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Puteri Munajjah Az-Zahraa Azhar shares her journey from learning chess at four to becoming Malaysia’s third Women International Master.
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00:00People forget you've got five goals, but title, it sticks with you forever.
00:04But would you consider yourself competitive in many other aspects of your life or generally competitive?
00:08No, I'm just competitive in chess.
00:10Really?
00:10Yeah, it's not about bridging the gap, but it's just giving more chances for women players out there.
00:17For me, I love to join the mixed event because I think with men, I can get the complicated positions.
00:23You see the difference?
00:24Yeah, difference in way of thinking.
00:26Which dream event are you most eager to compete in?
00:30Women's Grand Prix. It is hard.
00:32Is it in the making? How soon do you think?
00:35Can't see for sure.
00:36Okay.
00:44Welcome back to another episode of Life Confessions.
00:48And today we're going to be speaking to the FIDE Chess title holder of Women International Master.
00:54With us today is Putri Munajah Azhara Azhar.
00:59Thanks for joining us.
01:00Thank you for inviting me.
01:01I can imagine you've had a lot of conversations about chess.
01:06And a lot of people now know you as this amazing person who holds this title, right?
01:12Yeah.
01:12And you started chess at the age of four, learning from your mother before your father's training.
01:18How did those early home lessons shape your passion and approach?
01:23I think it started from inside me.
01:26Like I look at chess as something that I hold dearly in my heart.
01:30Even when I started chess, my mom was the one that noticed me that I can pay chess.
01:36For example, I can arrange the pieces.
01:39Even from that time, my dad, he was like,
01:41I'm not sure if she can arrange the pieces because he was focusing on my other siblings, which is my older siblings.
01:50But it's okay because they are older.
01:52So they have to get the attention more than me.
01:55And then my mom was the one that, okay, she knows that I can arrange the pieces.
02:02So she helped me to move the pieces.
02:05And then my dad took over after that.
02:08Right.
02:09Now, I think it's worth noting that your parents actually just seated off camera and they're looking at you with so much like pride.
02:15Like you can even tell in the way in their eyes that they're looking at you.
02:17It's good that you're facing this direction.
02:19I think you might be distracted if you saw the looks on their faces right now looking beaming.
02:24You know, earning the Women International Master Title in 2019 made you the third Malaysian ever to do so.
02:32What did achieving this represent for you personally?
02:35For me, to be honest, the reason why I was so eager to get this title was because of some failure that I faced back in 2011.
02:45I participated in Asian Plus H Group in Taraka, Indonesia.
02:51So during that time, I've got three goals.
02:55If I'm not mistaken, three goals, two silvers.
02:58But these achievements are not good enough because they're not giving me the title.
03:03They're all in another category like Rapid, Blitz.
03:07I was the Rapid Champion, the Blitz Champion.
03:09But for the standard event, I got fifth place, if I'm not mistaken.
03:16The sad part is not that because I didn't have the chance to get the title.
03:22But because on the last round, I was supposed to win the last round.
03:26Like I had to win the last round.
03:28I still remember her name.
03:29Like she's, yeah, I was supposed to win.
03:32And to be honest, the game was like, I'm, I had the advantage.
03:36Yeah, I had the advantage.
03:38But I somehow drew the game.
03:40So I missed my chance to get the, that time it was Women Vida Master title.
03:44Okay.
03:45So somehow that it, even though you, you get this five goals, but it does not equal to, to the title itself.
03:54Right.
03:55Like people forget you, you've got five goals, but title, it sticks with you forever till the end of your day.
04:03Right.
04:03Like, so I kind of like carrying it like in me, like some sort of disappointment.
04:12Yeah.
04:13Disappointment.
04:14It added up for years.
04:16And then like in 2019, my dad gave me the opportunity to participate in Eastern Asia age group.
04:23So that time I know, okay, they are offering Women International Master title.
04:28Right.
04:28So I know that, okay, this time I can't mess up.
04:33I need to do my best.
04:34I have to do something to correct my mistakes, to correct my past mistakes.
04:39Right.
04:40And then I've spent like a lot of hours.
04:43And I think for me, I think that the first event was like the reason why I've gotten my title now,
04:51because let's say if I got the WFM title, obviously I'm not going to like go to the event
04:57to get the WFM, so because the gap is just one, like there's CM, FM and IM.
05:06Okay.
05:06So there's just one stage difference.
05:09Right.
05:09So like, it's not that much of difference, but if I've gotten the WFM first, of course.
