• 7 months ago
The House Judiciary Committee held a field hearing on Friday in Arizona to discuss the border.

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Transcript
00:00:00 of an open border. We thought it couldn't get much worse, but it did. So we are back
00:00:06 in Arizona where the residents feel the effects of the Biden's open border
00:00:09 policies each and every day. The effects of nearly 5 million illegal aliens
00:00:14 released into US communities, the effects of criminal alien gangs flooding the US
00:00:18 with illicit drugs, the effects of an unknown number of aliens on the terrorist
00:00:22 watch list evading Border Patrol detection and disappearing into our
00:00:26 communities like the one with ISIS ties from Uzbekistan who crossed the Arizona
00:00:31 border back in February of 2022. The Department of Homeland Security's own
00:00:36 published numbers show that the Tucson Border Patrol sector leads the nation in
00:00:41 the southwest border encounters with at least 366,000 of the more than 1.3
00:00:47 million illegal alien encounters so far this fiscal year. Illegal
00:00:53 immigration is such a problem here that last year the Department of Homeland
00:00:56 Security closed the Lukeville port of entry for more than a month during the
00:01:01 holiday season when legitimate travel across the border is at its peak so that
00:01:05 CBC officers could help process the huge number of illegal aliens entering the
00:01:09 country. The rampant illegal immigration welcomed by the Biden administration
00:01:13 devastated this area's holiday economy, but you don't have to believe me that
00:01:18 the border is in chaos. You can believe the chief border patrol agent
00:01:22 for the Tucson sector. According to Chief John Modlin, on April 30th the Border
00:01:27 Patrol and Tucson law enforcement interdicted over a load of more than 57
00:01:33 pounds of methamphetamine and more than 88 pounds of fentanyl. On April 24th,
00:01:39 chief posted on social media that agents had arrested an illegal border
00:01:43 crosser who had an extensive criminal history including convictions for the
00:01:46 facilitation of homicide and aggravated assault with a weapon. On April 18th
00:01:52 agents arrested an illegal border crosser who also turned out to be
00:01:54 convicted of a vicious assault. On the 14th of April Tucson agents apprehended
00:01:58 a group of illegal alien border crossers dressed in camouflage in a remote part
00:02:03 of the sector. On the 8th of April agents seized 158,000
00:02:08 fentanyl pills. March 26 agents apprehended an illegal alien border
00:02:13 crosser who was a gang member with a felony conviction for assault with a
00:02:17 deadly weapon in California. On the 25th of March they apprehended a group of 15
00:02:21 illegal alien border crossers dressed in camouflage. On the 20th agents
00:02:25 apprehended an illegal alien border crosser for viciously assaulting a child.
00:02:31 And those are just a few of the examples from the last couple of months that the
00:02:35 Border Patrol knows about and tells the public. Imagine what is happening that
00:02:39 Border Patrol doesn't know or that this administration won't let
00:02:44 agents tell us. Of course, do you know who else knows what is going on the border?
00:02:50 The residents of the great state of Arizona know. And a few of them are here
00:02:53 today to share how President Biden's open border policies negatively
00:02:57 affected their communities and their lives. We will hear from a rancher who
00:03:01 sees illegal aliens in camouflage on his land every day. We will hear from a mom, a
00:03:06 mom whose family has been forever altered because President Biden refuses
00:03:11 to prevent the Chinese government from teaming up with Mexican cartels to flood
00:03:15 our country with fentanyl. We will hear from a Border Patrol chief who knows
00:03:19 firsthand the disaster that President Biden's policies created on the
00:03:22 southwest border and the negative effects that the open border has on
00:03:26 agents morale. And we will hear from a former sheriff's deputy about the
00:03:29 dangerous condition President Biden's open border creates in communities all
00:03:34 across Arizona. They all have different stories to tell but they all agree that
00:03:38 the border has never been as much of a dangerous disaster as it is today. It
00:03:44 went from the most secure border in recent history to the most unsecure
00:03:47 border in recent history in just a matter of days. And ultimately only Joe
00:03:52 Biden is responsible for that. Before going to our witnesses and recognizing
00:03:56 them and swearing them in, I want to give a chance to our host, Congressman
00:04:00 Cisco Monty, who as I said, has become a good friend of this committee, good
00:04:03 friend of all of us and is doing a great job in the United States Congress
00:04:06 trying to address these issues and others. I want to give him a chance to
00:04:09 make some introductory remarks. Congress, just money you recognize. Thank you
00:04:13 Chairman. Thank you so much for the opportunity to be here and thank you for
00:04:16 choosing our community to come and add more attention to this pressing issue. I
00:04:22 want to thank all my colleagues as well in the committee for making the trip
00:04:25 down here. For people here that know these members have different districts
00:04:30 from around the country and they leave home to be here and see what's see what's
00:04:36 really happening at the border. And to the witnesses of course, thank you so
00:04:39 much. And then the audience as well for making the time. This is an
00:04:43 important issue. We've always known that we have recognized that and and of
00:04:48 course our host town, the town of Saguarita with Mayor Murphy, a good
00:04:51 friend and someone that has been steadfast on this issue and supportive
00:04:54 as well. It does take all of us to highlight the importance of the issue
00:04:59 and that's what we've been doing and working together. The testimonies you'll
00:05:01 hear today will highlight something that we know quite well here in southern
00:05:06 Arizona and that's the border is broken. That's not just a saying. It's not a
00:05:11 a random line. We've seen that and the evidence is there. It's not an opinion.
00:05:15 It's a fact and we can see that with the numbers and it's having a
00:05:18 devastating impact here on daily basis. The border crisis in any crisis here
00:05:24 are not anything new that we haven't seen in this region. But we're
00:05:27 experiencing now it's something that we have never seen before. The numbers,
00:05:30 the the the amount, the consequences of it, the tragic results of what fentanyl
00:05:38 has done to our community is something that we never even imagined. From public
00:05:45 safety to trade and commerce as well to other industries like agriculture, no
00:05:50 aspect of life in Arizona is untouched by this border crisis. It's a reality
00:05:54 that my constituents live every day that you all live every day. Our local
00:05:58 communities feel abandoned by the federal government and and this White
00:06:02 House and this administration are paying the price for their inaction.
00:06:07 Both literally and figuratively. Local hospitals pay out of pocket for
00:06:11 medical care for the flow of migration that we're seeing and counties foot the
00:06:15 bill for bus tickets to transport individuals to different areas. And then
00:06:20 of course we have families here like Miss Fagan, Alexander's and also the
00:06:24 Duns that I just met today that have lost loved ones to accidental fentanyl
00:06:30 poisoning and ranchers who live on the border like Mr Chilton that we've
00:06:34 talked about this several times are afraid to leave their houses due to
00:06:37 cartel activity coming through their property. Families like Mr Chilton's
00:06:41 that have been here for generations and what they're seeing now they've never
00:06:45 seen before. And to our witnesses and those watching at home, I want you to
00:06:49 know that the colleagues here that I'm joined with today are listening and
00:06:53 they're paying attention from all across the country and that they're
00:06:55 represented here. They care about this. I know because I work with them every
00:06:59 single week and I've become a friend of this committee. In fact this committee,
00:07:04 the Judiciary Committee, it helped pass the bill that I introduced not too long
00:07:08 ago and it passed out of the House I may say with bipartisan support with over 56
00:07:13 Democrats voting for this as well in every single Republican. HR 5885, the
00:07:18 agent Raul Gonzalez Officer Safety Act. But if it wasn't for this committee and
00:07:21 the leadership in this committee then we that bill would have never made it
00:07:25 through. But they were able to speed it up, we were able to vote on it. If you
00:07:29 not, if you don't know this committee, this this bill deals with high-speed
00:07:33 chases and tackling that issue that has become just a constant threat in our
00:07:38 communities of cartels recruiting young people from Tucson and from Phoenix to
00:07:43 come and drive at high-speed chases and drive migrants up north, endangering not
00:07:47 only their lives and the lives of the migrants but also the lives of innocent
00:07:50 bystanders. This is a humanitarian crisis as much as it is a national security
00:07:55 crisis as well. Humanitarian for those being trafficked, those women and
00:07:58 children being trafficked and also for our own citizens and communities here
00:08:01 that are being abused and are being introduced to this deadly deadly drug
00:08:06 offense. So that in many cases the poisoning happens by accident. So I want
00:08:11 to thank once again my colleagues for being here for helping us pass that bill.
00:08:14 It's on the Senate now and it's up to the Senate to also take action on it and
00:08:19 it's up to this White House to take action. So again thank you to my
00:08:22 colleagues for being here. Thank you chairman for the opportunity to wave in
00:08:25 and to be able to participate in today. And with that sir I yield back. And thank
00:08:31 you for your leadership on this issue and so many others. We will now introduce
00:08:34 our witnesses. Mr. Chris Clem retired from a 27-year career in the United
00:08:39 States Border Patrol as the chief patrol agent in the human sector in December
00:08:43 2022. He served the bulk of that career on the southwest US border but also
00:08:47 spent time in leadership positions at Border Patrol headquarters in Washington
00:08:51 DC. Mr. Clem earned an Master of Science in
00:08:54 Management and Leadership in criminal justice and a BS in criminal justice
00:08:57 from Sam Houston State University and a certificate of graduation for senior
00:09:01 managers in government from the Harvard Kennedy School. Mr. Clem thank you for
00:09:04 your service and thank you for being here today. Mr. Jim Chilton as
00:09:08 Congressman Siscomoy mentioned is a fifth-generation Arizona rancher who
00:09:11 founded the Chilton Ranch and Cattle Company with his father and brother in
00:09:14 1979. Not only is Mr. Chilton an accomplished rancher and businessman but
00:09:19 he also served as a special assistant to the US Senator from Arizona. Mr. Chilton
00:09:23 earned a Bachelor of Science and a Master of Science in Economics and a
00:09:27 Master of Arts in Political Science from Arizona State University. Again Mr.
