The People's History Show Season 5 Episode 4

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Transcript

00:30Hello and welcome to the People's History Show, the series that uncovers incredible stories all over Scotland.

00:35I'm Jennifer Rear.

00:36And I'm Fergus Sutherland, coming up on tonight's show.

00:41I'm going to Ravenscraig in Motherwell, which once housed the biggest hot strip steel plant in Europe.

00:47With over 12,000 workers, it was the biggest and most important employer in South Lanarkshire.

00:54And I'll be finding out about a pioneer of women's football, Edna Nielis,

00:58who pushed the boundaries of the beautiful game here in Scotland.

01:03Now, the Ravenscraig Steelworks site was once the centre of the Scottish steel industry.

01:09It was massive and it had a huge impact on the area and the people of Motherwell.

01:13Sunday, 28th of July, 1996 was a sad day for many in Motherwell.

01:26The largest hot strip steel mill in Western Europe, Ravenscraig, saw its final day.

01:32Its iconic towers fell to the ground.

01:34I think it was a motive because at one point we had a huge steelworks on our doorstep.

01:40It was thousands of jobs for our local community.

01:43And almost overnight that disappeared and it was devastating.

01:46And we didn't really recover as an area.

01:49When we're talking about the Industrial Revolution, we're talking about places like Motherwell.

01:54And for Motherwell, that industry was steel.

01:58Well, Ravenscraig was the most advanced steelworks in Scotland.

02:02It was unique in Scotland in that it was an integrated steelworks.

02:05That means basically they did everything.

02:07The raw materials came in, were processed, turned into iron.

02:10And then the iron, while it was still molten, was turned into steel.

02:13And then the steel would be processed and turned into products that could be sold.

02:17Ravenscraig was a vast site.

02:18It was about 700 football pitches or twice the size of Monaco.

02:21You had coal receiving yards, you had iron ore receiving yards,

02:25blast furnaces of which you've seen the outlines or the footprints of.

02:31It was had the capacity to produce up to 3 million tons of steel.

02:51This is what it's like to be inside a modern steel plant.

02:55It's a bit further advanced than Ravenscraig was, but it gives you a real feel for what it was like.

03:00Especially the sheer heat and the noise that you get in here.

03:03You'll see I'm wearing hearing aids due to the noise.

03:09It was terrific noise in the strip mill.

03:12Lots of people, lots of dangerous things going on, lots of smells.

03:17I went in there and I was barely past 20 years old.

03:23It was a scary, scary place.

03:25The plant was such a big part of the culture of Motherwell.

03:29At its peak, it employed over 12,000 people in the steel industry.

03:33The people you worked with, you were all, it was a dangerous place to work as well.

03:37But I don't know anybody that didn't enjoy it.

03:39I spent a good part of my working life there.

03:45It was utopia.

03:47A great place to work.

03:49When you were working round about the vessel or molten metal in the teeming pits,

03:53you had a woolen suit.

03:56So you had woolen trousers, woolen jacket.

03:58You normally had a neck scarf.

04:01Fireproof helmet.

04:03Dark glasses.

04:04Hearing protection.

04:05And I actually remember one time I met one of the teemers in Hamilton one day.

04:13And I didn't recognise him.

04:14And I had worked with this chap for almost a year.

04:17I'd only ever seen him in work.

04:19I met him outside dressed in his civvies.

04:21I didn't even know who it was.

04:23The production rate was so high that Motherwell became the steel production capital of Scotland

04:28and became known as Steelopolis.

04:31It was really important to the towns of Motherwell and Whishall

04:34mainly because the Ravenscraig workers, because it was the most productive plant,

04:39they were the best paid by quite some distance.

04:41They were much better paid than other steel workers.

04:44So suddenly people who could never dream of affording a car,

04:48they could buy these luxury, well, what seemed like luxuries at the time.

04:51So it really transformed the local economy.

04:53It's no surprise really that Motherwell Town Centre was completely rebuilt

04:58since in the years after Ravenscraig opened.

05:00The steel industry had such a big impact on the people in Motherwell,

05:04even Motherwell Football Club are nicknamed the Steel Men.

05:09The output was truly astonishing,

05:11at one point making two million tonnes of molten steel every year.

