- avant-hier
On the July 23, 2025 edition of Pardon The Interruption (PTI), Michael Wilbon dives into the ongoing struggles of quarterback Caleb Williams under Coach Johnson’s leadership. The discussion covers how coaching style and system fit impact Williams’ performance and development this season.
🎙️ Highlights include:
Michael Wilbon’s analysis of Johnson’s coaching tactics
The challenges Caleb Williams faces adapting to the system
What this means for Williams’ future and team prospects
Broader implications for coaching and player development in the NFL
Stay tuned for more insightful sports commentary and in-depth discussions.
#PardonTheInterruption #CalebWilliams #MichaelWilbon #CoachJohnson #NFL2025 #PTI #SportsAnalysis #NFLQuarterback
🎙️ Highlights include:
Michael Wilbon’s analysis of Johnson’s coaching tactics
The challenges Caleb Williams faces adapting to the system
What this means for Williams’ future and team prospects
Broader implications for coaching and player development in the NFL
Stay tuned for more insightful sports commentary and in-depth discussions.
#PardonTheInterruption #CalebWilliams #MichaelWilbon #CoachJohnson #NFL2025 #PTI #SportsAnalysis #NFLQuarterback
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SportTranscription
00:00Pardon the interruption, but I'm Pablo Torre, and Tony's scientists have found that something like feathers grew from a 247-million-year-old reptile.
00:10Tony Kornheiser, hey, same here, on my inner left thigh, something like feathers.
00:17You should probably get that checked out.
00:19How do you think they measure that?
00:20Some point.
00:21How do they measure that it's a 247-million-year-old reptile?
00:25I mean, really.
00:26I don't want to sound like Wilbon, but we can't be that exact.
00:31We just can't be that exact.
00:32Well, come on.
00:33We're anti-dinosaur analytics?
00:35Come on.
00:36I'm not what Wilbon would be, but I'm not.
00:39I'm just questioning it.
00:41Welcome to PTI, boys and girls.
00:42Wilbon has a day off.
00:44I'm joined by our great friend, the host of the podcast, Pablo Torre finds out, Mr. Pablo Torre.
00:52And we begin this all-football segment.
00:56With word from New Chicago Bears coach Ben Johnson that his goal for second-year quarterback Caleb Williams is to complete 70%, 5% of his passes.
01:06The NFL produced 4,070 from four quarterbacks last season, Geno Smith, Joe Burrow, Baker Mayfield, Jared Goff.
01:15Pablo, are the Bears and Caleb Williams setting reasonable goals?
01:20Yeah, I think it's reasonable because 4,000 yards, you know, again, back in my day, that was a big deal.
01:25It's less so now.
01:27A very passing heavy league that feels like it's something that's achievable.
01:31Also, 70% completion is also something that feels doable for a parallel point.
01:37But the thing about this and why I'm so glad to be here with you as always, sitting in Mike Wilbon's chair,
01:42is that I get to be the one to say the Bears have had as many 4,000-yard passing seasons as you and I have.
01:50That's the comedy of this.
01:51That's right.
01:52The bar for them ain't that high.
01:53You know, Drew Brees has done it alone by himself five times.
01:58Bears, zero entering 2025.
02:00So reasonable, quietly achievable, but also very funny because of the tragic comedy of Bears quarterbacks.
02:08I agree with all of that.
02:10I mean, it's obviously achievable because four guys did it last year, but only 10 Lifetime have ever done this.
02:17And I would point out this, that none of the people who did it last year were in their second years as quarterbacks.
02:23And none of the people who did it last year were on a losing team.
02:26And the Bears were 5-12.
02:28Let me check my notes.
02:29Yeah, so it's a steeper hill.
02:30It's a steeper hill for Williams.
02:33But I agree with you.
02:34This is, it's an odd context given that the Bears have never had a 4,000-yard passing season,
02:40given that the Bears are not a passing first team,
02:43given that the Bears' great offensive players are usually running back.
02:46So it's a culture shock to how we associate the Bears.
02:51And I want to concentrate on Ben Johnson for a second.
