Scotsman Politics: FMQs Unpicked Thursday February 20 2025 #FMQs

The Scotsman

Transcript

00:00Hello, and welcome to the Scotsman's Politics Show.

00:03We're here to unpick and wrap up First Minister's questions

00:07for another week.

00:08Rachel Amory, our political correspondent,

00:10coming live from the halls of Holyrood.

00:13Rachel, we thought it would be a bit of a spicy FMQs.

00:17It didn't let us down, thankfully.

00:19I know you've been covering blow by blow

00:21of what's happened over the past hour.

00:24Take us through the key question,

00:26because we probably all knew it was coming,

00:28and Russell Finlay went straight in on same-sex spaces.

00:32Yes, we were very much expecting the FMQs today

00:35to kind of be dominated by single-sex spaces

00:37and transgender rights,

00:38particularly in the back of this employment tribunal

00:41that's happened between the nurse, Sandy Peggy,

00:44and Dr. Beth Upson in NHS Fife.

00:46It's been going on all week.

00:47Earlier in this week, you might remember as well,

00:49the Conservatives, in fact, several MSPs

00:51from different parties, actually,

00:53tried to get questions heard on this in the debating chamber,

00:57and these questions were rejected.

00:58The Conservatives then tried to amend

01:00the parliamentary timetable

01:02to force the health secretary to make a statement,

01:04and that was voted down.

01:05So we kind of expected this slot

01:08the Conservatives have every single week at FMQs

01:10to be dominated by this instead.

01:13So it was very much on single-sex spaces,

01:16what the guidance is for public bodies,

01:18and how the Equality Act is to be used by public bodies,

01:21such as NHS boards, for example.

01:23It did get very, very heated.

01:26John Swinney, very keen to point out

01:27that he cannot comment on anything

01:29that might compromise the employment tribunal,

01:31which has now been adjourned into the summer,

01:33so it's still very much ongoing,

01:35but lots of quite angry back and forth,

01:38lots of laughing at disbelief

01:39in some of the comments being made as well.

01:42So very much a spicier FMQ

01:44than what we've seen of late from there.

01:46Now, the Labour Party did go on health,

01:48but they did also refer to the case of Sandy Peggy

01:51and Dr. Beth Upson as well,

01:53basically referring to the priorities of the NHS

01:56and the money that's being spent on this case

01:58compared to frontline health services, for example.

02:01It wasn't just that that was being talked about

02:04at FMQs today.

02:05We also had Pam Gosal.

02:06She's a Scottish Conservative MSP.

02:08She was talking about single-sex spaces,

02:10particularly in schools.

02:11It was slightly different, not directly about this case,

02:14but a very, very similar issue,

02:16and again, referring to the case of Sandy Peggy

02:18and Dr. Beth Upton,

02:19saying that it shows that the mindset

02:22that's being of gender identity and self-ID

02:26produced by the SNP is being infiltrated into public bodies.

02:31And she was trying to say that it's unfair

02:33for there to be no single-sex toilet in schools.

02:36But again, it was very much a case

02:38of looking at the legislation that's already in place

02:40and trying to get technical on the details of all of that.

02:44Rachel, please correct me if I'm wrong,

02:46but the hearing's not meant to restart until July,

02:49I think it is.

02:50I mean, we're looking, that's four months away.

02:53That's a considerable period of time.

02:55What's, can John Swinney's position hold?

02:58I cannot comment on this issue in general

03:01because of the hearing

03:02when he's going to be asked about it

03:04for the next four months.

03:05Is that realistic that he can stick to this position?

03:08I think at this point, it's almost like he's got to.

03:11It's one of the things that are so far down the road now

03:13that it can't, it will look quite bad for the party

03:16to u-turn on this at this point in time.

03:18Earlier this week, for example,

03:19Anna Sarwar and Jackie Bailey from the Labour Party

03:22said that they would not have voted for gender reforms

03:24back in 2022 if they had known

03:26this was coming down the line.

03:27That has not necessarily gone down that well

03:30with the public, basically people saying,

03:32why did you not have this position at the time?

03:36So it's unlikely we're going to see a change in position,

03:38but as you said, it's a very, very long legal process.