00:09:31 Chilton thank you for your service and for being here. Mr. Jacob Karchner
00:09:34 recently retired as a detective from the Cochise County Sheriff's Department
00:09:37 after a 20-year career. During that time Detective Karchner served on the
00:09:42 department's ranch patrol and was a founding member of the Sobre unit which
00:09:45 worked closely with landowners to strategically place cameras on border
00:09:49 lands to catch human and drug smugglers as well as other criminals crossing the
00:09:53 border. Mr. Karchner is also a rancher whose family has owned land in Cochise
00:09:57 County since 1891. Thank you as well and Mrs. Jill Fagan-Alexandra.
00:10:03 Alexandra is a wife and mother of nine children. She's an accomplished writer,
00:10:07 publisher, and speaker. Went back to school while she was in her 40s to
00:10:11 become a labor and delivery nurse. Based on her family's experience Miss Fagan-
00:10:15 Alexandra is now on a mission to promote awareness of the fentanyl crisis and how
00:10:20 Arizona kids and families can protect themselves from being fentanyl victims.
00:10:24 We thank you for being here and sharing your important story and for all your
00:10:28 work. We welcome our witnesses, thank them for appearing today. We will begin by
00:10:31 swearing you in. Would you please raise, now please rise excuse me and raise your
00:10:34 right hand. Do you swear or affirm under penalty of perjury that the testimony
00:10:39 you are about to give is true and correct to the best of your knowledge,
00:10:42 information, and belief so help you God. Let the record reflect that all witnesses
00:10:48 have answered in the affirmative. You can be seated. Thank you so much. Please know
00:10:52 that your written testimony will be entered into the record in its entirety.
00:10:54 Accordingly, we ask that you summarize your testimony in five minutes but we'll
00:10:59 be fine. We'll give you a little extra if you need a little extra. That's
00:11:02 up to you. And we're going to just go right down the list just like we
00:11:04 introduced you and we'll finish with Miss Fagan-Alexandra. But let's start
00:11:07 with Mr. Clem. You're recognized for five minutes. Good morning Chairman, members of
00:11:12 the committee. My name is Chris Clem. I am a retired chief patrol agent of the US
00:11:15 Border Patrol. I began my career in 1995 about 150 miles east of here in
00:11:20 Lordsburg, New Mexico as a GS-5 Border Patrol trainee and retired nearly 17
00:11:25 months ago about 250 miles west of here as a senior executive service chief
00:11:29 patrol agent in Yuma, Arizona. Therefore, my responses to your questions were based
00:11:34 on my recollection of my experiences over the last now 28 plus years. I spent
00:11:39 most of my career along the southwest border and I spent a few years in
00:11:42 Washington, DC and New Orleans, Louisiana. I was a career government employee who
00:11:45 served under five presidential administrations starting under
00:11:49 Clinton and ending under Biden. I was not a political appointee. I promoted
00:11:54 through the ranks through competitive process and commanded four Border Patrol
00:11:57 stations across New Mexico, Texas and Arizona. I served as the deputy chief
00:12:01 patrol agent in New Orleans sector, El Paso sector, was acting chief in Big Bend,
00:12:06 Texas for nearly six months before being promoted to chief patrol agent of the
00:12:09 Yuma, Arizona sector for two years until my retirement. I spent time as an agent
00:12:14 in remote locations as well as urban environments. And I can tell you if
00:12:18 you've been to one station, you have been to one station. If you've been to
00:12:21 one sector, you have been to one sector. Each location is different with its own
00:12:25 set of unique circumstances from terrain to infrastructure to communities and to
00:12:29 threats. However, the one thing that is consistent across the spectrum without
00:12:33 border security, our agents, our community, the migrants and our country
00:12:37 are vulnerable. While immigration and border security are closely related,
00:12:40 they're not mutually exclusive. However, without proper border security in the
00:12:45 form of physical security, border patrol agents, strong policies and
00:12:48 consequences, the integrity of the immigration system is compromised and
00:12:52 the founding principles surrounding the rule of law suffer. My statement
00:12:55 testimony today will be focused on border security to which I would be
00:12:58 considered a subject matter expert. Immigration, as mentioned, is related but
00:13:02 could only be effective and efficient when the border is secured. It is also
00:13:07 my testimony that each administration that I served under made efforts to
00:13:10 secure our border based on the requirements of border patrol agents
00:13:13 except the Biden administration. Under President Clinton, a hiring push for
00:13:17 more agents began. I was one of them under President Bush and the result of
00:13:21 the tragedy of September 11, 2001 infrastructure plans and one of the
00:13:25 first national border patrol strategies were implemented. Even under President
00:13:29 Obama, Obama, there were hundreds of miles of border wall constructed,
00:13:32 especially early in his terms. We also know that build a wall was a fixture of
00:13:37 candidate Trump campaign but became a reality under President Trump. Let me be
00:13:41 clear. President Trump implemented requirements which were a culmination
00:13:45 of decades of experience from border patrol agents. The wall was much more
00:13:49 than a wall. It was a system to include wall technology, access road and even
00:13:54 strong policies to close loopholes. I will state that the system in place in
00:13:59 2020 was one of the best we could have asked for as a country, even with party
00:14:03 politics and funding, making things difficult. This ended and came to a
00:14:07 screeching halt under President Biden. At the end of fiscal year 2020, Yuma
00:14:13 sector had just over 8800 arrests. That number leaped to over 114,000 in
00:14:18 fiscal year 2021 and over 312,000 in fiscal year 22. This committee and
00:14:24 Congress have access to all the available data and the staunch
00:14:27 difference between the previous administration in the current is gut
00:14:30 riching and jaw dropping. I understand that every threat to our great nation
00:14:34 will come directly across the border. But why would we willing to risk it? We
00:14:38 know there are countless gaps and vulnerabilities create along the border,
00:14:41 specifically the southern border. We're on the heels of two recent testimonies
00:14:45 from FBI Director Ray. They indicate the threats are real with hot spots around
00:14:49 the world that have happened under President Biden's administration. There
00:14:51 are more than enough reasons to secure our border and put back in place the
00:14:55 plan as intended to include infrastructure, technology and policies.
00:14:59 We need the wall installed and completed where it makes sense. We need
00:15:02 technology installed as intended, and we need to increase the number of
00:15:06 border trade and border security personnel as requested by senior field
00:15:09 leaders. Lastly, I want to thank you for holding a field hearing. I've been
00:15:13 advocating for more field hearings so we, the people can meet you and feel
00:15:17 represented. While it's difficult to pull off, it's essential for Americans
00:15:20 to be truly represented. I understand many will claim this is a political
00:15:24 stunt, and I would counter by stating talking about the hearing and not
00:15:27 acting on behalf of the community so greatly impacted by this border crisis
00:15:30 is the political stock. I'm grateful for your willingness to come to the
00:15:33 border again to hear from those that have lived it and are living it today.
00:15:36 My full and complete statement has been submitted. I look forward to your
00:15:39 questions. Thank you, Mr Clem. And I would just agree with you. It is
00:15:43 anything but a political stunt. There's a reason we have Mr Crane, Mr Biggs,
00:15:47 Mr Siskimani from your great state here and others from around the country. We
00:15:50 have the chairman of the Immigration Subcommittee from California, Mr
00:15:53 McClintock here, which we had some Democrats that would actually show up
00:15:57 because it's not a stunt. It's about dealing with a real problem and doing
00:16:00 everything we can to highlight how serious it is. So thank you for your
00:16:02 testimony. Mr Chilton, you're recognized for five minutes.
00:16:05 Thank you, Mr Chairman and honorable Congressman. My name is Jim Chilton.
00:16:14 I'm a fifth generation Arizona rancher
00:16:17 from the small town of Aravaca, southwest of Tucson.
00:16:23 The ranch includes private properties, state school trust lands and federal
00:16:30 grazing permits. My ancestors drove cattle from Texas to Arizona
00:16:36 in 139 years ago.
00:16:41 This... Do I see a map here? Oh, you're right. This map
00:16:48 of our 50,000...
00:16:50 The southern end of our ranch is the international boundary for about five
00:17:00 and one half miles. The black lines are our ranch boundaries. The blue lines
00:17:07 is the international border with Mexico, and the red line is the Ruby Road.
00:17:14 Wall construction was stopped on our ranch by President Biden on January
00:17:23 20, 2021, with a half a mile left to go on our ranch, and there were
00:17:30 additional gaps all along the wall.
00:17:34 For about 10 years, I have collected film from hidden motion activated
00:17:43 cameras of drug packers, previously deported persons, criminals and other
00:17:49 persons not seeking asylum and crossing north through our ranch.
00:17:55 Of approximately 100 trails on our ranch, only five have cameras.
00:18:03 I have
00:18:07 images now of over 3,050 people coming through the ranch, marching north.
00:18:19 Are any of these 3,050 terrorists?
00:18:23 This is a national security issue.
00:18:27 Simultaneously,
00:18:32 the cartel is rooting massive numbers of asylum seekers through the end
00:18:43 of the wall on our ranch and a gap in California Gulch. Last month,
00:18:51 that's April, approximately 5,460 of these undocumented persons were
00:19:01 apprehended, processed and released. They are wearing street clothes and
00:19:08 seeking the border patrol and appear to come from all different parts of the
00:19:14 world.
00:19:14 The amount of trash and human waste left by these people is appalling.
00:19:22 The failure to secure the border allows border crosser deaths. We've had
00:19:30 three deaths on our ranch in 2023 and I estimate 35 deaths on our ranch
00:19:39 since
00:19:40 1987.
