Scotsman Politics: FMQs Roundup Thursday January 16 2025 #NHS

The Scotsman

Transcript

00:00Hello and welcome to the Scotsman's Politics Show.

00:03We're here to unpick and unwrap First Minister's questions for another week to start the year.

00:10Our political editor, Alistair Grant, comes to us live from Holyrood.

00:15Alistair, you were there and obviously the report overnight that we had on the front

00:22page of today's Scotsman on some testimony from nurses, some of it was pretty shocking

00:28and that led to a conclusion.

00:30Yes, this is a report compiled by the Royal College of Nursing, basically compiling the

00:37testimonies of nurses across the UK, surveying them about their experiences of the frontline

00:42NHS crisis, particularly focusing on the issue of corridor care, that's patients being treated

00:48in corridors and other unsuitable locations because of hospital overcrowding, predominantly

00:53caused by issues such as delayed discharge.

00:55It was quite a harrowing read, I'm sure people watching this will have seen a lot of the

00:59coverage of this, it's been all over the newspapers, all over the BBC website.

01:04There's basically, as I say, testimonies from nurses across the UK, for the Scottish examples

01:10there was stuff like patients having cardiac arrests in hospital corridors because there

01:14was no beds for them, there was patients becoming incontinent in corridors because they don't

01:19have access to toilet facilities, there was testimony from nurses who broke down in tears

01:24in cupboards because of the stress of the situation, their despondency and the lack

01:29of what they would see as professional care that they could provide to these patients.

01:34Nurses, there was one who's been a nurse for a decade, I think, who was talking about this

01:39being the worst they'd ever seen the NHS, like a broken system, they said they'd worked

01:44in hospitals over the COVID-19 crisis, but the situation now was worse.

01:49There was nurses talking about going through the process of leaving the NHS because of

01:54how horrendous their experiences have been, being left with mental health issues, experiencing

01:59trauma.

02:00It really was quite a harrowing read, and this was brought up by both Scottish Tory

02:05leader Russell Finlay and Scottish Labour leader Anna Sarwar at First Minister's Questions

02:10today.

02:11Russell Finlay effectively saying to John Swinney, you know, what do you say to these

02:16patients and staff who are having to cope with these conditions?

02:20And John Swinney apologising to anyone who's experienced inadequate care, who's experienced

02:26overcrowding in hospitals, but also pointing to the fact that this survey took place over

02:30the winter period.

02:31I think it was looking at the end of December, beginning of January period, which coincided

02:36with a huge increase in flu cases in hospitals.

02:39We've covered this a lot in the Scotsman, and the impact that's had on the hospital

02:43service.

02:44Obviously, with more patients coming in with flu, it's been very difficult for hospitals

02:48to deal with that.

02:49It creates all sorts of other problems as well.

02:51Anna Sarwar, the Scottish Labour leader, effectively challenging John Swinney and saying, reading

02:56out a number of these testimonies, and saying, doesn't this show the kind of deadly crisis

03:01in Scotland's NHS, the deadly reality for Scotland's NHS?

03:05And John Swinney denying that was the case, but accepting that hospitals have had an extremely

03:11tough time, again, pointing to the kind of enormous rise in flu cases.

03:15So very difficult FNQs, I think, for John Swinney.

03:19Everyone would accept there are problems in the NHS that desperately need addressed.

03:23This report was, you know, it's harrowing.

03:26You go through it, you read these testimonies, you can't do anything else but conclude that

03:31the NHS is not in a good place.

03:32So I think it was a very difficult First Minister's questions for John Swinney.

03:37And Alistair, we've spoken about the fact that the Scottish budget is set to clear effectively

03:43over the next couple of weeks, and then that money that's been committed, 21 billion pounds

03:49for the NHS, but just how far will it go at the end of the day to fixing a lot of these

03:54problems? That will be one to watch and one to see.

03:58Just outside of that, there was a story that broke just before FNQs around the Scottish

04:05Tories and reform.

04:07Now, I think you've asked some difficult questions for Russell Finlay about this.