02:54Yes.
02:54And I understand setting a goal of 70%.
02:57He's just spent a few years in Detroit with Jared Goff.
03:01Jared Goff is one of the four people who did this last year.
03:04I believe, and I could be mistaken, that Jared Goff has gone over 4,000 yards,
03:09I think maybe three years in a row.
03:11So I'm wondering, Pablo, does Ben Johnson have stars in his eyes?
03:16Do Ben Johnson and Caleb Williams, are they setting a realistic goal for them?
03:23That's the part I don't know.
03:25Yeah, I'm checking my stats here about Ben Johnson.
03:28And look, you're right.
03:29The whole thing with Ben Johnson and Jared Goff, the reason why Jared Goff was sort of reinvigorated,
03:36almost revived relative to his reputation, is because he and Matt Laporta figured something out.
03:42You know, they have a tight end in Detroit under Ben Johnson, where he was a key aspect of the passing game.
03:47And good news for Mike Wilbon is that Caleb Williams has Cole Komet.
03:52So they have the ability to do something quite parallel this season.
03:56That's why Ben Johnson should be actually quite optimistic about all of it.
04:01And Caleb Williams can do it.
04:02We saw that at USC.
04:03But again, you've got to point something out.
04:05As a rookie last year, he was overshadowed by another rookie, Jaden Daniels.
04:09And Jaden Daniels' numbers were about 3,600 yards and 69% completion.
04:13So he didn't hit those numbers either.
04:14I just don't want this to seem like a walk in the park.
04:17Because it is not.
04:18It is not.
04:19Well, it's not because it's also, once again, the Chicago Bears.
04:23But I want to move to money issues.
04:25At Maryland, college football now, head football coach Mike Loxley told reporters yesterday, Tony,
04:29that he lost the locker room during last year's 4-8 season because picking and choosing which players to spend money on
04:36led to a culture of haves and have-nots.
04:40Now, he said that he will not let those divisions happen again this season, adding, quote,
04:44quote, if I have to put my desk in that locker room, I will, end quote.
04:49So, Tony, what did you make of that explanation?
04:53Okay.
04:53So, Mike Loxley is trying to explain away a 4-8 season, 1-8 in the Big Ten.
05:00He had three winning seasons in a row, I believe, and went to three bowl games in a row.
05:04Now, let's not get carried away with what that means because he never, ever contended for the Big Ten title.
05:11And it takes a lot of gas at Maryland, by the way, because his combined record against Ohio State and Michigan and Penn State is 1-14.
05:19All right?
05:20So, let's look at that context.
05:22But what he says merits a discussion here.
05:25He is saying, because of money, I lost this team.
05:29And this ought to be a lesson for every college football coach out there, that if you don't, now that money is available,
05:36if you don't smoothly and skillfully handle the payments of that, your team could dissolve.
05:41I would think that Nick Saban, if you ask them, what are some of the reasons you left, one of the reasons would be just this particular thing.
05:48And Alabama has tons of money.
05:50And nothing matters more in the state of Alabama than college football.
05:53That's not true in Maryland.
05:54Maryland's a basketball school.
05:56In fact, their basketball coach, their most recent basketball coach, Kevin Willans, quit at the end of the year because he said,
06:02we don't have enough money to compete in the Big Ten.
06:05Right.
06:06Tony, I think about this the way I think about the Internet.
06:08And I think about you when I think about the Internet because you have a position that I find to be validated every day.
06:13You hate the Internet.
06:14It's the worst thing ever happened.
06:15It's terrible.
06:16Quote you four seconds ago.
06:19You're also not on the Internet.
06:20So, that's one solution if you want to hate the way that the world works.
06:25Just get out of the business of the Internet or college football because this is the way it's going to be from now on.
06:32And so, for Mike Loxley, this is a bit of an existential dilemma for him particularly because his self-appointed nickname is the Locker Room King.
06:40He calls himself this like he's the Sturgeon King and it's Barney Greengrass, right?
06:45He's the Locker Room King.
