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00:00:00Grazie a tutti
00:00:30Grazie, grazie
00:00:36Our country
00:00:37We're Polar
00:00:40Come on, start already, I'm bored
00:00:48I just do it
00:00:52I don't plan it
00:00:53I don't draw it out
00:00:55I just take a brush or a spray can
00:00:57On the white canvas
00:00:59And I feel
00:01:01I don't feel it's from a particular source
00:01:04I think it's from all sources
00:01:05And
00:01:06It's just a mixture of
00:01:11Of everything
00:01:13And most of the time
00:01:17It's just out of my head
00:01:18I just imagine this image
00:01:20And just paint from that
00:01:21Sometimes I get ideas
00:01:24From other things
00:01:26But basically
00:01:27It's from my imagination
00:01:29And I'm just
00:01:31Expressing
00:01:32Inside
00:01:35And just trying to
00:01:38I guess
00:01:38Make
00:01:39Great things
00:01:41I'm an artist
00:01:53I'm an artist
00:02:07I didn't really think I had much of a choice
00:02:10Just am
00:02:11Born that way
00:02:13And I don't know what else I could've done
00:02:15I don't know what else I could've done
00:02:16The art world is too serious in a way
00:02:22And it's about time that a little kind of goofy wind book come into the art world and sort of shake it out
00:02:29The mad, glad man
00:02:33The glad
00:02:35And the mad
00:02:37The mad glad
00:02:38The mad glad
00:02:39The mad glad
00:02:39In the early 1980s
00:02:56Kenny was a major force in the East Village art scene
00:02:59They've effectively changed the language of the art scene in New York in a matter of two or two years
00:03:04In the sense that they've created a tremendous variety of imagery and characters that have appealed to a vast audience
00:03:26The mad
00:03:47Grazie, grazie.
00:04:17Grazie, grazie.
00:04:47Grazie, grazie.
00:05:17Grazie, grazie.
00:05:47Grazie.
00:05:49Grazie.
00:06:19Grazie.
00:06:51Grazie.
00:06:53Grazie.
00:06:55Grazie.
00:06:57Grazie.
00:06:59Grazie.
00:07:01Grazie.
00:07:03Grazie.
00:07:05Grazie.
00:07:07Grazie.
00:07:09Grazie.
00:07:11Grazie.
00:07:13Grazie.
00:07:15Grazie.
00:07:17Grazie.
00:07:19Grazie.
00:07:21Grazie.
00:07:23Grazie.
00:07:25Grazie.
00:07:27Grazie.
00:07:29Grazie.
00:07:31Grazie.
00:07:33Grazie.
00:07:35Grazie.
00:07:37Grazie.
00:07:39Grazie.
00:07:41Grazie.
00:07:43Grazie.
00:07:45La scuola di scuola!
00:07:47I mean, chi ha pensato che una scuola e una cuota
00:07:52sarebbe una scuola fantastica?
00:07:58In mio opinione, è fantastico.
00:08:03Molte persone pensano che sono stile,
00:08:06e penso che sia bene.
00:08:15I grew up in Los Angeles,
00:08:22e a lot of people, you know,
00:08:25would see where Los Angeles is in the work,
00:08:28you know, a very pop place,
00:08:31especially growing up in the 60s,
00:08:33and I grew up in the valley,
00:08:35and everything is pretty plastic,
00:08:37and pop, and bright,
00:08:40and there's not too many old things
00:08:43or traditional things.
00:08:46You know, I didn't know anything else,
00:08:48so I would say that that has something to do with what I do.
00:09:00I remember once I was watching him paint,
00:09:03and he took the paintbrush with paint,
00:09:06and he drew a purr-fectly straight line,
00:09:10like you put a ruler and would draw.
00:09:13And I said to him,
00:09:14gee, I could never do that.
00:09:16And he said, you don't have to.
00:09:18And it's true.
00:09:21I sometimes wonder,
00:09:22where did he get the talent?
00:09:24Because I really don't know.
00:09:28I never thought he was gonna be a professional.
00:09:33No, really and truly.
00:09:36Growing up in the typical suburban setting,
00:09:39dad working, mom home.
00:09:42My dad was a sweet man,
00:09:45but I don't really feel like he was there for me.
00:09:51Oh, he had parents?
00:09:53No, anytime we had a meal,
00:09:55I would see the family.
00:09:57But we rarely saw them.
00:09:59He started to get his aesthetic back then,
00:10:039th, 10th, 11th, 10th grade.
00:10:05And there was always an irony in his work.
00:10:07I mean, there was always something kind of sinister
00:10:10or kooky sinister behind the veneer
00:10:14that was trying to be normal.
00:10:17I always felt a little isolated.
00:10:25I never really belonged to any particular group or clique.
00:10:32And just, I felt different from everybody.
00:10:36I was kind of an outsider.
00:10:38I think, you know,
00:10:39that has to do with being an artist as well.
00:10:41Kenny Sharp was a young boy, of course.
00:10:46But as a young boy,
00:10:48he's watching a great deal of television.
00:10:50It was very interesting to see him,
00:10:52to see this young boy in that circumstance,
00:10:55what impact it had on him.
00:10:57And suddenly, all of that became material
00:11:00for him to use in his fantasy art making.
00:11:04Like, sometimes I'll dream things.
00:11:12You know, cartoon imagery or something.
00:11:15Like, stuff I've seen on TV
00:11:17that's now, it's part of my subconscious.
00:11:20Kenny Sharp was very self-conscious,
00:11:36even as a student,
00:11:38of being an artist who's working off the television culture.
00:11:41That, to him, I suppose,
00:11:43is what theology and the cathedrals are to a medieval artist.
00:11:47And so the question is, what do you do with it?
00:11:49You live in it.
00:11:50And it seems to me that what he's done
00:11:52is to try to encourage
00:11:53some kind of intellectual appreciation
00:11:55of what's at stake here in this culture.
00:12:06It was totally dull 70s going on in L.A.
00:12:09And I start really getting into Warhol
00:12:12and the factory and New York.
00:12:15I was like, this is just the most fun thing ever.
00:12:19And I want to go there.
00:12:21So that was basically my fuel for moving to New York,
00:12:25was learning about Andy
00:12:27and how he made art fun.
00:12:28And how he made art fun.
00:12:30Kenny Sharp first came to the attention of New York in the early 1980s,
00:12:31when he made paintings based on the Jetsons, the Flintstones,
00:12:35and other cartoon imagery found in popular culture.
00:12:52You have lots of religious paintings.
00:12:53Yes, I do.
00:12:54I found that in the trash.
00:12:55That one, man.
00:12:56You found it in the trash?
00:12:57I found most of them, the religious things, in the trash.
00:12:59I don't like to make any distinction between my art and my life or my surroundings.
00:13:05I try to just be myself and if this is this kind of thing, which I don't know what you would call it, decoration or just my apartment, I don't know.
00:13:30When a good time turns around, you must whip it.
00:13:35You will never live it.
00:13:36I applied to all those art schools and the only one that would take me was SVA, which was, it took anyone.
00:13:42I happened to be wandering around in the hall and I heard the Devo music.
00:13:47Whip it good.
00:13:48I should whip it.
