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Mehdi Hasan podcast
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00:00And this is not, again, a fringe figure.
00:0190 to 100 million evangelicals in the United States.
00:03John Hagee is one of the biggest figures.
00:05He's invited to White House events.
00:06He's invited to U.S. embassy openings.
00:08Imagine if a Muslim was saying this stuff.
00:11Imagine if a Muslim says, it's like, we need to destroy Israel.
00:13And then the next day, and the next day, he's like, he's hosted by the president of Egypt.
00:18Imagine a college kid on campus is saying from the river to the sea,
00:21Palestine will be free.
00:22We're told that's genocide.
00:23This guy is proposing wiping out multiple countries in the Middle East.
00:26He's a favorite of the Republican Party.
00:28And by the way, this is the most important point.
00:30He's an anti-Semite.
00:39I'm Mehdi Hassan.
00:41And I'm Bassem Yusuf.
00:42And we are not kidding.
00:43We're not.
00:44We're not.
00:44Bassem, welcome back.
00:46You're leaning into this hoodie thing.
00:47Oh, my God, I knew it.
00:48The minute I put this on in my hotel room this morning, I thought, Bassem's going to make a gag.
00:52I'm coming here.
00:53Who are you?
00:54Are you back to being a doctor again?
00:55I'm being respectful.
00:56I feel like you've got bedside manner.
00:57You're back to being a doctor again.
00:58That's the only shirt I own.
01:01Well, you look good.
01:02I don't know what happened here today.
01:03I went informal.
01:04You went formal.
01:05Role reversal.
01:05Yes.
01:06Good to have you back.
01:06Thank you so much for having me.
01:07You've been so busy traveling the world.
01:09I had to do an episode without you.
01:10And you found a replacement for me already.
01:12You got Sami Obeid.
01:13Sami was fantastic.
01:14I hate him.
01:15I hate him because he's so good.
01:16He's very good.
01:17He can make jokes about math.
01:19About math.
01:19How many people can do that?
01:23He's brilliant.
01:23I've never come across anyone who's done it successfully.
01:26No, we missed you.
01:27But you've been busy.
01:28You've been...
01:28Your tour's over.
01:29You're back here in LA.
01:30We are in Los Angeles.
01:31I'm here visiting you on home turf.
01:33Yes.
01:33Thank you so much.
01:34You're back for what?
01:3472 hours before you do another 100 shows?
01:36Yes.
01:36I finished 25 shows in Europe.
01:39And then I'm doing just four shows, five shows in the Middle East, four different countries.
01:44And it's going to be interesting.
01:45I watched you on Instagram in various cities in Europe.
01:48I got asked a question.
01:49You seemed like you were having a lot of fun.
01:50You are an Egyptian-American from Cairo, living in LA.
01:54It's a simple question.
01:55What's your favorite European city that you went to?
01:56Oh, I don't know.
01:58You've got to say.
01:59Okay, I have one.
02:00I'm a Londoner, so I'm biased.
02:02Dublin.
02:02Dublin.
02:03Oh, my God.
02:03The energy.
02:05The energy.
02:05I had drunk Irishmen coming up to me.
02:08I was like, oh, it's you.
02:10It's you.
02:11You're Free Palestine.
02:13That's what I was going to say.
02:14That's why you really like Dublin, not the drunk folks.
02:17Put gold under him.
02:19I had the energy.
02:22That's why you like Ireland, because of Free Palestine.
02:24Because the Irish have got good politics.
02:26It's an issue you care about.
02:27I told them, like, you know, Irish people, they've been occupied, displaced.
02:31They went through famine.
02:32They've been through oppression.
02:33They are the brown people of Europe.
02:34And that's why they feel for us.
02:37I'm sure they even had a brown guy as prime minister for a while.
02:40Yeah, I know.
02:41So, let's talk about Palestine.
02:43By the way, one more thing.
02:45Go on.
02:45About before.
02:46I'm still going to try to make you dance with me at the end.
02:50Our favorite dance.
02:51It's not going to work.
02:52Even with the hoodie.
02:52Even with the hoodie.
02:53You can do it in your cold hands and I'll watch you.
02:56Okay, I'll try.
02:57I'm not the Dublin crowd, sadly.
03:00Let's talk about Palestine.
03:01Issue that hasn't gone away since we last spoke, sadly.
03:04And one thing I wanted to talk to you about today.
03:05This show is called We're Not Kidding.
03:07I want to talk about topics that you go, are you kidding?
03:10And the obvious topic, and I know you've talked about this, but I want to get into it today.
03:14Which is religion.
03:16The role of religion in this conflict.
03:18The role of religious extremism.
03:20Something you and I have both critiqued in our own ways over the years.
03:22Both within our own community and in other communities.
03:26But I want to start with a really crazy story that you've talked about.
03:29I didn't believe when I came across, although this is nonsense.
03:32What are we talking about?
03:34I'm talking about a cow.
03:35No, are you talking about the red heifers?
03:36I want to talk about red heifers.
03:37No, I know, dude.
03:38I need to talk to you about red heifers.
03:40No.
03:40I do.
03:41I've become obsessed with red heifers.
03:42No.
03:43I have.
03:44I'm like the expert on red heifers now.
03:46Here's the thing about red heifers.
03:47I went on a couple of podcasts.
03:50And everybody was like, oh, Bassem now is meddling in conspiracy theories.
03:53So with all of that, these messages like, okay, maybe I went too far.
03:57Because honestly, I was watching a lot of stuff.
04:00Like, for example, that documentary called Praying for Armageddon.
04:03Which is an incredible documentary, I think, done by a Danish director.
04:08And they came to my show, by the way, in Copenhagen.
04:11And they were very appreciative.
04:14But I thought I was going too far because I was scared.
04:17Because when I saw that people high up, politicians, people in power, talking, spouting crazy, religious, apocalyptic ideas, I thought I was a little bit paranoid.
04:32Well, just so our viewers and listeners are with us, what's the deal with the red heifers?
04:36I don't want to get into it.
04:40All right, I'm going to get into it.
04:41Okay.
04:42This is fascinating.
04:43I hear the thing.
04:44He's a respectful journalist.
04:45So I'm going to hide behind his journalistic credibility.
04:48And I'm going to see, oh, my God.
04:50Is that true?
04:51Oh, my God.
04:52Is this happening?
04:53People who know me know that even if you disagree with me, I try and bring receipts.
04:56Bring the receipts, babe.