00:19:43 The cartel scouts occupy our mountains and they facilitate flooding drugs
00:19:52 into our country.
00:19:54 Including is the fact that their devastating crosser caused fires and
00:20:05 some
00:20:07 causes substantial environmental damage. Part of the solution is to complete
00:20:15 the construction of a wall,
00:20:17 including
00:20:21 fiber optic cable, electronics, cameras and sensors. I believe in legal
00:20:30 immigration, not illegal immigration. We are a nation of immigrants and they
00:20:40 do great things for our country. Bottom line, everybody should be legal. My
00:20:47 thought is, is we need to expand the number of people legally coming into
00:20:53 the country and securing our border. Right now it's open and it's President
00:21:01 Biden's fault. Thank you.
00:21:03 Said Thank you, Mr Chilton. Mr Carter, you're recognized and just pull that
00:21:09 microphone nice and close.
00:21:11 Go right ahead.
00:21:14 Mr Chairman, members of this committee, I want to thank you for allowing me to
00:21:17 speak today and for your willingness to come here and identify where the
00:21:22 problem lies.
00:21:22 I'm 1/5 generation resident of Cochise County of both sides of my family,
00:21:28 ranching and raising families here for over 100 years. I'm a rancher within
00:21:33 the border region and recently retired law enforcement over my lifetime in
00:21:37 Cochise County and my tenure with the Cochise County Sheriff's Office. I've
00:21:42 seen ebbs and flows of illegal immigration and the effects that it has
00:21:45 on those of us that live in rural Arizona. This is the worst I've ever
00:21:49 seen.
00:21:49 Growing up, there were always those wanting to come to America for a better
00:21:54 life. The American dream, as it were, those folks would pass through, maybe
00:21:58 stop and ask for water or food and be on their way. Then larger groups
00:22:02 started coming through, cutting holes and fences, draining water tanks,
00:22:05 leaving trails of trash in their wake and in some cases succumbing to the
00:22:10 elements.
00:22:11 I've ranched throughout Cochise County and felt first dealt firsthand with the
00:22:15 border related issues. The environmental impact caused by millions of people
00:22:19 coming through
00:22:20 have devastated ranch lands in Cochise County, making it more difficult for
00:22:25 ranching families to continue their legacy and heritage.
00:22:27 Several multi generational ranches in Cochise County have sold over the last
00:22:33 decade to large corporations or absentee owners, in part, if not all due
00:22:38 to the increasing pressure felt by the ongoing border crisis. Cochise County
00:22:43 has been on the front lines of this crisis for decades, and I've had the
00:22:47 privilege of serving those who are affected on a daily basis. Cochise
00:22:50 County citizens and ranchers. During the last 10 years of my career, as part of
00:22:55 the ranch patrol and Sabre team, which consisted of a handful of guys
00:22:58 dedicated to identifying the threats from international smuggling
00:23:02 organizations and doing everything we could to stop them. Sabre stands for the
00:23:08 Southern Arizona Border Region Enforcement team, and it's a
00:23:11 collaborative effort with other law enforcement partners. Live feed game
00:23:15 cameras set up in the rural areas between the ports of entry to detect
00:23:18 illegal activity.
00:23:19 Prior to 2020, the border issues in Cochise County were what we referred to
00:23:25 as controlled chaos in that law enforcement agencies working together
00:23:29 were able to respond and address issues as they were detected. The traffic here
00:23:35 and the majority of Southern Arizona does not give up or asylum seekers as
00:23:40 seen on the limited media coverage. What comes across the Arizona desert are
00:23:45 generally males 18 to 40 wearing camouflage from head to toe, including
00:23:50 wearing carpet over their shoes. So to make it harder to detect and track
00:23:54 them since 2021, the the detected flow of military age males,
00:24:01 um, that's been detected on the Sabre program has increased over tenfold from
00:24:07 the years prior
00:24:08 and drug smuggling or events where the state crime was committed. Deputies
00:24:13 would take this position on the cases, but in cases involving illegal
00:24:17 immigration,
00:24:17 coordination was made with the corresponding border patrol stations for
00:24:22 the apprehensions of all the suspected illegal entries documented by the Sabre
00:24:27 program. Since its inception, less than 35% of all detections were
00:24:31 apprehended and identified
00:24:32 since 2021. When I would encounter these individuals, our conversations
00:24:39 would turn to where they're going, where they come from or why, um, they
00:24:43 would always tell me about these commercials that they would see in
00:24:46 their home countries. And there would be people on the TV telling him, come
00:24:50 to Oregon, come to New York, come to Chicago. There's a job waiting for,
00:24:55 you know, questions asked
00:24:58 the destination and the, uh, the job that they were seeking weren't always
00:25:04 the same, but multiple times. I mean, these commercials would always come up.
00:25:10 So they would also tell me that it was costing him anywhere between $6,000
00:25:14 and $8,000, sometimes more that they had to pay the cartel in order to cross.
00:25:20 Most of the people that I had contact with didn't have that kind of money to
00:25:24 pay the cartel, telling me they would owe that amount to the cartel once they
00:25:27 reach their final destination, wherever that may be.
00:25:29 As the traffic increased, so did the need for transportation of the cartels
00:25:35 chattel. And I call him chattel because they at that point are property of the
00:25:41 cartel. The cartels use social media platforms to recruit drivers to pick
00:25:46 these folks up and transport them to larger transportation hubs such as
00:25:49 Tucson or Phoenix. These low drivers, as they're called, are told by their
00:25:53 handlers where to go and when to run from law enforcement. These drivers
00:25:57 come from all walks of life, ranging in age from 13 to over 70 drug addicts to
00:26:03 suburban grandmothers, but all have one thing in common. They all work for
00:26:07 transnational human trafficking organizations, offers to pay cash money
00:26:12 for drivers, entice people from all over the country to come to southern
00:26:15 Arizona and transport illegal aliens to further the cartels operation.
00:26:22 This operation comes at a cost for residents in Cochise County with over a
00:26:26 dozen deaths from high speed collisions over the last couple of years, all tied
00:26:30 to human smuggling events.
00:26:31 Okay.
00:26:33 These incidents have become so commonplace that even when a light turns
00:26:39 green, residents of Cochise County wait to see if a high speed load driver is
00:26:43 going to run the red light before proceeding into the intersection. When
00:26:47 one of these low drivers does stop or evade law enforcement, a common
00:26:50 response is for every occupant of the vehicle to run in a different direction,
00:26:54 lessening the chance of capture. This puts not only criminals already fleeing
00:26:58 from law enforcement onto our ranches and into our neighborhoods, but also
00:27:02 unknown aliens who are literally in a foreign country who will do anything to
00:27:06 avoid capture and have to try and find a way to survive. Again, thank you for
00:27:11 being here and allowing me to speak. But as of today, we as a country have no
00:27:15 control nor knowledge of who or what is coming across our border. Our southern
00:27:20 border is being controlled by the cartels and we need to find a way to
00:27:23 regain that control. We have happy to answer any questions. Thank you, Mr
00:27:27 Carter. And it's again underscores why Mr Siskimani's legislation on the high
00:27:31 speed chases is so so important. Miss Fagan Alexander, you're recognized for
00:27:35 five minutes.
00:27:36 Chairman Jordan, other members of Congress. Thank you. Real close there.
00:27:40 Thank you. I hear you.
00:27:43 Chairman Jordan and other members of Congress. Thank you for coming to
00:27:45 Arizona to hear one perspective of how the open border is impacting families
00:27:50 in Arizona.
00:27:50 I recently lost two of my boys just three weeks apart due to the fentanyl
00:27:55 crisis in Arizona. My 20 year old Sam had been in and out of detention since
00:27:59 he was 14 years old, mostly for alcohol related incidents. He typically stayed
00:28:03 away from hard drugs, but at 17 he went to prison for a year for a crime he
00:28:07 committed while he was high on math. When he got out, he was excited to stay
00:28:10 clean. He wouldn't even take his 80 d meds because he was worried he might
00:28:13 abuse them. Over the next year, he worked hard at setting up a new life. He
00:28:18 found a girlfriend and got a job, a car in an apartment. He seemed to be doing
00:28:21 well for a while, but then it all began to fall apart. His girlfriend moved out
00:28:26 because he started using again and not just pot or math. He was buying fentanyl
00:28:29 because it was cheap, potent and easy to find. He lost his job and on April 6
00:28:34 2023 while he was high, he got arrested on intake. He was honest about his drug
00:28:40 use. Deputies discovered he also had covid, so they put him in isolation,
00:28:43 which together with coming down from fentanyl put him at greater risk for
00:28:47 self harm experiencing the effects of covid and fentanyl withdrawal. Sam
00:28:51 reported intense muscle and bone pain, chills, sweats, uncontrollable shaking
00:28:56 and vomiting, and he decided to end his life by hanging himself in jail. It
00:29:01 wasn't until days later that his dad never notified and eventually allowed
00:29:05 to see him while he was on life support, waiting for a determination of brain
00:29:09 death. Even though Sam had quite often made poor choices, he was a good person
00:29:13 and he had a good heart.
00:29:15 When he got his driver's license after getting out of prison, he chose to be an
00:29:19 organ donor. Our family honors his wish and on April 16th, Sam was able to
00:29:24 donate his best kidney to his 30 year old cousin who was on dialysis due to
00:29:29 pharmaceutical kidney failure and for whom our family had been praying for
00:29:32 months would find a donor. Sam's other kidney and pancreas were gifted to a
00:29:36 woman in her thirties, his liver to a man in his forties and his heart by
00:29:40 strange coincidence or by miracle was gifted to the adopted son of my
00:29:45 cousin's friend who was near death due to congenital heart complications.
