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00:00Speaking of the US presidential race, she signed her endorsement, Taylor Swift, childless
00:06cat lady, the pop icon, encouraging her 283 million Instagram followers to vote for Kamala
00:13Harris.
00:14Her post coming just in the wake of Tuesday's debate in Philadelphia.
00:19More now from Emerald Maxwell.
00:23Notching up more than two million likes in just 30 minutes, the post landed in the minutes
00:28following the Trump-Harris TV debate, which the singer said she tuned into.
00:34I'm voting for Kamala Harris because she fights for the rights and causes I believe need a
00:38warrior to champion them.
00:41With her hundreds of millions of loyal fans, Taylor Swift's endorsement has been hotly
00:46anticipated.
00:47Even as she told Swifties that quote, the choice was theirs to make, the Tennessee-born
00:52artist's opinion could well prove influential in the traditionally conservative Midwestern
00:57states.
00:58With two months to go till the election, her support comes at a good time for the Democrats.
01:03It'll lead to additional fundraising, it'll lead to broader voter registration, particularly
01:08in the young people, it'll raise the enthusiasm gap by a quantum.
01:13She is a cultural icon.
01:15Some advice to Donald Trump, don't disparage that endorsement at your own peril.
01:20Advice disregarded by the Republicans, with Trump telling Fox News that Swift would probably
01:26pay a price for her endorsement in the marketplace, and the Republican camp quick to dismiss her
01:31influence.
01:32I think like me, most Americans want liberals to make their music and conservatives to make
01:37their laws and their policy.
01:38Let singers do what singers choose to do.
01:41Ironically what inspired the singer to speak up, she said, was discovering AI-generated
01:46images of her falsely endorsing Trump, which she shared on his social media platform, explaining
01:52quote, that the simplest way to combat misinformation is with the truth.
01:58For more, let's go to Birmingham, England, sociologist Ellis Cashmore is the author of
02:03Celebrity Culture.
02:05Thank you for speaking with us here on France 24.
02:08I'm glad to be with you, Francois.
02:10What is a Taylor Swift endorsement worth?
02:13Well, I think the people have priced her endorsement into this some while ago.
02:21I mean, everybody knows that she is a Kamala Harris fan and supports her.
02:26It was just waiting for the official stamp of approval, really.
02:30But I'm not so sure that it really does mean that much, you know, Francois.
02:35I think historically, all manner of celebrity endorsements for politicians have really looked
02:42good on paper, but I'm not sure that they've ever translated into votes apart from one
02:48very significant difference.
02:52And that was in 2007, when Oprah Winfrey gave her official endorsement of Barack Obama.
02:58And that was phenomenal.
03:00This was at the height of Oprah's influence, she's probably the most influential person
03:04in the world.
03:06And even then, I'm not so sure that it made that much difference.
03:10I mean, Obama would have probably won the election in any case.
03:15Whether Taylor Swift will make a significant difference, I'm still unsure.
03:20I mean, you've got to look at her demographic.
03:24Most of her followers are under 18.
03:26Let's say 30 percent, as a guesstimate, are under the age of 18.
03:30So they can't vote anyway.
03:32And then at the other extreme of the spectrum, those aged 40 and over.
03:38And she's she still has a great many fans, even my age, who are great followers of hers.
03:44So she is a phenomenon.
03:45But those age 40 will already have their political opinions and won't necessarily be swayed by
03:52hers.
03:53That leaves the 50 percent in the middle between the ages of, say, 18 to 40.
04:00How many of those are going to change opinion?
04:03I think probably not many, but they probably all are committed to the Democratic Party
04:10in any case, because everybody knows that she is a Kamala supporter anyway.
04:16There is this added layer of complication, if you will, if you're running for office
04:21in the United States, and that is young people have a tendency to vote less.
04:25So in that respect.
04:26And that will change, Francois, because I think that if there is going to be some profound
04:32change as a result of Taylor Swift's endorsement, it will be that people will get out and vote
04:41They might not otherwise have thought about it, but they will take notice of Taylor Swift.
04:48How they will vote in which direction, I'm not so sure.
04:52I suspect 99 point something percent of the Taylor Swift fans will vote Democrat anyway.
05:00Not simply because she does, but because she is a known Democrat anyway.
05:05And they would have had those kind of democratic inclinations in the first place.
05:11But you know, I don't want to sound too negative about Taylor Swift's endorsement.
05:17She is a phenomenon.
05:18And I'm old enough to remember Michael Jackson, Madonna.
05:21I go all the way back to Beatles and Elvis.
05:24And they were hugely influential celebrities.
05:28But I think Taylor Swift can punch away with any of those.