04:57For those of you at home who aren't aware of what is going on in what was a fringe part of the Israeli Jewish community, but is becoming very mainstream, unfortunately, under this government.
05:06There are a bunch of messianic people in Israel who want to build the third temple, right?
05:11There's two previous temples destroyed by the Romans, the last one, 70 AD.
05:16And right now there is a movement, a temple movement in Israel and supported abroad that wants to rebuild the temple.
05:22The only slight problem is they want to rebuild it on top of Al-Aqsa, which is one of the holiest sites for Muslims.
05:29Are you saying that those people are using religious ideas in order to push political agendas so they can bring back?
05:36But I thought only Muslims do that.
05:37They can bring back Jesus and the end of the world.
05:41No, I thought we are the only one.
05:44We are the crazy ones.
05:45No, don't tell me.
05:46You've jumped ahead.
05:47I do not believe you.
05:47I do not believe you.
05:48No, no, no, no, no, no.
05:50You've jumped ahead, my friend.
05:51Okay.
05:51Because we haven't even got to Jesus yet.
05:52We're talking about our Jewish cousins.
05:54Let's wait until we get to our Christian cousins in a moment.
05:55Well, both of them are waiting for some kind of Jesus.
05:58Muslims are waiting, too, for a guy.
06:00Do you know who the Muslims are waiting for?
06:01Al-Mahdi.
06:02Yeah.
06:02Not me.
06:03But also Jesus.
06:04But also Jesus.
06:04Jesus has to come before Mahdi.
06:05Before we get into the deep religion, this is not a religious discussion.
06:08Maybe it's you.
06:09I want to be clear.
06:10Neither of us are religious scholars.
06:11You are the antichrist.
06:12Neither of us are religious scholars.
06:14But this is important because right now we're seeing a lot of violence, not just in Gaza,
06:19as you pointed out in your initial viral Piers Morgan appearance, West Bank, occupied
06:23West Bank, East Jerusalem, a lot of violence.
06:25And a lot of that is to do with these messianic folks trying to storm the Al-Aqsa compound,
06:29trying to get sovereignty of the Temple Mount.
06:31And just what's fascinating is there's a bunch of cows at the heart of this.
06:35And you talk about, we don't need to hide behind me.
06:38Well, let's hide behind CBS News.
06:40Let's hide behind CBS News.
06:41In a recent speech, a Hamas spokesman blamed the Jews for bringing red cows to the Holy Land.
06:47The cows he's talking about at a secure, undisclosed location are these.
06:52Red heifers, to be precise.
06:54Some Jews and Christians believe they're the key to rebuilding the historic Jewish temple
06:59in Jerusalem and to beckoning the Messiah.
07:03So just to be clear to the viewers and listeners at home, I just want to be clear about this.
07:07There is a belief in some Jewish circles that in order to rebuild the temple, the third temple,
07:15because there was a first and a second temple, they believe, the second destroyed by the Romans
07:19in 70 AD.
07:20In order to do that, now, before the Messiah gets here, part of the build-up to that is
07:27finding a red heifer.
07:29A female cow that's never been milked, never been pregnant, never worked, never been yoked
07:35to a cart.
07:36And that cow has to be completely red.
07:39Not even two hairs can be non-red.
07:41Otherwise, it doesn't count.
07:42Very hard to find.
07:43And that cow has to be found, brought to Jerusalem, burned, overlooking the site of the Temple
07:49Mount.
07:49The Mount of Olives is one such site.
07:52And when they burn that cow, they look at the book of Numbers in the Old Testament, which
07:56talks about this prophecy.
07:57Well, it talks about the use of a cow to purify the priests.
08:01This is what Moses and his brother Aaron are told by the Lord in the book of Numbers.
08:05They believe that in order to burn this cow, they're then purifying the ground, purifying
08:10the holy space, purifying the priests who will come and build the third temple.
08:15That's the role that the red heifer plays.
08:18And they now say they've got five of them.
08:20They claim they were going to burn it on Passover.
08:23Didn't happen.
08:23Passover came and went.
08:25They said they're going to do it on Pentecost, according to some of the evangelicals.
08:28That's come and gone in May.
08:29Didn't happen.
08:30Now they're saying maybe June in Shavuot.
08:33Like with a lot of religious cults, the date keeps moving.
08:35But I find it fascinating that these people are using this idea of sacrificing a cow to rebuild
08:41the temple to bring about basically their version of the end times.
08:44But forget end times.
08:46We all know what would happen geopolitically in the world we live in today if there was,
08:49God forbid, an attack on Al-Aqsa Mosque by crazy messianic settlers.
08:53Also, I'm plant-based, so I don't know.
08:54I don't lie.
08:54I don't try to say that.
08:56I'm almost vegan, so.
08:57Well, I actually love good steak.
08:59I love beef.
09:01So it's interesting.
09:02Let's have some beef.
09:02By the way, here's an interesting part to the story of the red heifers.
09:05Yeah.
09:05The people who brought over these cows, they've been trying to breed one of these red heifers for ages
09:09in the West Bank in the mid-90s.
09:11Apparently, there was a cow called Melody that they thought was the cow.
09:15And by the way, for people thinking we're crazy, again, let's hide behind someone else.
09:18David Landau of Haaretz wrote a piece in the mid-90s, and he said,
09:22shoot the cow in the head, a bullet to the head.
09:24We cannot have this cow.
09:25It'll bring about craziness.
09:28It'll bring about a terrorist attack, right?
09:30That's how worried people were in Israeli society about the fringe.
09:33But in the 90s, they were the fringe, Bassem.
09:35Now they're in government.
09:36They're in cabinet.
09:36The Israeli government gave an exception to these cows.
09:39Do you know this?
09:40They turned them into pets.
09:41Pets.
09:42Pets.
09:43They say, like, we cannot bring them because there are strict laws to bringing cattle outside of Israel.
09:49So they had to bring them as pets.
09:51Pets.
09:51And they were greeted at the airport by the Israeli minister, the Director General of the Israeli Ministry for Jerusalem and Heritage Affairs.
09:56The Israeli government is in on this.
09:58This is why we want to talk about it today.
10:00Because I talk a lot about the Israeli government, about Ben-Gavir, about Smotrich, about Eliyahu, who's the heritage minister from Smotrich's party.
10:07About the Temple Institute, which is actually an institute supported by the Israeli government.
10:13So here's the thing.
10:13This is exactly what happened to me.
10:14When I started talking about this, like Bassem is just bringing fringe ideas.
10:18These are people in the fringe.