00:13:51And so I kind of followed it and then I came upon Keith painting to the beat of the music in this room,
00:13:59and he was almost finished except for the corner where he was standing.
00:14:04So he had painted himself into a corner and I just stood there.
00:14:07And I remember thinking when I saw him, this is the person I've been looking for.
00:14:13This is what I imagined when I went to art school in New York.
00:14:17What's the story of Danny Warhol? What do you think of what he's doing today?
00:14:32I mean, since I came to New York or even when I learned about art history, it was like, that was like the figure for me.
00:14:39He was like my hero.
00:14:41And then I remember I met him, the first time I met him, it was at Peppermint Lounge, when they opened Peppermint Lounge in Times Square.
00:14:48And he just thought I was something like this cute boy.
00:14:52And he was like taking, he was taking feathers out of this girl's hat and putting them in my hair.
00:14:58And I remember I said to him, I said, you know, we're in the same show together.
00:15:02And he's like, oh, really? What's that?
00:15:04I go, the New York New Way show.
00:15:06I go, oh, yeah.
00:15:07I said, and I told him my name.
00:15:09I said, and you'll, you'll hear me.
00:15:11You're going to remember that name.
00:15:12You'll hear it again.
00:15:13I knew Kenneth to be famous the minute I met him.
00:15:18Really?
00:15:19Why?
00:15:20I don't know.
00:15:21I just really, I just, you know, I just, I just knew it really, really.
00:15:27Um, there was a short period where you and Kenneth were hanging out together, right?
00:15:33A very brief period.
00:15:34No, no, no, no, no, no, not that brief.
00:15:37Not that brief?
00:15:38But you had a falling out.
00:15:40No, we didn't have any falling out.
00:15:41We didn't have any falling out, dude.
00:15:42I don't, I don't know, you know, I don't know.
00:15:43I don't know.
00:15:44I don't know what happens.
00:15:45I mean.
00:15:48Well, he said he'd been tagging with you once around the city.
00:15:53Did he?
00:15:54He had never tagged before, but he, he borrowed the spray can from you.
00:15:57No.
00:15:58And he did a TV set and he wrote Flintstones inside.
00:16:02This was one of the...
00:16:03I don't remember this.
00:16:04But also, but I was on Heavy Joys.
00:16:06I don't remember.
00:16:07I don't remember.
00:16:09Sounds good though.
00:16:14Three artists, Scharf, Basquiat and Herring, it's kind of one of those quirks of timing.
00:16:24I think that they all kind of came together at the same moment and it's kind of fascinating
00:16:29that they all three came from different parts of the country and they all seem to have just
00:16:36found each other.
00:16:37Some kind of magnets drew them together.
00:16:39They brought, they brought a vitality and an energy to art that just hadn't been there.
00:16:45The importance of those three artists, they just seem to bring the 80s alive really.
00:16:51They're engagement with the street specifically, making that anyone could see that, right?
00:16:57You didn't have to go into a white cube.
00:16:58You didn't have to go into a museum.
00:17:00Anyone could experience that.
00:17:02And even just their deciding that this is art.
00:17:05This is art as much as, you know, a kind of framed picture within the walls of the Whitney Museum.
00:17:10All of that, the street, these spaces, the use of their imagery felt about this idea of making art less precious
00:17:18and making it more accessible.
00:17:25Can I talk about sex and drugs and rock and roll or no?
00:17:29When I came to New York in the 70s, New York was a great place because it was bankrupt.
00:17:35It was a bankrupt city, so you could move in.
00:17:39You didn't need very little money to survive.
00:17:41And so all the artists came, of course.
00:17:43I mean, everybody came to this village and, you know, you may invent yourself.
00:17:54Well, I created the fantasy person that I wanted to be.
00:18:00And I called myself Jet, Jet Scharf.
00:18:05Kenny used to live in this...
00:18:07The back of his building gave to the back of Klaus Nomi building.
00:18:11I'm Klaus Nomi. I'm from the planet Nomi.
00:18:14So you hear him rehearsing.
00:18:20There's a lot of roof parties at the time.
00:18:24Summertime was roof party time.
00:18:26There was a lot of hanky-panky on the roof.
00:18:30I always remember this image of New York in the summer and the roof.
00:18:35I mean, God.
00:18:36I arrived in 77 and I came straight from England and I was 17.
00:18:40It was, it was just a completely different city than it is now.
00:18:45Downtown was, was very empty.
00:18:50That's the one thing I remember most about New York at that time is that you could walk downtown at night and it was absolutely empty.
00:18:58And it was really, really beautiful and really romantic, you know, really mysterious and, and wonderful.
00:19:06It was probably the most creative place in, in the world at that point.
00:19:12What those guys were doing and what we were all trying to do as artists was to be individual and have our own like styles and our own flavors.
00:19:19It was a fresh new idea to this broad canvas, which was New York City.
00:19:24We were all trying to get into the doors of the art world, but also trying to hold the doors open for some other people to come in.
00:19:30I think Kenny was, he was really, really making video art then.
00:19:37I remember meeting him one night with, with Bruno going over there and he was editing or something.
00:19:46Me and Kenny went to, um, to Scotland to visit Samantha McEwen.
00:19:51And then Kenny decided to make a vampire movie, me being the vampire.
00:19:56And Samantha's father said, you can film anywhere you want, except in the cemetery because the whole family is in the cemetery.
00:20:09Of course, the one place that Kenny wanted to film was in the cemetery.
00:20:13Every day there'd be like 200 things he had to go and do, but they weren't like normal people's things he had to do.
00:20:28It wasn't like go to the office and post the letter.
00:20:30It was like, you know, take the vacuum cleaner for a walk and, you know, like really unexpected.
00:20:38Most appliances and telephones, et cetera, are really pretty boring.
00:20:44And, um, I, I transform them into something different.
00:20:50It just changes an average person's life.
00:20:53You're using the telephone. Um, everyone does it all the time.
00:20:57You don't think about it.
00:20:59Every time you use a phone, if you can like put your finger on the jewels and, you know, you pick it up and there's like pretty things to look at.
00:21:09It helps, you know, it, it improves the quality of life.
00:21:15He paints on everything and anything. And he always did, you know, always.
00:21:19And in customizing back then it was customizing TVs and toaster ovens and telephones.
00:21:24And, oh yeah, well there's no separation between Kenny and his art.
00:21:28What else do you have?
00:21:31Well, look at him, look at him.
00:21:34The broom even has a ribbon on it. Look at this. Even the broom.
00:21:39Every single thing that Kenny did was not what you expected.
00:21:45We would never have imagined anybody would do that.
00:21:48So, you know, I, and I think Keith also was, was, you know, when he started doing the subway drawings and stuff, you know, I mean, it was completely out of nowhere.
00:22:00You know, I think that was the most amazing thing about them was that they were both completely sort of unexpected.
00:22:07Also, the other thing was very, very, very real about them was that it was their generation.
00:22:14It was, it was their work, their life, their idea.
00:22:18It had absolutely nothing to do with what was going on in the galleries at that time.
00:22:25You love this song?
00:22:33It's beauty, Popeyes.
00:22:35I wrote it.
00:22:36You did it?
00:22:37Yeah, I wrote this song.
00:22:38You wrote this one?
00:22:39This song.
