Ted Cruz Asks NASA Head Nominee What 'Consequences' US Will Face If 'China Beats Us To The Moon'

Forbes Breaking News

During a Senate Commerce Committee hearing prior to the congressional recess, Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) spoke about China's ambitions to create a permanent lunar base by 2035.

Transcript

00:00Thank you to you both.

00:04All right, Mr. Isaacman, let's start.

00:07If you're confirmed, you will oversee NASA's various field centers, mission directives, and affiliated activities.

00:14This includes Artemis and the Moon to Mars program,

00:18which aims to keep us one step ahead of nations like China in the fight for supremacy in space.

00:24The threat from China is very real.

00:26Just last week, General Saltzman, Chief of Space Operations for the Space Force,

00:32testified before the U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission

00:36that Beijing has been explicit as recently as October of last year

00:42in stating that China intends to surpass the United States and become the world's preeminent space power.

00:49As General Saltzman put it,

00:52China's advancement in space technology, their stated desire to dominate,

00:58and Beijing's disregard for international norms for the responsible use of space

01:04make them an incredible danger to U.S. prosperity and security.

01:10China has said that they will put a man on the Moon by 2030,

01:14and that they will build a permanent lunar base there along with Russia by 2035.

01:22Based on how quickly they have already progressed,

01:25I think it is quite possible that China reaches those milestones sooner than those dates,

01:31and indeed that China reaches the Moon before the end of President Trump's current term.

01:39Mr. Isaacman, if China beats us to the Moon, what consequences might America face?

01:47Mr. Chairman, I really appreciate that question, and I couldn't agree more with all of your commentary, sir,

01:55including in your opening remarks, we certainly cannot lose.

02:01If we do not lead the way and we're following, we may be following forever,

02:04and the consequence of which could be extraordinary.

02:08I mean, even if you're talking about things that have maybe even a low probability,

02:13let's say, for example, on the lunar surface,

02:15helium-3 becomes a new source of fusion power,

02:18it could shift the balance of power here on Earth.

02:21I don't think we can afford to find that out the hard way.

02:24As you said, sir, and I've agreed for a very long time,

02:26space is the ultimate high ground.

02:28We cannot afford to cede that ground.

02:32So my team did a visual representation of what the stakes are.

02:37And it's a simple question, what does the future look like in 2030?

02:43Now, I will note that my team used ChatGBT to make this poster.

02:49And my immediate comment on seeing it is the American flag is too damn small.

02:56And I was told it was difficult to get a bigger American flag on AI.

03:00That may be underscoring the need to win the race for AI as well.

03:04But it does give a sense of exactly what the choices we're facing.

03:09Now, when we met in my office, you said beating China back to the moon was, quote,

03:15critical for our national interests.

03:18You also said that if President Trump turns on the television

03:23and sees Chinese astronauts on the surface of the moon before Americans,

03:28you said you would be fired that day.

03:31In your written testimony, however, you said, quote,

03:36we will prioritize sending American astronauts to Mars.

03:41There seems to be a bit of tension between the commitment you made in my office and your testimony.

03:47What is your view?

03:50Will you maintain course with the Artemis program so that we can return American astronauts to the moon

03:57before President Trump leaves office?

03:59Mr. Chairman, I really, I really appreciate the statement.

04:04First, I couldn't agree more with the president and his inspiring and ambitious goal

04:09to send American astronauts to plant the stars and stripes on Mars.

04:13He didn't say we shouldn't go to the moon.

04:15I suspect the president, as I feel and probably a lot of Americans is,

04:18is what's taking us so long to get back to the moon and why does it cost so much money?

04:22I absolutely want to see us return to the moon.

04:25As I mentioned in my prepared remarks, determine the economic, scientific,

04:30and national security value while we are also proceeding towards Mars.

04:35I don't think we have to make any tough trades here, Senator.

04:38I think if we can concentrate our resources at the world's greatest space agency,

04:43we don't have to make a binary decision of moon versus Mars

04:47or moon has to come first versus Mars.

04:49I think we could be paralleling these efforts and doing the near impossible,

04:52which is exactly why the American taxpayers funded NASA in the first place.

04:57Well, I will say on the question of whether NASA has to implement moon then Mars,

05:06United States law is explicit and unequivocal on that.

05:1051 U.S.C. Section 20302, which Senator Cantwell and I wrote, says,

05:17vision for space exploration, the administrator shall establish a program

05:22to develop a sustained human presence in cislunar space or on the moon

05:27as a stepping stone to future exploration of Mars and other destinations.

05:33The notion of the moon as a stepping stone is explicitly in U.S. law.

05:38Do you acknowledge that?

05:40Yes, I do, Senator.

05:42And let me ask you, given the current NASA budget,

05:45if we assume for a moment we're not going to see a dramatic shift

05:49and NASA's budget double tomorrow,

05:52do you believe it is possible to stand up a full mission to the moon

05:59and a full mission to the Mars simultaneously?

06:03Senator, as I mentioned in my prepared remarks, I think we can absolutely do that.

06:08We can figure out the space economy in low Earth orbit.

06:11We can run more scientific missions.

06:13This is the agency that went from sending Alan Shepard on a suborbital mission

06:17and eight years later we saw Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin on the surface of the moon.

06:22Do I think that we can get back to the moon, chart a course for Mars and do all the other things?

06:27Absolutely, Senator.

06:28So do we have your commitment that you will not allow the scenario on the right on this poster to happen,

06:34that China will not beat us to the moon,

06:37that one of these heroes sitting in this room will set his or her,

06:43and as a father of two daughters I'm particularly excited that Artemis is committed,

06:47it will be a her, the first woman will step foot on the moon and she will be an American astronaut.

06:53Do we have your commitment that we will win the race to the moon

06:57and China will not beat us?

06:59Senator, I only see the left-hand portion of that poster.

07:02And next time we'll make the American flag bigger.

07:05Senator Cantwell.

07:06Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent that the poster be placed in the record.

07:12An excellent idea and a chairman who was crossing his T's and dotting his I's would have done so already without objection.

07:18Senator Cantwell.

07:19Senator Cantwell.

07:20Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

07:21And continuing on this same point, listen, I have no doubt of your capabilities at the technical side of this

07:28and the expertise both on the aviation and the space side.

07:32It's a question, I think, of a long-term challenge of different administrations to deliver on

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