Patty Murray Leads Senate Appropriations Committee Hearing On Army's FY25 Budget Request

5 months ago

Sen. Patty Murray (D-WA) chairs a Senate Appropriations Committee hearing on the President's fiscal year 2025 budget request for the Army.

Fuel your success with Forbes. Gain unlimited access to premium journalism, including breaking news, groundbreaking in-depth reported stories, daily digests and more. Plus, members get a front-row seat at members-only events with leading thinkers and doers, access to premium video that can help you get ahead, an ad-light experience, early access to select products including NFT drops and more:

https://account.forbes.com/membership/?utm_source=youtube&utm_medium=display&utm_campaign=growth_non-sub_paid_subscribe_ytdescript

Stay Connected
Forbes on Facebook: http://fb.com/forbes
Forbes Video on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/forbes
Forbes Video on Instagram: http://instagram.com/forbes
More From Forbes: http://forbes.com

Transcript

00:00:00The committee will come to order.

00:00:02Welcome back, Secretary Wormuth.

00:00:04We appreciate your leadership of our nation's Army

00:00:06and we look forward to discussing with you

00:00:08the Army's budget priorities for fiscal year 2025,

00:00:12and welcome, General George,

00:00:14to your first hearing before this subcommittee.

00:00:17I'm interested to hear your perspectives

00:00:18and we look forward to hearing from you.

00:00:21The fiscal year 2025 budget request

00:00:23for the Department of the Army is $180.3 billion,

00:00:27excluding funds for MilCon,

00:00:29which is the same level as the enacted number

00:00:32for fiscal year 2024.

00:00:35Fiscal 24, once again, and unfortunately, unsurprisingly,

00:00:40began under a continuing resolution,

00:00:42which ended up lasting for a full six months.

00:00:45Our entire military is affected by CRs,

00:00:48but coupled with a months-long delay

00:00:50in enacting the National Security Supplemental,

00:00:53the Army was doubly affected.

00:00:55Because you were unable to replace weapons systems

00:00:57you donated to Ukraine with modern capabilities.

00:01:01I'm glad that Congress finally got its act together

00:01:03and passed the National Security Supplemental,

00:01:05but just like the regular appropriations bill,

00:01:07it was needlessly delayed by many months.

00:01:11Worldwide challenges and threats are constantly evolving,

00:01:14and as we discussed last year,

00:01:16the Army's response to the increasingly complex

00:01:18battlefield of the future

00:01:19is to transform into the Army of 2030.

00:01:22This transformation includes investments in people,

00:01:25the reorganization of forces,

00:01:27the development of new equipment,

00:01:28and the adoption of new concepts to defeat adversaries.

00:01:32We can best help the Army on its path to modernization

00:01:35through the timely enactment of a defense appropriations bill

00:01:38for fiscal year 2025.

00:01:40One-time appropriations provide the resource predictability,

00:01:44on-time, excuse me, on-time appropriations

00:01:46provide the resource predictability

00:01:49that enable the Army to execute training

00:01:51and operational plans effectively

00:01:53for the entire fiscal year.

00:01:54I look forward to working with Senator Murray

00:01:58and, of course, the real chairman, Senator Tester,

00:02:01to position us for success to getting a budget passed on time.

00:02:05Once again, I want to thank each of you

00:02:06for your service to our country.

00:02:08Before you make your opening statements,

00:02:10I'll turn it over to the Vice Chair,

00:02:11Senator Collins, for her remarks.

00:02:13Thank you very much, Chairman Schatz,

00:02:16and welcome to your new role on this subcommittee.

00:02:22Secretary Wormuth, it's great to see you again.

00:02:26General George, as this is your first time

00:02:29testifying before our subcommittee,

00:02:32I want to welcome you.

00:02:34Thank you both for your service and your leadership.

00:02:39One of my chief concerns for the Army this year

00:02:43remains the same as it was last year, and that is recruiting.

00:02:49Madam Secretary, I commend you and the Chief

00:02:54for your steadfast refusal

00:02:56to compromise on recruiting standards,

00:02:59and I understand from your written testimony

00:03:03that the results of the future soldier prep course

00:03:07continue to be promising.

00:03:10Nevertheless, the Army either missed its recruiting objectives

00:03:16or lowered them in three of the last five years.

00:03:20The proposed active duty and strength

00:03:23represents the smallest active duty Army

00:03:28since the start of the volunteer force in 1973.

00:03:34It is substantially less than the Army's goal

00:03:39of 470,000 soldiers by the year 2029.

00:03:45I look forward to hearing how the Army

00:03:48is updating its recruiting approach

00:03:51and what resources are included in your budget requests

00:03:55to recruit enough qualified men and women.

00:03:59While the National Security Strategy's primary focus

00:04:04is competition with China, Army soldiers,

00:04:07along with our sailors and Marines,

00:04:10are in harm's way today in the Middle East.

00:04:14It is also the Army, more than any other service,

00:04:19that is providing the lion's share of equipment

00:04:23and training to help Ukraine's own Army defeat and defend

00:04:29against Russia's brutal invasion.

00:04:33I would ask our witnesses to clearly articulate

00:04:37how the Army's proposed modernization efforts

00:04:41and force structure changes will improve the Army's posture

00:04:46to address these growing threats.

00:04:49In particular, I'm interested in hearing more

00:04:53about how you plan to integrate robotic and unmanned systems

00:04:59into your future formations using platforms

00:05:02like the Robotic Combat Vehicle, a very innovative company

00:05:08in Maine, I'm pleased to say.

00:05:10How and how is contributing to this critical technology.

00:05:16General George, counter-drone technology

00:05:19is also at the top of your unfunded priorities list.

00:05:24I hope you will share with us in greater detail

00:05:29your prioritization of those capabilities,

00:05:33since I share your view on their importance.

00:05:37The recently passed supplemental bill

00:05:40included more than $380 million for Army counter-drone systems,

00:05:47none of which I would know was included

00:05:50in the original supplemental request.

00:05:53So I'm glad that working with Chairman Murray and Chairman

00:05:57Tester, that we have been able to address that critical need.

00:06:04It's important as we deal with the attacks against Israel

00:06:09and against our forces that are in harm's way

00:06:13from the threats posed by Iran and its proxies.

00:06:17Let me give you one illustration of why these investments are

00:06:21so important.

00:06:22The son of one of the most experienced workers

00:06:26at an ornament plant in Saco, Maine

00:06:30was deployed with the Army in the Middle East

00:06:33after October 7th.

00:06:35His Army unit was protected from these inbound drones

00:06:40by the very weapon systems built in Saco.

00:06:45So we must never forget that there are real lives at stake.

00:06:50And that is why it's so critical that we continue

00:06:54to modernize and invest in the defense industrial base,

00:06:59since we've seen firsthand that warfare

00:07:02has changed dramatically.

00:07:05Finally, I would ask both of our witnesses

00:07:08to provide an update on how this budget request builds

00:07:12upon the progress from the fiscal year 24 supplemental

00:07:17to expand munition production and strengthen

00:07:21our industrial base.

00:07:23We've made a lot of good progress,

00:07:25but there's still much work to be done.

00:07:28I look forward to hearing your testimony.

00:07:30Thank you for being here.

00:07:32Thank you, Vice Chair Collins.

00:07:33Secretary Wormuth, please proceed with your testimony.

00:07:37Good morning, Senator Schatz, Vice Chair Collins,

00:07:39distinguished members of the committee.

00:07:41Thank you for your continued support of our soldiers,

00:07:44Army civilians, and their families.

00:07:46General George and I appear before you today

00:07:49at a moment of profound transformation

00:07:50for the United States Army.

00:07:52We're transforming our capabilities,

00:07:54our force structure, and our recruiting enterprise

00:07:57to ensure the Army is ready and able

00:07:59to defeat evolving threats, keep pace with technology,

00:08:03and attract the very best talent.

00:08:05As we pursue this transformation,

00:08:07we're also taking care of our people,

00:08:09ensuring that our soldiers and families

00:08:11have the quality of life that they deserve

00:08:13to sustain our readiness now and in the future.

00:08:16This is my fourth year in front of this committee,

00:08:19and like last year, the Army's 25 budget

00:08:22continues to support the most ambitious modernization effort

00:08:25the Army has undertaken in more than 40 years.

00:08:29We're making significant progress, I'm pleased to report,

00:08:32in transforming our capabilities

00:08:34by staying consistent in our goals

00:08:36and meeting key milestones for development and fielding.

00:08:39The Next Generation Squad Weapon,

00:08:41Integrated Battle Command System,

00:08:43Mid-Range Capability, and Precision Strike Missile

00:08:46are just some examples of the critical new systems

00:08:49that we've recently delivered.

00:08:51As we bring these new systems into our inventory,

00:08:54we're also transforming our force structure

00:08:56to meet the priorities of the National Defense Strategy.

00:08:59We're building out new formations,

00:09:01such as our five multi-domain task forces,

00:09:04that are equipped with the capabilities we need

00:09:07to conduct large-scale combat operations

00:09:09against technologically advanced military powers.

00:09:13And we're shrinking excess force structure

00:09:15so that the units we have are manned and ready.

00:09:18While these force structure decisions

00:09:20bring down authorized troop levels

00:09:22by about 24,000 spaces,

00:09:25our goal is to increase our authorized end strength

00:09:27to 470,000 by the fiscal year 2029.

00:09:33To meet that goal, General George and I

00:09:35and the whole Army team are working around the clock

00:09:38to overcome our recruiting challenges,

00:09:40and we're making solid progress.

00:09:42Building on successful initiatives

00:09:44like the Future Soldier Prep Course,

00:09:46we're fundamentally transforming our recruiting enterprise

00:09:48to better compete in the 21st century job market.

00:09:52Most significantly, we are redesigning

00:09:54our recruiting workforce by creating new,

00:09:57permanent, specialized recruiters

00:09:59for both enlisted soldiers and warrant officers.

00:10:03And actually, the assessment and selection

00:10:05of the first class of warrant officers

00:10:07focused on recruiting is finished,

00:10:09and they will be going out into the field later this summer.

00:10:13But while we transform, we can't lose sight

00:10:15of taking care of our soldiers and families.

00:10:17A key part of this responsibility

00:10:20is providing safe, high-quality housing and barracks.

00:10:23So over the next five years,

00:10:24the Army will invest on average $2.1 billion every year

00:10:29in the construction, sustainment, restoration,

00:10:32and modernization of barracks for unaccompanied soldiers.

00:10:35This investment will fund barracks sustainment

00:10:38at 100% for the first time in years.

00:10:41And we are leveraging the expertise

00:10:43of the Army Corps of Engineers to stabilize project costs,

00:10:46and we're hiring civilian barracks managers

00:10:49so that our soldiers can focus

00:10:50on more fighting responsibilities.

00:10:53Physically and emotionally healthy soldiers

00:10:55are more resilient, higher performing,

00:10:57and less likely to engage in harmful behaviors.