00:22:40Among others, but yes.
00:22:44Mmm.
00:22:45Yeah, that looks cool, right?
00:22:47Okay, so living with Keith, being with Keith, like, I was just wondering, because I know that there was a really beautiful relationship, but then an undercurrent sometime of...
00:23:01Well, it was hard for me.
00:23:03When Keith and I were roommates, that's when he started doing his subway drawings, and it just kind of exploded for him, like, really exploded.
00:23:13And I remember the first couple times people came over, it was like my work was invisible.
00:23:24I remember the feeling of, like, what am I going to, you know?
00:23:28So, yeah, it was hard on the ego, for sure.
00:23:31It didn't even really sink in that, you know, here I am, like, four years later, enjoying drawings of the Whitney.
00:23:36And you have all these new things keep on top of you that you're supposed to deal with and be responsible for.
00:23:41And it's supposed to become this sort of role model for all these other people.
00:23:45Now, because it is sort of a big responsibility to be the one person that is signaled out.
00:23:50Because every, all these other people, I mean, hundreds of other people that supposedly would like to be in your shoes, but they, you know, obviously are not going to be given the chance.
00:24:00Because there is, at any one time, there's only a handful of people that get to do it.
00:24:04He and Keith were absolutely like brothers, you know, and, and, you know, but fiercely competitive.
00:24:13I mean, very seriously competitive.
00:24:16And I think Kenny's process wasn't there yet.
00:24:22I mean, I don't know what Kenny's, you know, feelings are about that era.
00:24:26But I do know, I do remember it being, witnessing this incredible struggle in himself to, to sort of, to become the next thing that he needed to become.
00:24:39I remember going to close to the seven, like we just went there and hung out and listened to the jukebox and drank.
00:25:00You were, you, this crowd was the first crowd to really completely embrace popular culture, right?
00:25:08I guess so.
00:25:09We didn't realize it.
00:25:10The first downtown hip scene to, to, to really get into it.
00:25:13TV.
00:25:14You guys didn't want to wear that at the time?
00:25:16Hm?
00:25:17You weren't conscious of that?
00:25:18Sort of.
00:25:19Yeah, because, but we were doing it because it was fun.
00:25:21Yeah, we were, it was like what we grew up on too.
00:25:23It was like summer camp.
00:25:25It was saturated with television.
00:25:26It was like fun, dressing up, the beat nickname.
00:25:29Yeah, every night was a new thing being.
00:25:32Channel.
00:25:33It was very mysterious.
00:25:34It wasn't exactly clear what Club 57 was.
00:25:38It was completely under the radar.
00:25:41I became Kenny's girlfriend for about two years.
00:25:46He eventually took me down there because finding it was very difficult.
00:25:50It was in a church, so you could actually look for it and not realize that that's where you were supposed to be going for a long time.
00:25:58It was a petri dish for experimenting with an audience that was supportive.
00:26:21Uh, and you didn't have to worry about doing something terrible and then you'd get bad reviews or ruin your career because there was no career.
00:26:32There was no money.
00:26:34I'm just so excited ever since I came to New York.
00:26:37Well, I just never thought I'd find myself here.
00:26:40Well, well, back on the farm, I used to always dream about being some kind of animal, but I never thought I'd be a bunny.
00:26:47We will have wonderful entertainment for all you friends out there.
00:27:00Well, the great thing about Club 57 was that it really was this incubator of talent and that there were no boundaries.
00:27:08And that whole punk aesthetic of do it yourself and you can do anything prevailed.
00:27:19So, people ended up taking to the stage like a duck takes to water and creating performance art
00:27:24kind of in the style of the Dadaists that everyone had studied in art school
00:27:29but also with a nod towards Andy Warhol and the happenings of the 60s
00:27:34and then just incorporating other elements that made it our own.
00:27:41Kenny was always in the middle of that.
00:27:49That was our whole life. It was party all night, go out all night to clubs
00:27:55and, you know, then we'd get up somehow in the morning and go to school
00:28:00and then, you know, do the whole thing all over again.
00:28:03We went out every single night.
00:28:04We just created a family where we felt we were understood and accepted for who we are.
00:28:22Kenny was very, very much part of the New York club scene
00:28:36and that club scene evolved into an art scene.
00:28:41That was a very important move that happened, that the club scene become an art scene.
00:28:52To boil Kenny down, the word would be compulsion.
00:28:57You could not take Kenny away from the paint.
00:28:59You go to the studio, you can see it's just that he's fucking compulsive, you know.
00:29:03And you could see that in Kenny.
00:29:06Some people call it genius, you know,
00:29:08and a lot of people like to pass that compulsion off as genius.
00:29:12And I guess you could say in Kenny's case, probably, that is a genius.
00:29:15Sometimes I start with an image and then work around that.
00:29:27And sometimes, like on these paintings over here, I'm just cleaning my brushes
00:29:32and I let the drips and I let them form a background
00:29:36or maybe I let them, I make a weird shape
00:29:41and then it looks like something else and then I make into something else.
00:29:44There's a few different ways I started painting.
00:29:47And just everything naturally evolved by itself.
00:29:51And it's just a mixture of everything.
00:30:01I really felt that all the Kenny stuff was like not of this earth, you know,
00:30:05like his stuff came from another planet.
00:30:09Kenny had his own unique, unique world to present to us.
00:30:14I know our viewers are, like, really anxious.
00:30:31They're all writing in.
00:30:32They want to hear about Jetsonism.
00:30:34What is Jetsonism?
00:30:36Well, um, Jetsonism is a part of the whole religion of Hanna-Barbarism.
00:30:44And, um, the Jetsonism section is the Nirvana part,
00:30:48the really fun heaven part where you get to go.
00:30:52Uh-huh, uh-huh.
00:30:52And that entails, I understand, I read your thing
00:30:55and it's something about the nuclear holocaust about to consume us all.
00:31:04Well, it's on our minds, definitely, you know.
00:31:07Uh-huh.
00:31:07It's definitely on the minds of everyone.
00:31:09We live in a world in which the great powers have poised and aimed at each other
00:31:15horrible missiles of destruction, nuclear weapons
00:31:19that can in a matter of minutes arrive in each other's country and destroy
00:31:24virtually the civilized world we live in.
00:31:28There is no substitute for victory.
00:31:31A lot of the artwork, particularly Kenny's,
00:31:36was obsessed with this concept of nuclear annihilation.
00:31:41The feeling of me and my friends and the New York club scene
00:31:45was that we were just about to explode.
00:31:49And so it was actually, let's party now
00:31:53and just have as much fun as we can
00:31:56because it's all going to be over tomorrow.
00:31:58I, I don't know what to do.
00:32:03I have nothing to believe in.
00:32:10This stop, are you confused?
00:32:13With Club 57, with some of those energies going on downtown,
00:32:17there was a lot of infantilism.
00:32:21There was a lot of regressive, really childish behavior
00:32:24that really, you know, you could push it so far
00:32:28but in, in ways
00:32:30where absurdity could be embraced
00:32:32beyond just experimenting.
00:32:36I think that there was a reason for that.
00:32:38It was sort of, you know,
00:32:39we were promised a, a great world
00:32:42and then all of a sudden it was like
00:32:44Raoul Freygan and whatever.
