- 2 days ago
On Thursday's edition of Felger and Mazz, the guys dove further into Roman Anthony's contract extension with the Red Sox. While discussing the deal itself, Mazz explained why any MLB team would have signed Anthony to the deal, and also discussed why it's such a good deal for the team.
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00:00Mass, what were your thoughts on that Roman Anthony contract?
00:01Stunned. I was stunned, if not for no other reason than the fact that early in the year,
00:08there was indication that he wasn't going to sign a deal to stay with the Red Sox.
00:13And when I say indication, I mean that he wasn't interested in this kind of deal.
00:17He wanted market value and that he was going to play it more like Mookie Betts played it.
00:23And so I thought there was borderline no chance of getting this sort of contract.
00:27And then all of a sudden, pop, here it is.
00:30And that doesn't even get to the dollar figure, which, again, I said the same thing about Christian Campbell.
00:37So I'm, you know, beyond trying to be consistent, I'll tell you that this is what I believe.
00:43If Roman Anthony were a Scott Boris client, there was no way in a thousand lifetimes that Scott Boris would allow this deal.
00:52Like mentioned this type of thing yesterday.
00:54Absolutely.
00:54Not in a million years.
00:57No chance he would allow it.
00:59And just to give you some idea, if Roman Anthony is the kind of hitter everyone thinks he is and looks to be, let me just not say thinks, he looks to be,
01:09he would have been a free agent basically at the age of 26.
01:13Juan Soto just made $765 million.
01:16Okay, now, I don't know if he's going to be Juan Soto.
01:19Maybe he's not Juan Soto.
01:21But as Bowdoin is talking about Vladimir Guerrero, let's say the deal's $550.
01:29Because it's only going to go up.
01:31Oh, he gave up tens, if not hundreds of millions of dollars.
01:35So do you give credit to the organization if they maybe used one of two things to their advantage?
01:39One, which I mentioned yesterday, a case in point that is just in that dugout, like Tristan Cassis, who has decided, you know what, I'm going to bet on myself.
01:46I'm not going to take your suck deal.
01:48He's injured and might never be the same player again.
01:50They can use him as example A.
01:51And then the oncoming labor strife, which could happen in, what, December 26th, right?
01:56So about a year away from that.
01:57If you're one of those teams, and I wouldn't blame him for doing that, if Breslow and the Red Sox said, like, oh, well, what are you going to do?
02:03Might as well try to take this now.
02:04Like, I think that's what actually came to play here, one of those two things, maybe both.
02:08Yeah, so look, there's a reason why you attack them early.
02:11It's because they don't have the perspective yet.
02:13They hear 100.
02:14Weak-willed.
02:14Right.
02:15And then you hear 130 million.
02:16You say, who wouldn't do that?
02:18So, like, you jump at the chance, but that's where the agent has to intervene.
02:22So, make no mistake, they got to the player.
02:26They definitely did.
02:27You want to know one of the reasons this got done, and they deserve credit for it.
02:32They absolutely deserve credit for it.
02:33But it shows you it's a bad deal, or they got away with one, or they're just lucky.
02:38That, in this process, I really hear at the last, when they just, I guess they re-engaged just over the weekend.
02:45They reached out to him directly.
02:46John Henry did.
02:48John Henry talked to him, well, before.
02:51No, that was in the story.
02:52Why don't you tell me?
02:53That was in the Alex Spears story.
02:54Why don't you tell me what you know?
02:55I don't know anything.
02:56I haven't talked to him since I saw him at Fenway.
02:58Okay.
02:59Was that before or after he had the conversation with Roman Anthony on the field?
03:03I'm presuming before, because I saw him on Friday night.
03:06Okay.
03:07If I knew that, A, would I have been surprised, and B, don't you think I'd have been surprised?
03:10It's hard to know with you.
03:11It turns out you're hiding a lot of secrets.
03:13That's not true.
03:14Keep this close.
03:15No.
03:15Do you tell me everything that you know?
03:17Pretty much.
03:17No, you don't.
03:18Pretty much do.
03:19No, you don't.
03:20And it's not you.
03:20It's the audience.
03:21I don't have any knowing smirks.
03:24You have all these knowing smirks.
03:27No, my smirks aren't knowing.
03:28They're just smirks.
03:29Okay.
03:30I'm just kidding.
03:30So, anyway.
03:32But, yes, according to the Alex Spears story, John Henry emailed him directly, copied the agent on it.
03:37I found that piece of information to be peculiar.
03:41And I say peculiar, if not interesting, call it whatever you want.
03:44But I think teams and the Red Sox clearly feared it wouldn't get to Anthony if they didn't copy him on the email so they made sure he got it.