06:48And so, if you're the Locker Room King, you should know that this is a part of the job description that is changing.
06:52There are a lot of coaches, Tony, who are great walking into living rooms, who are great managing locker rooms, and all of that stuff is getting subsumed by the business of dollars and cents.
07:02It's a lot more like the pros.
07:04That's right.
07:04The ways that used to be distinguished, they're just not as relevant if that's your main thing.
07:09And so, Mike Loxley, yeah, I hear you.
07:11I just don't know what you're doing about it outside of leaving the business.
07:14Yeah, he gave himself that nickname the way Paul George gave himself Playoff P.
07:19How's that working out?
07:20It doesn't mean you can't criticize Mike Loxley's coaching from last year, but you do have to concede that once you start paying players, they're all going to want money and they're going to want equity probably by position.
07:33And they're not going to understand it if somebody else is making a lot more.
07:35And so, it becomes a very tough thing.
07:38And I would just say about what Loxley said, it's an astonishing comment.
07:42I never thought I would hear that from a coach.
07:44I never thought.
07:45I agree.
07:45We move on.
07:46We stay in college.
07:48We even stay in the Big Ten where Commissioner Tony Petiti is cheerleading for more automatic bids to the college football playoff for Big Ten teams.
07:57Big Ten teams.
07:58And he's saying a 6-3 record in the Big Ten is, quote, a great record.
08:02Petiti says this because the Big Ten plays nine conference games and the SEC plays eight.
08:08So, this is a way to persuade people that the Big Ten walks a harder road.
08:12Pablo, are you with Petiti that 6-3 is a great record in the Big Ten?
08:17I think he should make this case.
08:19And I think he should make this case because he recognizes that the business of college football at the very top is the SEC and the Big Ten.
08:26And there's a big drop off after that.
08:29And so, the real question as the Big Ten and the SEC wonder, are we going to just go off and make a super league at some point, is, okay, in the meantime, how do we compete with each other?
08:40And, yes, he is saying when it comes to the expanded playoff field, consider a 6-3 on a curve.
08:47Consider it in context that we are, in fact, a great league in which we play more games.
08:52So, hey, six wins over here.
08:54That means something quite different, as does the three losses.
08:57So, I get it.
08:58It's smart.
08:58It's marketing.
08:59It's the only argument he has, really, when it comes to plausibly comparing against the SEC in that way.
09:05So, let me just be definitive here.
09:076-3 is not a great record in the Big Ten.
09:09This is not a great record.
09:10Here's where it's a great record.
09:12If a Big Ten team went to the NFC North and went 6-3, that would be a great record.
09:186-3 in a Big Ten is good.
09:20It's not great.
09:20Who are the three you lost to?
09:22Who are the six you beat?
09:24If you pull a Maryland and you lose to Ohio State and you lose to Michigan and you lose to Penn State, then get out of here.
09:31I don't want to hear it.
09:32I don't want to hear about your wins against Northwestern and Purdue.
09:34I don't want to hear that.
09:35That's nonsense.
09:36I'd rather enjoy that the Big Ten and the SEC are trying to push each other off a cliff.
09:42I like that.
09:43I mean, should the SEC go out and play nine conference games just like the Big Ten?
09:47Well, maybe they should, but if I ran the SEC, I would say, why don't you worry about your league and we'll worry about our league?
09:53The SEC, for a lot of years, has made a lot of money and gotten a lot of guaranteed wins by playing the Citadel.
09:59But, this is an important but, they've also won a lot of national championships, and the Citadel was not in those.
10:05Not in those.
10:06In the last 20 years or so, we've seen Alabama and Auburn and Georgia and LSU and Florida.
10:12They've won national championships in a comparable period of time.
10:14How many Big Ten teams?
10:16Probably two.
10:17Probably Ohio State and Michigan.
10:19So, as Petiti is screaming, let us in when we do well in conference, the SEC is saying, no, look at our overall ranking.
10:25So, I enjoy the battle that's going on, where I agree with you completely, as they are the two best by miles.
10:33By miles.
10:34Oh, yeah.