00:32:46It was all this, you know,
00:32:47it was, it wasn't the Jetsons.
00:32:49A lot of people don't take jokey art seriously.
00:32:59It's not what he's depicting so much
00:33:01as the style of the depiction.
00:33:05I suppose you could say
00:33:06he's a little adolescent
00:33:07or nostalgic for adolescence
00:33:11or a different time
00:33:12when things were a little less troubled
00:33:15or complicated.
00:33:16you know, their fantasies.
00:33:20It was fun.
00:33:21It wasn't meant to be taken seriously
00:33:23but it was done very seriously.
00:33:26I mean, they were serious
00:33:27about what they were doing
00:33:28and it was communicating
00:33:29to a lot of people.
00:33:32You can't beat abstract expressionism
00:33:36for being a beautiful decoration
00:33:38in a bank lobby
00:33:39or maybe the waiting room
00:33:40in a hospital.
00:33:41You can't beat that
00:33:42because it doesn't say anything.
00:33:44it's calm and it's tranquil
00:33:45and it, you know,
00:33:47it doesn't violate the environment.
00:33:50Like one of Kenny's paintings
00:33:52or one of mine
00:33:52would challenge the environment.
00:33:55So it would be very challenging
00:33:56to an environment.
00:34:02Oh, look, another heart.
00:34:08Ooh.
00:34:08Ooh.
00:34:14Ooh.
00:34:16There.
00:34:17That's good, right?
00:34:20Ooh, maybe that...
00:34:22That looks good right there, huh?
00:34:25It has to be smaller.
00:34:26Oh, wow.
00:34:27Ooh.
00:34:28There we go.
00:34:32I knew that hole
00:34:34was meant for something.
00:34:35So is this...
00:34:36What do you consider
00:34:37serious art?
00:34:38This is serious art.
00:34:40To me,
00:34:41it's all serious.
00:34:42I wouldn't be doing it
00:34:43all the time
00:34:44if it wasn't serious.
00:34:45And some people
00:34:46don't like that.
00:34:47Because I've always
00:34:48had that thing.
00:34:49I'm like,
00:34:49people thought I was obnoxious
00:34:51because I probably was.
00:34:55But, you know,
00:34:56sometimes you just
00:34:56have to be yourself, right?
00:34:58And if you're screaming
00:34:59out all the time,
00:35:00and that's who you are
00:35:04and you do things loudly,
00:35:07what are you going to do?
00:35:08This one
00:35:38particular generation
00:35:39of artists,
00:35:40these were individuals
00:35:42who could dance.
00:35:45Who could dance.
00:35:48Whereas generation
00:35:49of artists before,
00:35:50they couldn't dance
00:35:51for jack shit.
00:35:53Big difference.
00:36:08And the first thing
00:36:10that happened
00:36:10was Jean-Michel
00:36:10became very rich
00:36:12and successful
00:36:12and all that.
00:36:13Kenny and him
00:36:14always had this
00:36:14weird thing going on.
00:36:17It was sort of
00:36:18love-hate,
00:36:19but he would sometimes
00:36:21have a bit of
00:36:22an attitude
00:36:23or like,
00:36:24Kenny just had
00:36:25a very unique
00:36:25kind of fun,
00:36:27loving,
00:36:27effervescent,
00:36:29happy-go-lucky
00:36:29personality.
00:36:31And perhaps
00:36:32that rubbed
00:36:32Jean the wrong way.
00:36:33and then Keith
00:36:35made it very,
00:36:36very big
00:36:37and all of a sudden
00:36:38he became rich,
00:36:39which was great for him.
00:36:40We were so happy
00:36:40for him and all.
00:36:41But Kenny was,
00:36:43he was like,
00:36:43moving,
00:36:44you know,
00:36:45heaven on earth.
00:36:46He was obsessed.
00:36:48He had to make it,
00:36:49otherwise, you know,
00:36:49he would be the one
00:36:50who didn't.
00:36:51they would just
00:36:52have this
00:36:52incredible energy.
00:36:54They were just
00:36:55absolutely
00:36:56hell-bent
00:36:58on making
00:36:59the next piece
00:36:59or making
00:37:00the next picture
00:37:01and that drive
00:37:03in a way
00:37:05was really,
00:37:06really about
00:37:06their own life.
00:37:07It wasn't any more
00:37:08about the group
00:37:09or the,
00:37:10you know,
00:37:10it stopped being
00:37:12so painful.
00:37:14I mean,
00:37:14everyone became
00:37:15like career
00:37:16exact or
00:37:17like everyone
00:37:18that was doing
00:37:19things then
00:37:19just did it
00:37:21start doing it
00:37:22like more professional
00:37:23and start.
00:37:24Yeah,
00:37:24we get older.
00:37:25We get tired
00:37:25of not having money
00:37:26after a while too.
00:37:27I mean,
00:37:27people did just,
00:37:29you know,
00:37:29people did.
00:37:29Yeah,
00:37:29when you see
00:37:30other people
00:37:30that are in your
00:37:31same group
00:37:32that are going
00:37:32places,
00:37:34you say,
00:37:35you know,
00:37:35I want to go there too.
00:37:36So everyone
00:37:37got real serious.
00:37:38Graffiti was so,
00:37:40so monumentally
00:37:42significant
00:37:43when you were
00:37:44in New York
00:37:44when it was
00:37:45really happening,
00:37:46when it was
00:37:46happening on the
00:37:47trains
00:37:47and when some
00:37:48of those artists
00:37:49were making
00:37:50the effort
00:37:51to get their
00:37:51work out
00:37:52on canvas
00:37:52and,
00:37:53you know,
00:37:53where they weren't
00:37:54just writing
00:37:55their names anymore.
00:37:56They were really
00:37:56trying to be artists.
00:37:57It was so,
00:37:58it was such
00:37:58an insanely
00:38:00powerful moment
00:38:03that any other
00:38:04artist was going
00:38:05to be affected
00:38:06by it.
00:38:07So Kenny,
00:38:07like Keith
00:38:08and a few other
00:38:09artists,
00:38:09became inspired
00:38:10and started
00:38:11doing work
00:38:11on the street.
00:38:12Now,
00:38:12it wasn't graffiti.
00:38:13It was like
00:38:14something which now
00:38:15that we have
00:38:15Banksy and
00:38:16Shepard Ferry
00:38:16and stuff like
00:38:17that,
00:38:17we can call it
00:38:17street art.
00:38:21It's all part
00:38:22of the philosophy
00:38:23that we all
00:38:24believe in this
00:38:25whole group of us
00:38:26that art was
00:38:27not only for
00:38:29the gallery wall,
00:38:30the museum wall.
00:38:31Art should be
00:38:32for everybody.
00:38:33With this generation
00:38:45coming along,
00:38:47they were already
00:38:48finding themselves
00:38:49in a landscape
00:38:50in New York
00:38:51whereby the streets
00:38:53were littered
00:38:54and yet,
00:38:55within that,
00:38:56they had the energy,
00:38:58the need,
00:38:59the desire,
00:39:00the original drive
00:39:01and also their
00:39:02motion,
00:39:03their ability
00:39:03of flexibility
00:39:04of working
00:39:05in the streets
00:39:07and then Kenny
00:39:08and working with him,
00:39:09the response
00:39:10was extraordinary
00:39:11and more importantly,
00:39:12even the Whitney
00:39:13Museum immediately
00:39:14responded so positively
00:39:16that they purchased
00:39:17one of the largest
00:39:18paintings
00:39:19that Kenny Scharf did.