10:19And people were responding to me.
10:20It's like, oh, you're just like bringing the most extreme ideas.
10:22It's like, okay, maybe I'm wrong.
10:24But now I see some of those people in ceremonies, like, for example, when they opened the move, the American embassy into Jerusalem.
10:34All of those, like John Hagee, all of those right wing Christians, all those people came in and they were celebrating it.
10:41So it is not really just political.
10:43It is religious.
10:44And that is scary.
10:45Here's the thing about building the third temple over at Laksa Mosque.
10:49A lot of people, when they see this picture of the gold dome mosque, they say that's actually the dome of the rock.
10:59Laksa Mosque is actually right next to it.
11:02And it's like a rectangular, like yellowish building.
11:09And I remember I was growing up.
11:10People say, like, be careful.
11:12This is not Laksa Mosque.
11:13That's Laksa Mosque because with all of the conspiracy theories at the time, we thought it was fringe.
11:18It will never happen, but now it's closer than ever.
11:20It's like when they build, when they tear down the Laksa Mosque, it's like, see, the golden dome is still there.
11:26We didn't tear it down.
11:28So maybe it's just like an idea to, especially for the people who are not from that region, to understand the distinction between Laksa Mosque.
11:34And either ways, even if there's no Laksa Mosque, to have, like, to go in and to do something that will incite maybe a very, very big regional war just because of religious beliefs, that's scary in itself.
11:49So I want to bring up those guys you mentioned in a moment.
11:53Before we get that far, let's just talk about what's so fascinating is there is this weird alliance between right-wing Christian evangelicals in the US who want to bring about the new temple because Jesus will rule from that temple for a thousand years, they believe, the dispensationalists.
12:08And, of course, our far-right Israeli settler friends who want to, you know, destroy all of this and bring back the Messiah.
12:14I should point out mainstream Jewish religious views is that the temple is rebuilt when the Messiah comes, not predates it.
12:21You can't, it reminds me, actually, and people get upset with this analogy, but it reminds me of some of the ISIS folks.
12:27Do you remember some of the ISIS folks in Dabiq wanted a big battle to bring about the end of the world?
12:31They believed in northern Syria.
12:33And most of us Muslims said that's not how it works.
12:35You don't get to kind of accelerate the end of the world through your own stupid actions.
12:40So actually, this comes back to the origin of the Zionist movement, because when the Zionist movement started in the 19th century and they said, like, we need to have an Israel, a state of Israel, so we'll bring back the Messiah.
12:53Many of the rabbis said, like, no, you can't.
12:56He has to come first.
12:57So they said, well, we're going to accelerate it.
13:00So we're going to, basically, we're going to build it and he will come.
13:02Yes.
13:03That most religious Jews and rabbis around the start of Zionism were opposed to Zionism, precisely to this reason.
13:07It was a secular ideology.
13:09And I'm going to be debating Zionism next month in June in Toronto on this very subject, because people don't understand the history of this topic.
13:16It is very political right now.
13:17You have government ministers in Israel supporting this stuff.
13:20You have a temple institute that wants to do it.
13:21And by the way, Hamas, keep bringing this up.
13:24We want to talk about, they always want us to talk about Hamas, so let's talk about Hamas.
13:26Before talking about Hamas, I want to talk about something about religious, about that, when we're talking about, like, a lot of rabbis and Jewish sects were against having Palestine as the state for, like, to be the home for Jewish people.
13:41There was this documentary produced, directed, and hosted by Bill Mars called Religious-less.
13:51Dumb name.
13:52Religious-less?
13:52Is that the name?
13:53Going off to, making the case for atheism, right?
13:55Yeah, yeah.
13:56But no, no.
13:56He was making fun of organized religions, Islam, Christianity, Judaism.
14:02So in that, he made fun of all of the extreme views of all of the religions.
14:08He went to Islam, and of course, it was, like, an easy target for him.
14:12All of the people killing in the name of Allah, all of those people, like, using terrorism as a way to advance the religious beliefs.
14:19Okay, and then he went to the Christians, and he made fun of the second coming of Jesus and the rapture.
14:24But then he went to the Jewish people.
14:26He had a lot to choose from.
14:28But what he did, he went to Naturi Karta, which is the anti-Zionist, who are against having Israel as a state until the Messiah comes.
14:39He has some pretty extreme views, we should say, as well.
14:41But here's the thing.
14:42When he went to the Judaism, because, like, Bill Marks is like, I'm an equal opportunity defender.
14:47He didn't go after the powerful extremists.
14:49He didn't go after the extreme people in Israel who says that all the Gentiles will be our slaves, or everybody will be enslaved by the Jews, and they will be happy.
14:59That is a fringe position within Judaism, but the fringe has been empowered in Israel.
15:03I know, but you see what he did?
15:04He went after the fringe in all of the other religions, and when he went after the fringe Jews, he went after something that would serve a political purpose.
15:14What's so interesting is, as a Muslim who covered the war on terror, you know, I was asked again and again to answer for ISIS's apocalyptic views, and ISIS's end times.
15:23And I'd say, these people are fringe.
15:24These people are not representative of any average Muslim.
15:27And today, I want to say the same thing about my Jewish cousins.
15:29Most American Jews don't support this stuff.
15:32But what's interesting is, again, I'll say it again, Israeli government contains these ministers.
15:36Israeli government supports the group that's bringing in heifers as pets in order to burn them at the Mount of Olives,
15:42and bring about a new temple at the end of time.
15:45And here's the thing.
15:46Growing up, I was always faced by my American friends bringing me videos that would always bring the worst of the fringe of the Muslim world.
15:56And it's like, oh, look at this she is saying this.
15:58I was like, that doesn't represent me.
15:59And I was put in a position having to defend myself.
16:03So you know what?
16:03I am grateful that for the first time now, people are like, wait a minute.
16:06It's not just Islam.
16:08It's not like Christianity.
16:09Why aren't anybody talking about the fringe and the Jewish religion who are actually now not just like a fringe,
16:16but they are leading their political direction?
16:18No, but what's so scary, and this is what I want to talk to you about today, this is about politics.
16:21This is not a religious discussion, so you and I are not religious scholars.
16:23What I would say is the politics of this is super scary.
16:26So right now, you have Christian evangelicals in the US who want to bring about the end of times with the cows.
16:31Everyone needs to see this.
16:33National Gathering for Prayer and Repentance.
16:35It's Breakfast.
16:36It's an organization, big gathering in Washington, D.C., end of January, three months after October 7th.
