Sexual harassment at work: the strategies to fight it

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00:00Let's get more on this case, joined by the journalist and essayist Natasha Henry.

00:03And Natasha is an expert on gender based violence

00:05and is also an international consultant for the Council of Europe.

00:08Natasha, thank you for being with us.

00:10I'm wondering what you make of this case, because we all have an image,

00:15if we've been part of French culture for a number of years,

00:18of Gérard Depardieu as a younger actor with energy and vibrancy.

00:22And now, of course, this is painting a completely different image

00:25of Depardieu, the man, the actor.

00:28Yes, what is quite surprising, I find, is that when the producers of that film

00:34and the director and everybody else around that movie hired him in 2021,

00:39he was already under investigation for rape.

00:43And so it was something that was already known,

00:46that he had this bad behavior, to say the least, towards women,

00:51towards women who are usually under him in the hierarchy of cinema.

00:57So there's a real influence there that he's taking advantage of.

00:59He's taking advantage of vulnerable women.

01:02I mean, vulnerable because they don't have his status.

01:05They are not at his level in the way of reputation and everything,

01:10which is what we find in French companies, in French hospitals

01:13and, you know, everywhere in France, you have people who think

01:17they can get away with this, with a sexual harassment and everything,

01:20because they are assaulting women who are not in such a strong place.

01:26So a pattern, not just in cinema, not just with Depardieu,

01:29but with alleged Depardieu, innocence is proven guilty, of course.

01:32That is all going through.

01:34But it's a pattern within society.

01:37Men using their power and influence to exploit,

01:39to take advantage of sexually women.

01:42Fortunately, we have laws in this country and all this is no longer possible.

01:47So I really encourage women who work for French companies

01:50or in a French situation or French cinema

01:54to tell everybody, everybody about what's happening,

01:59because some people will believe them.

02:01And there's also a very interesting point is witnesses.

02:04A witness doesn't need, according to the French law,

02:08to have seen the thing happening.

02:11A witness can be somebody you have talked to after it's happened.

02:15And this person will be a witness.

02:16And in that kind of situation, it's very, very important.

02:19And it will be brought to the case.

02:22So that breaks down Depardieu's lawyer's argument

02:25about there were no witnesses, witnesses who saw what happened.

02:28Because clearly the people who suffered or the women who suffered at his hands,

02:33they spoke about it.

02:35But you say there were others who saw it as well.

02:37They were witnesses.

02:39They both went to see doctors who gave them sick leave

02:44for about a week, both of them.

02:45So that's pretty impressive in your legal file.

02:50So, yeah, talk to everybody.

02:51And also there is a law in France that also says

02:55that you cannot be prosecuted for having helped a victim

02:59or having spoken up because maybe the victim is too embarrassed,

03:02too shy, too frightened, too scared, too weak, too vulnerable to say anything.

03:06But please, everybody else around do something

03:10and nothing can happen to you in the workplace.

03:12They can't fire you or hold it against you

03:15if you speak in favor of a victim.

03:18It's very difficult, isn't it, though, for for a woman

03:23to actually stand up and say something very difficult.

03:26It's still this stigma which goes with it of perhaps being blamed,

03:31which is completely unjustified, of course.

03:33And also this fear that in spite of what you said about laws,

03:37you will still somehow become the victim if you speak out.

03:40Yes, I go to companies and I talk about the prevention of sexual harassment.

03:45One thing that people don't know yet in this country

03:48is that the law now includes

03:52stupid jokes, for instance, or the sexual jokes and sexist jokes

03:56that used to be funny for them are now considered a sexual harassment.

04:01It's taken very seriously now in this country.

04:05Of course, there's always somebody who will say, ah, she was looking for it.

04:10But in the case of Gérard Depardieu,

04:12I don't I don't know how you could be on his side.

04:15I mean, he's got a whole list of behavior like this.

04:20This whole argument of a woman dressing in such a way which says she's looking for it.

04:24I mean, it's it's such an abhorrent thing to say because everybody

04:28should have the freedom to dress, to feel, to act and be how they are,

04:32how they feel they are and not be a threat from somebody's predatory behavior.

04:37Also, it's not true because they do that no matter what you're wearing.

04:42So so it's not because of your miniskirt that somebody will in the workplace,

04:46maybe on the street, this could be different.

04:48But it's about power, isn't it?

04:49It's about having that power over someone.

04:51It's about expressing.

04:53It's so cruel to do this because

04:56the woman goes to work on the film set or anywhere else.

04:59And and she wants to have a normal day at work and get paid for it.

05:05But she has to.

05:07Avoid, change her daily routine, park the car somewhere else,

05:12avoid this elevator, avoid this office, avoid this corridor.

05:16It's very, very time consuming and energy consuming.

05:19So I'm very glad that Gérard Depardieu is serving

05:24all of us.

05:24He's helping all of us to speak up.

05:26And he is one big example of what's going on.

05:29My own daughter opened my eyes to the things that she has to do

05:33to make sure that she feels safe.

05:34She she lives mainly in London and the things that you're talking about.

05:38It really resonates with what my daughter has told me.

05:40And it's it's horrible.

05:42And really, you know, society has to change.

05:44And actually, thank you for coming in and sharing your thoughts

05:47and analysis with us, Natasha Emery.

05:49And good luck to you with the work of spreading the word and power to you.

05:52Thank you very much indeed for being with us.

05:54Natasha Emery there, who is a journalist, essayist

05:57and expert on gender based violence, which is another thing

06:00that really must stop and international consultant

06:03for the Council of Europe.

06:04Natasha, thanks for being with us in France 24.

06:05We appreciate your time.

06:08Next.

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