00:39:20The main way
00:39:26to communicate
00:39:27was to get out
00:39:28on the streets
00:39:29and the message
00:39:30got out there
00:39:31and of course
00:39:32the attention came
00:39:33and then it started
00:39:35to unravel a bit
00:39:36when the success,
00:39:38the money,
00:39:39the fame,
00:39:40when the uptown world
00:39:41started paying attention
00:39:42to the downtown world.
00:39:43Some of that
00:39:44wonderful,
00:39:45naive idealism
00:39:46was lost.
00:39:47Times change a lot
00:40:06and to deal
00:40:07with success
00:40:08is not an easy thing.
00:40:09You know,
00:40:09people trade you
00:40:10so you become
00:40:11a commodity.
00:40:14The 80s
00:40:14became a very,
00:40:15you know,
00:40:16dark,
00:40:17and the drugs
00:40:17are getting
00:40:18very heavy.
00:40:19Everybody thinks
00:40:20of the 80s
00:40:20as this happy,
00:40:22crazy,
00:40:25fun.
00:40:25It was none
00:40:26of that.
00:40:27was not a big deal
00:40:36of that.
00:40:37It was none
00:40:38of that.
00:40:39I'd say
00:40:39they'd love to see
00:40:41that fly,
00:40:46fly,
00:40:47fail,
00:40:48find.
00:40:48I'd love to see
00:40:51Bruno was my good friend, still is, he's going down to Brazil.
00:41:16So I said, oh, you know what, that would be perfect, I'm going to go down to Brazil.
00:41:19And then we took a plane from Rio to Salvador, we were going there for carnival, and then
00:41:23we got on the plane, and I saw her sitting in the front, and I looked at her, and she
00:41:29looked at me, and I smiled, and she smiled back, and that was it, I met her on the plane.
00:41:35Bruno was really jealous because we were smitten.
00:41:39Next thing I knew, I was off on a honeymoon with her.
00:41:42I don't know, I abandoned Bruno, and the two of us went to this, uh, incredible place
00:41:49in the middle of nowhere called Canoa Quebrada.
00:41:53And then, like, oh, literally two weeks later, she's, like, asking me to have her baby, and
00:42:00I'm agreeing to it.
00:42:01And then, like, in retrospect, it's insane, and it is, but we have Xena, so no regrets.
00:42:11With this young lady, in a hut on the water, with the Amazon jungle, three feet behind him,
00:42:22no neighbors, no roads there, no electricity, and no telephone.
00:42:31He bought that land.
00:42:33It's important to know that background, because not too many artists did that.
00:42:38And he went back there, and he made many paintings there.
00:42:42So there's a background to this adventure, there's a reality to these colors, and all
00:42:48of these things going on here.
00:42:50And that is what is the magic with Kenny.
00:42:53I'm in love with nature, and I'm embracing the beauty of nature, and the beauty of painting,
00:43:13actual paint, colors, that whole thing.
00:43:17I, you know, love nature.
00:43:19That is my religion, really.
00:43:21I mean, I think nature is God, I guess, you know.
00:43:36I seem to have a lack of warm colors, right?
00:43:39It's all, like, screens, and...
00:43:41Here's one.
00:43:46I travel everywhere, from all over the world, and I found the best trash.
00:43:52That's the only reason I go there, yeah.
00:43:55It's because it's the best trash.
00:43:56Where?
00:43:57Bahia.
00:43:59That's right?
00:44:00Do you have a house there?
00:44:01Yeah, I got it, because the trash on the beach is like no other.
00:44:05I mean, really.
00:44:09So, you went to Brazil, and got, what did you just gather, what do you do?
00:44:17I clean the beach.
00:44:19I clean the beach first in front of our house, and then I start going north and south along
00:44:29the beach, and then I go to, like, the riverbeds, where the rivers, like, run into the water.
00:44:37Yeah.
00:44:38Because that's where all the stuff comes out.
00:44:41And I take a lot of the garbage.
00:44:46I've been doing it probably for about 30 years.
00:44:54Okay.
00:44:55Around.
00:44:59You look like you're, like, having a fire.
00:45:03I am, actually.
00:45:07There.
00:45:08How's that look?
00:45:12Does that look gorgeous?
00:45:13There.
00:45:16That.
00:45:21Wow.
00:45:23Yeah.
00:45:24Yeah.
00:45:25You can't, you can't drag the water, or you don't see it.
00:45:28I'm seeing it.
00:45:29So, okay.
00:45:30Okay.
00:45:30One, two, three.
00:45:34Bahia, we're a hotel.
00:45:38Where the family comes to play.
00:45:42Where the sunshine comes your way.
00:45:47Bahia Motor Hotel in Mission Bay.
00:45:53Yeah.
00:45:55Yeah.
00:45:55Cabo.
00:45:56Want to do it again?
00:45:57I think when Keith was around Kenny, Keith was sillier than he was, than he was around
00:46:02other people, as we all were around Kenny, because Kenny just brought it out in you.
00:46:07They were both getting more serious, because the whole art world and their careers were more
00:46:14serious than they had been when they started out, but, um, playing the whole art world game.
00:46:19But, Kenny helped keep Keith's sillier side going.
00:46:24You know, we all were at the tail end of the baby boomer generation, so we'd grown up with
00:46:38Vietnam, but we were too young to have been drafted into it.
00:46:43So, almost breathing a sigh of relief, wow, you know, at least we didn't have a war.
00:46:49And then the threat of nuclear annihilation was always hanging over you, particularly after
00:46:56Reagan got elected.
00:46:59But we never dreamed that there would be this microbe that would be our Vietnam, our hydrogen
00:47:06bomb.
00:47:07And it really destroyed the community.
00:47:18Scientists at the National Centers for Disease Control in Atlanta today released the results
00:47:23of a study, which shows that the lifestyle of some male homosexuals has triggered an epidemic.
00:47:29It is about health, about attitudes, about looking at life in these United States.
00:47:34For the first time, the number of AIDS cases passed the 100,000 mark.
00:47:37There's a new AIDS death every half hour.
00:47:40The federal government has been accused of discrimination by lack of funding for research.
00:47:43The fact that it has taken the president five years to begin to even address this problem
00:47:48publicly demonstrates that this administration hasn't given it the level of commitment that
00:47:52it deserves.
00:47:55It's very, very scary because nobody knew how it was transmitted, you know.
00:48:00And on one hand, you don't want to, you didn't want to, like, reject your friends who
00:48:03were ill, but then you were, like, thinking, well, am I going to get it if I touch them?
00:48:07AIDS killed off a good third of the creative energy of that time and forced us all to grow up.
00:48:17I thought it was, like, how many years ago?
00:48:44Well, 30 years ago.
00:48:4730 years ago.
00:48:481990.
00:48:49It's almost 30 years ago.
00:48:51It's like yesterday.
00:48:53When I start to talk about it, you know.
00:48:57Yeah, it's hard.