16:42You might think it's a bunch of fringe weirdos, but it's opened by Speaker Mike Johnson,
16:46who some people might say is a fringe weirdo, but he is the House Speaker.
16:48Wow.
16:49He turns up to open this event.
16:51Mike Johnson in the house?
16:52Mike Johnson in the house, of the house, turns up at this gathering.
16:57And at this gathering, and I want to play this clip, a guy called Byron Stinson, a Christian from Texas, does an event, does a panel with a rabbi called Yitzhak Mamo from the Occupied West Bank.
17:08Listen to the stuff that they are saying.
17:09So my friend Rabbi Itzhak called me in Texas.
17:14He said, Byron, we need to find the red heifer.
17:17He said, we need to look into Numbers 19, and we need to do what the Lord said, what God said.
17:22And so that's what we did.
17:24So, Saki, can you tell us about Numbers 19 and what that means?
17:27You know, it's a strange commitment that actually more than 2,000 years, nobody deal with.
17:35And when we start to make a research, we found that there is a red Angus.
17:40If you are a farmer from Kansas, Texas, you will know exactly what is this.
17:45And I called my friend Byron, and I told him, listen, we are looking for red, as it's written in the Bible, Numbers 19.
17:55You have to find a red heifer without blemish, without white or black hair, that never walk,
18:05and bring it to Jerusalem, not as a sacrifice.
18:12The red heifer is not a sacrifice.
18:14The red heifer is a ceremony.
18:16We use the red heifer, we burn it together with Esau and other things,
18:21and then mix the ash with water from the spring, and then we can be kind to be pure.
18:29I mean, like, I did not leave the Middle East, escaping from dictatorships and religious extremism,
18:36to come here to be ruled by a bunch of peasants from Texas with extreme religious view, putting, what, what?
18:47We are going to get the red heifer, we are going to slaughter them, burn them, and then mix them,
18:53but it's not a sacrifice.
18:55I just wanted to make this clear.
18:56We are going to take those animals, slaughter them, burn them, turn them into ashes,
19:03but it's not sacrifice, it's a ceremony.
19:06I cannot find better, better, like, gaslighting techniques like this.
19:10My wife's family is from Texas.
19:12I can never have a stake in Texas again, red angus, without thinking about,
19:15without thinking about the end of times.
19:18Let me say this to you.
19:18Wait, wait, wait, can you please go back, like, look at number six.
19:21Yes, Eleazar the priest must then take a stick of seder, a hiso branch, and some scarlet yarn,
19:27and a virgin bee, and an infidel ant, and something.
19:35Wait, what is this?
19:36This is sorcery.
19:39Sorry, sorry, Bas, this is sorcery.
19:40This is where we're going to disagree, you and I.
19:41No, this is sorcery.
19:42I want to disagree with you.
19:43This is sorcery.
19:43No, it's religious scripture.
19:45The Quran has several verses, I'm going to defend religious scripture.
19:47I don't have a problem with religious scripture.
19:48I don't have a problem with religious scripture being politicized in 2024 to seize land.
19:54I have a problem with religious scripture, it's going to affect someone who doesn't believe in that scripture.
19:58That's true.
19:59You have Hamas putting out statements, people don't realize this.
20:01Hamas have put out statements saying, we did the Al-Aqsa flood, that's what they call their attack,
20:05because they think they're protecting Al-Aqsa.
20:07Because red cows were brought in for America, so Hamas are following the red heifer story, which is insane.
20:12So you have Hamas stupidly claiming that they killed innocent people because they're worried about red cows.
20:17You have two guys, a Jewish and a Christian guy, at a conference opened by the House Speaker in January,
20:22three months after October 7th, saying, this is what we're trying to physically bring about.
20:26Can you imagine if Nancy Pelosi, when she was House Speaker, turned up at a Muslim conference,
20:29where they talked about end of the world?
20:31Can you imagine the reaction in our media?
20:32Nobody would have been saying conspiracy than that.
20:34They'd have been saying, you're empowering extremists.
20:37And what's so fascinating about these two guys is they want different things from the same scripture.
20:41Yes.
20:42This is what's so fascinating to me.
20:43I say to my Jewish friends all the time, and I say to Israelis, even who disagree with me,
20:47we can disagree, but why are you allying with those guys?
20:50Those guys want you dead.
20:52Like, the end of times for Christians.
20:53Let's explain that, because everybody talks about Judeo-Christian values.
20:56Yes.
20:57There is nothing Judeo-Christian here, because from the...
21:00It's Christian-Christian.
21:01From the right-wing extreme Christian point of view, they would say that the second coming
21:09of Jesus will happen, rapture will happen, and he's going to come, and every single Jew
21:13will either convert or die, except 144,000 Jews who would preach the gospel of Christ.
21:22On the other hand, on the other hand of the extreme Jewish side, they say that it's actually
21:28when the Mishaya come, because it's not, they don't, the deontologies, everybody will
21:34be enslaved by the Jews, including Christians.
21:37And both of these are extreme positions within Christianity and Judaism, just like we have
21:41extreme positions in Islam.
21:41So they're basically pushing for something, for the same thing, but totally different outcome.
21:45Israeli leaders have been asked in the past, Bassem, why are you allying with these nut
21:50jobs, who basically, their vision of supporting Israel is basically, we want everyone ingathered
21:54there so that Jesus come back and everyone dies, and they say, we'll take whatever allies
21:58we can get, right?
21:58That's the cynical move on the Israeli far right, is to ally with actual anti-Semites.
22:03Also, speaking about using religion and politics, I remember you had a very interesting interview
22:09with Naftali Banat, which, by the way, I quoted that interview in another part, when
22:13everybody said, well, does Israel have the right to exist?
22:16And then I told him, like, Naftali Banat was Al Jazeera a couple of years ago, and he
22:20was asked about the Palestinians' right to exist, like, well, not everybody gets a country.
22:25Like, the people in the Bas, people in Korea don't have a country, so Palestinians, but
22:29when it comes to Israel, oh, okay, of course.
22:30Well, because he cites religious reasoning.
22:32Yeah, but then, but then in the same interview, I guess, you actually asked him a very interesting
22:36question about that.
22:39Let me finish.
22:40And he never finishes, he never answers.
22:41It's what's so fascinating, and I do miss my suit and tie as I watched that clip, and
22:46I miss my lack of gray hair back in the day, but you hear me there going, is this a theocracy?
22:51What is going on here?
22:52But he deflects.