03:53No, but, like, this is negotiating 101, folks.
03:58The agent is always the problem.
04:00And you know this from the beat guys who are in the bag for the teams when in the middle of a contract negotiation or if a dragged out contract dispute, all of a sudden you start hearing some negative commentary about the agent.
04:13That's the team sicking the local reporters on the agent because they're blaming the agent.
04:19Okay?
04:20But that's just a PR game.
04:23The agents are the problem.
04:25So, if you can get to the player directly, that's what you want to do.
04:31Alex Spear in the Globe wrote that it caught Rodgers off guard.
04:37Rodgers is one of Anthony's agents.
04:39It caught Rodgers off guard when Breslow informed the agent that he'd just sent a new contract proposal to Rodgers and Anthony.
04:48Had Breslow sent it only to Rodgers, the agent, the agent might have stiff-armed the request.
04:54So, the story I saw said John Henry.
04:57But Anthony, who'd been alerted Sunday morning by Sox principal owner and Globe owner and Maz bestie, John Henry,
05:05that the team was preparing to make him another offer.
05:09Had opened the email and greeted it with immediate enthusiasm, which he relayed to Rodgers.
05:14Okay, so that's what happened.
05:15So, Henry got to him on the field, got to him pre-game, got to him at Fenway, and said,
05:21Listen, we're making another run at it.
05:24We're sending you a proposal.
05:26We want, you know, so Henry got to him.
05:28Yes.
05:28Then when they sent the proposal, they sent it to both Anthony and the agent.
05:32Yep.
05:32Anthony was probably waiting for it.
05:34Yep.
05:34Henry, he was smart on this, probably said to Anthony, watch your email tomorrow morning.
05:39You'll be getting something.
05:40Yes.
05:40So, by the time Rodgers, the agent, opened it, Anthony had already opened it.
05:45Correct.
05:45And went, ooh, $130 million.
05:48Yeah.
05:48Hey, did you see this?
05:49It's a big jump.
05:50Even more, naively, may have said $230 million.
05:55Right.
05:55Which, again, Pete Abe, and this is getting reported across the board, that the value of the deal after escalators could equal $230 million.
06:05Do you know, people, that to get to $230 million, Roman Anthony is going to have to win the AL MVP award eight consecutive years?
06:17That's how he gets to $230 million.
06:18Well, you don't think that's realistic?
06:20By winning the MVP, not just winning the MVP, winning it eight consecutive years.
06:28Wayne Gretzky didn't win the MVP award eight years in a row.
06:31So, if anyone is reporting up to $230 million with a straight face, they haven't even looked at that detail, or they're just trying to pump up the team.
06:39Correct.
06:40It's not, it's nowhere close to that.
06:42No, I'll tell you what, the only thing.
06:43But anyway, just to close the loop on this, they shrewdly got to the player first.
06:48The player is usually more, you know, eager.
06:54They see the dollar figures.
06:55They're not as detail-oriented.
06:57They don't read the fine print.
06:58And they got to the player.
07:00And the agent ultimately works at the behest of the player.
07:05If this player's agent happened to be Scott Boris, Scott Boris would have fired the client.
07:09This has happened, where agents have fired the player.
07:11So, I can't represent you.
07:13I can't have you on my resume.
07:14Or, if it were a Scott Boris client, Scott Boris would make it clear to the team that if you try and contact my client independently, I will file a grievance.
07:22This is against the CBA, or blah, blah, blah.
07:24Bingo.
07:25You wouldn't even be allowed to do it.
07:27No, he'd bitch about it.
07:28Okay, so.
07:29He'd kick up a storm about it.
07:31Red Sox were smart.
07:32Yeah, they were.
07:33And they're lucky that they had an inexperienced kid, or inexperienced agent, or the player just bought the cheese.
07:41They're fortunate in this situation.
07:42Yeah, so look, at the end of the day, when a deal like this gets accepted, it's really a commentary on the player more than the team.
07:48Every team would do this deal.
07:50And I'm not criticizing the Red Sox for good for them.
07:52This helps.
07:53I hope.
07:54And when I say I hope, not that he can play, that they will use the money elsewhere that they're going to save on this deal.
07:59That's what my hope is, because they got this kid for a song, even if they pick up the option, which is for a ninth year.
08:06It's nine years and 160.
08:08It's a freaking steal.
08:10I am sorry.
08:11I heard McCarthy follow us, you know, that you have to be positive about this deal.
08:15This is a good deal for the Red Sox.
08:17And it is.
08:18Everyone said it.
08:19Everyone acknowledges it.
08:20It's a good deal for the Red Sox.