05:14You would have gone for this title.
05:15So yeah, I've heard, I'm not going to the WFM title.
05:19Yeah.
05:19So this achievement, like give me a sort of satisfaction, like, okay, this is, this is what
05:26it meant.
05:27Like some sort of reason why I didn't get the title back then.
05:32So many years before that, right?
05:34Yeah.
05:34Eight years.
05:35How did it feel when you achieved like the title?
05:40It feels like a heavy burden is off my chest.
05:44So it stayed with you, like that whole time, the thought that you were so close to getting
05:48that, the other title previously.
05:51And you said you trained, how was that training like?
05:54So like during that time, I haven't, I haven't joined my diploma studies after SPM.
06:01So I told my dad, okay, I'm, I want to take a gap year for a year to focus on chess.
06:07And by the time that event came, I'm already prepared.
06:12Yeah.
06:12And during the same year was also my first time winning the national championship.
06:17Wait for, that's shocking.
06:19That's amazing because you said you wanted to take a gap year.
06:23A lot of people, young people take gap years to travel, to find themselves, to take a break.
06:31You wanted a gap year to focus on chess.
06:35Yeah.
06:36Yeah.
06:37I mean, that must be unique among your friends.
06:40Even when you say it out loud, you know that it's very unique, right?
06:44Yeah.
06:44And you wanted it that much.
06:47Yeah, but it doesn't happen because of the COVID-19.
06:50Right.
06:50Yeah.
06:51Right.
06:52You're an amazing person right now.
06:53You peaked at a rating of 2,059 in February of 2022.
06:59What specific changes in your training or mindset do you credit for reaching that rating and how do you plan to climb higher if that is a part of your plan?
07:10My trainings, I think it's just the same, but I've been trained by my older brother.
07:15Okay.
07:16He's a Canadian master, Shaky Shazamir.
07:18Right.
07:19So, he gives me advice on how can I train even up until now.
07:23I still am training with him.
07:26So, during that time, thanks to COVID, of course, okay, I started my diploma.
07:33But then, it was online studies.
07:35There's no physical classes.
07:37So, I have a lot of extra time at home, which I spend to study chess.
07:42And then, in end of 2021, me and my sister, we went to Czech Republic for a tournament.
07:53It's Prague Open and Marienbad Open.
07:55Okay.
07:55So, these two tournaments are the ones that gave me the ratings that I needed.
08:00Wow.
08:01And in Marienbad Open, I've shared a second to fourth place with the other players.
08:09Right.
08:09Yeah.
08:11When you've got so many achievements under your belt because you've done an amazing job reaching this level, right?
08:20And it's been said that you describe yourself as a tactical player who enjoys sharp, complex positions.
08:27How did you develop this preference towards playing?
08:32So, I love to look at Grandmaster games, especially like streamings.
08:38Like, for example, like there are some big events.
08:41And then, there will be some Grandmasters, some title players, they will be streaming about them.
08:45They will be like commentating about the games.
08:48So, sometimes, I look at that and even look at some games.
08:53So, I noticed that some Grandmasters, they have like, they are following this static position.
08:59This positional position, which is, it's equal, but you don't have any tacticals behind.
09:06And I find that quite boring.
09:08Oh, interesting.
09:09Yeah, because it's like straightforward.
09:11It's really straightforward.
09:12And I don't find that to be enjoyable for me.
09:16Like, for myself, I like to see a position which is really unclear.
09:20And you try to solve it one by one.
09:23What's going on with this game?
09:25How much of that is dependent on the player that you're up against, though?
09:29Because when you start the game, and you are going up against various different opponents, right?
09:36So, when you choose this style of playing, do you constantly have to adapt?
09:43Or is it always the way that you play?
09:46I always have to adapt.
09:48Like, for me, personally, I try to know my opponents.
09:51Like, their style of plays.
09:53So, that's how I'm going to tackle them one by one.
09:57Wow.
09:58Apparently, training five to seven hours a day, that's what you were doing during your peak periods.
10:04And, of course, that requires so much discipline.
10:07How do you balance that regimen with academics and also, like, personal well-being, your own time?
10:13Is there such a thing that you had to do?
10:15So, like I told you, it was during my gap year.
10:19So, I don't have any academics.
10:21I don't have anything in my mind.
10:23So, I can focus 100%.
10:25And for me, I can't do a lot of things at once.
10:27So, when I get that chance, I just play chess, like, 50 games per day.