00:11:00To build resilient soldiers,

00:11:02we're expanding our holistic health and fitness program

00:11:05to 71 active component brigades.

00:11:08We're investing in financial counseling services

00:11:10to ensure that our soldiers know how to manage their money.

00:11:13And we're encouraging programs in our divisions

00:11:16that focus on soldier well-being.

00:11:19Our goal has been and remains building cohesive teams

00:11:22that can fight and win.

00:11:24Throughout this transformation,

00:11:25which is required given the very dangerous world

00:11:28in which we live,

00:11:29we're continuing to provide combatant commands

00:11:31with trained and ready formations.

00:11:34This year's budget seeks $1.5 billion

00:11:37for activities tied to the Pacific Deterrence Initiative,

00:11:40and we've asked for $460 million

00:11:43for Operation Pacific Pathways,

00:11:45our series of exercises focused

00:11:47on strengthening deterrence and interoperability

00:11:50with partners in the Indo-Pacific.

00:11:52In Europe, our troops are demonstrating our commitment

00:11:55to deterring Russian aggression.

00:11:57As you said, Vice Chairman Collins,

00:11:59the Army is leading the effort to support Ukraine,

00:12:02from training over 17,000 Ukrainian troops

00:12:05to providing hundreds of vehicles, weapons systems,

00:12:08and millions of munitions.

00:12:10And in the Middle East, our soldiers are mission-focused

00:12:13and have been hard at work building the floating pier

00:12:16to deliver more humanitarian aid in Gaza.

00:12:20The Chief and I appreciate

00:12:21the recently passed Supplemental Appropriations Bill

00:12:24that will maintain our critical support to Ukraine,

00:12:26support partners in Asia and the Middle East,

00:12:29and invest in our own readiness,

00:12:31and we strongly urge going forward

00:12:33the passing of on-time annual appropriation bills

00:12:36that will maintain our readiness in this volatile time.

00:12:40With your support, we'll continue to take care of our people

00:12:42and sustain the Army's transformation

00:12:45that will keep us the best Army in the world.

00:12:47I'm proud of all that our soldiers

00:12:49and Army civilians are doing

00:12:50and look forward to your questions this morning.

00:12:53Thank you very much, Secretary Wormuth.

00:12:55General George, please proceed.

00:12:58Thank you.

00:12:59Senator Schatz, Vice Chair Collins,

00:13:01distinguished members of the committee,

00:13:02thank you for the opportunity

00:13:04to talk with you today about our Army.

00:13:07The world is more volatile today

00:13:08than I've seen it in my 36-year career,

00:13:11and there is clearer cooperation between adversaries

00:13:15than we've seen in a while.

00:13:16A spark in any region could have global impacts.

00:13:20Meanwhile, the character of war is changing rapidly,

00:13:23which we see from what is happening on the battlefields

00:13:26in Ukraine and the Middle East.

00:13:29Our Army is as important to the Joint Force

00:13:33as it has ever been.

00:13:34We must deter war everywhere

00:13:36and be ready to respond anywhere.

00:13:38So we are focused on providing the best Army

00:13:40with the budget we are given.

00:13:42Our soldiers deserve it.

00:13:43Our joint teammates deserve it,

00:13:45and our nation deserves it.

00:13:47And that means making some tough decisions

00:13:49and finding ways to get better every day.

00:13:52As the Secretary already highlighted,

00:13:53our planned investments reflected in our FY25 budget

00:13:57will help our Army win the future fight

00:13:59and ensure that our soldiers and their families

00:14:01remain ready and resilient.

00:14:03Across the Army, we are learning from global events

00:14:06and continuously transforming how we operate,

00:14:09how we train, and how we equip.

00:14:12And I'd like to highlight a handful of things.

00:14:14We're learning that designs for things like unmanned systems

00:14:18must be modular, adaptable, and software-defined.

00:14:22We are working to get relevant technology

00:14:24into the hands of soldiers immediately.

00:14:27We are learning that counter-unmanned systems

00:14:29must evolve as a threat does

00:14:30to protect our formations and critical infrastructure.

00:14:34We're also moving out on that

00:14:36while being mindful of the cost curve.

00:14:38We need cheaper solutions.

00:14:41We are learning that in some cases

00:14:42the right tech already exists to support transformation.

00:14:46For instance, the tech exists

00:14:48to make our command and control nodes more mobile,

00:14:50lower signature, and more effective.

00:14:53We are fixing our network.

00:14:56And we are building our magazine depth

00:14:58and modernizing our organic industrial base

00:15:00because we know that wars never end as quickly as we hope.

00:15:04They take a lot of ammo.

00:15:06We are also transforming how we recruit,

00:15:09ensuring that we have the right talent

00:15:11and the right tech and that we are getting the word out

00:15:14about how our Army is a great place to serve

00:15:16because of our mission and our people.

00:15:20Finally, we are also looking at where we need

00:15:22to reimagine our processes

00:15:24and where we can afford to stop doing things

00:15:26that don't support our warfighting mission

00:15:29or building cohesive teams.

00:15:31I'm proud of what our soldiers are doing around the world

00:15:33to help defend our country.

00:15:35Thank you all for your support

00:15:36and we look forward to your questions.

00:15:41Thank you very much, General George.

00:15:43Secretary Wormuth,

00:15:45last year you visited Schofield Barracks on Oahu

00:15:48and after touring where soldiers live,

00:15:51you said to the press, and I'll quote,

00:15:53"'I wasn't happy with what I saw, frankly.

00:15:56"'Those are the kinds of things that I want us to get after.'"

00:15:59Tell me what you saw and tell me what you're doing about it.

00:16:03Thank you, Senator Schatz.

00:16:05I've seen a lot of barracks over the last three plus years,

00:16:09so I'm not sure if I'll remember

00:16:11exactly what I saw at Schofield,

00:16:13but what I've seen and what I probably saw there

00:16:15was struggles with water on the floor, humidity.

00:16:19I remember meeting one soldier in his barracks room

00:16:23and it looked like he had just stepped out of the shower

00:16:25in his bathroom, but in fact,

00:16:26the water was seeping through the floor

00:16:29because of issues with the foundation.

00:16:31And as you know well,

00:16:33some of the barracks at Schofield are pretty old.

00:16:35And so what we're doing is investing $2.1 million a year

00:16:40in barracks, whether it's construction for new barracks,

00:16:44whether it's renovating barracks we already have,

00:16:46or sustaining barracks at 100%,

00:16:49which is something we have not done in a long time.

00:16:52And I think all of that together

00:16:55will help us significantly decrease

00:16:58the amount in our inventory of barracks

00:17:01that are kind of at an unacceptable condition.

00:17:04I will be honest with you,

00:17:06we have a huge inventory of barracks

00:17:08and we're going to,

00:17:10even with all of that money that we're investing,

00:17:13we really need to invest more in barracks,

00:17:16but everything, we've got to figure out

00:17:18where that incremental dollar goes,

00:17:19but I think this will do a lot.

00:17:21So the 2 billion a year at 100%, right?

00:17:26So let me try to understand this.

00:17:28This is FSRM money?

00:17:30Yes.

00:17:31Okay, not MilCon.

00:17:32Well, the 2.1 billion is the total.

00:17:34There is MilCon, there is FSRM, that's a total.

00:17:38I got it.

00:17:39But within that, we are sustaining at 100%,

00:17:42as opposed to 85%, which is what we typically do.

00:17:45And how does that work on your,

00:17:48I'm sure you have a sort of wedge analysis

00:17:50to get to where you want to go.

00:17:54How many years of that level of investment

00:17:56would get us to something

00:17:59that you would consider acceptable?

00:18:01I think it's gonna take us several years, Senator,

00:18:04because as you know,

00:18:05property just depreciates continuously over time.

00:18:08So the 100% sustainment will help slow

00:18:11that steady decrease in quality,

00:18:15but we are going to have to make these kinds of investments

00:18:18for multiple years.

00:18:19Sorry to interrupt.

00:18:20Could you get us some fidelity on,

00:18:22you have an inflation number that you now have to work with,

00:18:26and then you have the normal depreciation,

00:18:28and then you, so I'm,

00:18:32your answer is several years,

00:18:33but I'd like to know if it's 4 1⁄2 or 6 1⁄2 or 2 1⁄2,

00:18:37because I think the committee needs to know,

00:18:39in case there is a desire to spend more

00:18:42on this kind of thing,

00:18:44what would get us to a better baseline?

00:18:46We can get that for you.

00:18:47Thank you very much.

00:18:48General George, I have been a fan of Pacific Pathways

00:18:52for a very, very long time.

00:18:54I wanna give you a couple of examples

00:18:55of how cost-effective it is.

00:18:57Of course, you know this, but this is really for staff.

00:19:00$18 million in 2023,

00:19:02the Army built partner capacity in the Philippines

00:19:04through Exercise Balacatan.

00:19:06In 2019, the Army spent $823,000 in Palau

00:19:11conducting joint homeland defense drills,

00:19:14community health outreach, and repairing infrastructure.

00:19:17Can you just tell the public,

00:19:19tell the committee about the cost-effectiveness

00:19:22of Pacific Pathways?

00:19:23I've never seen, especially in this committee,

00:19:26something so inexpensive and high-impact.

00:19:32Your mic's not on.

00:19:35Pathways is incredibly effective for us

00:19:38out in the Pacific.

00:19:40I mean, right now,

00:19:41what USARPAC is doing in the Philippines

00:19:43is they basically are taking an exportable training package

00:19:47that's out there and helping to train those formations.

00:19:51We have the same thing in reverse

00:19:52when we have all of our partners and allies

00:19:56that are coming to Hawaii to train,

00:19:59which is very effective for our relationships

00:20:01that are out there in the Pacific.

00:20:03But all of those exercises, I would say,

00:20:05are building our interoperability,

00:20:08they're building trust with our partners and allies

00:20:11that are out there, and they're building real capability.

00:20:14We're also using them, just to your cost-effectiveness,

00:20:19to help us transform.

00:20:20I mean, some of the things that we're doing

00:20:21out there right now with 25th ID

00:20:24that's been out there using unmanned systems

00:20:27to deliver ammunition, so use it on the logistics side.

00:20:31So we could go on a long time about what the impact

00:20:35we think that that's having out there.

00:20:36Two thoughts.

00:20:37First of all, the soldiers also love it.

00:20:39They love it.

00:20:40And that's not a trivial aspect of this program.

00:20:43The other thing is, if you can get us some data

00:20:47on how much more you could do with more resources,

00:20:49that would be very helpful.

00:20:51Vice Chair Collins.

00:20:53Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

00:20:55Secretary Worm, we discussed just recently in my office

00:21:02the horrific mass shooting that occurred

00:21:06last October 25th in the state of Maine,

00:21:10the worst mass shooting in our state's history,

00:21:14in which 18 individuals died and another 13 were injured.

00:21:20The killer, Robert Card, was a Sergeant First Class

00:21:25in the U.S. Army Reserve.