08:21It's a great deal.
08:22Of course it is.
08:22Yes, it absolutely is.
08:24It's a win for the Red Sox.
08:25And how they got it done was kind of cutthroat.
08:28And they got away with it.
08:30And, you know, good for them.
08:32No one's saying that.
08:33I just don't know how you can't be cynical about the Red Sox on everything money.
08:38Like, shouldn't that be your default?
08:40Yes.
08:41And so that cynicism is born out of...
08:44I'm going to say that just about every owner.
08:47Yes.
08:47I mean, fair enough.
08:49There are some teams that are big spending...
08:51Dodgers, Mets.
08:52Yeah, right.
08:53You know, there are some teams where I would say, look, this is on the face.
08:56They just want to win.
08:57They'll spend anything it takes to win.
08:58A select few teams.
09:01So, fair enough.
09:02The Red Sox are hardly the only team.
09:05I hope John Henry heard that.
09:08I'll let you know.
09:10Mets.
09:11But still.
09:13Still.
09:14It's like...
09:15So the cynicism is, this is a mid-market move.
09:19You know, the Yankees.
09:20The Yankees went year to year with Aaron Judge.
09:23I'm sure they offered him something at some point along the way.
09:25And Aaron Judge said, F you.
09:27Aaron Judge went year to year.
09:28His last couple of arbitration years, he made money.
09:31He made 19 million in his last arbitration year.
09:34He went to free agency.
09:35It got a little contentious.
09:37It went back and forth.
09:38He was out there for a little bit.
09:39The Yankees signed him back.
09:41So the Yankees can do that.
09:43The Red Sox are no longer doing that.
09:45If their Aaron Judge gets to that point, he's gone.
09:48Or they're going to trade him at the end of the contract.
09:49Correct.
09:50So this is still a mid-market kind of approach.
09:54Yes.
09:54Which shouldn't make you feel good.
09:55So the only thing they did differently here that they didn't do with Mookie Betts is that...
10:01And PDA wrote about some of this, too.
10:03They got to him really early.
10:05Okay.
10:05So they were a year behind on Betts.
10:09And when they offered 100, it was 200.
10:11When they offered 200, it was 300.
10:13When they offered 300, it was almost 400.
10:15So they were constantly chasing the price, whereas on this one, they were out in front of it at least a little bit because he hadn't even played.
10:23But I will say this.
10:25What did they offer him in the spring if he completely just shot it down?
10:29Yeah, right.
10:30What did they offer him?
10:3150 million?
10:32Like, what sort of lame-ass attempt was that if he turned it down?
10:37Because it feels to me like they completely half-assed it.
10:40So, look, good for them.
10:42And I say that sincerely.
10:44It's good for the fans.
10:45It's good for them.
10:46It's not as lucrative a contract or as big a deal as a lot of fans want to believe because he was going to be here for the next six years anyway.
10:56Five at least.
10:57They might have had to trade him before year six if he didn't want to sign.
11:00Well, this is also why the carrying on from both him and the team about this is where he wanted to be long-term just puzzles me.
11:06He wasn't going anywhere for seven, six-plus, call it seven years.
11:12So it's like I decided I wanted to be here long-term.
11:15Implying as if he had a choice.
11:18Implying as if, you know, this offseason, I don't know where I was going to go.
11:22So that's another thing, Maz.
11:23It's a good deal for the Red Sox.
11:25But I just – the bull crap meter, the spin zone, the spin that comes out of the press conferences, it's just I have a hard time with it.
11:33Oh, they can't help them.
11:34Well, and most fans hear eight years.
11:36And they think, oh, yeah, we got him for eight years.
11:38You had him for six.
11:39Right, you had him anyway.
11:40You had him for seven.
11:41They don't know that.
11:42You had him for seven.
11:44And, Waley, you wouldn't see him here for the eight years.
11:45They'll trade him for a bag of magic beans in like three.
11:48Well, not if he's outperforming the contract, meaning if the contract's of value to them.
11:55He could pull a Rafi Devers times ten.
11:59If he's outperforming the contract, he stays.
12:02Rafi Devers was underperforming the contract.
12:04They hated the Rafi Devers contract.
12:06Devers wasn't worth it based on their metrics.
12:09If Anthony's worth it, they're not going to peddle him.
12:12No, no, no.
12:13Absolutely not.
12:13I don't trust these geeks.
12:15Yeah, it's going to be hard for him to not be worth it.
12:18Because, again, I think the luxury tax hit on this is like $16 million.
12:21I was going to say $16.
12:22$16.
12:23I mean, for crying out loud, we could all crap $16 million.
12:27It might take us a little while, but we could do it.
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