID, etc. I'm very happy I made it.
31:27I'm very proud that I've made it. And I enjoyed, genuinely enjoyed working with Kartik.
31:35And it was, he was an actor who was hungry. And he was an actor who wanted to, yeah, exactly.
31:40And he wanted to make this. And it's something which I would not, like, I would, like, you know, sort of say, it's part of the work that I'm as proud of as, as all the other work that we have done.
31:53So, but yes, it got mixed reactions. Mujhe, main, actually jab mein dhamaka dekhne baithi ghar pe, toh mujhe laga ki, arre, I'm going to see something very nice because I like Kartik.
32:05And I said, Ram always makes something sensible. Toh maine dekha tha, I was very disappointed.
32:11I think aapka jo wo, expectations are too high when it comes to you.
32:16Aap please reduce karlo, immediately reduce karlo ek mera, expectation please reduce karlo.
32:20That's the answer. And then, of course, came Waking of the Nation.
32:31No, I think that I, there are, there, obviously, when you make films happen, like, I think that they are miracles when they happen.
32:44And we have, I think, about 15 films that have not happened for various reasons.
32:52Matlab kaam kiya hai uspe. Sometimes haan. Pure scripts ready hai. Sab kuch hai. And they've not worked.
32:59So, you're constantly, you know, I feel like as if I am one of those, jo building ke neeche sabji wale jo hote hain na.
33:06Aur I live at Prabha Devi. So, we have the street cries, which is a thing which I really miss.
33:14Okay, when the people go out there, eh, Vasun. Okay, I love those people when they, because that's the original advertising, no?
33:22Yes. That's them, actually, that's their hoarding. Okay, that's street cry. Eh, whatever, eh, bhaji. Okay, so, I feel like I am one of those people.
33:30Main jaake, main apne haathgaadi mein, main jaake main, neeche, building ke neeche, jo bhi actor hai ya jo bhi producer hai.
33:38I'm over there saying, eh, avocado, eh, avocado neeche. Acha, aloo, kitne mein hain aloo?
33:45And then, when they buy something, sometimes they buy something that you hope will, you know, that they will repeat purchase you
33:55and that they will again want to buy from you. I'm just like that. You have your own mango wala that everybody goes to that same mango wala every year.
34:04But you haven't repeated your artists. Well, in the sense that Sonam and me have been chatting, Kartik and me have been chatting,
34:11Sushmita and me have been chatting, nothing right now has, like, there was no way I could use any of them in The Waking of a Nation.
34:17I could not use Baman in Arya. I can't use Sonam in Arya. I can't use Sushmita in The Waking.
34:24So, I'm not making the work that I, would I want to repeat all of them if they want to repeat me? Yes, for sure.
34:31Because I feel that the investment into each other is, like, when I'm working with my team also,
34:41I'm working with, by and large, the same costume designer, the same DOP, the same, so, I like the idea that, because, you know, once
34:49Vidhu Vinod Chopra said, Ram, how is the DOP that you work with? I said, nahin, bahot achcha hai. I said, he said, no, no, no, Ram,
34:56main film ke pehle nahin pooch raha hoon, main film ke baad pooch raha hoon. Film ke baad how is he? So, I said, no, he's, the relationship,
35:03because that is what counts. And I think that with all of these people, the film ke baad ka relationship continues.
35:10And so, I would, if there was something which was worthy, if they also felt it, but right now, there was nothing which is also
35:17correct. So, I'm not writing for them in mind. I'm writing for what I want to speak about.
35:25And it just so happens that none of those work actually fit them in. I can't use Kartik in The Waking of a Nation.
35:32I can't even go and speak to him and say, sir, yeh main kar raha hoon.
35:36Toh Ram Madhwani ab kya soch rahe hain? Ab kya banane wale hain?
35:41So, you know, when I was in, a kid, I was, like I said, I grew up in Barsi, where we had four theaters, which were named after the Mangeshkar sisters.
35:50How four theater owners came together to name four theaters after the four sisters is a whole film over there.
35:58So, yeah. So, the Asha, Lata, Chitra, Usha. So, what happened was that one of the people, one of the theater owners knew my family.