00:21:28The governor of Maine has established

00:21:30an independent commission that has already issued

00:21:34an interim report, and that report includes

00:21:38several very troubling findings about missed opportunities

00:21:43to prevent this tragedy.

00:21:46So I want to ensure that we're taking every action necessary

00:21:52to try to lessen or prevent the chances

00:21:57of such a tragedy ever happening again.

00:22:01Secretary Austin has committed to working with me

00:22:05in drafting legislation that would require

00:22:09our military services to report

00:22:12to the appropriate authorities when a service member

00:22:16poses a threat to him or herself or to others

00:22:21while protecting the Second Amendment rights

00:22:24of our service members.

00:22:26But to draft the most effective legislation,

00:22:31I very much need the results of the review

00:22:35that the Army Reserve has undertaken,

00:22:39as well as the investigation that I requested

00:22:43from the Inspector General.

00:22:46Originally, the Army Reserve's administrative review

00:22:51was supposed to be completed by mid-January,

00:22:55and we expected to have the IG's report

00:23:00by the end of February.

00:23:02Could you please update me on when we can expect

00:23:06those two critical reports?

00:23:08Certainly, and Senator, first of all, I would say,

00:23:11my heart goes out to all of the families in Maine

00:23:13that lost people and that were affected

00:23:16by the terrible shooting.

00:23:17It was truly tragic.

00:23:20You will be able to expect, I think,

00:23:22the Army Reserve investigation in a couple more weeks.

00:23:25It has been, as we talked about, very comprehensive.

00:23:28There are over, I think, 3,000 pages of interviews

00:23:32with witnesses and documents that they've collected,

00:23:35which is partly why it takes them so long,

00:23:37but it should be done in a couple more weeks.

00:23:40And then, I think the separate review being done

00:23:43by our Army Inspector General

00:23:46will follow shortly after that.

00:23:48Thank you.

00:23:49I look forward to working with you on the legislation

00:23:54and would love to have your commitment for that as well.

00:23:58We look forward to working with you on your legislation.

00:24:01Thank you.

00:24:02General George, there are those who are against assistance

00:24:07to Ukraine, in particular,

00:24:09that contend that our defense industrial base

00:24:13cannot build enough air defense patriots, for example,

00:24:18or artillery rounds to support Ukraine and Israel

00:24:23while also meeting the Army's own requirements

00:24:27for these systems, even after the substantial investment

00:24:32from the supplemental.

00:24:34And I'm a very strong supporter

00:24:37of assisting both Ukraine and Israel.

00:24:41The implication of this line of argument

00:24:46is that we should end our security assistance to Ukraine

00:24:52because we can't take care of our own Army's needs as well.

00:24:57So let me ask you directly,

00:25:00can the Army and our allies effectively manage

00:25:05the risk to the Army's munitions stockpiles,

00:25:08particularly for air defense and artillery,

00:25:12while also providing assistance to Ukraine and Israel?

00:25:18Senator, I think we can.

00:25:21I do wanna say thanks on the supplemental.

00:25:24I think, obviously, the most important thing for us

00:25:27is on-time funding so we can get things

00:25:30we struggled a little bit with that over this last year.

00:25:33And we are, what we need to do is what we're on the path

00:25:36to do is also continuing to invest

00:25:40in our organic industrial base.

00:25:43And we can get examples for like 155,

00:25:47where we're producing a little over 30,000 rounds a month.

00:25:51And by the beginning of 26,

00:25:54we'll be producing over 100,000 rounds a month.

00:25:57So that's what we need to do.

00:25:58We need to continue to invest in that

00:26:02in addition to what we're supplying to those efforts.

00:26:07Thank you.

00:26:09Senator Moran.

00:26:10Chairman, thank you.

00:26:11Thank you, Ranking Member, Vice Chairman.

00:26:14Secretary, General George, welcome.

00:26:17Welcome to your debut hearing in the appropriations process.

00:26:22Last October, the Undersecretary announced

00:26:25a digital engineering strategy

00:26:28to optimize sustainment across the services.

00:26:32I understand the Army, just this morning,

00:26:35signed a policy to help accelerate

00:26:37the adoption of digital engineering.

00:26:40My view is that these tools are incredibly important

00:26:43for designing and building new platforms

00:26:45and sustaining existing systems.

00:26:48Secretary, can you tell the committee

00:26:51a little bit more about the forthcoming policy

00:26:54and how the Army's previous digital engineering work

00:26:56informs the adoption of this capability?

00:27:00Thank you, Senator Moran.

00:27:01It's good to see you, and we are excited

00:27:03about our new digital engineering policy.

00:27:06Basically, what we're trying to do

00:27:08is make it easier for the Army

00:27:10to adopt digital engineering approaches

00:27:13more broadly at scale across the Army.

00:27:17This is the kind of work that allows us

00:27:19to do modeling and simulation

00:27:22and explore engineering challenges

00:27:25using computer simulations,

00:27:27which is more efficient and less costly.

00:27:29For example, our program to replace

00:27:32the Bradley fighting vehicle, the XM-30 program,

00:27:35is incorporating digital engineering

00:27:38in its development work.

00:27:40The policy has a number of different components,

00:27:43but its broad goal is to help us use

00:27:46that important approach more broadly

00:27:50so that we can be more effective

00:27:51in our modernization programs.

00:27:54Thank you for that answer.

00:27:55General George, I would guess

00:27:57that the Senator from Connecticut, Senator Murphy,

00:28:00will ask you about the future

00:28:02long-range assault aircraft and its safety.

00:28:06I want to inform you that I support the decision

00:28:10to award Beltextron the contract for Flora.

00:28:14This is an aircraft that maneuvers

00:28:16like a helicopter in vertical flight,

00:28:18flies twice as far and twice as fast

00:28:20as current helicopters.

00:28:22All of this needs to be done

00:28:23with a safe piece of equipment.

00:28:25The aircraft competitively selected by the Army

00:28:28was the only one that fully met those requirements,

00:28:31and that was validated by the GAO.

00:28:34Would you highlight for the committee

00:28:35the importance of speed and maneuverability

00:28:37this aircraft provides,

00:28:39as well as how the Army plans

00:28:40to leverage its open system architecture?

00:28:44Yes, Senator.

00:28:46It can't come fast enough for me.

00:28:49So I think this is gonna be a game-changing

00:28:53for this aircraft, just for what you talked about,

00:28:56the range it's gonna have, the speed it's gonna have.

00:29:00And then with open architecture,

00:29:01what we can do with manned, unmanned teaming,

00:29:05launch defects, all the other things

00:29:08that are gonna come with this.

00:29:09So I think it's gonna increase our capabilities.

00:29:14Thank you.

00:29:17Secretary, TAA highlighted several capabilities

00:29:21requiring significant investments

00:29:24at a time in which the Army budget,

00:29:26probably for this fiscal year,

00:29:27represents about FY22 levels.

00:29:31I hear that there's a potential

00:29:34of establishment of new structures, or a new structure,

00:29:38like a drone branch or a permanent ABCT in Poland.

00:29:43Would the simultaneous establishment

00:29:45of additional units not planned for in previous

00:29:49airstrucks be disruptive to the Army's

00:29:52current plans to modernize?

00:29:55Thank you, Senator.

00:29:56I think it would be challenging to generate, for example,

00:29:59a whole new armored brigade combat team,

00:30:02given the recruiting challenges that we're working through.

00:30:05And like I said, I wanna emphasize that we are, I think,

00:30:09gonna make our recruiting goal this year.

00:30:12We have not built into our current TAA plans

00:30:18an intention to build a new armored brigade combat team.

00:30:21Instead, we are looking at things like

00:30:23the counter-UAS battery that would eventually

00:30:25come to Fort Riley, to the Maneuver Shorad battalions,

00:30:29and the multi-domain task forces.

00:30:32So at this time, we are not looking at building

00:30:35a new armored brigade combat team,

00:30:37and I think we wanna focus on the integrated

00:30:40air and missile defense formations

00:30:42that are gonna be so important for large-scale conflict

00:30:46against an advanced competitor.

00:30:48You have established your priorities,

00:30:50and you believe in those priorities.

00:30:51Is that what you're telling me?

00:30:52I do, and I mean, we review our force structure every year,

00:30:56so we certainly wanna adjust to conditions

00:30:59and adjust as the strategy may require us.

00:31:02But right now, I think we believe that

00:31:06what we've built in, in terms of new formations,

00:31:09are what's right for the Army right now.

00:31:11Thank you very much.

00:31:12Can I make a comment, just on the one topic

00:31:14that didn't come up, I know we're a little over,

00:31:16but on the, we appreciate the interest,

00:31:20for example, on drones, and you mentioned drone branch.

00:31:26For us, this is a capability that's gonna be,

00:31:30I think, resident in every formation at every echelon.

00:31:34So we see this as integrated into our formation,

00:31:38not some separate piece,

00:31:40and I think we need that kind of flexibility.

00:31:43We're actually doing that right now with our formations.

00:31:47We have, we've selected three units to kind of work this out

00:31:52and start to transform in contact in doing this,

00:31:55but I don't think it would be helpful

00:31:56to have a separate drone branch.

00:31:59Understood, thank you.

00:32:02Senator Baldwin.

00:32:04Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

00:32:07Secretary Wormuth, as you know,

00:32:10the Tactical Wheeled Vehicle Industrial Base

00:32:13is an important part of the Wisconsin economy,

00:32:16as well as a vital contributor

00:32:18to the Army's warfighting requirements.

00:32:21I remain troubled by the Army's lack of careful management

00:32:25of the industrial base as I see it.

00:32:28The Army has now awarded

00:32:30the Joint Light Tactical Vehicle contract

00:32:33to an organization with no experience making JLTVs.

00:32:37That company must now stand up a brand new production line,

00:32:41risking a gap in fielding this critical platform.

00:32:45So, Secretary Wormuth, what is the status

00:32:47of this new JLTV line and supply chain,

00:32:52and will the new vendor meet the required schedule

00:32:56for production and fielding?

00:32:58Has the Army identified any technical schedule

00:33:01or financial risks, and under what circumstances

00:33:04will the Army negotiate a bridge contract

00:33:07with the incumbent manufacturer, Oshkosh Defense,

00:33:11to avoid any gaps in production?

00:33:13And I can repeat those, because I gave you quite a few.

00:33:17Thank you, Senator Baldwin.

00:33:19At this time, we are not anticipating any problems

00:33:23in the shift from Oshkosh to AM General.

00:33:28As you rightly pointed out,

00:33:30AM General has not made JLTV previously,

00:33:34but one of the things that I think will provide a bridge,

00:33:37if you will, and allow AM General to be fully prepared

00:33:41is the fact that we are gonna keep the production line

00:33:43open with Oshkosh using replenishment funds.

00:33:47So that, I think, will allow us to make a smooth transition.

00:33:51We are also, in addition to heavy tactical vehicles,

00:33:55medium tactical vehicles are very important to us,

00:33:58and so we have extended the period of performance

00:34:02for the contract with Oshkosh on those vehicles.