10:35These are the sorts of conferences where, again, we talked about this yesterday, it's a type of conference where you're like, please, can we pay you to be in them?
10:42That's the type of conference that these things are, and they're saying to each other now, look, if we've got to elbow each other for those final slots at the end of the playoff field,
10:52and they show that sad boardroom, and everyone has to make a call in which everyone's mad, they're going to say, remember that time I told you 6-3 was great.
11:00That's why he's doing it.
11:01It's political as much as it is actual merit.
11:04Sure.
11:04He's cheerleading.
11:05That's what he's doing.
11:06Let's take a break.
11:07Coming up, Rafael Devers plays first base for the Giants, something he refused to do for the Red Sox.
11:12What's the word for that?
11:14And how best to describe Venus Williams becoming the second oldest woman in history to win a top tour tennis match.
11:21Look, they should have most of the bids.
11:24Those two conferences should have most of the bids.
11:26There's no question about that.
11:28And you don't see Memphis putting up money to get into the Big Ten.
11:33Time to get it on with Lexicon.
11:35Simon, what's the word?
11:36What's first, please?
11:37It's blank that Rafael Devers apparently enjoyed playing first base more than DH-ing last night.
11:45My word is heartwarming.
11:47Can you feel the sarcasm?
11:49Because maybe now Devers will be a better teammate in San Francisco than he was in Boston, right?
11:56Maybe he'll do what is asked of him.
11:58He did not do that in Boston.
12:00He told them in Boston when they took him off third base, he said, I'm not playing anywhere else.
12:04I'm just going to DH.
12:05I'm not doing anything you want me to do.
12:07So they traded him as far away physically as they could and to another league.
12:12And there are some numbers here that are consequential.
12:15Since arriving in San Francisco, Devers is batting .227 even with two hits last night.
12:20He has two homers and 11 RBI in 30 games.
12:24That's not great.
12:25The Giants are 12-18 with him in the lineup, and that's not great.
12:28Boston without him in the lineup is 17-13, and that's not great, but it's a lot better than 12-18.
12:35And so maybe Rafael Devers has realized that he has to try to rebuild his shattered reputation.
12:41That got romantic at the end, rebuilding the shattered reputation.
12:47My word, by contrast, is ex-boyfriend-ish.
12:51This relationship, the new relationship Devers is in is not going well, as you surmise.
12:56And it's sort of like when the only revenge you have is to do the thing, finally, that your ex kept on asking you to do,
13:04that you refused to the whole time, only to reveal that I'm kind of into this now.
13:09I hate dancing.
13:12Now you're on the dance floor.
13:13I hate doing the dishes.
13:15Now you're Mr. Clean.
13:16This is Rafael Devers just trying to twist the resemblance of what is left of a knife in the Red Sox because they're thinking,
13:23this is all we wanted from you, and finally you do it when we're apart.
13:29It's romance gone wrong.
13:31It is ex-boyfriend-ish.
13:34That's why you went to Harvard.
13:36That was a screenplay.
13:38You just wrote a screenplay on the PTI show.
13:41I really like that.
13:42I'm going to shut up on the next one.
13:44What's next?
13:45It's blank that Venus Williams won a professional tennis match at the age of 45.
13:51So my word is terrific, and most of why I say it's terrific is because my son and his wife and their boys went last night,
13:59and they saw Venus Williams, and they were enthralled by Venus Williams.
14:03This tournament, this D.C. tournament, is sort of a stepping stone tournament for the U.S. Open.
14:08It's on hard court.
14:09It lasts for about two weeks, and it draws some pretty big names.
14:12Francis Tiafoe is in it.
14:14Ben Shelton is in it.
14:15I think Taylor Fritz is in it.
14:16Emma Navarro is in it.
14:18Jessica Pagula is in it.
14:19I think Naomi Osaka is in it.
14:21Venus is in it because she played for team tennis for the Washington Castles, and the owner of the Washington Castles, Mark Ein, runs this tournament.
14:30So they have a lot of history.
14:31Look, 45 is 45.