36:11So, every time I went from my school to Barsi and if it was full, house full also, they would put a chair,
36:18they would give me a mangola and I could sit there and watch the movie as many times as I wanted.
36:23So, I was given a special chair for the theater was like my womb. Like, you know, it was something where I was completely safe.
36:32Cinema paradise. Yeah, I could forget myself. I could remember myself like we all do when we are watching movies that really affect us.
36:43And you can also get ice cream and mangola and popcorn.
36:49So, I saw, I saw, I want to make something which is fully commercial. I want to make something that is fully masala.
36:59I want to make six lip-sync songs in The Waking of a Nation. I've used Kabir's song and Karthik, I mean, sorry, not Karthik,
37:06Taruk is actually Taruk Raina singing those songs. And so, that was my first brush at lip-sync songs.
37:16But now with this commercial film that I want to, which we are writing right now, which I am hoping will have full-blown lip-sync songs,
37:25Hindi film songs. I think we have forgotten, we are getting a little embarrassed about how to use lip-sync songs and they become background music.
37:33So, I want to go back to what I consumed as a kid and that I was so hypnotized by.
37:39Right. So, you are working on it? That's something that I am working on. And have you thought of the cast?
37:45So, conversations are on. But again, like you know what they say, no, like when you are pregnant, you don't speak about the baby until it's delivered.
37:57And in this industry, as you know, anything can happen. Like until it is, even after you finished it sometimes,
38:05you don't know whether it will get released, what's going to happen. So, I want to make something commercial, so that from Let's Talk
38:12to The Return of Investment of Neerja to Arya to Waking of a Nation to Dhamaka, which I thought was also commercial in its own way,
38:21though you may not have liked it and which is only fair, it's not a problem. And like I am absolutely okay with people actually telling me that they don't like it.
38:29We will still be friends. We don't have to break up. It's okay if you didn't like the film. That's what I tell my friends.
38:43It's okay, you didn't like my work. It's fine. It's something which we will yet continue to chat and talk to each other.
38:54As long as you told me on my face that you didn't like it, that's what I respect. Okay. So, I feel that…
39:00We say it all the time in our reviews, no?
39:02Yeah. And that's what you do in any case, you know. And I respect and I need to learn from that.
39:09You have a very special relationship with Aamir Khan. Because I heard that you made a few videos for him, for Satyamev Jayate.
39:19So, I'll tell you…
39:21I think his film, Taare Zameen…
39:23Yeah, I did a song also for Taare Zameen Par, because Aamir called, I think he was running out of time in Panchgani.
39:29And he said, look, I want you to come and shoot this song.
39:33Bheja Kam.
39:34Bheja Kam. It was not with him, it was with Darshil. And I grew up in Panchgani, my school was in Panchgani.
39:39Okay.
39:40So, I was in St. Peter's School in Panchgani. So, when he called me to come and shoot a song in Panchgani, it was like a big thing for me.
39:47Because to go back to where my schooling was and of course, it's a big thing if Aamir Khan asks you to do anything.
39:54So, I've been wanting to work with Aamir for a long, long time. I respect what he does and I'm a fan of his.
40:01So, when he asked me to make Taare Zameen Par, he has been, he was completely hands-off.
40:08He was shooting in the next classroom for his song. I was shooting in this classroom. He never came to my shoot.
40:16I was shooting with another DOP. I was shooting there for three or four days and obviously we were there for about a week.
40:22He didn't come. He never asked, kya ho raha hai, kya hai. I told him, Aamir, this is what I want to do because obviously I saw the rough cut.
40:29I had also been Associate Director with Vidhu Vinod Chopra on Mission Kashmir. And then I did this song for Aamir.
40:37And then after that he was doing a music video for Satyamev Jayate, where he said, let's go from Kerala and we'll go to Kashmir for over two, three weeks.
40:48And we'll just travel. So, I said, Aamir, wo sab theek hai, but what's the script? What are we doing?
40:54He said, toh bana na yaar. We'll just go. So, I was really scared because I said, ek toh Aamir Khan hai.
41:02Then I better tell him because at least in that Tari Zameen Par, I told him very clearly, yaar Aamir yeh hai gaana. This is how I'm thinking of it.