00:34:06But can you update us on the status

00:34:08of the new line and the supply chain,

00:34:11and whether you believe the new vendor

00:34:14will meet the required schedule for production and fielding?

00:34:18Senator, I'm confident the new vendor

00:34:19will meet the schedule, but I am happy to have Mr. Bush,

00:34:23our Assistant Secretary for Acquisition,

00:34:24and his team come and brief you in detail

00:34:27on what we're seeing right now with that company.

00:34:30Okay.

00:34:31The Army routinely submits a budget

00:34:33with a request for tactical wheeled vehicles

00:34:36at numbers substantially below

00:34:39industry's minimum sustaining rate,

00:34:42expecting this committee to make up the difference.

00:34:46For many years, I have pressed the Army

00:34:48to adequately fund these platforms,

00:34:50and we are here today looking

00:34:51at another inadequate budget request.

00:34:55Ahead of this year's budget,

00:34:57I sent you a letter asking that the fiscal year 2025 budget

00:35:01reflect more realistic procurement numbers,

00:35:04and again this year, the budget request is insufficient.

00:35:08Last week, I asked Secretary Austin

00:35:10to engage the Office of the Assistant Secretary of Defense

00:35:15for Industrial-Based Policy

00:35:17in analyzing the Army's management of these programs.

00:35:21Secretary Wormuth, will you work

00:35:23with the Assistant Secretary

00:35:25on a plan for future Army budget requests

00:35:28that better sustain the industrial base,

00:35:31and can I expect to receive

00:35:33the forthcoming tactical vehicle strategy

00:35:37that is due this coming summer?

00:35:40We would be happy to work with the Assistant Secretary

00:35:43for Industrial Programs

00:35:44to get you that information, Senator.

00:35:47We work closely with that part

00:35:49of the Office of Secretary of Defense on a regular basis,

00:35:51and we'll work with them to get you the report.

00:35:54I would say one of the challenges

00:35:56that General George and I have with the flat Army budget

00:35:59is trying to balance, if you will,

00:36:02investment in enduring systems like our vehicles

00:36:06and pursuing the ambitious modernization program

00:36:10that we have.

00:36:11It's always a challenge to determine

00:36:13how to allocate that incremental dollar,

00:36:15and I think to continue to support

00:36:18our modernization program,

00:36:20you see us stretching out, if you will,

00:36:23some of the investments in the ground vehicles.

00:36:27Thank you, Mr. Chair.

00:36:29Senator Bozeman.

00:36:32Thank you, Mr. Chair and Vice Chair,

00:36:35and thank you all for being here.

00:36:36We appreciate your leadership,

00:36:39and I know unwavering commitment,

00:36:41not only to our soldiers,

00:36:43but also, as importantly, their families.

00:36:46I understand the Coyote unmanned aircraft system

00:36:51was developed as a joint urgent operational need,

00:36:54which allowed for rapid acquisition.

00:36:58This resulted in some steps

00:36:59of the standard process being abbreviated.

00:37:02For example, the total Army munitions requirement

00:37:06for the Coyote missile is still being determined.

00:37:09Without this, it is hard for the Army industry

00:37:12to forecast accordingly and know what to expect

00:37:16in future budget and contracts.

00:37:18Secretary Wormuth, what is the Army doing

00:37:21to finalize this documentation

00:37:23so that the Army and industry can use it

00:37:25as the basis for Coyote's long-term planning and investment?

00:37:31Thank you, Senator.

00:37:32We have been relooking our total minimum requirements

00:37:36for munitions and for things like the Coyote interceptor,

00:37:41and I think there's a general recognition

00:37:43that given what we're seeing in Ukraine,

00:37:46that we need to increase our stockpiles of munitions

00:37:49and counter-UAS capabilities.

00:37:52So we are working on that right now.

00:37:55I think General George and I both believe

00:37:56that we need to invest more in counter-UAS capabilities,

00:38:01which is why you see some of that

00:38:02on his unfunded priority list.

00:38:06But given that the Chief sets requirements,

00:38:09why don't I let him speak to that in particular?

00:38:11Thank you.

00:38:12Yeah, the Coyote is a perfect example

00:38:15of where we need to head.

00:38:17It's been, you know, we've sent users,

00:38:21developers, testers forward.

00:38:24We've made it, as the battlefield has changed,

00:38:26we've made, you know, adjustments.

00:38:29One of our, we were gonna,

00:38:30we were looking to actually acquire more Coyotes.

00:38:33Some of the problem was we couldn't increase production

00:38:36because of the continuing resolution,

00:38:38and some of those changes.

00:38:39This is one area, Senator, where I think flexible funding,

00:38:44and I know sometimes that can be a bad word,

00:38:47but within counter-UAS, UAS, and EW portfolios

00:38:52would really help us.

00:38:53The battlefield is changing very, very rapidly,

00:38:57and I'm talking days and weeks.

00:38:59Sometimes you're lucky to get, you know,

00:39:00things changing in a month.

00:39:02But as it changes, we need to be able to, you know,

00:39:05go back to, you know, we have the best industry in the world

00:39:09to go back and say, hey, we need to change this.

00:39:11We need to up the quantity.

00:39:12Coyote was one of those examples.

00:39:15And that would also help us, you know,

00:39:17if there is continuing resolutions,

00:39:20if we had that built in,

00:39:21that we could make those adjustments.

00:39:23And that's what we were faced with last fall,

00:39:25and it was tough to make those adjustments in stride.

00:39:29Very good.

00:39:31The defense industrial base in Camden, Arkansas

00:39:34remains at the forefront of critical munitions production

00:39:37for our national defense.

00:39:39We anticipate multi-year procurement authority

00:39:41will improve production rates in the long term

00:39:44and send a much-needed demand signal to our industry partners.

00:39:49Your joint statement also highlights the need

00:39:51for further investments in order to ensure

00:39:53that the nation can scale the production

00:39:55of critical munitions and systems

00:39:58to meet current and future operations.

00:40:01Secretary Wormuth, General George,

00:40:04can you speak to what these investments should entail?

00:40:07And again, does the budget that's being proposed,

00:40:11does it meet the Army's demand for munitions?

00:40:15Thank you, Senator.

00:40:16This budget has over $3 billion in it for munitions,

00:40:21because again, I think there's a recognition

00:40:23that we have to build up our stockpiles.

00:40:25So that includes money for Gimlers, PAC-3,

00:40:30which we've got the multi-year authority for,

00:40:33Javelins, 155 millimeter, you name it.

00:40:36And in addition to the $3 billion

00:40:38for the munitions themselves,

00:40:40the budget also includes a billion dollars

00:40:42for investing in the Army's own organic industrial base,

00:40:45so that the various depots, arsenals, and ammo plants

00:40:49can be more capable of producing faster

00:40:54and in larger capacity.

00:40:55So I think we're really trying to get after it

00:40:57in this budget in that area.

00:41:01Thank you, Madam Chair.

00:41:05Thank you, Senator Murphy.

00:41:08Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

00:41:10Thank you both for being here and for your service.

00:41:12It sounds like Senator Moran

00:41:14predicted my opening line of questioning here.

00:41:18Listen, I think we've made a really bad bet

00:41:21on doubling down on tilt-rotor technology

00:41:25that has proved to be deadly

00:41:27and has proved to be wildly expensive.

00:41:31From March 2022 to November 2023,

00:41:34we had 20 service members die

00:41:37in four separate fatal Osprey crashes.

00:41:41This was after the Department of Defense

00:41:44said in February of 2023 that they had fixed the problem,

00:41:49the hard clutch engagement problem

00:41:51that was thought to be behind earlier crashes.

00:41:55They were 99% certain

00:41:57that the problem had been fixed.

00:41:58And then there were four crashes

00:41:59where 20 more service members died.

00:42:02This is in addition to the program being wildly expensive.

00:42:07Costs per flying hour have spiked by 22%,

00:42:12just between 2019 and 2020.

00:42:16And so the decision to double down

00:42:20on the tilt-rotor program with a tilt-rotor selection

00:42:23as part of the future vertical lift program

00:42:27sounds disastrous and wildly costly for this committee.

00:42:31Reports are that the tilt-rotor bid

00:42:35was twice that of the competing bid.

00:42:40And then you have all of this evidence

00:42:41that you haven't fixed the safety problems.

00:42:44So Secretary Wormuth, can you explain,

00:42:47A, how the Army can justify moving forward

00:42:50with a new tilt-rotor aircraft

00:42:51when we can't even figure out how to address

00:42:53the safety issues with the existing Osprey,

00:42:56and how we are going to account for a tilt-rotor program

00:43:02that is known for its tendency for cost escalation?

00:43:05How can you guarantee that this isn't gonna become

00:43:08just a giant cost suck on this committee

00:43:13as the costs escalate in the new tilt-rotor program

00:43:16as they have in the Osprey program?

00:43:20Thank you, Senator.

00:43:21A couple of things on that.

00:43:24So on safety, certainly we're concerned always

00:43:28any time we see a helicopter crash or an airplane crash,

00:43:31whether it's the Osprey,

00:43:33or we've had some crashes of our Apaches.

00:43:37But one of the things I think

00:43:38that the FLARA program will benefit from

00:43:41is over 20 years of safety experience with the Osprey

00:43:46and lessons from the Osprey.

00:43:48So we will be factoring all of that

00:43:50and learning from all of that.

00:43:52And again, no helicopter is perfect.

00:43:56They are inherently, there can be challenges.

00:44:00But I think we will benefit greatly

00:44:03from the long track record and be able to learn lessons

00:44:06in terms of safety from Osprey.

00:44:09More broadly to your point about costs,

00:44:12again, we looked at not just costs

00:44:15when we considered the bids that came in,

00:44:18but also performance.

00:44:20And so I think we have to weigh that.

00:44:23And as you know, ultimately the GAO found

00:44:26that our decision to go with Beltextron was sound.

00:44:30So we will continue to look very closely at cost

00:44:33and we'll monitor cost growth,

00:44:35but we also need to be looking at performance.

00:44:37And we felt that the Beltextron proposal

00:44:42would give us the performance that we need.

00:44:45A couple of years ago,

00:44:47the Army's number one modernization priority

00:44:49was the Future Attack Reconnaissance Aircraft Program.

00:44:54The Army reversed itself, canceled that program,

00:44:58which is gonna put us in a position

00:45:00to have to rely on the Black Hawk in the short term

00:45:04to do a lot more work.

00:45:06And yet this budget request includes only $25 million

00:45:11in Army research and development funding

00:45:13for Black Hawk modernization,

00:45:15which just doesn't sound right given the fact

00:45:18that now that you aren't building

00:45:20a new Future Attack Reconnaissance Aircraft,

00:45:23you are gonna need to very quickly scale up

00:45:26and modernize the Black Hawk.