05:16They would sell the steel onto other manufacturers

05:19and then they would be produced all around the country,

05:23maybe abroad as well.

05:24So if you were driving your car,

05:25you could have been driving a piece of Ravenscraig.

05:27Yes, and of course the joy with steel is because steel is nearly all recycled.

05:31You're probably still seeing Ravenscraig products being used today.

05:34So steel that was made here in Ravenscraig has still been used.

05:37Exactly.

05:37Except it's been recycled.

05:38From the 1970s onwards, global industrial competition

05:57really started to impact upon the heavy industries of Great Britain.

06:02There were attempts to restructure the steel industry

06:04throughout the 70s and then into the 1980s.

06:07Ian McGregor, who many people will remember,

06:10was made the chairman of British Steel in 1980

06:12and one of his first recommendations was to close Ravenscraig.

06:16There was hints of closing down from the mid-80s,

06:19even though we were doing really well in the mid-80s

06:21where quality steel we were producing,

06:24and I know that because I was in the quality control department,

06:26quality steel we produced was second to none

06:28and that was not just in Britain, that was in Europe.

06:32But there was rumours then because

06:34where we were situated and well were in the central belt,

06:36so our supplies had to come from Hunterston, etc.

06:40So you've got cost implications there as well.

06:43A decision was made to close Ravenscraig

06:45and this kind of gradually happened really.

06:47It was death by a thousand cuts in a way.

06:49Gradually different parts of the plant were closed down

06:51until it was a much smaller enterprise

06:53and much less self-contained, I guess.

06:56It was scheduled to shut.

06:58We were told, I think it was 1990,

07:00we were told it was shut in 1992, round about that.

07:02On Saturday, 27th of June, 1992, the plant finally closed.

07:15It was an extremely difficult time for the workers

07:18with mass redundancies.

07:20Some had been working there for over 30 years

07:23and now they were forced to close this chapter of their lives.

07:27You still hear the stories of what Ravenscraig meant

07:31but also the aftermath when people were left

07:33with absolutely nothing to take them forward

07:35and it had a big impact on the local community.

07:38The local community I'm a councillor in,

07:39I think we still feel the effects of Ravenscraig,

07:42the people who lost their jobs,

07:43maybe never got jobs in the future.

07:44The Lanarkshire area, especially that,

07:47round about Murrow, Bellsill, Hollowtown, Mossend,

07:50had a really heavy impact.

07:52The steelworks had a heavy impact.

07:53It was families worked in there.

07:55I mean, obviously, the pubs, shops and that all around,

08:01they were hugely affected.

08:03A lot of them retrained, you know,

08:05they were paid so long to train bus drivers

08:09or, you know, whatever.

08:11Some of them dwindled their money away drinking.

08:15That's it.

08:16It's a bad day, isn't it?

08:18Once it's finished,

08:19when they do something new,

08:20they find something else.

08:22And I think for all people who created new,

08:24the community created new,

08:26I think there's grace what's happening.

08:29This place should still be alive and still working,

08:31the people should still be working.

08:33There's nothing left here for anybody.

08:35The site was completely levelled in 1993.

08:39The area is now the largest brownfield site in Europe,

08:49but there are extensive regeneration plans in the works.

08:53It's a very emotive site for our community

08:55and Motherwell and other parts of Lanarkshire.

08:58And we're desperate to do something with it

09:00and to rebuild Ravenscraig

09:01and make it a modern area for our community.

09:04The area itself is now being rebuilt,

09:07regrown and renewed.

09:10I think the regeneration of Ravenscraig is across all age groups.

09:13I mean, it's wonderful to have the college,

09:15it's wonderful to have the sports centre.

09:17It's young people and old people

09:18who want to see something on the site.

09:20They want to see it redeveloped

09:21because we all remember the history of it.

09:23Even people who haven't lived through it,

09:24they still remember the powerful history for our area.

09:27The site that once gave Motherwell its glow has gone,

09:30but its impact can still be felt.

09:33I think this is not just a Motherwell project,

09:35this is a North Lanarkshire and Scotland project.

09:37It's that significant.

09:38It's a site that's bigger than Monaco

09:40and the investment going in is at a scale

09:42we've maybe not seen before.