10:33Wow.
10:34Yeah, and then I try to analyze my games.
10:37And also, other than chess, I also run.
10:40Okay.
10:40Yeah.
10:41I mean, it goes without saying that you're a very competitive person.
10:44But especially, it shows itself in chess.
10:47But would you consider yourself competitive in many other aspects of your life or generally competitive?
10:52No, I'm just competitive in chess.
10:54Really?
10:54Yeah.
10:55What is it about chess that brings this out of you?
10:58What do you think makes you this competitive chess player?
11:01Because, like, when I win some tournaments, it gives me some sort of satisfaction.
11:06And I like that feeling.
11:07And you also mentioned that your siblings play chess, right?
11:09Yeah.
11:10Are you competitive with each other?
11:12No, but when we train, that's the time where we're getting competitive.
11:18Yeah, but not really.
11:20Oh.
11:20And your parents are involved or were involved initially with your training as well, as you've mentioned, right?
11:27How much of the way you play was dependent on that?
11:30Well, obviously, it depends a lot, especially for the basic chess, like the simple basic theory for beginners.
11:41Because the foundation, it adds up.
11:44Like, you can't go straight away to the higher level, but your foundations are broken.
11:50Now, you know, a 2023 study highlighted gender bias as a barrier for girls in chess or women in chess.
11:59What biases have you faced and how did you navigate them to succeed?
12:03Did you feel them as you were when you compete?
12:07Okay, fortunately, in Malaysia, we don't have that gender bias.
12:10And even like there is Malaysian chess championship, there is the open and women's section.
12:15So you can decide whether I wanted to join the women or open section.
12:20But for now, I'm just joining the women's section.
12:23Okay.
12:23Yeah.
12:24Is that a choice that you've made?
12:25Why did you make that choice?
12:26Because for the women's section, I needed to become the champion to play, to represent Malaysia in international tournaments.
12:36Yeah.
12:37And women's tournaments are said to aim to boost participation.
12:42But some say they may reinforce segregation.
12:45Why should women and men play separately, right?
12:48Do they bridge the gap or do they perpetuate inequality, in your opinion?
12:53Because it's such a cerebral game.
12:56There's no physical advantage that one player has over the other.
13:01So what are your thoughts on that?
13:03It's not about the bridging the gap, but it's just giving more chances for women players out there.
13:09Like imagine if there is like, for example, the world championship.
13:12If it's just men, even, I think at most, like there's, there's not going to be a lot of females to be in the open sections.
13:21Okay.
13:21Women, they can be as good as men, but psychologically, we do have a lot of things to think of.
13:29Like, like for example, like I told you, 24 is considered to be not that young because women, once you reach certain age, you have a lot of things to turn off.
13:37For example, your families, your, um, your career.
13:42Do you yourself participate in both, um, women's chastonement as well as, um, mixed?
13:49Yeah, mixed as well.
13:50Right.
13:50Do you have a preference yourself?
13:52For me, I love to join the mixed event because I think like with men, I can get the, um, unique position, the complicated positions.
14:03You see the difference?
14:04Yeah.
14:05Interesting.
14:05There's difference in way of thinking.
14:07Right.
14:08And, uh, not too long ago, there was this Carlson-Niemann feud that happened where, um, Niemann was accused of cheating, right?
14:16It exposed deep suspicion at the highest levels of chess.
14:20How concerned are you about the threat of cheating in modern chess now?
14:25Is it something that, uh, weighs on you when you join tournaments?
14:29For me, I'm not really that concerned because when we join like, um, a big event, there will be, uh, screening like metal detecting and then even the live streaming is being delayed.
14:42Right.
14:43So, the chance for people to cheat is very slim and likely the online tournaments, online chess tournaments.
14:50Yeah.
14:51Right.
14:51And you said you yourself actually rather play, um, what's it called?
14:55Over, over the board tournaments, right?
14:58Yeah.
14:58Instead of online tournaments.
14:59Um, is it the, is it the cheating aspect that makes you want to play over the board because there's less chances of ability, uh, to cheat when it's played over the board?
15:09That's one of the reasons for the, yeah.
15:11But would you still consider playing online?
15:14I, I'm still playing online.
15:15Oh, you are.
15:15But not joining events, just for trainings.
15:18Right.
15:19Yeah.
15:19Do you find that there's a difference between the way Malaysians play chess and, is there a difference between like the country that you come from and the way you play chess?
15:28Oh.
15:28There are differences.