00:45:27So how do we make sure that we invest

00:45:31in the Black Hawk program in part as a means

00:45:36to balance out what we've lost

00:45:37with the cancellation of the FAR program?

00:45:42Thank you, Senator.

00:45:43One thing the Army is doing

00:45:47as part of our rebalance of the aviation portfolio

00:45:51is to pursue the reconnaissance requirements

00:45:54in a different way,

00:45:55really relying on much more of space-based sensing,

00:45:59the combination of space-based sensing,

00:46:01existing platforms,

00:46:03and things like future tactical unmanned aerial systems

00:46:07and what we were previously calling air-launched effects,

00:46:11but really we're now just calling launched effects.

00:46:13So inherent in our decisions in the rebalancing

00:46:17is the fact that we believe we can meet that requirement

00:46:20in a different way.

00:46:21As you point out,

00:46:23we do need to continue to invest in Black Hawk.

00:46:26And I think there are things that we could do

00:46:29if Congress decided, for example,

00:46:30to give us more money for research and development

00:46:33in 25 for Black Hawk,

00:46:35we could work on the fly-by-wire capabilities,

00:46:39we could work on doing more with the improved turbine engine

00:46:45which is gonna be critical,

00:46:46not just for Black Hawk, but also for Apache.

00:46:49So there are projects I think we could pursue,

00:46:53but I would leave it there.

00:46:55Thank you, Madam Chair.

00:46:57Senator Murkowski.

00:46:58Thank you, Madam Chairman.

00:47:00And welcome, good to see you, Madam Secretary General.

00:47:04Thank you for being here and your leadership.

00:47:08We talk a lot about the various aircraft, the equipment,

00:47:13but I think we know that as good as that may be

00:47:17if we fail to invest adequately in our soldiers,

00:47:20that's where we fail,

00:47:21that's where we have the vulnerabilities.

00:47:23So we've had these conversations before

00:47:25about how we really take a whole of a person approach

00:47:29in addressing the physical, the mental, the emotional,

00:47:33even the spiritual needs of our soldiers.

00:47:37We've had the discussion about conditions in Alaska

00:47:40and some of the challenges that present themselves

00:47:43that often contribute to mental health struggles.

00:47:47One of the things that we have found that is amazing

00:47:50in its effort or its ability to uplift morale

00:47:54is this program that we authorized in the FY23 NDAA,

00:48:00and this is the Fly Back Home.

00:48:02When particularly a junior service member

00:48:06who is maybe in Alaska and calls New York or Maine home,

00:48:12the cost of an airplane ticket is prohibitively expensive.

00:48:15And so when we put this in place,

00:48:18what we saw was not only good, strong usage of it,

00:48:23but excitement about what it did.

00:48:26It basically gave people something to look forward to

00:48:29and in terms of a mental health boost,

00:48:33it was really quite considerable.

00:48:36So General George, I would ask if you would speak

00:48:39to the value of such a program for our soldiers

00:48:43and Secretary, if you can then comment

00:48:46as to whether the Army intends

00:48:48to restart the Fly Back program.

00:48:52General.

00:48:53Thanks, Senator.

00:48:53And I agree with you, your comment up front

00:48:56that our edge is our soldiers

00:48:58and making sure that we're investing in them.

00:49:01We're really proud.

00:49:02I think a lot of things that we have done

00:49:05and we have seen General Eifler

00:49:07in the 11th Airborne Division up there

00:49:09has informed things across the Army.

00:49:12So they're doing great and first and foremost

00:49:15is they're doing great training up there

00:49:18and we're continuing to invest in that

00:49:20because I think that that's critically important

00:49:23and I know you've had an opportunity to see that.

00:49:27What we like to say is that every location is unique

00:49:30and we need to be able to do unique things

00:49:32like the Fly Back Home program.

00:49:34That's very unique given where they're at

00:49:38and is helpful for us.

00:49:39And I think that we have to look at every installation

00:49:42like that a little bit different.

00:49:43I will tell you that Alaska is near the top.

00:49:47We offer stations of choice.

00:49:51There's a lot of people that wanna go up

00:49:54and serve in Alaska.

00:49:54That has helped with us for our recruiting

00:49:58and I think it's one, it's they wanna come up to Alaska

00:50:01and experience that but it's also because

00:50:04they do a really good job of taking care

00:50:07of their soldiers and their families

00:50:09and I think it starts there.

00:50:10We're trying, we're making some headway

00:50:12but again, it's these little things.

00:50:14Secretary, can you comment on whether or not

00:50:16there's any intention to restart the program?

00:50:18Certainly, Senator Murkowski.

00:50:19I think what I'd like to do is,

00:50:21as you know, we have the Fly Home program.

00:50:25We also have the Remote Conditions

00:50:26and Austere Incentive Pay for Wainwright and JBEAR

00:50:31and have spent I think over $25 million on that

00:50:33and then our vice chief right now

00:50:36is really stepping back and reviewing our MTO

00:50:39for the entire 11th Airborne Division

00:50:42to see if we're investing it the way that we need.

00:50:45What I'd like to do is commit to you to look at whether,

00:50:49to look at the cost benefits

00:50:51of restarting the Fly Home program.

00:50:53We are under a flat top line so every dollar,

00:50:56we're constantly in a Peter and Paul situation

00:50:59but I know it was a popular program

00:51:01and I would commit to you that we will look at that

00:51:03but I'd like to look at it in the context

00:51:06of some of the other programs that we're doing.

00:51:09Well and since you raised the MTO,

00:51:11it really does speak to the gaps

00:51:15that we're seeing there with the 11th

00:51:18including the lack of the MTO,

00:51:21the equipment to define what equipment

00:51:24is appropriate for the Arctic,

00:51:25the lack of the division artillery,

00:51:27the lack of a sustainment brigade,

00:51:29the lack of an aviation headquarters.

00:51:31So I'm glad to know that you are reviewing that.

00:51:35I'm hopeful that we're gonna see some progress on this soon

00:51:39that this is not something that we're gonna be studying

00:51:44for a long while.

00:51:45I think we recognize what has been put in place

00:51:50with the 11th, the focus on the Arctic strategy

00:51:56and the need to emphasize the dominance there

00:52:00but we have to have it all lined up.

00:52:02We just can't have it in name only or in title only.

00:52:05I think you both recognize that.

00:52:07So I don't know if you can inform me

00:52:10as to timing on what we might expect

00:52:12for progress on this.

00:52:14General, do you know?

00:52:15We're getting together and having these discussions.

00:52:17I just would tell you, Senator,

00:52:19the things that I think we need to grow first and foremost

00:52:22with structure is counter-UAS capabilities,

00:52:26counter-UAS batteries.

00:52:28I think we need to grow additional integrated air

00:52:31and missile defense and we need to grow

00:52:34some long-range fire.

00:52:36So we're obviously looking at it,

00:52:37this total army analysis is something

00:52:39that we need to do.

00:52:40We did up gun aviation oversight up there

00:52:45and added some slots to do that

00:52:49to make sure that we're kind of have

00:52:51the right oversight up there with that.

00:52:53But I'm just putting it in context

00:52:55that if we're gonna grow capabilities,

00:52:58it would be my recommendation that we would grow

00:53:00some of these other things first.

00:53:02I'm not saying that those aren't all,

00:53:04you know, that aren't important

00:53:06but we would need to grow those other capabilities first.

00:53:09We'll look forward to working with you

00:53:10and getting the updates on this.

00:53:11Thank you, Madam Chairman.

00:53:12Thank you very much.

00:53:14Thank you to both of you for being here today.

00:53:16It's great to be here today to talk about

00:53:19what resources the Army needs in the coming year

00:53:22and to make sure we're supporting the men and women

00:53:24in uniform who keep all of us safe.

00:53:27I wanna be sure that we deliver the investments

00:53:29your service needs and it's critical

00:53:31we also provide adequate funding for agencies

00:53:34across government because as we talked about

00:53:37with Secretary Austin, the Department of Defense

00:53:39does not operate in a vacuum.

00:53:41If we fail to properly fund state and other departments,

00:53:45then our nation is less secure

00:53:47and we'll end up having to spend more money on the Pentagon.

00:53:51Not to mention we leave families more vulnerable

00:53:54to threats like wildfires and pandemics

00:53:56and fentanyl and other crises.

00:53:59So with that in mind, I'm glad to have you here today

00:54:01and I just wanna discuss a few things

00:54:03and one of them is childcare.

00:54:05One of the main challenges I hear

00:54:07from Joint Base Lewis-McChord

00:54:09in my home state of Washington

00:54:11is that maintaining adequate staff

00:54:13for its child development centers is a problem.

00:54:17If you don't have staff, they can't provide childcare

00:54:20and without safe, quality childcare,

00:54:22it's really difficult for our service members

00:54:24to accomplish their mission requirements.

00:54:27Women service members in particular

00:54:29report that lack of childcare jeopardizes

00:54:32their career opportunities.

00:54:34In FY24, Senator Tester and I secured 167 million

00:54:40to fully fund the Department of Defense's

00:54:42childcare initiatives and I'm glad you were able

00:54:45to reopen a CDC at JBLM in January.

00:54:48However, staffing constraints are still preventing it

00:54:51from operating at full capacity.

00:54:53Secretary Wormuth, have the benefits DOD offers

00:54:57for childcare workers shown to be an effective tool

00:55:00for recruitment and retention?

00:55:03I think the incentives are helping us, absolutely,

00:55:07Chair Murray.

00:55:08You know, we offer a recruiting bonus

00:55:11and we also have retention incentives.

00:55:14We have been offering a 50% discount

00:55:17on a worker's first child, you know,

00:55:19attending the CDC as well.

00:55:21We've also had a pilot opening up commissary benefits

00:55:25to our CDC workers.

00:55:27Those are helping us but-

00:55:28Is there something else we should be doing?

00:55:31I think one of the things that is a big challenge for us

00:55:33is the time it takes to hire civilian workers.

00:55:36So figuring out, frankly, to be blunt,

00:55:39how we can make USA jobs more effective

00:55:43to shorten the time it takes to hire civilian workers,

00:55:46that would be-

00:55:47How long does it take?

00:55:48It takes, in some cases, more than 180 days.

00:55:51So they take something else.

00:55:52So they take another job, that's right.

00:55:54And at places like JBLM, we're at about 70% staffing

00:55:57and that's something that's controlled by OPM.

00:56:00It's outside of the Army.

00:56:02But I, and we are doing, we are looking ourselves

00:56:05at what we can do inside the Army

00:56:07to speed up civilian hiring.

00:56:08But ultimately, USA jobs is a big piece of it.

00:56:13Thank you.

00:56:13General, did you want to add?

00:56:14Just gonna, because I just was up at JBLM,

00:56:17Senator Murray had obviously been stationed there.

00:56:20So I think every location is a little bit different.

00:56:24JBLM is one of the areas that we're short,

00:56:27probably more than other locations.

00:56:29And a lot of areas that are, you know,

00:56:30we're well above 90% in the hiring.

00:56:33So we're dealing with this in different areas.