04:12Yes, this news, like you say, broke just before First Minister's questions in Holyrood.

04:16And it's the news that Thomas Kerr, who is the Tory group leader in Glasgow City Council,

04:21has defected to Nigel Farage's Reform UK.

04:23Thomas Kerr, quite a high profile councillor.

04:26He's got quite a profile.

04:28He stood in Holyrood elections.

04:29He stood in general elections.

04:31He stood at the Brotherglen by-election.

04:33He was a Tory candidate in that by-election.

04:35But it should be said he is one of only two Tory councillors in Glasgow City Council.

04:40So I call him the Tory group leader.

04:42It's not a huge group he's leading, but it's still massively embarrassing for Russell

04:47Finlay. He's still a relatively new party leader.

04:50He came in, I think it was the end of September last year.

04:53And actually, he gave a speech at the beginning of this week, which I was at in

04:57Edinburgh, in which he was repeatedly asked about reform, repeatedly asked about the

05:01threat posed by reform, and said in answer to journalists that voting for reform was

05:07simply going to help the SNP in Scotland.

05:10He kind of dismissed him as a protest vote.

05:12And I think, you know, to have this happening a few days later, a high profile Glasgow

05:17councillor defecting, I think it's hugely embarrassing for him.

05:20Russell Finlay was doorstepped by journalists after First Minister's questions,

05:24effectively saying he was disappointed, but he has to just focus on the job he's got to

05:28do. He was asked about whether other conversations had taken place with colleagues in

05:33Holyrood or elsewhere who are considering defecting.

05:36And he just wouldn't go there, really.

05:37He wouldn't really confirm whether those conversations had happened, said that they

05:40were private if they had happened.

05:42But I think this is definitely one to watch.

05:44And as we approach the Holyrood election in 2026, you know, one of the things that Reform

05:49UK will want is a high profile defection within the Holyrood group.

05:54So I'm almost certain they'll be approaching, in fact, I am certain there'll be

05:58approaching MSPs trying to get a defection mayor because that would just be the icing

06:04and the cake for them, I think, in the approach to that Holyrood election.

06:06But the final thing to say in this is that a poll earlier this week by the Holyrood

06:11Sources podcast and True North Advisors showed that Reform are on course to get at

06:18least 15 seats currently in Holyrood.

06:21So they're a real challenge to the Tories.

06:23They'd be equal to the Tories in the Holyrood election if we take that poll as it

06:27stands at the moment. So they're a huge problem for Russell Finlay, essentially.

06:32Alastair, it does seem that based on those numbers we passed, just talking about Reform

06:38as a protest vote or protest group, so to speak, that it's fair to say that they are

06:44something that the other parties legitimately have to worry about for 2026.

06:50Definitely, I mean, they are a protest vote in the sense that voters are attracted to

06:54them because they are this upstart party that is pushing this message of change across

06:59the UK. People are clearly dissatisfied with the current political climate.

07:03They're dissatisfied with the mainstream political parties.

07:06They're looking at public services, which they don't think are working for them.

07:10And they're looking to parties like Nigel Farage's Reform UK effectively as a protest

07:15vote because they don't like the mainstream parties.

07:18But it's just a huge issue for the Tories, also an issue for parties like Labour, because

07:22some of their voters will be looking at Reform UK as well.

07:26And we've seen in various kind of council by-elections in Scotland that Reform UK are

07:30doing pretty well.

07:31So, yeah, I think it's pretty much a dead cert that they will pick up seats in Holyrood

07:36next year. It's just a question of how many.

07:40You can read all the very latest on those stories we've discussed at Scotsman.com.

07:44If you're ever trying to find any of that political coverage, there's a politics tab in

07:48the navigation bar and you'll get the latest from Alistair and his colleagues, Rachel

07:53Armory, David Bowle and Alexander Brown down at Westminster.

07:57Please, as always, follow us on all mediums, Facebook, Instagram, Blue Sky, and we'll have

08:02all the very latest in tomorrow's paper.

08:05Thanks to you, Alistair, and thanks, everyone else, for joining us.

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