03:41We're now just going to have months and months

03:42of this debate because there's going to be no answer

03:45to what's going to happen until the summer

03:47when the poorest parliament is in recess.

03:50One thing to note, it's quite interesting

03:51that it was the Deputy First Minister, Kate Forbes,

03:53just before FNQ started, there was newspaper reports

03:57that she had said that she gives her full backing

03:59to single-sex spaces, which is perhaps a bit sort of firmer

04:03than anything we've heard from John Swinney

04:04or the Health Secretary, Neil Gray, on this issue.

04:06But again, Kate Forbes is very keen to not comment directly

04:09on the case that's happening at NHS Fife.

04:12It's an interesting one because I would love

04:15to have heard the discussions behind the scenes on this one

04:17because clearly Scottish Labour have said,

04:20look, we'll update our position.

04:22We'll maybe even take a hit with some people

04:24who criticise us now, but at least allows us to move on

04:28and be critical of the situation,

04:30whereas the position from John Swinney

04:32and the Scottish government and the SNP means

04:35it is going to drag out for them

04:37and it's going to keep coming up.

04:38So which is better from a political point of view?

04:41It's a good argument to make.

04:43Rachel, health was referenced as well.

04:48We know it's a big issue for Scottish Labour.

04:51We know it's a big issue for the government as well

04:53that's made some commitments lately.

04:56We're expecting it'll be talked about again

04:58over the coming days with Scottish Labour

05:01to start their conference tomorrow.

05:03Can you talk through what was asked by Anas Sarwar

05:06but also the significance of that discussion

05:08heading into the weekend?

05:10Yes, so Anas Sarwar almost every week goes on the NHS.

05:13So no surprises there.

05:14This is what was happening this week.

05:16And again, seeing there's huge waiting lists.

05:19So many Scottish people are on these NHS waiting lists.

05:22And one of the reasons, one of the knock-on impacts of that

05:25is more people trying to get GP appointments

05:27and recurring GP appointments

05:29for things that would perhaps be fixed

05:31if they could get to hospital in a shorter amount of time.

05:35So the Labour Party have come out

05:37with the past week of a new policy point

05:39if they were to win the next year's election

05:41to say that they would end the 8 a.m. rush

05:43for a GP appointment and would have everyone

05:45seeing a GP within 48 hours.

05:48Again, slightly another sort of problem with Labour Party,

05:51sometimes we don't get a lot of detail

05:52on these sorts of points.

05:53And perhaps a bit of detail lacking here

05:56on this point that was made by Anas Sarwar.

06:02His position on what they want to do with the health service.

06:06Now, as you were saying,

06:07it's Scottish Labour Party conference in Glasgow

06:09starting tomorrow.

06:11Myself and political editor Alistair Grant

06:13and deputy political editor David Ball,

06:14we are all going to be there this weekend

06:16to bring you all the latest news from that.

06:18But I would expect there to be a lot of discussion

06:20about the health service.

06:21I know that Jackie Bailey, for example,

06:23who you may have just seen walk behind me,

06:25she has got some panel events booked in.

06:28She's also got a few talks

06:29that she's been expected to make on the health service.

06:32So we will definitely hear some more

06:33about what Labour plans to do for the health service

06:36over the next few days,

06:37particularly because they have made this such a key issue

06:40for them when it comes to next year's

06:42Scottish Parliament election.

06:45Thank you very much for joining us

06:47and talking us through all that.

06:48You can read all the latest of our coverage

06:51to come out of First Minister's Questions at scotsman.com.

06:54We're running a live blog across it

06:57and the blow-by-blow details are in that.

06:59But there will also be more running on our site

07:01over the next 24 hours on health and the political fallout

07:07from what was discussed today as well.

07:09On top of that,

07:10there's some key council tax decisions being made today.

07:13We will know how much Edinburgh and Glasgow

07:16are going to be raising council tax,

07:18which will affect a lot of people,

07:20I'm sure, that are tuning in.

07:22So please follow us for all the latest

07:24and go out and buy a copy of The Scotsman tomorrow

07:27for the full package.

07:28Thanks to you, Rachel.

07:29Thanks to everyone else.

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