00:56:36And I know that I've read something recently,

00:56:38there's more than 40,000 shortage nationwide,

00:56:41you know, for childcare.

00:56:42So I think we're competing.

00:56:44One of the things that we're looking at,

00:56:45again, every location is unique and different,

00:56:49is how do we also, in addition to what the Secretary

00:56:52mentioned as far as commissary, we've done,

00:56:54that's worked as a privilege up there,

00:56:56giving them money off if they have kids in,

00:56:59we're actually offering them access,

00:57:01because sometimes it spouses to housing a little quicker.

00:57:04Housing is a very, another challenge that's up there.

00:57:08And then I think we also have to look at the pay

00:57:11that we're doing.

00:57:12And I don't think we need any help with that.

00:57:14But, you know, do we, is it a, what grade is it

00:57:17that we could maybe go up a little bit?

00:57:19But I did want to foot stomp on the USA jobs

00:57:22and the challenge just with that kind of hiring.

00:57:26It's an old system, and I think that that could be updated.

00:57:29Okay, well, you mentioned housing,

00:57:31and that's the other thing I hear about all the time.

00:57:33We're still seeing issues with mold, with rodents,

00:57:36with the availability of suitable and affordable housing,

00:57:39especially at JBLM.

00:57:40I've heard as many as 650 service members and their families

00:57:44are spending anywhere from three to 12 months in a hotel

00:57:48or other accommodation while they wait for a home on base

00:57:51or become available.

00:57:52These service members and their families

00:57:54need to have a safe, reliable,

00:57:56affordable place to live, period.

00:57:58So talk to me, Secretary Wormuth,

00:58:00about what you're doing to ensure housing needs are met

00:58:03at both on and off base.

00:58:06Thank you.

00:58:07We're doing a few things.

00:58:08In this year's budget, for example,

00:58:10we have investment for 138 new homes,

00:58:14250 renovations of homes, and $400 million

00:58:18for sustainment of existing Army-owned family housing

00:58:23in addition to all of the money, the $2.1 billion

00:58:26that we're putting into barracks

00:58:27for unaccompanied soldiers.

00:58:29We also continue to work extremely closely

00:58:32with our five privatized housing partners

00:58:35to make sure that they are providing quality housing,

00:58:39to make sure that they have enough maintenance workers,

00:58:42to make sure that they are taking care

00:58:45of the privatized homes.

00:58:46So we absolutely still have challenges, Chair,

00:58:50but I think we are trying very hard

00:58:52to reduce the problems with mold

00:58:55and long waits for maintenance.

00:58:57Chairman, anything you wanted to add?

00:58:58I just would add, Senator, up there,

00:59:01one of the things that we do that's unique to JBLM

00:59:05is we have an office there

00:59:07that does rental agreements to help.

00:59:11Because again, it's a specific problem up there,

00:59:14and you know what, the housing market

00:59:16over the last several years has gone up there

00:59:19where soldiers don't have to pay,

00:59:22to get several credit checks, it's one thing.

00:59:25They don't have to put in big deposits.

00:59:27So we're doing other things as well,

00:59:29and we're doing that. With the community?

00:59:30We're doing that with the community,

00:59:32which again, I think that that's what we're gonna have to do

00:59:34is tailor some of those solutions locally.

00:59:38Because the truth is that about 30% of our force

00:59:43lives on base in family housing.

00:59:47So we're gonna have to work with the local communities

00:59:49really across the country to solve this.

00:59:53Thank you. Senator Capito.

00:59:56Thank you, and thank you both,

00:59:58not just for your service, but for being here with us today.

01:00:00It's good to see both of you again.

01:00:03My questions are, first of all,

01:00:05I wanted to ask about cyber.

01:00:10Obviously, we're facing more cyber threats at every level,

01:00:13and in every aspect of our critical infrastructure.

01:00:17And from what I understand, the Guard is already playing

01:00:19a critical role in domestic response to cyber attacks,

01:00:23including through our critical infrastructure battalion

01:00:26at the Army Interagency Training and Education Center

01:00:29in my state of West Virginia.

01:00:31This unit supports a number of DOD and DHS programs.

01:00:35Is there a more direct role for the National Guard

01:00:37to play in cyber, specifically using them

01:00:40as a liaison force between the federal government,

01:00:43the states, and the local and state critical infrastructure?

01:00:47Do you all have, what would your response to that be?

01:00:51Yeah.

01:00:52Senator, I think what I would say is,

01:00:54we try to leverage all of the cyber expertise

01:00:57across all three of our components,

01:00:59active, guard, and reserve.

01:01:01And certainly, there's a lot of great cyber expertise

01:01:03in the Guard.

01:01:05I think trying to have a one-size-fits-all program

01:01:09with the Guard is challenging, because frankly,

01:01:12the level of expertise varies from state to state,

01:01:15and also, frankly, 85% of our critical infrastructure

01:01:19is in the private sector, and so there's

01:01:21a tremendous amount of diversity.

01:01:24But I can tell you that I know General Barrett,

01:01:26who's the Army Cyber Commander, works very closely

01:01:30with the Guard to try to make sure

01:01:33that we're making the best use of them,

01:01:34and that we're also retaining, frankly,

01:01:37that capability, which is very in demand right now.

01:01:40General George, do you have a response?

01:01:42Yeah, I just would, and having deployed

01:01:45with some of these experts in the Guard,

01:01:48I think what makes them very unique

01:01:50when they come into your formations

01:01:51is a lot of them work this in their daily jobs,

01:01:54and really keep up a skill level,

01:01:57which is really helpful for us.

01:01:59So we are constantly looking.

01:02:00We're in discussions right now with the Guard

01:02:03on what adjustments we need to make.

01:02:05I do think that as part of our continuous transformation,

01:02:09looking at how we, our cyber formations,

01:02:14again, I think that's one of the things

01:02:15that's made the world much smaller,

01:02:17was space and cyber.

01:02:19So we're constantly evaluating

01:02:20how we can get better in that space.

01:02:22Good, good.

01:02:23Well, on Friday, we had a great announcement

01:02:26in Huntington, West Virginia, at Marshall University,

01:02:29in a Marshall University, West Virginia University

01:02:32collaboration, they're friends now,

01:02:34unless they're on the football field,

01:02:36is what the bottom line was there.

01:02:37But it was the DOD National Center for Excellence

01:02:41for Cybersecurity and Critical Infrastructure.

01:02:43They're trying to develop the workforce,

01:02:45but it's a really great collaborative effort

01:02:47between private sector, academia,

01:02:52the DOD, and the Guard, and U.S. Cyber Comm.

01:02:56So I think we're moving in a great direction

01:02:59in West Virginia, very excited about the potential

01:03:02for that project in our home state.

01:03:05My other question, my next question,

01:03:08is on Army soldier-led innovation programs.

01:03:10Providing, obviously, weapons to Ukraine

01:03:14illuminated some of our shortfalls,

01:03:15and some of where we're doing really well.

01:03:18And I've been a big supporter of soldier-led innovation

01:03:21through the Army DEVCOMS Pathfinder Program,

01:03:24and the Accelerating Force Program.

01:03:27These programs help to transition our weapons,

01:03:31and our tech, by actually putting it in the hands

01:03:33of our military before it's actually,

01:03:38as an experimentation type of thing.

01:03:40So you can get on-the-ground reactions

01:03:44from folks that are gonna be using these weapons,

01:03:47what lessons can be learned.

01:03:50What is the Army's plan to increase funding

01:03:52for these types of soldier-driven innovation programs?

01:03:55And can we get new technology solutions

01:03:58into soldiers' hands for experimentation?

01:04:00Because I think it will bring great successes to us.

01:04:06So General, I don't know if you want to start with that.

01:04:08Sure, I'm wishing there was more time on the clock

01:04:11to talk about this one.

01:04:12So we are, we're doing what we're calling

01:04:15transformation in contact,

01:04:17and I would love to have our team come up here,

01:04:20and kind of lay that out, what we're doing.

01:04:22That would be great.

01:04:23What we're doing is exactly what you,

01:04:26if you infuse a formation with technology,

01:04:29and then see how they actually use it.

01:04:32And we have the developers that are down there

01:04:34that make software adjustments.

01:04:36We have the drones that are there,

01:04:38and we make adjustments to them.

01:04:40That's what we're doing.

01:04:41So we have a brigade that's gonna go over to Europe.

01:04:43We have a brigade now in the 101st.

01:04:46We have a brigade that's out in the Pacific.

01:04:47And they're getting, we're fixing their network.

01:04:50We're adding electronic warfare, UAS, counter-UAS,

01:04:55all of those capabilities.

01:04:57And what this means is we're not gonna buy stuff

01:04:59that say, hey, this is gonna be here with us for 20 years.

01:05:01We're gonna innovate exactly what you're talking about.

01:05:04I just was down at Stuart,

01:05:07and I know we have partnerships

01:05:09with universities in West Virginia.

01:05:11And they are innovating.

01:05:13Yeah, Clay County.

01:05:14They're making their own, as an example,

01:05:17they turned what had been a vehicle that was manned,

01:05:23they basically turned it into a breaching vehicle

01:05:25that was completely automated.

01:05:27So I mean, these are soldiers that are doing these things.

01:05:31They're able to come up with how we can 3D print parts

01:05:34that cost $20 and took us six months

01:05:38to get to actually 3D printing 16 of them within a minute,

01:05:45and they cost 12 cents each.

01:05:46So these are soldiers that are doing these things.

01:05:49I think that technology has changed that much.

01:05:51We're gonna have to adjust with the times.

01:05:54Well, thank you.

01:05:55It also seems to me, and my time is up,

01:05:57but not only is it a cost saving on the production,

01:06:00but you're not wasting money on things

01:06:01that may not, in theater,

01:06:03actually perform exactly as intended or as thought could be.

01:06:07Thank you all both for being here.

01:06:09It's good to see you.

01:06:09Thank you.

01:06:10Thank you.

01:06:11Senator Coons.

01:06:12Thank you, Chair Murray.

01:06:13And thank you for the opportunity to be with you both today

01:06:16for your service and for your leadership.

01:06:18Secretary Wormuth and General George,

01:06:21I look forward to following up with you,

01:06:23if I can briefly, on three things.

01:06:24One that I may have missed the full conversation on,

01:06:27because I have three committee hearings at the same time.

01:06:30Really grave concerns about force protection

01:06:32and countering the drone threat.

01:06:34Second, the state partnership program,

01:06:36which I think has shown real benefits in Ukraine

01:06:39and in a dozen other countries I've been to,

01:06:41in Africa and Southeast Asia and in Central America.

01:06:45But first, the Global Fragility Act.

01:06:47Five years ago, President Trump signed into law a bill

01:06:52that Senator Graham and I worked on for years

01:06:54to try and come up with a common approach.

01:06:57This is modeled on Plan Colombia

01:07:00and how we took a combination of DOD, State Department,

01:07:03AID over a decade to come up with a common approach

01:07:07to dealing with a fragile state

01:07:09that was not yet a failed state.