09:43So this is not just for Motherwell,

09:45it's for the whole of Scotland

09:46that's going to become very significant.

09:47It's hugely important in the popular memory,

09:50not just because it was such a key part

09:52of Scotland's steel industry,

09:53but also as a kind of symbol

09:55of Scotland's manufacturing industry.

09:57Scottish steel goes way back into the 19th century

10:00when Colville was making steel for the 4th Bridge.

10:05It's kind of that symbol of when we used to make things.

10:09They've done other jobs since then,

10:10but Ravenscraig's up there.

10:12The job's just the kind of place it was.

10:15You could be yourself in it.

10:17Good laughs, good times.

10:19If I had to do my time again,

10:21I wouldn't have any hesitation in saying

10:23I'm going to go to the steelworks.

10:26A lifetime in the steelworks.

10:28It's always been a lifetime.

10:2947, 48 years.

10:33And you're still alive.

10:34And I'm still here.

10:35You've still got your fingers.

10:37Still got my fingers.

10:47The size of that site is incredible.

10:49Yeah, twice the size of Monaco.

10:50Amazing.

10:51Now, we've got to take a short break,

10:53but make sure you stay with us

10:54because I'll be finding out

10:55about a trailblazer of women's football.

10:57And she went on to play all over Europe.

10:59See you after the break.

11:00Welcome back to the People's History Show.

11:17Now, it's hard to believe,

11:19but at one point,

11:20women's football was banned in Scotland.

11:22However, there were women who refused to accept it

11:25and played the game regardless.

11:26Women like Edna Neelis.

11:28MUSIC PLAYS

11:29For years, football in Scotland was thought of

11:46as exclusively a man's game.

11:48There were, however, women willing to challenge those attitudes.

11:52Women who would go on to play at the highest level.

11:54Women like Edna Neelis.

11:56In the 60s, there wasn't such a thing as a women's football team

12:00that we knew of.

12:01So breaking down those barriers then

12:03was absolutely vital to the success

12:06that we now see in the women's game.

12:08Edna's generation,

12:09and Edna in particular herself,

12:10what she was able to do as a player

12:12definitely inspired others to go on and play football as well.

12:17Edna's ability, her technical ability,

12:19was amazing, incredible.

12:21And she could always...

12:22It didn't matter who she was playing beside.

12:24She could bring them into the game.

12:26She was a total football player.

12:30Contrary to popular opinion,

12:31women playing football isn't a new phenomenon.

12:33In fact, we've been playing the game

12:35since as far back as 1881.

12:37The women's game in Scotland

12:40became really popular during the First World War.

12:44Women went into the factories

12:45and took up the jobs that the men had vacated

12:47to go off and fight.

12:49And as part of that process,

12:51they started to take up leisure activities and sports

12:54that the men used to do, basically.

12:58Opportunities were opened up.

12:59And one of the games that they took up was football.

13:01So the games really start to take off

13:04at a local level within the factories,

13:05and then the leagues start to develop

13:07between the factories,

13:08in much the same way that the men's game had.

13:11So you would have factory teams

13:12playing against one another.

13:14And these grew in popularity

13:15and they would get huge crowds coming to watch them.

13:19However, when the First World War ends

13:21and all the men come back,

13:22the women are said, you know,

13:23are told, thank you for your services,

13:25but now it's time to go back

13:26to the home and the hearth

13:28and the roles that you had before the war.

13:30And the pinnacle of that discussion

13:32is in 1921, when the FA decide to ban women's football.

13:37So they take this radical decision

13:39that they are no longer going to permit women

13:42to play on any of the affiliated pitches

13:44across England.

13:47And the SFA, the Scottish Football Association,

13:49subsequently adopt that same ruling

13:52and ban women from playing on their affiliated pitches.

13:55This ban would change the course

13:57of the women's game forever.

13:59We've got the Scottish FA minute books

14:01in the museum collection

14:02and you look at 1924, 1925,

14:04a number of times you've got senior football clubs

14:06in Scotland asking permission

14:08to host a women's football match,

14:10they had to ask permission from the Scottish FA

14:12and each time the Scottish FA says,

14:14no, we don't support women's football.

14:16But women's football still went on, didn't it?