00:49:00So he was lying there.
00:49:03He couldn't talk.
00:49:07He couldn't open his eyes.
00:49:09He was very agitated.
00:49:10His whole body was kind of, like, he was fighting it, you know.
00:49:17He was fighting, dying.
00:49:20And I sat, I was alone.
00:49:23There was no one else around.
00:49:24I sat there with him and I held his hand and I said,
00:49:26I said, you should, time for you to relax and just let it go.
00:49:32I said, you, everything you've done, everything you've done will go on and be more and more influential and powerful.
00:49:49And you have done an amazing thing and you can really let it go and relax.
00:49:56And he did.
00:49:58I could feel his whole body just relax and I knew he hurt me.
00:50:06I told him I loved him.
00:50:11And then, you know, I left and then he died.
00:50:14You know, it was the end and Kenny had babies, you know.
00:50:22We all have children.
00:50:24So it was a very strange way of living.
00:50:29Sometimes it would be just so harsh and so cruel and so depressing.
00:50:36And then you come home and then there are these children and they are innocent and full of life and full of joy.
00:50:49And really they helped me in a major way of getting through that horrible time.
00:51:06And then you come home and then you can ride all night away.
00:51:13Arabia, prayer, prayer, prayer, prayer...
00:51:26And now you enjoy it.
00:51:31So, amor, what about you?
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00:53:28and then it stopped coming
00:53:30I think about
00:53:32sometimes what would have happened
00:53:34if we had stayed in New York
00:53:35and kind of like pushed through
00:53:37I almost kind of feel like it would have
00:53:40been more beneficial
00:53:42for him to actually face
00:53:44some of the things that
00:53:45were coming up inside of him
00:53:47instead of running away
00:53:49I have a
00:53:52balancing act between
00:53:53being a
00:53:55responsible adult
00:53:57and
00:53:58the Peter Pan
00:54:02syndrome because I just feel
00:54:04like life is so much about
00:54:05the moment so I want every moment
00:54:08fun and beautiful
00:54:09that's not really the way life works
00:54:12no it's not, it's not reality
00:54:14that's the fear of growing up
00:54:24because reality
00:54:26is reality so you don't have to give up the play
00:54:28in order to be serious
00:54:30you don't have to give up the play
00:54:32in order to grow up
00:54:33Kenny was so disorganized
00:54:36he could never find
00:54:38his checkbook
00:54:39his passport
00:54:40you know
00:54:41and he was
00:54:42it was getting to be a problem
00:54:43and I said look Kenny
00:54:44I'll help you out
00:54:45like let me help you get organized
00:54:47and he had gotten a studio
00:54:49so he needed help
00:54:51so during that time
00:54:53Kenny's
00:54:54if you look at his work
00:54:55during that time
00:54:56there's a lot of
00:54:57kind of dark
00:54:58paintings
00:54:59I'm into pop art
00:55:08but the reason I feel
00:55:10it's different now
00:55:11than the pop art of the 60s
00:55:13is pop art from the 60s
00:55:16was more of a stance
00:55:19like from far away
00:55:20what I'm doing
00:55:21is more taking these things
00:55:24out of my own subconscious
00:55:25that I grew up on
00:55:26and so it's kind of
00:55:29surrealism in a way
00:55:32that not surrealism
00:55:33but just natural
00:55:34organic
00:55:35just from my own imagination
00:55:37at a certain point
00:55:42those of us
00:55:42who are overly identified
00:55:44with the East Village
00:55:45look at all that stuff
00:55:47that helped us
00:55:47there was that 80s moment
00:55:48where we were all pushed
00:55:50probably more than
00:55:52we should have been
00:55:53you know
00:55:54we probably weren't
00:55:54all that great
00:55:55we got a lot of hype
00:55:57and a lot of love
00:55:58and it was very helpful
00:55:59for us to have that
00:56:00so young in life
00:56:01but conversely
00:56:02when that moment
00:56:03was over
00:56:04it was
00:56:06it was passe
00:56:07and so
00:56:09what was
00:56:10once a badge
00:56:11of honor
00:56:13and recognition
00:56:14became a stigmata
00:56:15so then
00:56:16he had to deal
00:56:17with a really
00:56:18really rough period
00:56:20where I don't think
00:56:20that guy could have
00:56:21gotten run over
00:56:22by an ice cream truck
00:56:23and on a nice day
00:56:24in Soho
00:56:25kind of thing
00:56:25he really
00:56:26his market dried up
00:56:28whatever
00:56:29the interest dried up
00:56:31he was sort of
00:56:31like yesterday's news
00:56:32I remember someone once said
00:56:54someone came down
00:56:55from New York
00:56:56and they were like
00:56:58oh Kenny Sharp
00:56:59I thought you were dead
00:57:00and I was like
00:57:01almost like
00:57:03not only I thought
00:57:03you were dead
00:57:04but you're supposed
00:57:05to be dead
00:57:05I did internalize
00:57:07all these feelings
00:57:08of failure
00:57:09of being a has-been
00:57:11I didn't know
00:57:13really what to do
00:57:15I don't really know
00:57:16anything else
00:57:17you know
00:57:19I'm not like
00:57:19a great businessman
00:57:20so the only way
00:57:21I knew how to make money
00:57:22was making art
00:57:23now Kenny's
00:57:34in the same boat
00:57:35with me
00:57:35to a certain extent
00:57:36and here's the boat
00:57:37we're in
00:57:38after the second world war
00:57:41New York
00:57:42become the center
00:57:43of the world art capital
00:57:45the mode
00:57:46that it used
00:57:47to do it with
00:57:47was abstract expressionism
00:57:49it's a new
00:57:51fresh world
00:57:52and Jackson Pollock
00:57:55was the premier star
00:57:57of that
00:57:57there was a whole
00:57:58plethora of other
00:57:59characters that pulled
00:58:00in on that
00:58:01just like they did
00:58:01the graffiti movement
00:58:02so this reigned
00:58:05for a long long time
00:58:07for 30 years or so
00:58:08this philosophy
00:58:09see
00:58:09and
00:58:10you would think
00:58:13well pop art
00:58:13would be the breakthrough
00:58:14but pop art
00:58:15immediately
00:58:16took on the aspect
00:58:17of being
00:58:18appropriation art
00:58:21so you weren't
00:58:22free there either
00:58:23see
00:58:23but with graffiti
00:58:25that Kenny was in
00:58:27you could slip back
00:58:29into a form of realism
00:58:30a cartoon form
00:58:32of realism
00:58:32see
00:58:33so me and Kenny