15:29For example, the Southeast Asia, I think we are more, uh, likely love complex positions.
15:35Hmm.
15:36Do you think there's a reason why, in your opinion, why is it that way?
15:40Maybe because of the influence of the grandmasters, like in the, the Indonesian grandmasters, Vietnamese.
15:46I can't really say for sure, but it's more interesting than the, how some Europeans play.
15:53We all know there's one aspect about you, which is that you are this amazing, talented chess player.
15:59Of course, there's more to you than just being a chess player.
16:02If, are you comfortable being represented as a chess player everywhere you go, you're introduced as this amazing chess player, but obviously that's not all you are, right?
16:13Yeah.
16:13How do you feel when that's the one main thing that people know you for?
16:18Um, I don't really like it.
16:20Like, I wanted people to know me outside of chess.
16:23What do you want them to know?
16:24Like, I'm just a normal person, doing nothing.
16:28Yeah.
16:29Do you feel people sometimes don't think of you as a normal person because of how talented you are in chess?
16:35It's just because sometimes I think like, uh, when you are talented in something, your names are, uh, everywhere on the internet.
16:44For that one thing.
16:45Yeah.
16:46So, what is the Putri Munajah that people don't, who is the Putri Munajah that people don't know?
16:51Like, what do you enjoy doing when you're not playing chess?
16:54Um, so, like I told you, I, I love speaking languages.
16:58Yeah, I love learning languages.
17:00So.
17:01That's what you do?
17:02That's what I do.
17:03Right.
17:03And also, sometimes I run.
17:05Okay.
17:06Yeah, even my running friends, I don't like, straightforward, telling them, oh, I'm playing chess.
17:11No, I didn't touch that part at all.
17:12Which is great because the one thing you cannot do while you're running is play chess.
17:18Yeah, exactly.
17:18Like, you literally cannot do it while you're running, right?
17:21So, it's actually, it's almost like an escape for you to be able to run.
17:24Yeah, an escape.
17:25Yeah.
17:26And what do you do for a living?
17:27Like, you know what's so interesting is when I was preparing for, to speak to you today, I couldn't even find out what you do for a living.
17:34Because every article that featured you spoke about this amazing chess player that you are, but didn't speak about what you graduated from.
17:44What do you, what do you work as now?
17:46Is that something you're comfortable talking about?
17:49Yeah, I'm okay.
17:50Yeah.
17:50So, what did you graduate your university from?
17:52This week is my last week of internship.
17:55Congratulations.
17:55So, I'm currently studying Bachelor of Computer Science.
17:59And other than chess, I also enjoy doing codes.
18:03So, what do you want to work as your dream job?
18:07What would it be?
18:07I used to think I want to be a software developer.
18:10Used to, okay.
18:11Yeah, I used to.
18:12Do your parents know that they're sitting right over there?
18:14They're listening very intently right now.
18:17So, is that still the plan?
18:18It depends because I think nowadays I want to focus on chess first.
18:24Okay.
18:25You know, your parents went from sitting like this to leaning in just a little bit now because they're intent on listening to this part of the conversation, I think.
18:34Right.
18:34So, chess could become actually your main focus and it could become your, well, it is now in fact already, but it could actually be your job.
18:45It could be, but I could try to find a way to combine chess and computer science, for example.
18:53Yeah.
18:53I could try to find a way to combine them.
18:56Like how?
18:57A few days ago, I was thinking to try to combine, like, to do a study which studies how people's psychology can determine their play style.
19:12Really?
19:12That's interesting.
19:13It depends on their behavior, I think.
19:16And I think if I somehow try to go into that part, I can try to produce another good chess players.
19:25Chess players as good as you.
19:26And actually speaking of combining those two skills, you know, with powerful AI engines reshaping preparation for chess tournaments, how have you integrated tools like Stockfish into your study?
19:41And do you ever worry about losing the human creativity element to engine-driven analysis?
19:47Because now there's even competitions that many, in fact, that include AI as the challengers or the opponents, right?
19:55So nowadays, when there are technologies, there are like new things out there.
19:59You have to use it.
20:00You have to follow the trends.
20:01And you have to follow it, but not blindly.
20:05You have to know the reason why.
20:07Because engines, they can see 20 moves ahead.
20:10How do you feel when you compete against an engine?
20:12I always, I think I always lose all the time.
20:17But you're the better for it because every time you lose, you learn something new.
20:21For me, I don't play against the engines, but I use the engines to analyze my games.