14:18Yeah, the Scottish FA couldn't ban

14:20women from playing football full stop.

14:22There was nothing to stop them from doing that.

14:25But what they were able to do

14:26was to stop organisations within their control

14:29from supporting women's football,

14:31so particularly the member clubs.

14:33They wouldn't budge.

14:34They just thought it wasn't for women.

14:36Women cannae play football.

14:38That's all we used to get told,

14:39oh, women cannae play football.

14:41I always tried throughout my youth to play football.

14:43It was never allowed,

14:44not allowed at primary school to play football,

14:46not allowed at secondary school to play football.

14:48And believe you me, I asked a lot.

14:50And we didn't realise then

14:52how much adversity we were going to face

14:55just to get a game of football.

14:58It was 50 years later in the 1970s

15:01when things would finally start to change.

15:04In 1971, UEFA wanted to bring structure

15:07to the women's game.

15:08And so a vote with its 31 members was held.

15:1230 football associations passed the vote

15:14with only one, not two.

15:17Scotland.

15:17Elsie, what do you think of the SFA's attitude

15:20to not allowing women to play football

15:23or not recognising them?

15:25I'll need to watch my words here.

15:27I think in this day and age,

15:29when there are bills going through Parliament

15:30for equal rights for women,

15:32equal conditions, equal pay,

15:34it's dreadful that they're against us playing at football.

15:37The SFA I'm talking about.

15:39Us playing at football.

15:40The SFA I'm talking about.

15:42Something's got to be done.

15:44We must have these...

15:47equal rights or we're never going to be getting any better.

15:55Five days a week,

15:57Edna Neelis helps to put the spirit into bottles.

16:00But come lunchtime,

16:01Edna shuns the company of a female workmate.

16:04She likes to play with the boys.

16:06And the more spirit they put into that,

16:08the more she likes it.

16:09The first time I set eyes on Edna,

16:12we were in the Butlins tournament finals.

16:14And this new team came into her line of vision

16:16and it was West Thorn United.

16:18So there we were thinking it'd be a skoosh.

16:20And here we're walking onto the park.

16:22Two lines of women walking onto the park.

16:25And this wee boy pipes up.

16:27Wake up Maggie,

16:29I think I've got something to say to you.

16:33It was Edna.

16:34I turned around and I'm going,

16:35oh my God, what have we got here?

16:37It was Edna.

16:37She was Rod Stewart.

16:38Daft.

16:39Absolutely daft and Rod Stewart.

16:41So we giggled and giggled and we got into the park.

16:44But I just,

16:44I fell in love with Edna.

16:45Just,

16:46that was it.

16:47There was an immediate

16:48closeness.

16:51It was Rose,

16:52Edna and myself

16:53from that day on.

16:54Three amigos.

16:55Even though it maybe is.

16:58Edna and Elyss,

16:59Rose Riley and Elsie Cook

17:00were all part of an amazing team

17:01that became a driving force

17:03pushing forward the world of women's football.

17:06Why do you think the SFB

17:07doesn't recognise you?

17:10Simply because we're women.

17:12That is the only reason they've ever given us.

17:15Rose,

17:15you are pretty well known in ladies football.

17:17Do you honestly think it's a game

17:18to be played by ladies?

17:20Yes,

17:20I don't see no reason why you shouldn't be.

17:22Yeah,

17:22but it's not exactly the most gentle sport

17:24that you could play.

17:25No,

17:25I wouldn't say hockey as either.

17:27After all,

17:27they've got sticks and we've nothing.

17:30Despite not having the support of the SFA,

17:32the Scottish Women's Football Association

17:34was set up in 1972.

17:37And the first official Scotland versus England game

17:39took place in Greenock

17:41at the Ravens Craig Stadium

17:42that same year.

17:44Edna,

17:45then just 18,

17:47was part of that historic team.

17:49Do you honestly think,

17:50you know,

17:50the SFA have banned

17:51or just don't recognise women's football?

17:54Do you really think, though,

17:54that football is a game for ladies?

17:57Well,

17:57we've proved that we can be good.

17:59I'm not saying that the likes of them

18:00are as good as we may.

18:01We can have a fair show of skill

18:03as well as scoring the goals

18:04when we're playing.