00:29:49 As my family tried to move forward from this tragic experience, we all suffered
00:29:53 from grief to varying degrees. Every time one of my kids left the house, I
00:29:58 was sure I was going to get a call that they've been killed. My constant
00:30:02 thoughts and prayers for the for were for their safety.
00:30:06 We went to clean out Sam's apartment and I took out all the paraphernalia I
00:30:10 found before letting the kids in. I threatened them not to bring anything
00:30:13 home that they shouldn't, but I let them each pick a few things of Sam's that
00:30:16 they wanted. A Dolly Parton shirt, a village and baseball cap, a llama
00:30:21 planting cup and a cup that says strangely mountains above the rest. Dad
00:30:26 became some of our new found favorite possessions. My 18 year old son
00:30:31 floundered in his last semester of schooling as did his 16 year old
00:30:34 brother. Gabe, my 13 year old, ended up getting suspended for forgetfully
00:30:38 bringing one of Sam's pocket knives to school in his jacket. I couldn't
00:30:42 believe it, but I also couldn't blame him.
00:30:45 My 11 year old daughter became my constant shadow, unwilling to be too
00:30:50 far away from me for any amount of time. None of us could think straight. We
00:30:54 were all wrapped in a fog of loss and sadness.
00:30:57 During the week that Gabe was suspended at home, he decided to change was in
00:31:02 order for his schooling. He picked out some online classes and was as excited
00:31:06 as only a 13 year old can. He confidently told us of his plans to
00:31:10 finish high school in just one year and to take over the world.
00:31:13 On Wednesday, May 3rd, just two and a half weeks after Sam's Honor Walk and
00:31:19 organ donation,
00:31:20 Gabe was found unresponsive with no pulse or respirations and he was blue
00:31:26 in the face.
00:31:28 Gabe had never shown signs of drug use. I have no knowledge that he was a
00:31:33 regular user of any substance. We found out later that he had a pill found at
00:31:38 Sam's house and we surmised that he took it that day.
00:31:41 I think he thought it would be fun to see what it was like to get high on
00:31:46 oxy.
00:31:46 When he said he wasn't feeling well and threw up, I think he realized he was
00:31:51 in danger and he was reaching out for help. I think after he showered and
00:31:55 said he was going to take a nap, he thought he was out of the woods.
00:31:58 I think he thought he was going to wake up that day, but he never woke up
00:32:02 again.
00:32:03 Valiant attempts were made by his dad, sheriff's officers, first responders
00:32:09 and medical staff to save him. But that night we were given the news that Gabe
00:32:12 had also suffered an oxygen brain injury due to respiratory failure caused by
00:32:16 fentanyl poisoning.
00:32:17 Through another nightmarish week in the ICU, we decided to give the gift of
00:32:23 life again through organ donation.
00:32:26 I cannot describe the grief and pain we personally experienced, nor the shock
00:32:30 of the organ donor network coordinators as we met again and made arrangements
00:32:37 for Gabe's gifts. Another honor walk was done and on May 9th, 2023, one year
00:32:43 ago yesterday, Gabe was able to impact seven lives and families by gifting his
00:32:48 kidneys to two men in their 70s,
00:32:50 his liver to a 15 year old boy.
00:32:54 And two of his heart valves and his cornea to others.
00:32:58 I never set out to be an influencer, a politician or a firebrand for change,
00:33:04 but the things I learned after my boys were in essence murdered by fentanyl
00:33:08 dealers, both shocked and angered me into action. Gabe's pill was not unique.
00:33:13 The DEA states that seven out of 10 pills they've seized and tested have
00:33:16 more than a lethal dose of fentanyl. The pill that Gabe took the end of his
00:33:22 life had more than five times the lethal dose of fentanyl. Everyone knows
00:33:27 the statistics on fentanyl deaths, but no one believes it will happen to them
00:33:31 just like I didn't. Did my boys play a part in their own deaths? Absolutely.
00:33:36 They made their choices and our family has to live with them. But this virtual
00:33:42 flood of pills both into and through Arizona, which has dramatically worsened
00:33:45 in the current administration, allowed my boys to make choices they may not
00:33:49 have without the current open border crisis. Nothing now will stop me from
00:33:54 teaching kids that one pill one time can kill from educating parents that
00:34:00 Narcan at home saves lives and from trying to close the border while
00:34:05 stiffening penalties for those producing, importing and selling fentanyl
00:34:09 in our country, knowing that every pill that comes into Arizona in this border
00:34:13 crisis is likely a death sentence for another child like mine or yours. I'm
00:34:19 asking our government to do the same. Thank you.
00:34:22 Thank you. Uh, thank you. Said his only mom can say it. So we we appreciate
00:34:29 you being here and for your testimony. Um, chair now recognizes the chairman
00:34:33 of the subcommittee on immigration, Mr McClintock from California. Well,
00:34:38 thank you, Mr Chairman. Thank you all for coming today. Mr Clem, during a
00:34:43 visit with Border Patrol agents last year in Yuma, uh, I reminded them
00:34:48 Congress has no power to enforce the law. Our role is to write the laws,
00:34:53 and I asked him what laws they needed us to write to be able to better do
00:34:57 their jobs. And they answered unanimously. We don't need new laws.
00:35:02 We need to enforce the laws we already have. Obviously, we can and we have
00:35:08 written laws to make it easier for future presidents to secure the border
00:35:13 is Donald Trump did make it harder for them to open the border as as Biden has
00:35:18 done. But is this still mainly a question of enforcement?
00:35:22 Yes, sir. I would agree with that. The laws in the books that have been
00:35:27 written of over the last decades allow us to do our job. It is the policy in
00:35:32 the direction coming out of the executive branch that, you know,
00:35:36 directs how we're going to do things. A USC 13 25 clearly says if you cross
00:35:40 the border outside of a port of entry, it is against the law, regardless of
00:35:44 your intent. And so, yeah, I don't believe we need new laws. I think we
00:35:48 just need new leadership and direction to encourage us to continue to enforce
00:35:53 the loss. As I recall, on inauguration day, our borders were pretty much
00:35:56 secure. The remain in Mexico policy of the Trump administration did slow phony
00:36:01 asylum claims to a trickle. The border wall was nearing completion. We were
00:36:05 actually enforcing court ordered deportations, returning illegals to
00:36:10 their own communities where word got out very quickly. It's not worth paying
00:36:14 the cartels thousands of dollars because you're just gonna end up back
00:36:18 here. Um, the laws didn't change on inauguration day. The presidency did.
00:36:24 And on that first day, Joe Biden rescinded the executive orders that
00:36:30 that Trump had issued to enforce our laws. What differences did you see on
00:36:34 the ground between the days before the inauguration and the days we're
00:36:39 seeing today?
00:36:40 I can tell you that in October of 2000 and 20, you must sector averaged where
00:36:46 I was going to be 25 arrest a day. It went up in November to 34 day up to
00:36:52 about 54 day in December 119 in January and by May of 2000 and 21, it went up
00:36:59 to over 500 day. And as I mentioned in my opening statement, we went from 8
00:37:04 800 arrests in 2000 and 20 in Yuma to 114,021 to 312,022. So that is a direct
00:37:14 result of the executive orders that pretty much undermined and undid
00:37:21 everything that we had worked towards over a culmination of several years
00:37:25 around as a law enforcement officer. What change did you have in the orders
00:37:29 you received from from on high when the administration changed?
00:37:34 It wasn't so much of any direct orders to stop doing or doing. It was just
00:37:38 the fact that the floodgates have been open when you are dealing with 1000
00:37:45 arrests a day and you only have a couple 100 border between is working
00:37:48 in a 24 hour cycle. It quickly adds up and it ties our hands. Our agents were
00:37:55 were pretty much uh relegated to process transportation and processing
00:38:00 and and getting people processed and out as quickly as possible. That was
00:38:04 really what's the kind of the direction we were we were heading. Current law
00:38:07 requires asylum claims be detained until their claims resolved. The trump
00:38:12 administration implemented the remaining Mexico policy and a safe third
00:38:16 country's policy that allowed claimants to remain free in those countries while
00:38:21 their claims were being heard. What was the effect of this policy on the number
00:38:25 of illegals claiming asylum that you encountered and was the rescinding of
00:38:30 this policy by biden largely responsible for the influx that you
00:38:34 just described.
00:38:35 Yeah, I have no doubt in my mind that the recension of the micro protection
00:38:40 protocol led to the mass incursions we started seeing. I want to make
00:38:45 something very clear. Uh majority and I would say an overwhelming majority. I
00:38:50 don't recall people in my custody actually seeking asylum. It was through
00:38:54 the removal process while we were processing them. Did they claim fear
00:38:58 which offers them an asylum asylum hearing and they're all trained, right?
00:39:02 They're trained. These are all folks that are not seeking asylum. They are
00:39:07 using it as a defense. But when you end the micro protection protocol, which
00:39:11 basically was closed the loopholes, uh that word got out so quickly that if
00:39:17 you make it, you get to stay and ultimately put us back in a catch and
00:39:19 release mindset. Mr. Karchner, what have you seen in Cochise County with
00:39:23 respect to criminal cartels and affiliated gangs? Are they now
00:39:26 operating here in american communities? And what does that mean for the safety
00:39:30 of our neighborhoods?
00:39:31 Okay.