22:53But I've interviewed so many people over the years.
22:55I've interviewed Ilhan Omar, hate figure for the American right.
22:57They've never come, I've interviewed Palestinians from every, they've never, even the Hamas guys
23:01I've interviewed, I've never quoted the Quran to me.
23:03Like, no one's had the audacity to come on a TV show and say to me, well, Bible verse
23:07X, Y, Quran verse X, Y.
23:09Like, this guy's telling me, he goes on to become Prime Minister of Israel shortly after
23:12this interview.
23:13He's telling me, go change the Bible.
23:15And you hear, I was perplexed in that moment.
23:17I was like, is he really doing this?
23:18And that's why we need to understand that there are people who are, you know, we talk
23:22about in our community, the Salafi literalists, the people who take the word, the Quran and
23:26Hadith, literally.
23:27These guys are running Israel, some of these people.
23:30And Israelis know this, by the way.
23:31We don't talk about this in American media.
23:32Israeli, secular Israelis know that their country is being overrun.
23:35The New York Times just did a big piece about how fringe settlers and messianic figures
23:39have basically taken over Israel.
23:41Ronan Bergman has just written a piece last week.
23:43So this is a conversation we need to have.
23:45It has impact on all of us.
23:47And meanwhile, instead of calling this stuff out, the American political mainstream, especially
23:52the Republican Party, you have Mike Johnson turning up to events where they're talking
23:57about red heifers and, you know, building another temple and bring about the end of the
24:00world.
24:01You mentioned them all.
24:02The John Hageys, the religious Christian evangelical leadership in this country who are totally
24:06on board with Israel.
24:07And also people like Kofi, Christian United for Israel, they have an annual budget of $7
24:12million to spend on lobbying.
24:15$7 million.
24:15And actually, over the years, John Hageys sent $80 million to Israel, not from his own
24:21money, but these are all donations from his congregation.
24:24So you know how he gets the donations.
24:25We've got a clip of John Hagey.
24:26Let's play the clip of John Hagey.
24:28The Jewish people are a covenant people.
24:31Those covenants that God made with them still stand.
24:35They have not been replaced by the church, as many of you have been taught.
24:39The Jewish people are a cherished people.
24:42They are a chosen people.
24:44God chose those people.
24:46I need to talk about God-chosen people.
24:48Okay.
24:49Because I don't know, as a Christian, when your priest or pastor tells you, there are
24:57God-chosen people.
24:59Now, if I'm sitting there.
25:00Why am I not one of them?
25:02Like, I mean, would I feel like left out?
25:03Why isn't God choosing me?
25:04I mean, if you believe so hard that these are God-chosen people, why don't you don't
25:09become Jewish?
25:10Yeah, it doesn't make any sense.
25:10Why don't you convert?
25:11Well, the answer is, and let's play the rest of the clip, Will.
25:13The answer's coming.
25:14You have a listen.
25:15They are, the Bible says, the apple of God's eye.
25:18The apple is the pupil of your eye.
25:21So if you start picking on Israel, you're sticking your finger in the eye of God.
25:27Try sticking your finger in someone's eye and see how quick you get their attention.
25:32Or stick your finger somewhere else.
25:34Did you notice the very smart conflation from God's chosen people and the Jewish people?
25:40And as a Muslim, I believe God does cherish the Jewish people.
25:43But did you notice the smart conflation from that to Israel?
25:45Yeah.
25:46Immediately, what Hagee's interest is not the Jewish people.
25:49It's the state of Israel, which is a modern secular creation.
25:51When God is talking in the Bible about Jews and Israel, he's not talking about the state
25:54created by David Ben-Gurion in 1948.
25:56Let's keep playing.
25:57The significant thing for you to remember here is that God Almighty is making an unbreakable
26:05covenant with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob forever that the land belongs to the Jewish people.
26:13End of story.
26:15There are 38 different passages in the Bible that give the borders of Israel.
26:20God promised the Jewish people these lands.
26:24One half of modern-day Egypt, all of Israel, all of Lebanon, all of Syria, all of Jordan,
26:34all of Kuwait, and three-fourths of Saudi Arabia.
26:39This is going to become a reality in the millennial reign when Jesus Christ rules the world from
26:45Jerusalem with a rod of iron.
26:48God's not saying, let's make a deal.
26:50He's saying, this is the deal.
26:51This is the property they have.
26:54This is Israel right now.
26:57And this is what will happen whenever the Messiah comes back.
27:02It will be a massive land grant.
27:06It's very interesting because this is also very close to the map of greater Israel that
27:11Smutrish and Ben-Gafir put it behind them.
27:14But their map is much bigger.
27:17So he's like, Gehegi basically gave them a little bit of Saudi Arabia, all of Syria,
27:21all of Lebanon, all of Jerusalem, a little bit of Egypt.
27:23Don't forget about your country.
27:23Yeah, but a little bit here.
27:25But like in the greater Israel, they take all of Sinai, all the way to the Euphrates,
27:29a little bit of Turkey.
27:31And the thing is, and he says like sooner or later this happened.
27:35So basically, we are being told that we are going to be kicked out of our land soon because
27:41God wants that.
27:42So that's scary, right?
27:44I mean, this is, and this is not again, fringe figure, 90 to 100 million evangelicals in
27:48the United States.
27:48John Hagee is one of the biggest figures.
27:50He's invited to White House events.
27:51He's invited to US embassy openings.
27:54Imagine if a Muslim was saying this stuff.
27:56Imagine if a Muslim says, it's like, we need to destroy Israel.
27:59And then the next day, and the next day, he's like, he's hosted by the president of Egypt.
28:03Imagine a college kid on campus is saying from the river to the sea, Palestine will be
28:07free.
28:07We're told that's genocide.
28:09This guy is proposing wiping out multiple countries in the Middle East.
28:12He's a favorite of the Republican Party.
28:14And by the way, this is the most important point.
28:17He's an anti-Semite.
28:18He's an open anti-Semite.
28:19His philo-Semitism.
28:20Here's the thing about those people, Kofis and the likes.
28:23They are pro-Israel, but they hate the Jews.
28:25Because the people...
28:26They're pro-Israel because they want to get rid of the Jews.
28:29It's like, hey, go there so we can kill you all.
28:30So just to be clear, John Hagee is on the record saying that Hitler was a half Jew.
28:36He says the Antichrist will be partially Jewish.
28:38This phrase that I'm using in scripture, the God of his fathers, is a phrase in scripture
28:44used solely to identify the Jewish people.
