Iran two years after Mahsa Amini: Persecution and defiance

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00:00Our Chief Foreign Officer, Rob Parsons, is joining me here on set to discuss the latest.

00:04Rob, I suppose the crucial question is, two years after these huge demonstrations that rocked Iran,

00:09the launch of the Women's Freedom Movement, has the position of women in Iran improved?

00:16It's hard to say that it has. There was a moment two years ago, over a period of about three

00:21months from September to January 2023, when it really looked as though the regime was tottering.

00:28There were demonstrations right across the country, in places where normally you wouldn't

00:33expect to be very much political activity, right down in the far southeast, for instance,

00:37not just the big cities like Tehran. And the demonstration has sort of morphed from being a

00:43protest about women's rights, the Women Life Freedom Movement, to a movement that challenged

00:50the authority of the Supreme Leader himself, Ali Khamenei. But through a policy of violence

00:58against the demonstrators, which automatic rifle fire was used, hundreds were arrested,

01:03thousands were arrested, 550 people were killed, as you just pointed out, 19,200 were arrested,

01:1110 people were sentenced to death and executed, the most recent of which just a few months ago.

01:18The regime succeeded in beating the opposition down. In part, the opposition's failings were

01:27self-inflicted, they failed to unite around common themes, nationalists and monarchists

01:32and liberals were at each other's throats, and that made life easier for the government. But

01:38essentially, it was the brute force of the regime that managed to beat down the opposition

01:44and put it on the defensive ever since. Over the last year or so, we've seen an increase

01:50in attacks on women not wearing the veil, for instance, in public. Family members of those

01:58who were arrested in 2022 to 2023 harassed themselves. And the government, in the form

02:06of Ali Khamenei, the Supreme Leader, make it absolutely clear there will be no stepping back,

02:10as he put it, unveiling is both religiously forbidden and politically forbidden. That

02:15remains the position of the regime. Could more change be on the way, Rob? Let's not forget,

02:20July this year, Massoud Pazeshkian elected as President of Iran. He's seen as a reformer,

02:25isn't he? But has his administration approved at this stage any way to improve the situation

02:30for women at the moment? Hard to see that it has. Massoud Pazeshkian was elected in July of this

02:36year, an unexpected election, but his predecessor died in a helicopter crash. As you say, he

02:45campaigned as a reformer, and that raised some hopes, not great hopes, it has to be said, because

02:51there have been alleged reformer presidents in Iran before, and it's come to absolutely nothing,

02:57because real power resides with the Supreme Leader, not with the President. But he did campaign,

03:02among other things, for a loosening of the laws on wearing the veil or not wearing the veil in

03:09public. But in April, just before he was elected, a system called Nour, the light, was put in place

03:20to intensify the operations of the police against women not wearing the veil in public. He's done

03:28absolutely nothing, it would seem, to reverse that. Instead, these motorcycle groups of the police,

03:35sometimes on foot, sometimes in cars, have been harassing women to an even increased extent.

03:43And just going through Parliament now, there is a new bill called Support the Culture and

03:50Chastity of Hijab, which many see as a prelude to even more intensified repression of women.

03:55On the other hand, it is true that just a week ago, the Prosecutor General ordered the security

04:02services to show more restraint in their treatment of women who they encounter on the street who are

04:08not wearing the veil. Perhaps the authorities are trying to get some sort of balance, but overall,

04:15it seems that despite the election of an alleged reformer, the situation of women has not got

04:20any better at all.

04:21Rob, it all does sound rather depressing, doesn't it? I mean, two years ago, we had this big event.

04:26It led to mass protests, over 500 people killed, a lot more arrested. But are women basically back

04:34to where they were before Mahsa Remini died?

04:36Yeah, I mean, it is undoubtedly very depressing if you happen to be a woman living in Iran at the

04:42moment, because on the surface of things, in terms of legislation, it's not got any better at all.

04:49One could argue that it's got worse. But there has been, I think, an irrevocable change in the

04:55attitude of not just women on the issue of things like wearing the – or not wearing the veil in

05:01public, but also the attitude of society as a whole. There seems to have been an irrevocable

05:07change. The regime is still in power, but it's in power through the use of – essentially of

05:13brute force. It uses its coercive arm to keep society in place. It doesn't appear to have the

05:19support of society. I suppose the clearest evidence for that came in those elections that we were

05:24talking about just a moment ago in July, when Paz Eshkian became president. The regime devoted

05:33enormous resources to trying to get a big turnout, and yet the turnout was the lowest in the history

05:38of the Islamic Republic of Iran. Just under 40 percent of the electorate turned out to vote.

05:44That is a real indictment of the regime. So by and large, the regime has very little to offer.

05:51Women increasingly, in spite of the pressure on them, can be seen out on the streets, particularly

05:56after dusk, not wearing a veil, flaunting their decision to challenge the authority of the regime.

06:04At the same time, the regime has very little to offer back. In terms of socioeconomic achievement,

06:09nothing is moving forward. Inflation, unemployment incredibly high, sanctions still in place,

06:17and the regime doesn't seem to be offering anybody a way forward to make life better,

06:22either for women as a separate group or a society as a whole.

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