00:58:34have this brotherhood
00:58:35of being
00:58:36cartoon oriented
00:58:38see
00:58:38and it's
00:58:40still to this day
00:58:41disregarded
00:58:42still to this
00:58:43fucking day
00:58:44disregarded
00:58:45as sophisticated art
00:58:47cartoony
00:58:49sometimes
00:58:50makes things
00:58:51more accessible
00:58:52to more people
00:58:53you can
00:58:54get away
00:58:55with things
00:58:56in animation
00:58:56that you couldn't
00:58:57with real people
00:58:58you can say
00:59:00and do
00:59:01and depict
00:59:01situations
00:59:03and people
00:59:05and be very
00:59:06straightforward
00:59:06in your criticism
00:59:08and your social critique
00:59:09but
00:59:10somehow
00:59:11confined to a canvas
00:59:12it loses a dimension
00:59:15somehow
00:59:15I don't know
00:59:17that doesn't make
00:59:18any sense
00:59:19but
00:59:19that's how it feels
00:59:21it doesn't leave
00:59:22the viewer
00:59:22a lot of room
00:59:23to exercise
00:59:24his or her own
00:59:26imagination
00:59:27I think all the things
00:59:30which make
00:59:31Kenny's
00:59:32work
00:59:33important
00:59:34and attractive
00:59:35there are also
00:59:36reasons for
00:59:37skeptics
00:59:38to say
00:59:39well this is
00:59:40not important
00:59:40you know
00:59:41it's not profound
00:59:42I think
00:59:44many artists
00:59:45whose work
00:59:46is
00:59:47appealing
00:59:49superficially
00:59:50appealing
00:59:51it's easy
00:59:52to take that
00:59:53appeal
00:59:53and turn it around
00:59:54and use it
00:59:56as a justification
00:59:57to dismiss
00:59:58the work
00:59:59I think
01:00:05I have a syndrome
01:00:06it's a syndrome
01:00:08where you see
01:00:09faces
01:00:09in everything
01:00:10you know
01:00:11when I look
01:00:12at houses
01:00:12the windows
01:00:14and then
01:00:14I just see
01:00:15faces everywhere
01:00:16when I look
01:00:17at
01:00:18flowers
01:00:20whatever
01:00:20you know
01:00:21I'm always
01:00:21seeing faces
01:00:22eyeballs
01:00:23nose
01:00:23and mouth
01:00:24I'm always
01:00:24making faces
01:00:25I think
01:00:26maybe
01:00:26I think
01:00:27that
01:00:28everything
01:00:29is like
01:00:30a person
01:00:31in a way
01:00:31so
01:00:32I think
01:00:34everything
01:00:34has a personality
01:00:35and that's
01:00:37why I see
01:00:38faces
01:00:38like
01:00:38it kind of
01:00:39conveys
01:00:40that personality
01:00:40and
01:00:41not only
01:00:42every
01:00:42living thing
01:00:44but every
01:00:44even
01:00:45inanimate object
01:00:46to me
01:00:47has personality
01:00:49well
01:00:55yeah
01:00:56I came up
01:00:56with the idea
01:00:57I was going
01:00:58to do
01:00:58an animation
01:00:59and pretty much
01:01:00move to LA
01:01:01to do it
01:01:02I thought
01:01:04well this is
01:01:05I'm
01:01:06it's not like
01:01:08I wanted to
01:01:09stop
01:01:10being in the art world
01:01:11I just thought
01:01:12I need to branch out
01:01:13so that was my
01:01:14a big dream
01:01:15of mine
01:01:16and I realized
01:01:17that I want
01:01:19to pursue it
01:01:20and I did
01:01:21we moved to LA
01:01:23and
01:01:24he came here
01:01:26with that dream
01:01:27that he was going
01:01:27to be able
01:01:28to make it happen
01:01:29he actually worked
01:01:31with Cartoon Network
01:01:32the cartoon
01:01:33did happen
01:01:34I think he played
01:01:36a couple
01:01:36of times
01:01:38in Cartoon Network
01:01:39but it wasn't
01:01:39really
01:01:40you know
01:01:41it didn't
01:01:42you didn't
01:01:43really make it
01:01:44you know
01:01:51if you can hang on
01:01:52by your fingernails
01:01:52that is
01:01:53the creative process
01:01:55all you need
01:01:56are the fingernails
01:01:57right
01:01:57you're still
01:01:58hanging on
01:01:59most people
01:02:00what is it
01:02:02the odds
01:02:02of even having
01:02:03a successful career
01:02:04it's
01:02:05infinitesimal
01:02:06you know
01:02:12there are a lot
01:02:12of people
01:02:13that do it
01:02:13for a minute
01:02:14and a half
01:02:14and Kitty's
01:02:15been doing it
01:02:15for 40 years
01:02:16artists have
01:02:18a hard time
01:02:19whether it's
01:02:19the beginning
01:02:20of their career
01:02:20the middle
01:02:21of their career
01:02:21the end
01:02:22of their career
01:02:22no one escapes
01:02:24but if you make
01:02:26your art
01:02:26from love
01:02:26you're fine
01:02:27I'm not gonna lie
01:02:29I was on the 15 bus
01:02:30going across
01:02:31and I seen him
01:02:32just working right here
01:02:33and I'm just like
01:02:34yo that's
01:02:34that's too cool
01:02:35like I need
01:02:36I need that
01:02:37I need that
01:02:38I need that
01:02:38I need anything
01:02:39okay before I do it
01:02:41do you want
01:02:41like a monster
01:02:42or like happy
01:02:43happy
01:02:43it's all about
01:02:44happy and love
01:02:45happy
01:02:46okay
01:02:54check it out
01:02:55you got it
01:02:57there you all go
01:02:59smiley face
01:03:00oh big joke
01:03:04bring it in
01:03:05bring it in
01:03:05bring it in
01:03:07something very important
01:03:08that's going on
01:03:08is this
01:03:09increasing
01:03:10merger
01:03:12of progressive
01:03:14popular culture
01:03:15and fine art culture
01:03:16so
01:03:18Kenny was in the
01:03:19forefront of that
01:03:20and
01:03:20we see that
01:03:22this is
01:03:22really defining
01:03:23progressive culture
01:03:25today more and more
01:03:26there's a group
01:03:28that resists that
01:03:29and
01:03:30Kenny
01:03:31as much as any
01:03:32other artist
01:03:33is
01:03:34fusing the two
01:03:35together
01:03:36art's always done
01:04:02such a good job
01:04:04at speaking to such
01:04:06a small number
01:04:07of people
01:04:07Kenny
01:04:08is a real
01:04:09populist
01:04:10he's happy with it
01:04:11being on the street
01:04:12but for people to go
01:04:13like
01:04:13wow that's kind of
01:04:15cool
01:04:15what's that
01:04:16advertising
01:04:16it's like
01:04:17oh nothing
01:04:18it's advertising
01:04:19free thinking
01:04:20I mean
01:04:20what a subversive
01:04:22message to put out
01:04:22in our culture
01:04:23well I think
01:04:25that street art
01:04:26does not have
01:04:27to be filtered
01:04:27through
01:04:29an academic
01:04:30power system
01:04:32or a critical
01:04:34art
01:04:35power scene
01:04:35it is
01:04:37right
01:04:37what it is
01:04:38and it's direct
01:04:38to the people
01:04:39yeah I mean
01:04:40it's great
01:04:40when you make
01:04:41work on the street