01:07:11Colombia, 25, 30 years ago, was a disaster, was a mess,

01:07:15but it was still savable, salvageable.

01:07:17And so a joint strategy effort

01:07:19between DOD, state, and AID successfully moved it back

01:07:24into the column of countries we can work with.

01:07:27We really have struggled

01:07:29to get DOD engagement and implementation.

01:07:32And there was, several years ago,

01:07:34a decision made by the lead agency, state,

01:07:37to prioritize a few countries,

01:07:39Papua New Guinea, Mozambique, coastal West Africa.

01:07:42I just met with the four-star responsible for AFRICOM,

01:07:46pressed on the, frankly, deteriorating security situation

01:07:51in the Sahel and coastal West Africa,

01:07:53and would urge you to engage

01:07:55in providing even modest resources to coastal West Africa,

01:08:00recognizing that withdrawal or removal

01:08:03of equipment and forces from Niger

01:08:05is a sensitive and difficult subject

01:08:07to discuss in full here.

01:08:09I would welcome your active engagement.

01:08:12I recognize this often falls to the bottom of the list,

01:08:15but as we saw in Southwest Asia,

01:08:17there are countries that are sort of off our list

01:08:19of priority countries until suddenly they are,

01:08:22at great expense and at great loss of life.

01:08:24So I'd be interested in any brief response,

01:08:26Madam Secretary, or a chance for a follow-up conversation.

01:08:29Certainly, Senator, happy to do a follow-up as well.

01:08:31Briefly, I would say I think where the Army

01:08:34can be most helpful in that regard

01:08:36is through our Security Force Assistance Brigade,

01:08:39which we have one aligned to each combatant command.

01:08:42So General Langley works

01:08:44with our Security Force Assistance Brigade

01:08:46to try to build interoperability,

01:08:48build up the security forces in those countries.

01:08:51That's, I think, where we could make the best contribution.

01:08:53I'm intimately familiar.

01:08:55President Ruto of Kenya is here this week for a state visit.

01:08:58He's been a tremendous security partner,

01:09:00Kenya generally, in the counter-al-Shabaab work

01:09:03that's very difficult and dangerous in Somalia.

01:09:07But we do not have a comparable platform or plan

01:09:09for coastal West Africa post-Sahel,

01:09:12and I'm very eager to work on that.

01:09:14I'm also concerned about force protection

01:09:16for our forces who are in FOBs

01:09:18in eastern Syria or in Somalia,

01:09:21and just hope that you recognize the urgency of this.

01:09:25I was interested in hearing Senator Capito's questions

01:09:27about soldier-led innovation.

01:09:30We don't have three years or two years to deploy.

01:09:33I saw the Coyote system in a recent visit to Iraq

01:09:36and to Jordan.

01:09:37I've seen some of the other options.

01:09:39I just don't think we're moving fast enough.

01:09:41What's your sense of what we might be able to do

01:09:43to support faster force protection solutions

01:09:46for very low-tech, easy-to-deliver drones?

01:09:50So I agree with you,

01:09:52and I was having this conversation with Senator Collins.

01:09:55I do think we need to move faster, and we are doing that.

01:09:58We are basically taking everything that we have available

01:10:01and putting it in the Middle East.

01:10:03And again, it's kind of the user,

01:10:07what Senator Capito was talking about,

01:10:08where you actually have soldiers that are on the systems,

01:10:10the developers, and the testers that are all right there,

01:10:14and we have our directed energy that's over.

01:10:16We just directed the high-power microwave system

01:10:19that we're doing is gonna go over there immediately,

01:10:23because I think we have to spin this a whole bunch faster.

01:10:28We did, you know, a lot has changed in that work,

01:10:31and that was why it was on the unfunded priority list

01:10:34to ask to get, because of what's changed

01:10:37in the Middle East since last October.

01:10:40And then this is another area,

01:10:42and I know I've mentioned this,

01:10:42where I think we have to be more flexible

01:10:44in our funding approach,

01:10:45so that when we have something

01:10:48that's research is working well,

01:10:51and we know we need to procure more of those systems,

01:10:53and I can give you examples of certain systems

01:10:56that we're doing better,

01:10:58that we wouldn't have to wait that we could do that.

01:11:00We could come over and notify the committee,

01:11:03and then do a certain wait period,

01:11:05and then go ahead and do that,

01:11:07and we would love to work with you on that,

01:11:09but I think we have to turn the wheel

01:11:11a lot faster on counter-EAS.

01:11:12Given the Houthis, given the proximity,

01:11:15given al-Shabaab, and given where our forces are

01:11:17and how they're deployed,

01:11:18I am as concerned about forces in Somalia

01:11:21and northeastern Kenya as I am about forces

01:11:24in Iraq and Syria, and I hope that that elevates.

01:11:28Last in a sentence, the State Partnership Program,

01:11:31we're 30 years old.

01:11:32I think we've got every one of our state national guards.

01:11:34I think Maine has Montenegro.

01:11:37I think you've got Malaysia or Thailand,

01:11:41and I think you have Gabon, if I'm not mistaken.

01:11:43We've got Trinidad and Tobago.

01:11:45I have visited SPP partnerships in a dozen countries,

01:11:48particularly in the Baltic states and in Ukraine,

01:11:51where they've made an amazing difference.

01:11:54Please continue to support it robustly,

01:11:55and I will continue to advocate for that.

01:11:57Thank you very much.

01:11:59Thank you.

01:12:00Senator Hoeven.

01:12:03Thank you, Madam Chair, Secretary General.

01:12:05Thanks for being here.

01:12:06Thanks for your service.

01:12:06Appreciate you both very much.

01:12:09Secretary, given the magnitude of the challenges we face,

01:12:13it's critical that the Army National Guard

01:12:15maintain the capabilities to integrate seamlessly

01:12:18into the fight, and I know you support that.

01:12:21We funded 12 MQ-1C Grey Eagle aircraft in fiscal 2023,

01:12:27which supports one Army Guard division.

01:12:29I'm concerned that that's not enough.

01:12:32Will you commit to ensuring parity across the force

01:12:35for the MQ-1C Grey Eagle?

01:12:40Senator Hoeven, our plan with the Grey Eagles

01:12:43is we have planned to have 12 companies

01:12:46associated with divisions.

01:12:48I think we have about half of those on contract right now,

01:12:53and our plan is to have the additional completed

01:12:56by the end of this fiscal year.

01:12:58We still have to work through what are the criteria

01:13:02for stationing those Grey Eagles with our National Guard,

01:13:06and General Hokanson and General Jensen

01:13:09will be putting together those criteria

01:13:12and making sure that they're shared

01:13:14with the Adjutants General,

01:13:16so that states have visibility into the process

01:13:19as we think through stationing.

01:13:20But that's our plan right now for Grey Eagle.

01:13:24Okay, also one of the things that go with that

01:13:27is standing up a schoolhouse in regard to training

01:13:30for the Grey Eagle as well,

01:13:33and I have talked to both members of the Army and the Guard

01:13:38in regard to doing that,

01:13:39because we think we have a very good proposal for you

01:13:42in North Dakota that would be

01:13:44a very cost-effective way to do it,

01:13:46and so we would look forward to discussing that with you

01:13:48as you stand up this mission in the Guard.

01:13:53Okay?

01:13:54Certainly look forward to discussing that.

01:13:56Thank you, Secretary, appreciate it.

01:13:59General, so we're seeing drones transform the battlefield,

01:14:08and certainly Ukraine, other places as well.

01:14:12Army recently canceled plans

01:14:13for several new aviation platforms

01:14:15and seems to be rethinking its requirements

01:14:18on the battlefield.

01:14:19What role do you envision unmanned aircraft,

01:14:21both large and small, playing for the Army in the future

01:14:24based on what we're seeing in the current conflicts?

01:14:28Senator, I was gonna tag onto your previous one.

01:14:31Well, please do, go ahead.

01:14:33Because it's related, I think,

01:14:35to what you were talking about.

01:14:36We are gonna need unmanned systems

01:14:38in all of our formations.

01:14:39We've been meeting with a large group of tags,

01:14:43and the division commanders had a lot of discussions

01:14:45with them about how all of our formations

01:14:48are gonna have to transform.

01:14:49And we're gonna need this kind of technology

01:14:51at every echelon in doing that and making those adjustments.

01:14:55So I think not just Gray Eagle,

01:14:57what we're gonna need is short-range, medium-range.

01:15:00It's gonna have to be inside of our formation.

01:15:03We did cancel, and I don't know if you're referring

01:15:06to like Shadow and Raven.

01:15:08Those were 25-year-old systems.

01:15:11They were great 15 years ago.

01:15:15But what we can't do is keep something in the formation

01:15:18that we know is not gonna be effective on the battlefield.

01:15:21And use Amazon, Home Depot, I mean, all these.

01:15:26There's a lot of great small companies out there

01:15:29that are really moving quickly with unmanned systems.

01:15:32And what we're trying to do

01:15:33is build a modular open system architecture

01:15:36where we can put different systems and sensors on them.

01:15:39And I think that we will be able to adapt

01:15:41to that rate of change if we take that model.

01:15:45Right on.

01:15:46I mean, we've gotta look at,

01:15:47and I know you always do, and I know you are.

01:15:48We've gotta look at what's going on

01:15:50in the battlefield right now.

01:15:51And the whole UAS drones, large and smaller,

01:15:55are changing the dynamics for all of the services.

01:15:59Not just Air Force or Navy,

01:16:00but for you, for the Marine Corps, everybody.

01:16:03We do a ton of work in unmanned aviation

01:16:06in Grand Forks, North Dakota.

01:16:08A lot of counter UAS.

01:16:10We have 900 miles of border responsibility.

01:16:12We have Customs and Border Protection co-located

01:16:15with the air base there.

01:16:16We have a technology park there.

01:16:17We have all the major players in this area.

01:16:20But it's not only what we do offensively with these drones,

01:16:23it's what we do to counter them, too.

01:16:25And so I would like to invite you to come

01:16:28and see what we're doing.

01:16:29But also, because we can't be shooting million-dollar

01:16:32missiles to take down a $500 drone, and swarms.

01:16:37We've got to get on top of this.

01:16:39We're working very hard on that,

01:16:41and we want to work with you to advance that.

01:16:43So I'm inviting you as well,

01:16:46to come see what we're doing,

01:16:46but to work collaboratively on this.

01:16:48Not just for the Guard, but for all the services, DOD-wide.

01:16:53I'm gonna try to get up there before it's January

01:16:55and February, since I'm from the Midwest.

01:16:58Here's the good news.

01:16:59If you come during the nice weather, you get nice weather.

01:17:01If you come during the cold weather,

01:17:03we got the best hockey you've ever seen.

01:17:05We'll take you to a hockey game.

01:17:06But again, thanks to both of you for your service.

01:17:09Vice Chair Collins, last questions.