00:39:34 As far as the uh the criminal cartels uh as as in my statement, the criminal
00:39:42 cartel or the mexican cartels control the border and and they control that
00:39:48 from both sides of the line. Have they now permeated into our country? The
00:39:52 majority of uh of what I've seen through investigations and everything
00:39:57 else, there are, there are players within the phoenix area, within the
00:40:02 Tucson area. That's where the coordination for for these load
00:40:05 drivers comes from is from people that are already in the U. S. Not of a local
00:40:09 law enforcement in my community in California told me of one of the nearby
00:40:14 rural towns that became a place where Ms 13 brought its victims from Los
00:40:19 Angeles to murder and they're absolutely gruesome stories of faces
00:40:23 being carved off of fingers, severed digit by digit. Can we expect this sort
00:40:28 of violence to proliferate here as Ms 13 and other violent gangs established
00:40:33 stronger footholds in our communities? I can speak to what I've seen here in
00:40:38 Cochise County and Cochise County is not where people are staying. The
00:40:41 cartels do operate there, but there were simply a pass through um further
00:40:47 out in the in the country in Ohio, in in California, in in new york. That's
00:40:52 where I believe that you're going to see probably some of that cartel. Border
00:40:56 patrol agents been warning us for years to warn our communities outside of the
00:41:01 of the international boundary. Uh that every community is becoming a border
00:41:07 town. Yes, correct. Thank you. Gentlemen yields back the gentleman from Arizona
00:41:11 who's been working on this issue nonstop. Uh Congressman Diggs is
00:41:16 recognized. Thanks Mr Chairman. Thank you for bringing this hearing here.
00:41:19 Thank you to our witnesses who have given us amazing testimony. Appreciate
00:41:24 you being here. Thank you for the audience for being here. The the uh
00:41:29 police presence and and uh Mayor Murphy thank you and the town of Sarita. And
00:41:35 then I see at the back of the room my old friend from the state Senate frank
00:41:39 Antonori and I would just advise the police you might want to haul that guy
00:41:44 out right now. Just just saying.
00:41:46 So so earlier this week we had a briefing. Some of us did with with the
00:41:53 chief modeling who is the chief sector chief for this sector to the Tucson
00:41:58 sector. And I want to give you some startling figures. So from 2018 to 2020
00:42:05 uh the the the encounters average 60,000 a year in this sector in Tucson sector.
00:42:14 They've been higher than 19 for sure. In 2021 that number was 190,000 190,000
00:42:23 encounters in 2021 in 2022 was 250,000 encounters in 2023 was 373 encounters
00:42:33 and year to date it exceeds 350,000 and there and they anticipate that they
00:42:39 will exceed 700,000 encounters in the Tucson sector by the end of the fiscal
00:42:45 year which is september 30th. And I'm not counting or including um God aways
00:42:51 both known and unknown.
00:42:52 And I'm not figuring into the fact that C. B. P. Has now changed how you count
00:43:00 known and unknown God aways which actually will impact how you you count
00:43:06 them. So I want to reiterate chief. You told us at the time and but and you've
00:43:14 now testified twice but I gotta get this Yuma sector. You were the chief 2020.
00:43:20 What was the total annual count?
00:43:23 It was just over 8800 arrests in 2020. Right. Then it went up to 114,000 to end
00:43:31 the fiscal year 21. And when we look at it, they're averaging somewhere north
00:43:36 of 350 a day in Yuma still that's what I've been told. That's the report.
00:43:41 What does that, what does that do to a community? So let's just take Yuma for
00:43:47 one second to go from 8800 encounters. We know and I've been there, I saw it
00:43:53 when it was just overcrowded and booming. What happens to a community
00:43:57 like Yuma who has one hospital and you have all those people coming in and
00:44:04 you're having to release because you have no place to put them and neither
00:44:06 does any place else on the southwest border.
00:44:09 Yeah. Thank you for that question. I think it's very important for people to
00:44:13 realize that um even if one geographic location is getting hit very hard like
00:44:19 Yuma did, others are suffering as well. Um we take care of each other along the
00:44:23 way. Uh in a place like Yuma majority of the year, there's only about 100,000
00:44:29 residents. Yeah, there's a lot of winter visitors that come down there and add
00:44:33 to uh to the community. But when you arrest over 100,000 people that matches
00:44:39 and exceeds the community, it becomes a problem. There's only one food bank.
00:44:44 There was only one large non government organization that was capable of
00:44:48 handling that and there's only one hospital. And so it took an entire
00:44:54 community to rally around the border patrol and thank goodness they did
00:44:58 because we were already overwhelmed sitting on average of 5 to 6,000 people
00:45:03 a day that we would have to release. The N. G. O. Would take them and help us.
00:45:08 So we weren't releasing to the street because there's no bus station. There's
00:45:11 one airport that people cannot, you know, can fly to phoenix out of, but it
00:45:16 was very difficult. So thank goodness the N. G. O. Stepped up, but so did the
00:45:20 entire community. The hospital, my understanding is there's still 20 to 30
00:45:25 million dollars in unpaid bills from migrants that were showing up directly
00:45:29 because we could not get out there and respond quick enough. There were times
00:45:33 that the E. R. Was filled with illegal aliens. The maternity ward was filled
00:45:37 with illegal aliens. So really, really impacted the community. You had farmers
00:45:42 that had to plow under fields because they they've been contaminated. Now,
00:45:47 Mr Chilton, uh, at the edge of your your branch, um, where the fencing ends,
00:45:55 not too far away, just a couple of miles is a I don't know how to I don't
00:46:00 know how to describe it. An encampment that's being run is highly I've been
00:46:04 there. It's unsanitary, so sanitary. It's it's they're rolling, rolling
00:46:09 people through there. How many people have come around that edge of your
00:46:14 ranch and filtered through there?
00:46:16 According to one border patrol officer, 5640 people have come around the end of
00:46:29 the wall on our ranch and through California Gulch, which is a huge gap.
00:46:35 And they walk to the west, uh, to this migrant camp that you spoke of 5640
00:46:45 people in April alone. And they're moving people out. So you understand
00:46:50 that there's there might be 100 150 there and then border patrol will get
00:46:56 to them and they'll take him out and then it's immediately filled back up
00:47:00 that encampment.
00:47:01 You're correct. So I've talked to border patrol officers and they've
00:47:07 said we used to be a security force and now we're just glorified taxi drivers.
00:47:15 So, um, thanks for that, Mr Chilton. And then, Mr Karsner, um, the high
00:47:23 speed chases and the saber force. I mean, we could talk about what Sheriff
00:47:28 Daniels has done in Cochise County and how he's really tried to, um, secure
00:47:34 that county quite a bit. Tell us a little bit about the impact of the
00:47:39 high speed chases through the town of Sierra Vista.
00:47:42 And then while you're thinking about that, I'll just tell you that I was
00:47:46 down there once and we had the high speed chase. It just ended in a fatal
00:47:51 accident. So please tell us
00:47:53 as I stated in my statement over a dozen deaths have occurred directly
00:48:01 tied to these, uh,
00:48:03 immigration or high speed chases coming through. Um,
00:48:10 the sheriff has done a fabulous job of utilizing what resources we have to try
00:48:18 and address it. We brought in law enforcement partners from different
00:48:23 parts of the state to help out with that. Um, but they continue to happen
00:48:29 as long as the cartels going to continue to
00:48:32 recruit these people. And like I said, anywhere from age 13 is the youngest
00:48:40 we've had took mom's car from Phoenix and drove down to Cochise County to
00:48:45 pick up however many unknowns to, uh, people, kids who can't even don't know
00:48:51 how to drive. And they're told to not stop. Just just go fast and keep going.
00:48:56 11 predict one particular 17 year old driver, um, told us that, yeah, he was.
00:49:03 He was just playing a real life game of Grand Theft Auto. He was. He was playing
00:49:08 a video game with people's lives.
00:49:11 Well, and and our heart goes. Thank you, Mrs Alexander for your testimony.
00:49:17 And I'll just tell you that when you start talking about recruitment, you're
00:49:21 recruiting at, um, look at high schools. There's the recruiting on Snapchat,
00:49:25 Instagram and they're giving you specific load out places. Go to mile
00:49:31 marker X on. Maybe it's the I eight corridor or somewhere ever else. It may
00:49:37 be. And there's where you're gonna meet somebody and you're gonna transport
00:49:41 them and you're gonna make 1000 per head or something like that. And and to
00:49:46 a young person, it's gonna be incredibly enticing to get involved in
00:49:52 that. So my time is way way expired. Thank you, Mr Chairman. Thank you for
00:49:57 all being here today. Gentlemen yields back the gentleman from Oregon. Mr
00:50:01 Pence is recognized.
00:50:02 Thank you, Mr Sharon. Thank thank all of you for being here today. Sharing
00:50:08 your story with us. My family is a ranching family up in Oregon. Granddad
00:50:13 came out of Texas 110 years ago. The ranches of my three of my little
00:50:16 brothers have ranches of similar size to yours, Mr Children. And I cannot
00:50:21 imagine having thousands upon thousands of people traipsing through and across
00:50:26 our permits and in our land. I cannot imagine the damage that would do to
00:50:30 your to your operations, your watering facilities, your fences, your ability
00:50:35 to keep cattle in the proper place. I was looking at the fences that Mr Bigs
00:50:39 called out on your map and I truly cannot imagine. I will tell you that
00:50:44 the Bureau of Land Management and the Forest Service up in Oregon where I'm
00:50:48 from are very, very intent upon making sure that in that we don't go off
00:50:56 trails, that we don't manage, you know, damage the land in any. I assume they
00:51:01 must be down clattering around your ranch to make sure that your property
00:51:04 is protected from all these people traipsing across it. Is that correct?
00:51:07 The BLM is making a huge play. I'm sure to try to keep all these folks from
00:51:13 coming across your land. Is that correct?
00:51:15 The Forest Service, where I have three permits, uh, does a remarkably good job
00:51:26 of trying. However, it's impossible. Uh, the 3050 people I have images of
00:51:36 coming across, uh, do great damage. And the 5640 people at the end of the
00:51:46 ranch going towards that migrant camp just leave tons of trash. Uh,
00:51:53 sometimes our cows eat the trash or plastic and die. I'm being facetious.