28:47It suggests that this man is at least going to be partially Jewish, as was Adolf Hitler.
28:53Pastor, I'm pretty sure if you and I, God forbid, ever said anything close to that, we
28:56would be rightly...
28:57We'd be rightly...
28:57We'd be rightly...
28:57We'd be rightly cancelled.
28:59This guy is hosted by the Republican Party, by United States presidents, and he's supposed
29:03to be the ally of the Jewish people?
29:05What's her name?
29:06Stefanik?
29:07Elise Stefanik.
29:08Elise Stefanik, the one who's like grilling all of the Ivy League presidents.
29:11She goes in and she endorses Karl Paladoni, who said that Hitler is the kind of leader
29:17that we need today.
29:18I was thinking the other day about somebody I'd mention on the radio, Adolf Hitler, and
29:24how he aroused the crowds.
29:27I mean, we get up there screaming these epithets, and these people were just, they were hypnotized
29:34by him.
29:35And that's, I guess, I guess that's the kind of leader we need today.
29:40She also endorses Great Replacement Theory, which led to the killings in Buffalo, which
29:43says Jews are bringing in brown people.
29:45So the same people who love Israel are the same people who go out and say Jews will not
29:50replace us.
29:51It's scary.
29:51It is scary.
29:52And they don't see that.
29:55Hold on, hold on.
29:55They do.
29:56I just want to be clear here.
29:57Okay.
29:57Our American Jewish community does see that, right?
29:59So the polling done by Pew and others shows, here's a great stat for you.
30:02Twice as many Christian evangelicals believe God gave the land to the Jewish people in
30:08America as American Jews.
30:10Yeah.
30:11It's a two to one ratio, right?
30:13It's crazy.
30:13Like 60 to 70% of American evangelicals believe God gave that land to the Jewish people for
30:16them alone.
30:17Only about 30 to 40% of American Jews believe that literal vision of the Naftali Bennett
30:21vision.
30:22So again, we have to remind ourselves we're not talking about ordinary Jews and Christians
30:25here.
30:25We're talking about fringe freaks who are no longer fringes in their respective countries.
30:30In Israel, they're controlling the government.
30:32And in the United States, they're controlling the Republican Party.
30:34People like Robert Jeffress, who says stuff like Jews will go to hell.
30:38He was invited to the US embassy opening where Jonathan Greenblatt from the ADL spoke
30:42alongside him.
30:42Didn't call him an anti-Semite, but calls Rashida Tlaib and others.
30:45So it's deeply depressing to see what is happening in the United States.
30:48And again, why are we talking about this now?
30:50Because as you said, Lee Stefanik is holding congressional hearings and the college students.
30:53Mike Johnson, the Speaker of the House.
30:55And do you know the guy, Rick Allen?
30:57Do you know a congressman called Rick Allen?
30:58Oh, wait, wait, wait.
30:58We have a clip.
30:59Rick Allen.
30:59Can I see the clip?
31:00We have a clip from a college hearing.
31:02Let's have a look at this college hearing.
31:03And then you'll know why Bassam and I decided to talk about this subject today.
31:06Are you familiar with Genesis 12.3?
31:09Probably not as well as you are, congressman.
31:12Well, it's pretty clear.
31:13It was a covenant that God made with Abraham.
31:18And that covenant was real clear.
31:23If you bless Israel, I will bless you.
31:26If you curse Israel, I will curse you.
31:29And then in the New Testament, it was confirmed that all nations would be blessed through you.
31:37So, you do not know about that?
31:42I have heard that now that you've explained it.
31:44Yes, I have heard that before.
31:45It's now familiar.
31:47Do you consider that a serious issue?
31:50I mean, do you want Columbia University to be cursed by God of the Bible?
31:56Definitely not.
31:57I mean, maybe you should have a course and, you know, you don't have to believe it.
32:03But, you know, the Bible is an incredible book.
32:07There's a lot of history there and you don't have to believe it.
32:10But you need to know what's in there.
32:12Maybe you should have a course suggested for those who are having problems with all of this on the Bible.
32:20And what's in the Bible and kind of what will happen if, you know, under the wrath of God.
32:26Now, here's the thing.
32:28Genesis 12.3 does not read like that.
32:31Yeah.
32:31Genesis 12.3 is like God talking to Abraham.
32:36And he's telling them, I bless people who bless you and I curse people who curse you.
32:40He's talking to Abraham.
32:41Yeah.
32:41He's not talking to Israel.
32:43He's not talking to David Ben-Gurion.
32:44He's not.
32:45He's talking about Abraham.
32:46And people might ask, yeah, but like Israel.
32:50Jewish people are descendants from Abraham.
32:51So as Arabs.
32:52So the whole.
32:53Hold on.
32:53But let's say he was.
32:55No, no.
32:55But here's the.
32:57I agree with you.
32:57Because there is like multiple mistakes.
33:00Yes.
33:00First of all, he's quoting religious scripture in a political setting.
33:04Second of all, it's a distorted translation.
33:08Agreed.
33:08And a lot of.
33:10And again, when I talked about this, a lot of people said, Bessim, you're meddling into the fringe thing.
33:13But a lot of people don't talk about the Schofield Bible.
33:16The Schofield Bible.
33:17Yes.
33:17Which was written.
33:191909.
33:201909 by an ex-felon.
33:23And.
33:24With no religious training.
33:25Which reminds me of the Islamists.
33:27A lot of the Islamist leaders like Zawahiri have no religious training.
33:30I noticed.
33:30But I don't know if you heard this, but you say like the Christian Bible is read from left to right.
33:36The Hebrew Bible is read from right to left.
33:38And the Schofield Bible is read from down upwards because the notes, the subnotes, the footnotes controls everything.
33:47They have made an interpretation.
33:48And here's the thing.
33:49That Bible and the footnotes was changed many times, especially after the 1967, the Six Days War.
33:56In the 80s, I believe they made it all about anti-Semitism in Israel.
33:59And the whole idea about like there's no crime more than anti-Semitism.
34:02All of that is not in the Bible.
34:03And just to the people listening, in case you think, what the hell are Bassem and Mehdi talking about?
34:07Random fringe stuff.
34:08This is the Bible that inspires John Hagee, Hal Lindsey, all of these end times guys who unfortunately are in many ways brainwashing millions of Americans.
34:16About this clip, Rick Allen is a congressman from Georgia, right?
34:20The congressman from Georgia, by the way, are the craziest ones.