14:34She's not going to win the tournament.
14:35I didn't even think she'd win any matches at all.
14:37I don't think she's going to win the next one against the five seed, but she won last night, and that was great because she's an all-timer.
14:44She has seven majors.
14:46This is a wonderful moment.
14:49Yeah, I'm going to go high finish again, though.
14:52I'm going to go no-hitter-like.
14:54Because listening to you talk about how Michael took the family to go see this, of course, in person, in person, you see a no-hitter, and it's fantastic.
15:03And you say to everybody, everybody you know, you won't believe what I saw.
15:08But then you get the push alert, Tony, on your phone, a little alert, and it says a no-hitter, and you're like, there are a lot of these.
15:14And you don't really think about it.
15:16No-hitter-like because what is so spectacular at this point in modernity happens often enough, 40-something-year-old athletes doing good things, that it feels kind of almost expected, which is kind of sad, I must admit.
15:33Not of a 45-year-old.
15:35No, no, no.
15:35Oh, but we're in the era of LeBron and Tom Brady.
15:40This is the thing that made 40s.
15:43Different sports.
15:43I'm just saying.
15:44I mean, I wish I reacted in a different way, but I didn't.
15:49Yeah.
15:49No, it's objectively incredible, but I don't see that.
15:52I think it's a very small, special moment, I think.
15:56That's final word.
15:57Let's take one last break, but still to come, Jacob Young of the Nats.
16:01We're doing the Nats on this show?
16:03Makes it improbable catch.
16:04The Nats made this show?
16:06Really?
16:06And the VNL Messi, meanwhile, in the real world, decides whether he'll be playing in tonight's MLS All-Star game.
16:13Have you ever been to a no-hitter?
16:15Have you been a no-hitter, a perfect game?
16:16I've never.
16:18Here's the connection for the actor to a sports show.
16:21One, the possibility that Cheers was a sports bar, considering Sam Malone was a former Red Sox pitcher.
16:27Two, Harrelson was tremendous in White Men Can't Jump, as was Wesley Snipes.
16:32Three, he was a bowler in that very weird movie Kingpin.
16:35Harrelson has been nominated for three Academy Awards, most recently in three billboards outside Ebbing, Missouri.
16:40I love Harrelson now in those commercials he does with Matthew McConaughey, particularly the one where McConaughey gets splashed by a passing car.
16:48I have no idea what product they're selling, but I really like the commercials.
16:51I have no idea the product either.
16:53I just remember that we talked about magic mushrooms at the top of yesterday's PTI show.
16:57And there is a podcast in which Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson apparently reminisced around how Woody got dosed pretty heavily and loved it,
17:06while Ted Danson was absolutely horrified and had a panic attack.
17:10So, also happening in that universe.
17:13Yeah.
17:14Podcasts in the news.
17:15Happy anniversary, Nomar Garcia-Para.
17:17We could have done Nomar's 52nd birthday today, but instead we're doing this anniversary.
17:23On this day 23 years ago, Nomar had three consecutive home runs in a span of two innings,
17:28accounting for eight RBI and a 22-4 drubbing of the Devil Rays on his 29th birthday.
17:34Nomar's career batting average was 313.
17:36He won two American League batting titles, Rookie of the Year, and was a six-time All-Star.
17:41Over a 20-year period beginning in the early 80s, the American League had the following people at shortstop.
17:45Cal Ripken Jr., Nomar Garcia-Para, and Derek Jeter.
17:49That's as good a group of shortstops as any league has ever had.
17:53And Nomar, who I always remember for both hitting .372 at one point, also his, of course, routine at the plate, Tony,
18:01and also the way that his name got pronounced by everybody in Boston, including my future father-in-law, it turned out.
18:06It was the aesthetics at one point as well as the substance.
18:10Nomar.
18:11Nomar.
18:11Nomar.
18:12Happy trails to a quarterback competition for the New York Giants.
18:15Head coach Brian Dayball named Russell Wilson the starting quarterback of the team today.