05:31You penned a piece in 2022 where you pointed to a Wall Street Journal poll that found that
05:3844 percent of the adult U.S. population considered themselves Swifties.
05:44I don't know if that's probably even gone up or not since.
05:48Probably gone up somewhat since then.
05:51You know, Francois, let me let me speculate for a little bit.
05:55And she does have this wide constituency of fans.
05:58You're absolutely right about that.
06:00And it probably has broadened.
06:02But I see the significance of this this development, let's call it last night.
06:09Not so much in how much she can influence this election, but what bearing it has on
06:16the next election in 2028.
06:19By that time, Swift herself will be 39.
06:23Now, I'm wondering if this is advance notice that she intends to be a political presence
06:30in the future.
06:32You think she might even run for office herself?
06:35That's what I'm getting at.
06:37Yes.
06:38OK.
06:39How come this?
06:41Well, you sound surprised and I expect a viewer or most of our viewers will be surprised that
06:48I'm even suggesting it anyway.
06:50But we've entered a new era in politics.
06:54Ten years before Donald Trump ran, it would have seemed absolutely preposterous that a
06:59guy who was a talk show host, you know, the guy behind The Apprentice, would be running
07:05for office and eventually become president.
07:09It would be ridiculous for a man without any political experience to occupy the most influential,
07:16the most powerful political office in the world.
07:20Taylor Swift has the advantage of massive influence, global influence.
07:27She has the hearts and minds of hundreds of millions of fans.
07:33As they mature, their political opinions will take shape.
07:39And she may be around, and I think she will be around in a musical entertainment sense,
07:45but she may be around to help people understand politics.
07:51I don't dismiss celebrities in politics.
07:54I think that they do have a way of making people think hard.
07:59Oprah did it fantastically well, making them think hard, even if they don't agree with
08:04the celebrity.
08:06They forced people to to ruminate about the problems that beset the world.
08:13And I think Taylor Swift is poised to do precisely that over the years to come.
08:17Ellis Cashmore, a question, you know, celebrities and activism, it waxes and wanes.
08:26We saw in the 1960s, celebrities were very engaged.
08:31Then we had in the 1980s, the likes of Michael Jordan saying that Republicans, too, buy sneakers.
08:38So he didn't want to get too involved in politics.
08:41Today we've seen on social media, a lot of athletes, a lot of music stars do get involved.
08:47Why is that?
08:49There's more activism among celebrities than in previous years.
08:53Well, first, there are two reasons.
08:56One, because the athletes themselves have begun to realize the power that they have
09:01to influence people and want to wield that power, not just in in sports, but in show
09:08business generally.
09:09That's a double edged sword.
09:11I mean, Donald Trump saying that, saying that she would, that Taylor Swift will pay a price
09:17for this is what he said.
09:18Well, what?
09:20Let me just finish the argument, if I may, Francois, and I will certainly return to your
09:24point.
09:25It is a double edged sword, as you say.
09:29The celebrities do it for two reasons, one, because many of them are authentically concerned
09:35and genuine.
09:36Others believe that the days of celebrities as just celebrities are over and people demand
09:44more from them.
09:45They want thinking, feeling celebrities who know about the world and have an opinion about
09:53the world and perhaps are in a position to exercise that opinion to the good.
09:59And so celebrities themselves, sport and entertainment and beyond, have begun to to
10:07disclose what their feelings are.
10:09And we, the public, the audiences are demanding that because the days of privacy are over
10:15when the likes of Hollywood stars could really think, I'm not going to reveal how I think
10:21and feel politically.
10:22Those are my concerns and they're private.
10:25The days of privacy are gone.
10:28Audiences demand to know what's going on inside celebrities heads.
10:32And so the celebrities either have to respond and and reveal the way they're thinking and
10:39feeling or perish.
10:42In the case of Taylor Swift, will it be bad for her business?
10:44Will she lose record sales from those who like Donald Trump?
10:49I don't believe so.
10:52I think that the people who already are the followers of Taylor Swift, who buy the concert
10:59tickets and the downloads and the movies, the movie tickets, I believe that they already
11:07know what Taylor Swift's political inclinations are.
11:12And they would have fallen out with her a long time ago if they disagreed severely.
11:17Some of them may be persuaded by her.
11:20Others might feel neutral.
11:22Even the Trump supporters, who now know officially that she is not in favor of Donald Trump,
11:28I think that they will still remain fans.
11:31So I don't think that this, you know, that edge of the sword, to use your metaphor, is
11:35going to cut into her sales or indeed her popularity in years to come.
11:41Ellis Cashmore, the author of Celebrity Culture, thank you so much for joining us from Birmingham.
11:44My pleasure, Francois.