34:22Marjorie Taylor Greene is from Georgia, right?
34:24Some of the craziest Republicans from Georgia.
34:26How does Manish Shafiq, the president of Colombia, sit there and laugh and smile and go, yes, I would have said, what the hell are you talking about?
34:34She's busy calling the police in to clear out students.
34:36She's scared for her job.
34:37And the thing is, like, even after all of the concessions she gave to them.
34:41Yeah, they're still after.
34:42She's still after.
34:42Stefanik wants her.
34:43Stay still with Biden.
34:45After all the concessions she gave to Israel, Biden does not withstand with Israel.
34:48Hamas loves Biden.
34:49Here's what's so fascinating about this clip.
34:51Again, I hate the Imagine If game, but I'm going to play it.
34:53Can you imagine if Ilhan Omar was interviewing a college president and said, but the Quran says, do you want to go against the God?
35:00I mean, can you imagine?
35:01People would lose their minds.
35:03This guy's not even a household name.
35:04Nobody knows who Rick Allen is.
35:05He should be on the front page of every newspaper as a deranged religious theocrat in Congress, bullying secular college presidents.
35:11And this is what's happening in our politics.
35:13The Republican Party is not just white supremacist adjacent.
35:17It is full on Christian supremacist.
35:19Even secular folks, Lindsey Graham.
35:21Lindsey Graham, who's not known as some Christian theocrat.
35:24Did you hear what he said at the beginning?
35:25Oh, he want to like new Gaza or something?
35:27He wanted to level Gaza.
35:27But listen to the context.
35:28And we said, I think we have the clip of Lindsey Graham, senator, Republican senator.
35:32We're in a religious war here.
35:34I am with Israel.
35:35Do whatever the hell you have to do to defend yourself.
35:38Level the place.
35:39From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free.
35:41According to the House of Representatives in a resolution is a genocidal statement.
35:45But a Republican senator saying level the place.
35:47And I think in the same thing, in the same, or in the name of God, he said like, oh, we knew Christian and Nagasaki.
35:52He said that recently.
35:52They should do whatever they want.
35:53This is an older clip.
35:54He said that the other day.
35:54This is straight off October 7th.
35:55So here's the thing.
35:56Like, people like him, people like openly atheist Bill Maher's.
36:00They are like atheists until it comes to Israel.
36:02Suddenly it's biblical.
36:03Oh, we are the chosen people.
36:04Lindsey Graham is not known for being a very Christian, you know, right-wing member of Congress.
36:08But listen to what he says.
36:09This is a religious war.
36:10Bassem, this is what bothers me most about this debate.
36:12This is why I actually want to talk about some of the fringe freaks today.
36:14Because I don't believe it's a religious war.
36:16I assume you don't believe it's a religious war.
36:18It's not objectively.
36:18It is made into a religious war.
36:20Look, as people like Rashid Khalidi and Omar Bagouti of BDS have said, we would oppose Zionists if they were Buddhists.
36:27If they were Hindus.
36:28If they were atheists, right?
36:30It's a war about land.
36:32It's a struggle about freedom and self-determination.
36:34It's not about religion.
36:35I would support the Palestinian people.
36:37I support the people of Tibet.
36:38They're not Muslim.
36:39I support their right to self-determination.
36:40I support the Uyghurs in Xinjiang who are Muslim.
36:42I support Palestinians who are Christians and Muslims.
36:45For people like Lindsey Graham to say this is a religious war, it's so reckless and dangerous and irresponsible.
36:51Yeah.
36:51And I think as people tell you, what about the people on the Islam?
36:54It's like, we already call them terrorists.
36:55Exactly.
36:56We already call them terrorists.
36:57If you want to make the comparison, and none of them is in the heads of states of the countries surrounding Israel.
37:05Egypt.
37:06Even Saudi Arabia.
37:06MBS is not a religious Jew.
37:09MBS will never go in.
37:10He's locked up all the Islamic preachers.
37:12He will not have people coming on, like, representing Saudi Arabia and say, like, oh, it's a religion, so we should wipe up the Jews.
37:18And we have a lot of Jews in religious scripture to advance that hate.
37:22But also, when Hamas says stuff like that, and Hamas calls itself Islamic resistance movement, people don't agree with that, right?
37:27That's the whole point.
37:28Palestinians are led by, quote, unquote, you know, the PA, the Palestinian Authority, the PLO, which have always been secular organizations.
37:34This is a struggle for freedom.
37:37It's very simple.
37:38And for people like Graham to make it into a religious war, and for people like Mike Johnson to turn up at events where they're talking about rebuilding temples, wiping out mosques, burning out red cows.
37:48It is scary, I'm sorry to say, and that's why I wanted to talk about it today.
37:51And it is crazy.
37:52It's like a lot of projection, a lot of deflection.
37:55Because now it's like, you know, I'm all for criticizing extreme religious views, whether that was Islamic or otherwise.
38:01But now I think it's, I think the table has turned.
38:04I think we need to talk about other religious, extreme religious views, not just like Muslim people.
38:08I don't know about you, but I've always been someone who, I got in trouble with fellow Muslims.
38:12Islamists hate me.
38:14Islamists freaking hate me.
38:16I'm a Muslim, right?
38:17I'm a Muslim.
38:18I'm a practicing Muslim.
38:19I believe in Muslim.
38:20I believe in Islam.
38:21But I don't believe that you weaponize religion.
38:23I do believe that you have to have a space where people are, as you said earlier in the show, you can't impose your religious views on other people.
38:30That's what it comes down to.
38:31But it doesn't matter how many times you say it, they're still going to call you a terrorist, an Islamic.
38:34An Islamist.
38:35And then they would ignore all of that right there in front of you in plain sight, which is crazy.
38:39No, the people who are trying to bring about the end of the world on our side of the argument, thankfully, don't have much power.
38:47You can talk about Iran or Hamas, whatever it is, and Iran doesn't have nuclear weapons.
38:51Israel does, and America does.
38:52And Israel has the backing of the United States.
38:54But if you want to talk, like, there is a clip, there is a clip that there's, like, a religious, like, Jewish leader who's talking about, like, killing everybody.
39:02Oh, I wrote about him for Zatea, Rabbi Eliyahu Mali from Jaffa.
39:07And in reality, do not spare any soul is based on the doctrine that says, he who comes to kill you in the afternoon, kill him in the morning.
39:15And the one who comes to kill you here, in the broad sense, is not the person who is 18, 16, 20, 30 years old, the one who points his weapon at you.