00:52:01 The point is that we have these federal agencies that should be focusing
00:52:06 exactly on your problem because it's so broad in scope and it's really sad to
00:52:12 see. I want to say, and first of all, thank you so much for having the
00:52:17 courage to be here today and sharing that almost impossible situation with
00:52:23 us. We are now a wash in fentanyl. We are literally a wash in this stuff.
00:52:28 And so you're the value of what you're doing to try to warn people of this
00:52:35 incredible danger is is is unbelievable. Are you talking to young people and
00:52:41 others? How are you trying to because the odds of us going around and
00:52:45 scooping this up the odds of us finally convincing the biden administration to
00:52:49 do something about the border are remote, but your ability to try to go
00:52:53 in and try to at least at least warn kids. How is that going? I had the
00:52:58 opportunity on September 11th of 2023 to go and speak to my son's school. So
00:53:03 his classmates and peers as well as their parents. Um, that was a unique
00:53:08 opportunity. It was very challenging, but I also made sure to tell kids you
00:53:13 can't take anything. You can't take medicine from your friends. You can't
00:53:17 take anything from anyone that didn't come from your parents or from the
00:53:21 school nurse. Nothing is safe, not because your friends are trying to
00:53:24 poison you, but because who knows where it all has been. I talked to parents
00:53:29 all the time to tell them you can give Narcan to your child. If you find a
00:53:34 child unresponsive, you can give Narcan. It's not going to hurt them if
00:53:37 they haven't had opioids. You can give it every two minutes until E. M. S.
00:53:41 arrives. If that had been done for my son, he would be alive. There were
00:53:44 signs that he was having respiratory distress, which is the biggest factor
00:53:48 in fentanyl poisoning. Respiratory distress. It was seen in him, but his
00:53:53 his dad didn't know what to do. I want that message to get out to parents so
00:53:58 that when our kids make these stupid choices, like at 13, they're gonna go
00:54:02 and traffic people. Our kids are going to make mistakes. We need to be parents
00:54:06 that they can come to when they have made that bad decision and they can be
00:54:11 safe with us so that we can save them from themselves. Have you found others
00:54:16 that are helping you in this effort? Absolutely. I've coordinated with other,
00:54:20 uh, mostly family driven organizations that are trying to get message out
00:54:25 about fentanyl and about all of the impacts that these air having on our
00:54:30 Children. I would look for more opportunities to do that. I would do
00:54:34 anything I could to save one family from experiencing what we have. Well,
00:54:39 we really, really appreciate your being here and thank you. Thank you for your
00:54:43 efforts with that, Mr Chair. Yield back. Gentlemen, it's back. Thank you. Um,
00:54:47 the gentleman from Wisconsin, Mr Fitzgerald's recognized for five
00:54:50 minutes. Thank you, Chairman. Um, thanks for bringing the committee to
00:54:56 Arizona and thanks to Congressman Cisco money for hosting us. Appreciate it.
00:55:02 Um, I wanted to, uh, I want to thank Mrs Alexander for coming in and telling
00:55:09 her story. It's obviously heart wrenching.
00:55:13 And unfortunately, like Congressman Ben said,
00:55:18 um, we all have stories now from our congressional districts of families
00:55:25 that have suffered, uh, the same tragedy that that you've gone through,
00:55:31 which which means, you know, even though we're here today taking testimony in
00:55:36 Arizona, this is something that has affected everyone throughout the entire
00:55:42 country at this point. Um, so along with that, uh, Congressman Biggs and I were
00:55:48 able to make a quick trip down to the border and meet with the border patrol
00:55:52 this morning. And one of the most alarming things I think was the
00:55:57 confirmation that we got from them that they've had contacts now with Chinese
00:56:04 nationals.
00:56:05 Um, maybe not in the same numbers that you see in some of the other sectors,
00:56:10 but but in fact, it's it's really happening.
00:56:13 Um, and and, you know, any of us that have any contact with the Foreign
00:56:19 Affairs Committee or if you have been on some of these visits internationally,
00:56:26 this is a threat that's way beyond what any of us could have imagined even a
00:56:32 year ago. Um, but I want to go back to Mr Clem if I could. One of the things
00:56:37 I've worked on, and I think because this has an effect kind of again
00:56:41 nationally is in a priority has been, uh, that we still don't, we still
00:56:48 haven't permanently designated fentanyl as a schedule one substance, which is
00:56:54 just amazing to me.
00:56:56 And, you know, it's not because we haven't tried. We've authored build.
00:57:00 I've off authored bills to try and and underscore the seriousness of this. And
00:57:07 unfortunately, we still have an administration right now that is more
00:57:10 worried about legalizing marijuana than scheduling than making fentanyl
00:57:16 schedule one. Can you talk a little bit about, uh, do you think that would have
00:57:21 an effect on law enforcement and how they approach the issues and the
00:57:26 problems that we have related to fentanyl and how it's coming across the
00:57:30 border right now?
00:57:30 I think any time you take a serious approach on something that is causing
00:57:38 such devastation like fentanyl poisoning across this country and you
00:57:42 prioritize it and you make it something like a schedule one, that's going to
00:57:46 give a boost to the morale to law enforcement because they know that
00:57:52 that's going to lead to a successful prosecution and is an opportunity to
00:57:57 at least mitigate the threat that it poses. Um, I think they got the
00:58:01 priorities mixed up, uh, as far as working on legalizing one while
00:58:06 they're not criminalizing one at the highest level. I think that we need to
00:58:10 make that a schedule one and we need to hold source countries and pass through
00:58:13 countries accountable for that because look, unfortunately, if I use this as an
00:58:19 example, but if a if a plane crashed every day and 300 people died, they
00:58:24 would make a big deal about that. That's the number of people that are dying
00:58:27 every day. According to statistics to fentanyl poisoning, we need to
00:58:30 prioritize that we need to shut it down where it's coming from. We need to help
00:58:33 the border patrol agents and the officers at the ports to help shut it
00:58:36 down. So one other thing I just like you to comment on if you could because
00:58:40 this is really happening right now. Some of my democrat colleagues are
00:58:44 suggesting that the majority of fentanyl is coming through the U. S.
00:58:48 In the ports of entry. Can you can you count? I mean, to me it makes no sense.
00:58:55 And I think to most people, but it's something it's a narrative that's being
00:58:58 driven right now in D. C.
00:59:00 Well, there are there's some there's some truth to that statement because I
00:59:04 can tell you that I believe it was in 2022, at least in the state of Arizona.
00:59:08 Um, about 52% of the fentanyl seized was at the ports of entry. What meant
00:59:14 the 48% was outside the port, but that's what's being seized. We don't
00:59:18 know where the majority of it is coming through because, as we mentioned, uh,
00:59:22 and has been talked about already the number of people that are coming in and
00:59:26 in getting away. We don't know who they are and what they may be bringing in.
00:59:30 So there is some truth to the fact that a lot is being seized at the ports of
00:59:36 entry, but it's almost hard to determine where it's how much is coming
00:59:41 through where because we don't know a lot of the unknown factors. But we do
00:59:46 know that fentanyl is one of the things that is hitting every community United
00:59:51 States. The migrants are passing through the border states, but the fentanyl is
00:59:56 going everywhere to include border communities. Thank you. And if I could
01:00:00 just Mr Karchner, I just wanted because your years serving as a deputy
01:00:07 sheriff's deputy, you understand and you know the communities in and around
01:00:11 the county and, um, what I've been experiencing in my district are some of
01:00:19 the municipalities have been just overwhelmed with this sudden influx of
01:00:27 illegals into their community. I have a city, the city of Whitewater in
01:00:32 Wisconsin who had 200 non English speaking students show up on the first
01:00:40 day for school. And, uh, you know, I've talked to the school board president
01:00:45 there and they're like, we're unequipped. We're ill equipped to handle
01:00:48 this. And then if you talk to the chief of police and to law enforcement there,
01:00:54 you know what becomes a fender bender in the parking lot is a much bigger
01:00:59 issue when you've got one person that's that does not speak any English and,
01:01:04 uh, the, uh, the amount of resources are being depleted at a much more rapid
01:01:12 pace as a result of of the level of immigration that's happening in our
01:01:16 communities. Can you just comment on that? And is that something you saw in
01:01:20 in the communities that you work in and around?
01:01:23 Yeah,
01:01:23 uh, I think I've stated it before. We Cochise County, southern Arizona. We
01:01:31 take the brunt of it kind of liken it to the front door. Um, when you walk
01:01:37 into the house, you don't stand in the front door. You walk through the front
01:01:40 door, the floor gets dirty. We end up with some of those problems. But the
01:01:45 destination is not here. The destination is is where you're at. Um,
01:01:50 where we're throughout the country. We would do tours for for sheriffs that
01:01:57 wanted to learn where, okay, this is where the fentanyls come from. This is
01:02:01 where where the drugs are coming from. This is where the illegal immigration
01:02:05 starts. So they would come down and the sheriff, our sheriff there in Cochise
01:02:10 County has a program called borders to backyards. And so the sheriffs would
01:02:15 come down and they would they would see what's going on. And I had a sheriff
01:02:18 actually from Ohio that that rode with me and and we were dealing with these
01:02:24 vehicle loads and we pulled one over. There was 11 people stacked up in the
01:02:28 bed of a pickup, you know, and and he actually was able to see it. He went
01:02:33 back to Ohio. Two days later, he sends me a picture and had something very
01:02:38 similar on the Ohio turnpike. So it takes that realization of where it's
01:02:44 coming from. We're so callous to it. We're so used to seeing this that it
01:02:51 makes a bigger impact when when you realize, you know where it's going.
01:02:56 My time's up, Mr Chairman. But thank you all for being here today. Thank you.