01:04:42there's no red tape
01:04:42there's no committee
01:04:43there's no like
01:04:44front
01:04:46like there's
01:04:46it's just
01:04:47you have it
01:04:48you think about it
01:04:49you leave your house
01:04:49it comes to fruition
01:04:51you see it the next day
01:04:53I like cartoons
01:04:54because I think of them
01:04:55sort of like
01:04:56as actors
01:04:56that never get old
01:04:57and you can kind of
01:04:58create these
01:04:59compositions with them
01:05:00and you know
01:05:01like in different
01:05:02countries
01:05:03you can
01:05:03you can not
01:05:04speak the same
01:05:05language
01:05:05but you could
01:05:06have grown up
01:05:07on the same
01:05:07thing
01:05:07he's guilty
01:05:09of engaging
01:05:11in the F word
01:05:12fun
01:05:14and so
01:05:15you see that
01:05:16instantly
01:05:17in his work
01:05:18he's not out of
01:05:19control
01:05:19sometimes he has
01:05:20this out of
01:05:21control
01:05:21appearance
01:05:22to his work
01:05:23oh but it's
01:05:24always in control
01:05:25at the same time
01:05:26and so
01:05:28there's a
01:05:29definite discipline
01:05:30that you see
01:05:31in his work
01:05:33with each one
01:05:34of his pictures
01:05:35he's always
01:05:36kind of done
01:05:37the things
01:05:38he wanted to do
01:05:38and not really
01:05:39played along
01:05:41you know
01:05:41there's
01:05:41a lot of times
01:05:42there's like
01:05:43a comfort zone
01:05:43within the art world
01:05:44that a lot of people
01:05:45don't want to
01:05:45move past
01:05:46and
01:05:48another thing's
01:05:49exclusivity
01:05:50you know
01:05:51he'll do a museum show
01:05:52but then he'll go
01:05:52and paint all these
01:05:53cars for people
01:05:54that he meets
01:05:55randomly
01:05:55you know
01:05:55that show up
01:05:56and so
01:05:58that might work
01:05:59against
01:06:00you know
01:06:01the sort of
01:06:01preciousness
01:06:02of what a lot
01:06:03of people like
01:06:04to sort of
01:06:05pigeonhole art
01:06:06into
01:06:06but at the same
01:06:08time he's reaching
01:06:08a whole different
01:06:09group of people
01:06:10and I think
01:06:11for him
01:06:12that's what's fun
01:06:12that's what's
01:06:13interesting
01:06:13and that's
01:06:15what he goes
01:06:15towards
01:06:16I get included
01:06:19a lot
01:06:20in the street
01:06:20art type
01:06:21of place
01:06:22of exhibitions
01:06:23and things
01:06:24where I'm
01:06:25it's me
01:06:26and a lot
01:06:27of I guess
01:06:29more traditional
01:06:29type of graffiti
01:06:30graffiti art
01:06:32in a way
01:06:34I weirdly feel
01:06:35like I am
01:06:36the kind
01:06:37of clowny
01:06:38gay element
01:06:39the only
01:06:41clowny gay element
01:06:41that exists
01:06:42I actually
01:06:43never really
01:06:44felt like
01:06:44I belonged
01:06:45in any
01:06:45of the
01:06:46defined groups
01:06:47which I still
01:06:49don't
01:06:50belong
01:06:52in any
01:06:53particular
01:06:53group
01:06:55I'm not
01:06:56that
01:06:57and I'm not
01:06:57that
01:06:58and I'm not
01:06:58that
01:06:58I'm kind of
01:06:59like all of it
01:07:00and there isn't
01:07:01really a group
01:07:01for all of it
01:07:02I think the kids
01:07:03call it now
01:07:04don't they call it
01:07:06fluid
01:07:07isn't that
01:07:08what the
01:07:09younger kids
01:07:10call
01:07:10sexuality
01:07:12your sexuality
01:07:13is fluid
01:07:14I'd say
01:07:18I'd say
01:07:18it was
01:07:18challenging
01:07:19for me
01:07:19when I was
01:07:20younger
01:07:20when I was
01:07:21still
01:07:21kind of
01:07:22questioning
01:07:23myself
01:07:23and I was
01:07:24concerned
01:07:24with
01:07:25what
01:07:27other people
01:07:28might
01:07:28think about
01:07:29me
01:07:29and now
01:07:30that I'm
01:07:30older
01:07:31I don't
01:07:32really care
01:07:32about that
01:07:34it's not
01:07:36easy
01:07:36living in
01:07:38this
01:07:38world
01:07:39it's not
01:07:41take a
01:07:44shelfie
01:07:44a shelfie
01:07:50take a
01:07:51shelfie
01:07:52or trashy
01:07:57well
01:07:59it wasn't
01:08:00really
01:08:00funny
01:08:01a
01:08:01shelfie
01:08:01all
01:08:05personal
01:08:06consumption
01:08:06and then
01:08:08it gets
01:08:08used
01:08:09in other
01:08:09stuff
01:08:09I'm
01:08:12obsessed
01:08:13with
01:08:14garbage
01:08:15I'm
01:08:16obsessed
01:08:16with
01:08:17plastic
01:08:20mostly
01:08:21plastic
01:08:21garbage
01:08:22the impact
01:08:23it has
01:08:23on
01:08:24our world
01:08:25there's
01:08:25hardly
01:08:26any place
01:08:26on the
01:08:27globe
01:08:27that you
01:08:29can go
01:08:29to
01:08:29where you
01:08:30won't
01:08:30see
01:08:30some
01:08:30kind
01:08:31of
01:08:31garbage
01:08:31some
01:08:32trash
01:08:33one
01:08:34of the
01:08:34things
01:08:34that I
01:08:34like
01:08:34to do
01:08:35is
01:08:35take
01:08:35this
01:08:35element
01:08:36that I
01:08:38find
01:08:38dangerous
01:08:39and
01:08:40turning it
01:08:41into
01:08:41something
01:08:42that I
01:08:43find
01:08:43attractive
01:08:43that
01:08:45is
01:08:46interesting
01:08:46to me
01:08:47I love
01:08:48the idea
01:08:49of
01:08:49taking
01:08:50the
01:08:52discarded
01:08:53the
01:08:53unwanted
01:08:54and turning
01:08:55them into
01:08:55something
01:08:56else
01:08:56yeah he's
01:08:57got a
01:08:58particular
01:08:58attraction
01:08:59to
01:09:00cast off
01:09:01items
01:09:02and he
01:09:03likes these
01:09:04old
01:09:05devices
01:09:06give him
01:09:06a
01:09:07princess
01:09:07telephone
01:09:07and it's
01:09:08going to
01:09:08become
01:09:08something
01:09:09else
01:09:36and it's
01:09:36going to
01:09:37on
01:09:38me
01:09:38to
01:09:39and
01:09:40to
01:09:40Grazie per la visione
01:10:10Grazie per la visione
01:10:40Grazie per la visione
01:11:10Grazie per la visione
01:11:40Grazie per la visione
01:12:10Grazie per la visione
01:12:40Grazie per la visione
01:13:10Grazie per la visione
01:13:40Grazie per la visione
01:14:10Grazie per la visione
01:14:40Grazie per la visione
01:15:10Grazie per la visione
01:15:40Grazie per la visione
01:15:42Grazie per la visione
01:15:44Grazie per la visione
01:16:14Grazie per la visione
01:16:44Grazie per la visione
01:16:46Grazie per la visione
01:17:16Grazie per la visione
01:17:46Grazie per la visione
01:18:16Grazie per la visione
01:18:46Grazie per la visione
01:19:16Grazie per la visione
01:19:46Grazie per la visione
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