41:09This is what the storyboard is. So, because I have the responsibility of, there's another director, there's an actor, there's somebody that I respect.
41:16And he has asked me to make it. So, I have to tell him, bhai aisa aisa hoga. So, even on Satyamev Jayate, I had to tell him, Aamir, look, you can't just put me in the deep end like this, you know.
41:23And, like, I'm shooting with four or five cameras. And I think that the greatest compliment happened after we finished shooting.
41:32It was great hanging out with him while we were travelling from Kashmir to, you know, sort of Kerala to Kashmir and we went everywhere else, all across India.
41:40And then I edited it. And then he saw it. And then, I mean, he had tears in his eyes and Kiran was also there and she saw it.
41:49And then Aamir said, yaar tu toh director hai yaar. So, I said, that was like one of the nicest compliments that I've received.
42:00Validation.
42:01Validation. I think validation is something which I'm trying to, like, I was just telling my team,
42:13ki ye jo hamari dadi jo chavi jo rakte the na, Kabad ki, Godrej Kabad ki chavi, wo guccha yaar challa yaar jo bhi kehte, they used to keep it in their sarees, right?
42:24Those are the keys to your own inspiration, your motivation and your own, how shall I say, self-worth.
42:32As soon as my, is my self-worth, am I only as good as you think I am?
42:44If you didn't like Dhamaka, does that make me a bad filmmaker?
42:49Okay, and therefore my validation, obviously I want validation, I want you to think that I'm a good filmmaker.
42:55But when you don't think I'm a good filmmaker, does that mean that I'm not?
43:00And does that mean that in fact my self-worth of, what is the measure of my worth?
43:05Aur ye jo chavi jo hai, inspiration, creativity, validation, self-worth ki jo chavi jo hai,
43:10mujhe lagta hai ki jaise hamari dadi didn't give those keys to anybody in the house, okay, those keys remained with them.
43:20I'm training myself because of the business that I'm in, which is a business which is full of the vagaries of other people's opinions.
43:28Is your opinion of me going to become my opinion of me?
43:33Ye jo chavi jo hai na, main khud apne paas mein rakhne wala hoon, main kisi hoon ko nahi doonga.
43:41Kyunki agar maine de diya, koi bhi, aur main sununga, aisa nahi bol raha hoon, main nahi sun raha hoon.
43:47Lekin ye chavi, otherwise it's a very insecure thing that we are in.
43:53And we are seeking validation all the time and because, and obviously these things you remember,
43:58you know, when Suraj Barjatya comes up and says something, when Aamir Khan says something.
44:02And those are the things that are, and when the National Award you get, those are, you know, nice validations to have.
44:08But I want to make a film on validation. And I've started writing it, in fact, about an actress who is seeking validation.
44:16And I, in fact, I wrote it, I finished writing it. And at the end of the film, she gets validation.
44:22Abhi mujhe lag raha hai, wo climax I will have to rewrite. Because when you get validation, it's all fine.
44:28But when you don't get validation, that's when you're actually, that's when you decide what is the measure of your worth.
44:35So, who were you thinking of casting for that?
44:38Who am I casting for that?
44:39Thinking of.
44:40Who am I thinking of casting for that?
44:41Or even when you wrote it.
44:43So, there are, it's a film that I don't think will ever get made.
44:50So, then you can tell me the name anyway.
44:54You can see from the very idea itself, yaar yeh validation ke upar picture bana raha hai, yaar koi dekhega nahi.
45:01No, I'm scared of even, I want to make it commercial, obviously. Because I want to reach out.
45:08But, so, but let's see how it goes. I, again, I'll only speak about it when it happens.
45:14Because otherwise, it becomes news for a reason that should not be made newsworthy.
45:20And, so, I'd rather give you news that is worthy.
45:23Again, missed.
45:26Missed, missed, barabar, well left. Yeh champion, bahut champion batsman hai.
45:31Yahaan bowler ne, bahut, bahut achche achche ball feke. Lekin yeh batsman abhi tak out nahi hua, wo khel raha hai.
45:42Very nice.
45:43Very nice.
45:48Toh chakka maari diya.
45:49Theek hai.