01:03:02 Gentlemen, it's back. Chair now recognize the gentleman from Arizona,
01:03:05 Mr Crain, another one of our new great members from from this state. Thank you,
01:03:09 Mr Chairman, for allowing me to wave onto this committee. Thank you to my
01:03:12 colleague, Mr Siskimani for hosting this in his district. Thank you,
01:03:16 Mayor, for allowing us to have this here. Thank you, everybody in attendance
01:03:20 and thank you to the panel for showing up today. I'm gonna read you guys a
01:03:24 quote. I want to see if you guys know where this comes from. We're a nation
01:03:28 who says if you want to flee and you're fleeing oppression, you should come.
01:03:31 Anybody know who said that?
01:03:33 Yep. Bingo. And those who come seeking asylum, we should immediately have the
01:03:40 capacity to absorb them, keep them safe until they can be heard. Anybody know
01:03:43 who said that?
01:03:44 Yeah. Candidate Biden. One of first quote was 9 12 19. Second quote was 6
01:03:51 27 19. Anybody that has a brain in their head, ears, eyes knew exactly what
01:03:58 was gonna happen as soon as this individual became the president of the
01:04:01 United States. They they were gonna throw that border wide open. Why? A lot
01:04:07 of us are asking why? And I think we're going to get into that today. I think I
01:04:12 think because they don't give a damn about you guys. That's what I think.
01:04:16 And I've I've been in enough of these hearings. I'm on the Homeland Security
01:04:19 Committee. I'm not going to mince words anymore. I've talked to enough families
01:04:24 that have lost their loved ones to fentanyl. Ms 13 gang members,
01:04:29 individuals on the terror watch list. We've talked to, you know, hospital
01:04:35 administrators talking to us about how overrun their their facilities are.
01:04:39 I've seen enough of the data, enough of the evidence. Do you guys think that
01:04:42 President Biden and Secretary Mayorkas don't know what's going on? Do you think
01:04:47 they haven't heard enough information yet?
01:04:48 I'm just I'm I said I'm not going to mince words. I think it's treasonous. I
01:04:53 absolutely do. All right. I just looked up. Yeah.
01:04:57 And I know that some people say, Oh, that doesn't reach the legal definition
01:05:04 of treasonous and treasonous involving or guilty of the crime of betraying
01:05:09 one's country. You guys feel betrayed? I know I do. I know I do. And I know a
01:05:15 lot of you guys do too. I'm gonna read you guys something from the
01:05:20 Constitution of the United States. This is Article four, Section four. You know,
01:05:25 the United States shall guarantee to every state in this union, a republic
01:05:28 form of government and shall protect each of them against invasion. Do you
01:05:32 guys think that President Biden and Secretary Mayorkas swore an oath to
01:05:36 protect and defend the Constitution of the United States? Yep, they did. Are
01:05:41 they doing that for you guys? How about what do you think, Mr Klim? Are they
01:05:46 doing that?
01:05:46 I don't think they're doing it to the best of their ability. That's for sure.
01:05:51 Best of their ability.
01:05:52 Mr Klim. Why do you think they developed an app to make it easier to get people
01:05:59 into this country?
01:06:01 All the things that this administration has done in regards to the border are
01:06:07 like giving somebody a bucket to bail water out of your sinking boat as
01:06:12 opposed to fixing the leak. And that's what that app does is to facilitate
01:06:18 people in and in their minds, get them out of border patrols custody quicker.
01:06:24 It has nothing to do with securing the border. The border is a national
01:06:28 security threat if we don't get it secured. So yes, it's about
01:06:32 facilitating people into this country, not forcing people to do things the
01:06:37 right way. All right. You guys all have smartphones, right?
01:06:40 Why do you guys have apps on your phone, navigation apps, music apps to make it
01:06:45 easier for you guys to do certain functions, right? That's why they
01:06:48 created an app guys to make it easier for them to flood this country with
01:06:53 illegals. And we could we could sit here and we could talk about the
01:06:56 different reasons why they're doing it. But the bottom line is this is a
01:07:02 complete dereliction of duty and they are betraying you, the american people.
01:07:07 They don't, they don't care. They don't care.
01:07:10 Mr. Karchner,
01:07:13 what do you think, sir? You think, uh, do you think this administration is
01:07:18 stupid? Do you think they don't know what's going on?
01:07:20 You think they're, you think they're so foolish that they don't know the
01:07:25 havoc they're wreaking on the american people?
01:07:27 I would dare say that it's uh, it's no longer in that mess that's going on.
01:07:35 I believe there is some
01:07:36 truth to the corruption. It's tough to ascribe anything else isn't there after
01:07:41 this point? I mean, guys, I had a hearing this week in Homeland Security
01:07:47 and this, this hasn't even become very mainstream yet. But it was about um,
01:07:53 different foreign adversaries using direct weapons, direct energy weapons
01:07:58 against us citizens
01:08:00 that completely incapacitate citizens of the United States. You guys might have
01:08:07 heard of it called Savannah, Havana syndrome. And then we went down to the
01:08:11 skiff and we got a classified briefing from some of the people on the, on the
01:08:15 panel and it was one of the most, I'm a former Navy seal. So I traveled around
01:08:20 the world and hunted bad guys for a long time. But I can tell you this, when I
01:08:23 went down to that skiff, it was one of the most terrifying briefs that I've
01:08:28 ever been a part of. Okay, this is how brazen our enemies are becoming because
01:08:33 of how foolish, corrupt, incompetent and I would actually say wicked we have
01:08:38 become and our leadership has failed us at every turn. So um,
01:08:44 this next election is going to be important. Thank you guys for coming.
01:08:48 Mr Chairman, thank you for allowing me to speak. Thank you. Um, we appreciate
01:08:54 that. Um, I've been told we have another mom here who's um, another family.
01:08:59 Miss Miss Dunn is missed on here. I wonder. Yeah, I know. I know you know
01:09:03 that your members from Arizona, but we want to recognize you and your family.
01:09:07 But you've had to go through. It's obviously what uh, Miss Miss Megan
01:09:11 Alexander's had to go through to. So thank you for being with us and for your
01:09:14 work with that. I want to go to our host for his his time for questioning.
01:09:18 The gentleman from Arizona is recognized for five minutes. Thank you,
01:09:22 Mr Chairman. And again, thanks everyone for being here. I've connected with the
01:09:27 Duns right before this and again, offer your deepest condolences for what
01:09:32 you've been through. And also thank you for your bravery. Mrs Alexander, I
01:09:38 obviously had read your testimony and had read the story, but nothing like
01:09:44 hearing it from from you directly and from your heart. And I don't think
01:09:49 there was a dry eye in this place when you shared the pain and the grief that
01:09:53 your family has gone through. Certainly not in this panelist. I looked around.
01:09:57 I think we're all touched and reminded
01:09:59 why we're here. And as a father myself as a dad of six,
01:10:09 I I can tell you that doesn't matter how old your kids are, what they do,
01:10:15 they'll always be our babies.
01:10:17 The pain that you and your family have gone through for the failures of this
01:10:29 administration is
01:10:30 beyond what words can describe, especially on the eve of Mother's Day.
01:10:35 I can't thank you enough for your bravery, your advocacy of being here.
01:10:39 Thank you. Thank you.
01:10:41 Can't imagine the pain you felt when those calls were received. We can look
01:10:47 back and look at so many things that
01:10:49 everything could be different and we should be doing different. So I want to
01:10:53 just ask you a broad question here. What what in your mind we need to be doing
01:10:59 to avoid more families going through the pain that you and the Duns have
01:11:05 gone through and at least 300 other families in this county alone and way
01:11:09 more thousands around the country. Well, I think first of all, we need to
01:11:13 close off opportunities for people to be bringing
01:11:17 whatever they want over our borders. Second of all, I mean, 50% of all of
01:11:23 the fentanyl for the U. S. Comes through Arizona, which is shocking. That
01:11:28 means our streets are flooded with fentanyl.
01:11:33 Kids in junior high in elementary school are buying this like candy. So
01:11:39 first of all, we need to close our border. We need to make it more
01:11:42 difficult. We also need to stiffen the penalties for people that are producing,
01:11:47 manufacturing, selling all of this. It's crazy to me when you consider the
01:11:53 fact that 70% of the pills have a lethal dose of fennel in them of all
01:11:58 this pill seized. Every single one of those pills is a death sentence. But we
01:12:04 aren't charging
01:12:05 that. That's not what we charge people with. When they're seized with all of
01:12:10 these drugs, we charge them with possession. We charge them with
01:12:14 production or manufacturer. We charge them with intent to sell. We don't
01:12:18 charge them with murder, but that's what this is.
01:12:21 Thank you for that. I think that message is loud and clear. When you
01:12:25 look at simple economics of supply and demand, you can see there the price
01:12:30 and the cost of making these terrible pills on that front here. Mr Clem, you
01:12:35 know, one thing that we touched on is the gotaways, right? These are the
01:12:39 people that cameras detected, but they were never encountered or or at any
01:12:43 point with our local law enforcement or federal law enforcement. So as you look
01:12:49 at those images walking through, they don't look like people that are, um,
01:12:52 just here for the reasons that a lot of immigrants are here for. We always
01:12:56 mentioned that there were a country of immigrants. I believe that I'm an
01:12:59 immigrant myself. We you all know that became a citizen in 2006 and a member
01:13:04 of Congress in 2022. No other country in the world would allow you to do that.
01:13:07 I believe in the American dream, but that abuse that we're seeing in that
01:13:11 screen is not a reflection of that. It is not the way that that we need to do
01:13:15 this. So when you look at these gotaways, what? How do you account for
01:13:18 gotaways? How did you do it when you were in your position among different
01:13:23 posts? And how is that compared to today? Can we are the numbers actually
01:13:28 higher than they seem? And how do you calculate that? Because a lot of this
01:13:31 that is coming in besides the ports of entry is coming in through these got
01:13:35 away individuals.