39:23But also the next generation, and those who give birth to the next generation, because in reality, there is no difference.
39:32And elderly people?
39:34The elderly people, there is no such thing called an innocent creature.
39:38By the way, the elderly man is capable of carrying a rifle and shooting.
39:43Therefore, the Torah concept is very clear in the ruling.
39:45In Gaza, according to estimates from the IDF, between 95% to 98% want to annihilate us.
39:55This is the silent majority.
39:57The children, too, should be killed?
39:59The same thing.
40:01The same thing.
40:02When the Torah says, do not spare any soul, then you must not spare any soul.
40:07Today he is a child, today he is a youth, and tomorrow a fighter.
40:11But this guy, this rabbi, interesting, notice what he says.
40:13He says, don't be clever with the Torah.
40:14Again, the misuse of religion and religious scripture is so blatant.
40:18I watch this, I feel like I've gone back in time to 20 years when you and I are being asked,
40:21condemn this sheikh on YouTube, condemn this preacher in Egypt.
40:24Why do they condemn this preacher?
40:25This guy, if you put him in Arabic, could fit in with all of the ISIS, Al-Qaeda folks.
40:29He's saying, kill kids.
40:30And I wrote about him in my newsletter for Zeteo.
40:33Shameless plug, if you're not subscribed to my newsletter at zeteo.com, please do so.
40:37No one else wrote about him.
40:38He should be front page news if this was a...
40:40And he's not some fringe freak again.
40:42He trains the soldiers going into Gaza.
40:44They're students at his school.
40:46Many of the officers going into Gaza are hearing this crap in the name of religion.
40:50I'm always going to condemn anyone who kills in the name of Christianity, anyone who kills
40:54in the name of Judaism, anyone who kills in the name of Islam.
40:57You don't use religion to justify your craziness, your violence, your desire for land.
41:02I don't condemn.
41:02I just make fun of them.
41:03And I think we should have the liberty to call out all of those religious scholars.
41:09I mean, I'm not very popular with the Islamist movement.
41:11You know that.
41:12People that are like...
41:13Because I...
41:15Don't bring 7th century ideology into the 21st century.
41:18But those people, they're bringing like...
41:20Even predates Jesus Christ ideology.
41:24They're bringing like...
41:25I've always been there for 6,000 years.
41:26And they're weaponizing it in order to take people land, to kill people, to have license
41:30of killing children.
41:32It's the weaponizing that I have an issue with, right?
41:35I have no problem with the book of Numbers.
41:36I have no problem with religious sacrifices.
41:38I have a great sacrifice on Edil Adha coming up.
41:40I'm looking forward to that meet.
41:42But I know you're plant-based.
41:43But what I have a problem with is the weaponization.
41:46And I think those of us who are in a position to talk about this stuff should be able to condemn
41:50this weaponization and make more people aware of just the insanity.
41:54Because this is what we've talked about today is not the majority opinion in any of our communities.
41:57I just feel we're in a moment now, Bassem, where I spent the last two decades as a journalist
42:03in the UK and the US being asked to condemn Islamic extremism, Islamism, jihadism, being
42:09told that Muslims are all crazy, extreme, want to bring about the end of the world.
42:14And now I'm sitting in the United States and I'm watching some crazy Christian evangelicals,
42:20some militant far-right Israeli settlers form this alliance with support in Congress to
42:26do some really, really dangerous stuff, which is flying below the radar.
42:30And that's why I wanted to talk about this today.
42:31You know, we can laugh about a red heifer.
42:33We can laugh about, you know, there's prophecies about we didn't get time to get into it.
42:37There's prophecies about Israel will only survive 80 years.
42:40A lot of Israeli prime ministers have warned about this Netanyahu and Barack and Naftali
42:43Bennett.
42:44A lot of that is driving what is going on in the Middle East.
42:47As you say, the conflict is not about religion, but it's being made into something that is
42:51about religion.
42:51And I think those of us, whether we're Muslim, Christian, Jewish, atheists, we shouldn't
42:56have a Bill Maher-Palestine exception.
42:57We should call out the extremism wherever we see it.
43:00Yeah.
43:00If the Speaker of the House, and again, I talk this a lot, I talk about the way of praying
43:08for Armageddon, but they are now not just like in the Congress, not in the Senate.
43:12They are actually in the American army.
43:13John Hagee, who we've talked about today, the head of Christians United for Israel, very
43:18influential pastor who we watched, he says that he helped Donald Trump, persuade Donald
43:23Trump at a dinner to move the embassy to Jerusalem, the US embassy, because he told him Jesus will
43:28rule from there for a thousand years.
43:29Now, Donald Trump doesn't believe in any of this stuff.
43:31Donald Trump only believes in himself.
43:32But the idea that they can shift political power in this way, using these kind of fake
43:37religious justifications, and with Trump coming back very soon into office, is very
43:41worrying.
43:41And I think we should end it when we start talking about Donald Trump, because that's a whole
43:44separate topic that you and I, one day we'll need to talk about Trump and Biden.
43:47And Bassem, thank you very much.
43:48Thank you so much.
43:50And yeah.
43:51It's been a pleasure to come to your town this time.
43:52Yes.
43:53Where are we going to be next time?
43:54We're going to catch you in the world for our next episode in a month's time.
43:56I will come to you to New York.
43:58All right.
43:58I'll see you in New York.
43:59Let's do the East Coast.
44:00Although the West Coast is very nice, although I'm only here briefly.
44:03Yes.
44:04You're not dressed for a West Coast, I must say.
44:06Yeah.
44:06I thought I was giving you some, like, I'm just paying some courtesy to it.
44:10Yeah.
44:11I'm going to come in shorts next time.
44:12Shorts on the West.
44:13Shorts on the East Coast.
44:14Shorts on the East Coast.
44:15That's what you're waiting for.
44:17My legs are too thin.
44:18My name is Bassem Youssef.
44:20And we're not kidding.
44:21Seriously, what we talked about today, we're not kidding about it.
44:24Thanks, Bassem.
44:28We're Not Kidding is a Zeteo production.
44:30I'm your host, Mehdi Hassan, and today's co-host was Bassem Youssef.
44:33Our executive producers are Misha Youssef and Kieran Alvi.
44:36Our producer and editor is Frank Capello.
44:38Our music was composed by Andy Clausen.
44:40Our design is by Alicia Taitone.
44:42And the title card animation is by Ehsan Mezreli.
44:45Special thanks to Med-Aimam and Lara Strydom.
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