20:27When you say you analyze your game, do you sit down alone for that?
20:31Or do you like have conversations with your siblings, with your dad, your mom, and like you go over where you could have improved or which move could have been a better move?
20:41Most of the time alone.
20:43Is that your preference?
20:45That's my preference.
20:47That's a very brave thing for you to say with your mom and dad in the room here.
20:52You're telling them, actually, I'm okay to just do it on your own.
20:55You know, being a chess player, you've played all over the world as well.
21:00You've traveled a fair bit, right?
21:01What has been your favorite part about the travel aspect of playing chess?
21:06The travel aspect is that I get to know new people.
21:11And then like some of the countries that I've been to, I've met my friends, my language partners.
21:19And also, I get to try their food.
21:22Oh, so you do enjoy like trying new food as well.
21:25Yeah.
21:25Right.
21:26For a person, you look like a very fit person though.
21:29All that running, of course, must have upset all of that eating as well.
21:33Are you much of a culture person?
21:36Do you like to experience new food, but also like new places during your travels?
21:41Yeah, new places as well.
21:43And you actually have the time to appreciate that while you're still actually focused on your playing?
21:47Because most of the time, I try to focus on chess first.
21:51And then there's like gap days between my flight and the last game.
21:57So for example, like two days before my flight, we try to go to new places.
22:01I try to enjoy the scenery.
22:04Yeah.
22:05Not just playing chess and then return back to Malaysia.
22:07Right.
22:08So you get to actually experience what it's like as well to be there.
22:11You know, as Malaysia's highest ranked active woman chess player, what role do you envision for yourself in mentoring?
22:19I know you're only 24, but in mentoring the next generation and advocating for greater female participation in the sport?
22:27So actually, currently, I am the coach of a para team.
22:33Oh.
22:34The para team, yeah.
22:35Okay.
22:36So in last year, I've been coaching the Sukma Selangor female team.
22:41Right.
22:41Mm-hmm.
22:42Is there a different set of skills that's required when playing and coaching?
22:47I think for coaching, you have to be more patient.
22:52And I try to be friends with my students, not so that they can talk to me like friends.
22:59Okay.
23:00So there's no gap between the ages and also to try to understand more about them.
23:06I'm going to ask you to make a difficult decision now.
23:08But between coaching and playing, if you had to only choose one, even though I think I know the answer,
23:17which would you choose?
23:18100% playing.
23:21When you see the people you coach do well, though, how do you feel then?
23:26I feel good for them.
23:28Like, okay, the best thing is that you know that the thing that I've taught them are being applied in a game.
23:37Okay.
23:38Are there moments when the people that you coach, when they do less than you would hope they would do,
23:47less well than you would hope they would do, how do you cope with that?
23:51It's almost like having children almost when you have to coach students.
23:55What I did was I just re-explain.
23:58Yeah.
23:58Yeah.
23:59And then I try to, because, you know, kids, when they lose, they are going to get upset.
24:05Yeah.
24:06Yeah.
24:06And somehow that thing is going to bring them down and they can't even focus on the next round.
24:11So what I did was I tried to call them and talk to them directly and telling them,
24:17that's not a big deal.
24:18You can focus on the next one.
24:20Don't remember about it anymore.
24:21The ages of which you, the students that you teach, how old are they?
24:27From 8 to 14.
24:308 to 14.
24:31Yeah.
24:32Do you treat them the way you want yourself to be treated when you were, you were, you know,
24:38growing up in the sport as you were training?
24:41To be honest, I think probably I like the way I was being treated, yeah.
24:48So you're just following through with the same way.
24:50Yeah.
24:50Wow.
24:51Having you sit in front of me and share your journey, right?
24:56Do you feel chess has shaped the way you are as a person?
25:01Like, because you, it's been such a big part of your life, right?
25:05Has it actually shaped the way you feel and you think and the way that you are?
25:11Yes.
25:12Like how?
25:13For example, like, making some decisions, some big decisions in life.
25:17So I have to think about, like, what are going to happen next?
25:21What do I do from this situation?
25:24To always analyse your options?
25:26More like an overthinker.
25:29But you mean that in a good way, right?
25:32In a good way.
25:32Because it's better to overthink than to not think about consequences.
25:38Yeah.
25:38And those skills actually bleed through from chess to real life.
25:42Do you find sometimes when you meet people who are not similar to you, the people who don't seem to think of consequences, how does that make you feel?
25:52I feel like it helps to them.
25:56Does it annoy you just a little bit?