01:13:36 Thank you. So I got away is some some body that has been detected either
01:13:43 through. We see it with our own eyes. We've tracked it with our, you know,
01:13:47 through sign cutting and tracking operations, or we've caught him on
01:13:51 video camera, but we never made the arrest. There was no law enforcement
01:13:55 resolution. So those are reported every 24 hours into into a get for a
01:14:00 database on. Those numbers are officially recorded. The other part
01:14:05 that is always concerning is is the unknown unknowns. And where I'm going
01:14:11 with that is there has got to be a level of percentage of people that we'd
01:14:16 never even get to understand if they crossed or we saw him on camera and
01:14:21 because we didn't get out to the border. So if we're reporting 1.8 million, we
01:14:25 know that there is a percentage of people that we are just completely
01:14:29 unaware of. And so far this year, there's been almost 170 different
01:14:34 countries apprehended. Um, in this administration, why somebody would
01:14:40 evade arrest by border patrol knowing that they're going to be caught and
01:14:43 released should scare the heck out of everybody because the people that are
01:14:48 evading border patrol are someone or something that is going to do us harm.
01:14:55 In fact, I know that the numbers of criminals that have been encountered
01:15:00 over the last few years on this administration have doubled, if not
01:15:05 quadrupled some of the numbers in the previous administration. So we don't
01:15:08 have a clue of who these people are other than just using statistics to
01:15:13 say they're probably not people we want in this country. So is the data
01:15:17 reflective where this is the worst that we've ever seen? It's worse than the
01:15:22 data shows being the worst that we've ever seen.
01:15:24 I think it's a fair assessment. There is a pocket of just we have no idea.
01:15:30 Thank you, sir. And Mr Chair, I want to be respectful of the time. I Mr
01:15:35 Chilton and Mr Cargener, I see them on a regular basis. I want to thank you
01:15:39 both for being here and for for your perspective as well. I think Arizona is
01:15:43 a state where you can see how many people that have moved here just
01:15:46 recently and also have people that are been here for five generations and
01:15:50 everyone is unanimous on the opinion and the fact that this is the worst that
01:15:55 we've ever seen. So I will take the opportunity to speak with you all. So
01:15:59 offline in order to respect the time, Mr Chair, I want to thank you once
01:16:02 again, you and the committee members for coming in. And I want to tell the
01:16:05 everyone here today that every member here, um, gave up of their time to be
01:16:10 here, having the opportunity of being when their constituents in their
01:16:13 states, but they care about this issue. We've been leading this fight from
01:16:17 Arizona. We're going to continue to do that. But as you can see here, we're
01:16:20 not alone in this fight. We have a lot of fight in us and a lot of fighting
01:16:24 still to do to protect our border. We will continue to do our job in doing
01:16:27 that. So I want to thank all of you for your involvement, your passion, you
01:16:30 giving up your time and being here as well. We're going to continue to work
01:16:33 on this. And you can see here the dedication of my colleagues. When I go
01:16:36 back to Washington, this is who we're working with to make sure that our
01:16:39 border is secure in spite of this administration not doing what they need
01:16:43 to do to make sure that that happens. So thank you all. Thank you, sir.
01:16:46 Great to see the good members appreciated here in his district like
01:16:54 we knew he was. Um, thank you for your leadership. I just want to go to the
01:16:58 question that Mr Crane raised, which is the sort of the fundamental question.
01:17:01 Why do you think they're doing it? What? We know it's intentional because in
01:17:05 day one they decided no more building the wall, no more remain in Mexico. And
01:17:09 when you get here, you will not be detained. You will be released and they
01:17:11 announced it to the world. And so literally three years and four months,
01:17:15 we went from a secure border to no border. But it still begs the
01:17:17 fundamental question. Why? Why are they doing? I want to know from folks on our
01:17:22 witnesses. We hear from the audience, too. But I want to know the people who
01:17:25 are testifying here today. What do you think the ultimate motivation is that
01:17:29 Mr Crane was getting to just a few minutes ago? What do you think? I have
01:17:31 an idea what I think it is, but I want to what you guys think here on the
01:17:33 front line. Let's start with this. Start with the Let's start with the
01:17:37 gentleman with a few more years of wisdom than the rest of us. Start with
01:17:40 the rancher. If we can. You've been here, said your ranch has been in your
01:17:43 family like 6000 years or something. I think you said so, Mr Children, you go
01:17:48 first. Tell me what you think. What do you Why do you think Joe Biden
01:17:51 intentionally, deliberately premeditated fashion on January 20th 2021
01:17:55 changed the policies that were working and create the mess that we have heard
01:18:00 about for years now, but certainly heard about from you in such a compelling
01:18:05 way. Miss Fagan Alexander, all of you, Mr Chilton, tell me what you think the
01:18:08 motivation is. Mr Chairman, it's purposeful and the purpose is to change
01:18:18 the demographics of this country. It's politically
01:18:24 thought by, uh, the administration, Mr Biden, that, uh, these people will vote
01:18:33 for Democrats in the future once they become citizens and eligible to vote.
01:18:38 It's strictly a political ploy.
01:18:41 Mr Clinton,
01:18:43 you know, initially, my thoughts were strictly political spite because it
01:18:50 took, um, it took all the executive actions. You know, he was done on,
01:18:55 started on day one in the 1st 30 days. I think there was 94 executive actions
01:18:59 that directly impacted the border. Um, so just to undo everything from the
01:19:03 previous administration. But over time, as you start looking at all this and
01:19:07 you kind of piece it together, your brain wants to reason and try to find
01:19:11 some facts and truth. The only thing I can come up with is just, um, and this
01:19:14 is sitting as a citizen here testifying is that, uh, the more people they can
01:19:19 bring in, regardless of citizenry, they can, they can do census, they can do
01:19:22 population votes and gain more, more seats, maybe in their favor and or
01:19:27 electoral college votes down the road to, as Mr Chilton mentioned to swing
01:19:32 power in there and there on their behalf for the future. I think there's
01:19:36 no other reasoning because they're not being transparent other than other than
01:19:40 us having to make this up. Politics is more important than what happens to
01:19:44 kids like absolutely. They're about securing the narrative, not securing
01:19:48 the border. Yeah, that's kind of what I think too. And it's sad because you
01:19:52 don't want to, you don't want to think that about the commander in chief of
01:19:54 the greatest country in history. You don't want to think that about your
01:19:56 government, your people who are elected to to high office. You just don't, you
01:19:59 just don't want to think that. But it's tough to come up with any other
01:20:03 conclusion because again, we're all for, you got to, you got a member of
01:20:07 Congress who came here as a legal immigrant, did it the right way, doing
01:20:10 an outstanding job. We're all for that. But what we're not for is the chaos,
01:20:13 the chaos that creates situations where too young, too young lives are gone.
01:20:18 The Dunn family, another young, that's what we don't want. Mr Carter, I'll
01:20:22 give you a chance to respond. Mr Chairman, I don't know if I have a
01:20:26 an answer for you other than to fundamentally change, um,
01:20:31 our our country, but but I'll carry it on one step further. Uh, if they're,
01:20:39 if they're looking for votes, if they're looking for that kind of stuff,
01:20:42 why? And and throughout my career, I would say somewhere in the 90
01:20:48 percentile of the people that we encountered were military age males.
01:20:53 Yep. No, that's that's the scary element are the chairman of the
01:21:00 subcommittee of immigration has warned the committee now talk to this talks to
01:21:04 the entire Congress about these people coming across. Some of them we know
01:21:08 we're on the terrorist watch list, but there's a whole bunch we don't. I think
01:21:11 someone said, I think Mr Clemmie said earlier, you can walk right to a
01:21:13 border patrol agent, you're going to get in, you're going to get released.
01:21:15 We know what's happening. So if you're trying to evade that, you aren't up to
01:21:18 anything any good. And that's the scary thing too. And again, it seems to be all
01:21:25 done in a deliberate way by this administration, which is scary. Miss
01:21:28 Peggy Alexander, you're going to get the last word here the last 30 seconds,
01:21:31 which is probably appropriate. So you go right ahead. I think that these
01:21:35 gentlemen are all right. I think there is political power and political gain,
01:21:39 but I think it is also genuinely
01:21:41 a dislike for who we are as America. I don't think that he likes who we
01:21:47 are. I don't think he wants us to continue having freedoms that we do.
01:21:52 I think by allowing whoever and whatever to come over the border, it changes,
01:21:57 it shifts. And I don't think he's opposed to that. And that's very sad
01:22:02 because I love America. Yeah, well, we want to thank the four of you for
01:22:07 taking time out of your busy lives and coming here and giving compelling
01:22:10 testimony. One. Thank all of you in attendance. Mayor, thank you and our
01:22:13 law enforcement for being such gracious hosts. I wish I could stay a little
01:22:17 longer. Of course, we want to thank your congressman, who, as I've said now a
01:22:20 couple of times, is doing a great job. All your team from Arizona is doing a
01:22:23 great job.
01:22:24 Plus, I
01:22:27 I tell your congressman all the time his last name is just one of those names
01:22:32 Cisco money. Just one of the names you like to say, right? It's one of those
01:22:35 those great names. But we thank you all. And we're going to keep fighting,
01:22:39 trying to
01:22:39 we have one's bill that we pass a bill that that that our committee worked on
01:22:45 a house House bill to that went through Tom subcommittee and so much work that
01:22:50 would actually help. But the main problem is, as Mr McClintock started us
01:22:54 off with saying, we just need an administration actually enforces the
01:22:57 current law. So we're going to continue to stress that God bless you all. The
01:23:00 committee is adjourned.
01:23:01 [APPLAUSE]
01:23:04 [APPLAUSE]

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