01:17:13Thank you, Madam Chair.

01:17:15General, first let me say I was delighted

01:17:18to hear you talk about 3D printing,

01:17:21and the possibilities that it can contribute enormously

01:17:27to our national defense.

01:17:28The University of Maine has one of the largest,

01:17:32if not the largest, 3D printer,

01:17:35and has printed everything from a boat to a home.

01:17:41It's just amazing what they've been able to do.

01:17:44They're also doing a lot of work

01:17:47on ballistic protections for our troops, using composites.

01:17:53So it's very exciting, the work that's going on,

01:17:58and I'm glad to know that you see the promise as well.

01:18:03I want to talk about what I think, or ask you about,

01:18:08what I think is one of the unappreciated consequences

01:18:12of the supplemental, and that is that

01:18:16the replenishment funding helps to modernize the Army.

01:18:22I think that's been lost in this debate,

01:18:26that it gives you better capabilities.

01:18:29So, General, could you please describe

01:18:32how the replenishment funding is helping the Army

01:18:37replace its legacy weapons with more modern capabilities?

01:18:44A real quick example, Senator, is 113s.

01:18:48They're very capable vehicles, but we are now moving on,

01:18:51and every one that we have provided,

01:18:52we are now buying AmpVs.

01:18:55And so we have a better system.

01:18:59Same thing with Bradleys that we have done,

01:19:02and what we're doing to buy a more advanced model.

01:19:07And then the other thing is, for a lot of that,

01:19:10for the supplemental, 80% or more of it

01:19:12was coming back into our own industrial base

01:19:14and what we're doing right here.

01:19:17So, yeah, we're not buying any old stuff.

01:19:20We're buying new equipment with what we're getting.

01:19:23And that's a real advantage.

01:19:25And your point is well taken,

01:19:27that the vast majority of the funding in the supplemental

01:19:31actually goes to American industrial companies

01:19:38and creates good jobs.

01:19:40So it's important as far as sustaining our industrial base

01:19:44and strengthening it as well.

01:19:48Secretary, I understand that last month,

01:19:52the Department of Homeland Security

01:19:55once again requested emergency support from the military

01:20:00for Southwest border operations.

01:20:03And the Pentagon is estimating that the cost

01:20:07will be at least $490 million,

01:20:11and most of it's going to have to be borne by the Army.

01:20:17First question, has DHS,

01:20:20the Department of Homeland Security,

01:20:22ever reimbursed the Department of Defense

01:20:26for these additional costs that you're bearing

01:20:30to assist DHS on the border?

01:20:34I believe, Senator, that out of, I think,

01:20:3820 years of supporting DHS,

01:20:40they have reimbursed us one year.

01:20:42I could be wrong on that,

01:20:43but generally they have not reimbursed us

01:20:46for the support we've offered,

01:20:47which I think goes to Chair Murray's point

01:20:49about the importance of adequately resourcing,

01:20:52not just DOD, but other important agencies like DHS.

01:20:56I think it does as well, but it concerns me

01:21:01because $500 million is not an inconsequential cost,

01:21:07and it means you're going to have to rob

01:21:09some other underfunded program

01:21:12in order to meet what is a very legitimate need.

01:21:19It seems to me that this is a perfect example

01:21:23of something that should have been in the budget request.

01:21:30It's not because, as you point out,

01:21:32this has been going on for many years.

01:21:36Would you support an emergency supplemental

01:21:41to cover those costs?

01:21:44Certainly, I think they could be considered

01:21:46as part of a supplemental.

01:21:50I do want to emphasize that the Army

01:21:51has always answered the call.

01:21:53We have been in support of our friends

01:21:55in the Customs and Border Patrol,

01:21:58but as you said, it's a significant outlay for us.

01:22:00I think we've already spent $270 million this year,

01:22:04so a supplemental would certainly be helpful

01:22:06for something like this.

01:22:08Thank you, and finally, let me just reinforce

01:22:13what Senator Coons said about the state partnerships

01:22:17with the National Guard.

01:22:20The one with Maine, with Montenegro and Maine,

01:22:23it's applying for another partnership right now,

01:22:27was tremendously successful in getting Montenegro

01:22:31prepared for its NATO responsibilities,

01:22:34and it was just a terrific experience on both sides.

01:22:40So that is a program that I hope

01:22:42we will continue to support.

01:22:45Thank you.

01:22:46Thank you.

01:22:47Senator Moran, do you have any additional questions?

01:22:49I do, thank you very much.

01:22:51A couple of questions in the realm

01:22:53of those who are departing the service

01:22:56in my veteran's capacity.

01:22:58Value of veterans bring to the workforce.

01:23:02There is need for transitioning of service members

01:23:05to be appropriately credentialed

01:23:07and translate their skills that they learned

01:23:10in the military into their next career.

01:23:11Secretary, do you think a soldier

01:23:13will be more or less hireable after their transition

01:23:15if they have certifications that translate

01:23:18a breadth of experience to potential employers?

01:23:22I certainly think helping position our soldiers

01:23:25to have credentials and certificates

01:23:27that help them be as marketable as possible

01:23:29when they transition is valuable.

01:23:31And is that happening?

01:23:32Yes, we have, as I'm sure you know,

01:23:34a credentialing assistance program

01:23:37that we've been piloting.

01:23:39It's been wildly successful.

01:23:41I think part of the challenge the chief and I have

01:23:44is putting up some guardrails around that

01:23:46to make sure that we can afford it,

01:23:48again, inside of our flat top line.

01:23:50But we are supporting our soldiers

01:23:52in getting certifications and credentials.

01:23:55That answer gives me a suggestion that I'll pursue.

01:23:59General George, caisson delays outline the Army's path

01:24:05outline the Army's path forward

01:24:06on what conditions you need to meet

01:24:10to resume operations of horse-drawn carousins

01:24:13at Arlington National Cemetery.

01:24:18I'm gonna mention a couple things

01:24:19and I'm gonna turn it over to my ranger buddy

01:24:21here on the right,

01:24:22because I know she spent a lot of time on this

01:24:24more than I have.

01:24:25But I think we're looking at, Senator,

01:24:28is conditions based.

01:24:30I mean, we wanna do this.

01:24:31We're obviously, what the support we provide

01:24:34at Arlington National Cemetery is sacred to us

01:24:38and to all of our veterans.

01:24:40And we're trying to stand up this capability.

01:24:43I think we have the right experts

01:24:44that are on board doing that,

01:24:46as well as General Breedenkamp kind of overseeing that,

01:24:49hiring the right people, making sure.

01:24:51And the problem we had wasn't created.

01:24:54It took time.

01:24:56And so I think what the approach that we're taking,

01:24:59I think, is a very good one, very sound.

01:25:02We can come over and talk to you about it in detail,

01:25:04but I'll turn it over to my.

01:25:07Sure, this is something, Senator Moran,

01:25:09we've been working really hard on

01:25:10and it's surprisingly complex and challenging.

01:25:13But as the chief said, it's gonna be several more months

01:25:17before we can offer caisson funerals again.

01:25:20And that is because, among other things,

01:25:21we have to buy 30 more horses to have enough horses

01:25:26to provide this very specialized capability.

01:25:29We have to find the pasture land to support those horses.

01:25:33We have now, I think, gotten on top of making sure

01:25:36that we have the expert veterinary personnel

01:25:38that we need to help us care properly for these horses.

01:25:42And the stables at Joint Base Henderson Hall Meyers

01:25:47are gonna have to be reconstructed.

01:25:49So we have quite a bit of work to do

01:25:52before we can operate that particular service,

01:25:55which is so important, safely and efficiently.

01:25:58But happy to come talk to you in more detail.

01:26:00Thank you.

01:26:01It does demonstrate that nothing's simple.

01:26:04But I appreciate your attention.

01:26:06I think it's a really important and meaningful experience

01:26:09for veterans, their families,

01:26:11for military service and their families.

01:26:13Thank you.

01:26:14Final question.

01:26:16Total Army analysis provided details

01:26:19of new counter UAS batteries

01:26:22to be employed as division assets.

01:26:25Is this capability on schedule

01:26:28to be delivered to the initial units

01:26:30in FY 24 and through 29?

01:26:33And where is the Army accepting risk

01:26:36in the development of this capability?

01:26:39Thank you, Senator.

01:26:39And the Chief may want to add on this.

01:26:42We are on schedule, as we have said throughout this hearing,

01:26:47building up our counter UAS capability,

01:26:50both the systems and the formations

01:26:54to be able to perform that function is critical.

01:26:58And so we are on schedule right now.

01:27:00I believe that the counter UAS battery

01:27:03coming to Fort Riley is supposed to arrive in FY 29.

01:27:06And we are making it a priority

01:27:08to make sure that we have both the equipment

01:27:11that will be needed for that

01:27:12and also the soldiers who can man that.

01:27:15General, this has been a theme for you today.

01:27:18Sure, I'm happy to add something on counter UAS.

01:27:21I think we didn't get an opportunity

01:27:24to talk about recruiting.

01:27:25And I think that that's the most important thing.

01:27:28You know, I kind of said that in my upfront statement

01:27:30about getting people to come into.

01:27:32And thankfully, we're looking a little bit better.

01:27:35We're ahead, slightly ahead of projections.

01:27:38And we're gonna continue to focus on that.

01:27:41That's what I think we really need to do

01:27:43is get the people in and to continue to grow

01:27:46because this is a capability that we need

01:27:48for 1st Infantry Division and really everywhere.

01:27:51And then it's also, I will tell you,

01:27:53on counter UAS is something

01:27:54that we're gonna have to continue

01:27:56to look at capabilities at Echelon and what we need to do.

01:28:00And we're gonna have to continuously transform

01:28:02in that area as well.

01:28:04Sherborne, I won't ask a question,

01:28:05but I will conclude.

01:28:06We did not talk about recruitment.

01:28:08It's one of the most important things

01:28:09on capability of the Army to meet our country's needs.

01:28:13I would offer, if you'd point me in the right direction,

01:28:16one of my goals to help in recruitment

01:28:19is to further expand the availability

01:28:21of junior ROTC in Kansas.

01:28:24And if you want to point somebody in my direction

01:28:26to kind of help me through that process,

01:28:29I'd be delighted to help find a school

01:28:31or schools that might be interested in.

01:28:33We have great junior ROTC programs

01:28:37at Junction City and at Leavenworth.

01:28:39I'd like to see that elsewhere.

01:28:43Thank you.

01:28:44Thank you very much.

01:28:45Thank you to our witnesses today.

01:28:46Senators may submit additional written questions.

01:28:49We ask that you respond to them within a reasonable time.

01:28:52Defense Subcommittee will next reconvene

01:28:54on Tuesday, June 4th at 10 a.m.

01:28:56for a classified hearing on space-related matters.

01:28:59With that, the Subcommittee stands in recess.

Patty Murray Leads Senate Appropriations Committee Hearing On Army's FY25 Budget Request

Category

Transcript

Recommended