25:57Like, wonder why?
25:58Why are you like this?
26:00Like, why are they not thinking further ahead?
26:02It will only annoy me if somehow their decisions impact my life.
26:07Which sometimes it does.
26:09It does, yeah.
26:10Right?
26:10But of course, that's where the patience of chess also comes in.
26:14Because you manage your reactions to the way that they, the decisions that they have made.
26:20Yes.
26:21I'm not trying to gaucher you.
26:24I'm just trying to get a better idea of the way that you deal with it.
26:27Because you're such a composed person and you're only 24.
26:29So, I don't meet a lot of 24-year-olds who are as composed as you are.
26:34It's very impressive.
26:35We've come to the rapid-fire question part of this conversation.
26:40So, whatever that comes to mind first is what we'll take.
26:43But remember, you can change your opinion later on.
26:46This is just how you feel right now.
26:48Okay.
26:48Alright.
26:48Whose games do you study most diligently?
26:51Magnus Carlsen.
26:53Who again?
26:53Magnus Carlsen.
26:54Okay.
26:54Magnus Carlsen.
26:55Okay.
26:56What's your favourite opening move?
26:58I don't have any favourite openings.
27:00Oh.
27:01Nothing.
27:02Right.
27:02So, nobody will know what that first move is going to be.
27:05Alright.
27:05What single habit has boosted your performance the most?
27:09To run after the event.
27:12That means to, after you've participated, you actually run to de-stress?
27:18Yeah.
27:19Yeah.
27:19To de-stress.
27:20Wow.
27:21That's interesting that that's boosted the performance the most.
27:23The ability to be able to calm down after a tournament.
27:28And after the amount of focus you have to put into a game.
27:32Yeah.
27:33Actually, it helps a lot.
27:34Because when your body is active, your minds are active as well.
27:38That makes so much sense.
27:39Which dream event are you most eager to compete in?
27:44It's Women's Grand Prix.
27:46Yeah.
27:47But for now, it seems a bit hard.
27:50Not a bit hard.
27:51It is hard to join.
27:54But is it in the making?
27:57Are you working towards it?
27:59Working towards it.
27:59Yeah.
28:00How soon do you think?
28:03Can't see for sure.
28:04Okay.
28:05Yeah.
28:05Accepted.
28:06Accepted.
28:06What's your go-to ritual to unwind after a long run?
28:11You've already answered that, actually.
28:12It's to run.
28:13Yeah.
28:13Right?
28:13That's the answer you gave.
28:14And how do you recover when a game doesn't go your way?
28:18I try to calm down.
28:19I try to talk with my parents.
28:21But without looking back at my games.
28:23Like, I will look at it back.
28:25Look at it back.
28:26But not during the event.
28:28Until it ended.
28:29Not immediately.
28:30Not immediately.
28:30Because at that point, is it because emotions are high at that point?
28:34That you don't want to deal with that yet?
28:37Yeah.
28:38How soon after do you take a look at it then?
28:40After the event ended.
28:42Like, after all the games ended, then I can look back at all of my games and to evaluate
28:47what happened wrong here.
28:50Do you find that people...
28:51People, do you feel that being at the level that you are, in the position that you are,
28:55do many people find...
28:56Do you think people find you intimidating?
28:58Like, that sometimes when people come to speak to you, they are almost nervous when
29:04they speak to you?
29:05Not really.
29:06Oh, just me then.
29:07Now, final question is, you know, we ask this of all of our guests.
29:14If you had the opportunity to make one change as Prime Minister of Malaysia for a day, what
29:20would it be and why?
29:22To build a chess school.
29:25Yeah.
29:26There isn't one?
29:28Yeah.
29:29Oh, okay.
29:30The reason is because in Indonesia, they have a school called Sekolah Catur Utut Adianto.
29:36And from that school, they produce a lot of grandmasters, a lot of strong players.
29:41And I think if in Malaysia, we could manage to build this one school, it could help a lot.
29:46Right.
29:47Well, that's actually definitely something worth making happen.
29:51Thank you so much for joining us here today.
29:54It has been very eye-opening and enlightening and a pleasure to have you join us.
29:59And I will never play chess with you because if there's one thing I've learned today, it
30:05is I need to accept my failures even before they began sometimes.
30:10Thank you so much for joining us.
30:12And thank you for joining us as well.
30:14And of course, join us for our next Live Confessions, where we'll speak with another
30:19amazing guest, just like the one we had today.
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