18:06Our skills were

18:07unbelievable.

18:08Technically,

18:09she was an unbelievable player.

18:11She was like a wee messy.

18:12People have compared her

18:13to Jimmy Johnston

18:14and anybody who knows

18:15Jimmy Johnston

18:16and how great he was as a player,

18:17a great dribbler,

18:18great close control of the ball.

18:20But also I think Edna was a goal scorer

18:21as well.

18:22She could actually kind of

18:22put the ball in the back of the net,

18:24which was a great advantage

18:25at that time.

18:25So she had, I think,

18:26everything going for her

18:27as a football player.

18:29You were playing the match,

18:29what,

18:30a couple of weeks ago

18:31and you scored 11 goals?

18:32Yeah,

18:32we were playing a team

18:33from the Fairland.

18:34We won 16-0.

18:37Edna

18:37and Rose

18:38Riley

18:39played together

18:40and were very good friends

18:42and they were the best

18:45female Scottish players

18:46in that period.

18:48And then Rose

18:48heard about this girl

18:49playing for professional football

18:52for Reims in France.

18:53They went to France

18:54and they did a trial for Reims

18:56and they really impressed

18:58everybody there

18:59and they played a number of games.

19:01While they were with Reims,

19:02the season was due to end

19:04so an Italian scout

19:06was at the game,

19:07signed them for AC Milan

19:09and off they went to Italy.

19:12Nielis was hugely successful

19:13at Milan.

19:14In fact,

19:14one game she scored a hat-trick

19:16in front of 20,000 fans.

19:19How many male footballers

19:20have actually managed to play

19:21for AC Milan

19:22or the equivalent?

19:24Not many.

19:25Edna's success in Italy

19:26only continued

19:27and she went on to win

19:28not only the league

19:29but also the cup

19:30several times.

19:31After speaking out

19:34against the national coach

19:35in 1975,

19:37Edna, Rose and Elsie

19:38all received lifetime bans

19:39from the SFA.

19:41Edna,

19:42unfortunately that meant

19:43she didn't get to play

19:44in international matches

19:46again.

19:47However,

19:49Rose managed to circumvent that

19:50by being allowed

19:52to play for Italy.

19:54So Rose actually went on

19:55and played for Italy

19:56which is possibly why

19:57Rose has a higher profile

19:59in the public consciousness now.

20:00people know her

20:01because of that success

20:03and unfortunately

20:04Edna wasn't able to do that

20:06so I think that's part

20:08of the reason

20:08that we don't necessarily

20:10know her name

20:11and we should know her name

20:12because she was a pioneer

20:13of the game.

20:15Both Edna and Rose

20:16continued their careers

20:17away from Scottish soil

20:18and played for Italian teams

20:20winning leagues

20:20and Italian cups

20:22throughout the 1980s

20:23before retiring in 1990.

20:26Sadly,

20:27after suffering from ill health

20:28Edna passed away

20:29in 2015

20:29but her legacy

20:31still lives on.

20:38You just look at them

20:39and think

20:39they just battled

20:40against all odds

20:41to achieve something amazing.

20:47Especially for young girls

20:49that opportunities

20:49are endless these days.

20:51We certainly should appreciate

20:52the hard work

20:52and determination

20:53that they showed

20:54in order to give us

20:55the platform

20:56that we have now.

21:07We're now internationally

21:08recognised

21:09as top class players

21:12in the women's game

21:14and that I think

21:15is the legacy

21:16of these women

21:16and in particular

21:18Edna.

21:18We should remember

21:27players like Edna

21:28not just for their

21:29abilities on the pitch

21:30but for being trailblazers

21:31of the women's game.

21:33She was amazing on the pitch

21:34and she was amazing off it.

21:36She lit up the dressing room.

21:38It didn't matter

21:38where we were

21:39or what we were doing.

21:41Edna was alive

21:42and soul

21:42at everything

21:43that was taking place.

21:44She was just

21:45a character.

21:47A Glasgow character.

21:49It's amazing to think

21:50that AC Milan

21:50had two Scottish players.

21:52I know,

21:52it's incredible.

21:53Thanks for watching

21:54the People's History Show.

21:55We'll see you next time.

22:12We'll see you next time.

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