Two years after Mahsa Amini: 'Only path to freedom is justice by truth’, says Iranian journalist

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00:00We speak, a protest is taking place at the Place de Bastille in Paris in solidarity with those

00:05victims of Iran's repressive regime and in memory of Amini herself. To help put all of this into

00:11context, I'm joined now by Aida Gajar, senior journalist for Iran Wire, who comes to us from

00:17near the protests in Paris. Aida, thank you so much for joining us here on France 24.

00:23I believe you've been in contact with Massa Amini's family very recently.

00:28What are their messages that they've said to you about her death and now two years on,

00:34about the situation in Iran? Hi to you and hello to everyone that's hearing us. Maybe let me give

00:43you the information about the situation of Gina's family today. From this morning, the first hours

00:50of this morning, the police went to their houses and the family are not allowed to exit from their

00:57house. And the other member of family, they're coming to their house, they can exit, but not

01:04Gina's father, Gina's mother and Gina's brother. They told them if they went out from their house

01:11and they celebrate the second anniversary of Massa's death, there's going to be some punishment

01:19for them. We don't know what, but they were treated on them. So as I know, I confirmed today

01:26that the family, they're still in their house and the police is all the way. And even in the

01:33cemetery that Gina's grave is there, there are police and all the way to this cemetery is closed

01:41by police. So the situation and Saqqaz, it's a city of Gina's family, are there. And the other

01:49city of Kurdistan, some of them, Sanandaj maybe, and the other cities, they are full control by

01:56police and are helicopter above the house, above their cities and is under control of police

02:05because they thought if the family and the other citizens went together, gathering together,

02:13they can't control it. This speaks to the larger issue at Pleka in terms of the crackdown,

02:20which has continued so strongly since her death. There were hopes that it might

02:27be a little bit less, if you can say that, and soften, but it seems to have just been sustained.

02:34I want to get an impression from you as a journalist who is now living in Paris.

02:38If you had to try and go back to Iran right now, what would happen to you?

02:42For sure, in prison directly, but even worse, maybe, I have no idea if they can

02:49want to execute me as they execute Rouhallah Zahm, who was a refugee in Paris, and he went to

02:57Iraq and then the government, Iranian government, they capture him, they return him to Iran,

03:04they execute him. So the threat for other journalists, for other activists outside of

03:11Iran is ongoing. But myself, I'm not going to think about it every day, every minute, because

03:19the most important things that I'm going to do and I'm continuing to do, it's working as a

03:26journalist, because in my idea, the only path to freedom is justice by truth, and this is our job,

03:34this is our duty. And you try and do that duty with Iran. Can you just explain to our viewers

03:39what this publication is? Yeah, Iran Wire, it's a website, multimedia and website in Persian and

03:47English, and some other language also, as Kurdish, as Arabic, and some articles we publish on French

03:56also. We have a huge network of citizen journalists inside of Iran, as one of my citizen journalists

04:04who works with me directly, he was the person who gave me the identity of Massa the first day

04:11before her death. So we work directly with citizen journalists inside of Iran, and we're based on

04:19human rights and supporting a civil society in Iran. Now, those same human rights workers that

04:26you do get information from, a lot of them are involved in that UN fact-finding mission in March,

04:32which did find that many of the violations in the crackdown since Massa Amini's death have

04:38amounted to crimes against humanity. Not one official, though, has been brought to account.

04:45So where does this leave us? That's a huge, huge thing that happened, that fact-finding mission,

04:53they announced that we can go for a condemn this regime for a crime against humanity. This is the

05:01highest level of crime, international crime, that some governments can do. And this is ongoing

05:08things. That means, for example, if I can give you an example, before Massa, it was situation,

05:15by law, it was different. But after Massa, and after killing at least 500 protesters on the

05:21street, and after execution of at least nine protesters in prison, right now they're changing

05:31the law. That means, for example, if one woman without hijab go to restaurants and eat there,

05:39it's not going to be just a woman who punished by the law. It's going to be the owner of the

05:44restaurant also going to punish. And if they continue to accepting women without hijab,

05:50their restaurant can be closed by government. So the government, the strategy that they

05:58continue, and they force women under pressure and under violence, by legal violence, that they're

06:07going to punish women and society together. And they ask society to cooperate with them. For

06:14example, they should send a number of, a plaque of number of car who is on the street, and there's

06:22a woman without hijab. So the situation, it's maybe you can see the protesters on the street

06:28after this huge suppression that we passed. But the violence against women and against societies

06:36continue. Maybe it's interesting for you that I can tell you during two past years, they even

06:42closed the door of symmetry of the mass grave of political prisoners who have been killed,

06:50have been executed. In 1988, its name is Khabaran, they closed the door in front of the family of

06:59victims. They didn't let them in also, because the situation, the system, they are the same.

07:05They are the same people. They are the same mullahs that they just changed their position.

07:11So the system is the same, and they're going to find a way to control the society,

07:16and maybe lie to the world that we are going to change, and we change. But the reality is,

07:23they're not going to be changed. They are the same. But maybe even after a year, two years,

07:28we're going to face another movement in Iran, as we have many. And something else happened.

07:35For example, another victims, I hope not, but another victims and another situation.

07:43But the truth is, this system, they are against humanity. They made many crimes against humanity,

07:50as we have, in fact, finding mission by lawyers. They admit it, and we should think somehow how we

08:00can work and be active as a human rights activist and journalist to save lives and save

08:11society from more crimes. Aida, thank you so much. And this all comes as that protest is

08:18unfolding in Paris, just raising awareness still for the events going on in Iran under the new

08:24administration, it must be said, of Massoud Pazeshkian. So that's just certainly to keep

08:29an eye on in terms of the differences or none in Iran in the future. Aida, thank you so much

08:36for coming to us here on France 24. That's Aida Aghajar, senior journalist for the Iran Wire.

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