18:20That means that first-round draft pick Jackson Dart, free agent arrival Jameis Winston, and third-year backup Tommy DeVito
18:26will compete for supporting roles.
18:28The 36-year-old Wilson is a 10-time Pro Bowler, but he joined the Giants on a one-year deal,
18:33which makes you wonder how deeply committed the Giants are if Wilson gets off to a slow start.
18:38Yeah, look, they have options, but the whole thing with the middle-class-level bridge quarterback is that you could make it work, Tony.
18:47We saw this with Sam Darnold and the Vikings.
18:50You don't need him to be Mr. Forever.
18:52You just need him to be Mr. Right Now, and Russell Wilson could be that for them.
18:56Yeah.
18:57They're playing the season this year.
18:58You don't have to worry about next year.
19:00We got one other note here, a note on 40-year-olds.
19:0342-year-old Justin Verlander got his first win of the season.
19:06He is now 1-8.
19:08Here we go to the big finish, if we could.
19:10Go ahead.
19:12No, Ohtani just hit another home run, by the way.
19:14Yeah.
19:15Well, if I say, okay, there we go, but he's not 42, is he?
19:19UNC football announced it's completely sold out for Bill Belichick's first season.
19:23You're impressed, aren't you?
19:24It's a 51,000-seat stadium, and of course I'm obsessed with Bill Belichick.
19:29Everybody knows that.
19:30Leo Messi and Jordi Alba will not play in tonight's MLS All-Star game, Tony.
19:34Your thoughts?
19:34My thoughts are the All-Star game doesn't mean squat, and Leo Messi will play in whatever
19:41Inter-Miami game he wants to, and nobody's going to tell him he can't, because he is
19:45the league at the moment.
19:46T.J. Watt told Graham Bensinger that it really bothers him that his Steelers teams have not
19:51won a playoff game.
19:52That makes sense, doesn't it?
19:54I think it does.
19:55I mean, he's an amazing individual player, but you're going to end up getting a bit of
20:00the Lamar Jackson stuff, right, if you don't actually win in the postseason.
20:03Jacob Young of the Nats robbed Will Benson of the Reds of a home run this afternoon.
20:08Are you impressed?
20:10He's a great fielder.
20:11He climbs the wall.
20:12He brings it back.
20:13He's not a power hitter.
20:14His bobblehead for the Nats is actually him reaching out to make a catch.
20:19Last one, and they lost, of course.
20:20Last one.
20:21A 12-year-old Little Leaver suspended from the New Jersey State final for bat flipping.
20:25Your thoughts?
20:26I am told that the family is filing for a temporary restraining order, but I believe
20:31that's good parenting.
20:33A good bat flip is good parenting.
20:37That's funny.
20:38We're out of time.
20:38We'll try and do better the next time.
20:40I'm Tony Kornhacher.
20:41A good bat flip is good parenting.
20:45That's funny.
20:46We're out of time.
20:46We'll try and do better the next time.
20:48I'm Tony Kornhacher.
20:49And I'm Pablo Torre.
20:50Thank you for what was MVP caliber.
20:53We all know that.
20:54And then you look at how they lost all of these one-score games last season, Tony.
20:57You might recall that as well.
20:59And you look at the defense.
21:00The defense, which was sixth worst by the advanced metrics in the NFL.
21:04The defense, which was the reason they were an eight-loss team last season.
21:09And so what do they do?
21:10They bring back the offense, which is great.
21:12Joe Burrow is going to have another great offensive season.
21:14Should he be healthy?
21:15But the defense remains the same, except now they're missing some guys because of
21:19holdout-slash-hold-in stuff.
21:21So no assurance that this season is going to be better than last season, which was a waste.
21:27So I thought that Joe Burrow's senior year at LSU was the greatest season a college quarterback
21:34ever had.
21:35He comes into the NFL, and in his second year, he's in the Super Bowl.
21:39Second year in the Super Bowl.
21:40He's going into his sixth season now, and he's been to the playoffs one more time.
21:46Just one more time.
21:47He goes out.
21:48He puts monster numbers up all the time.
21:51The Cincinnati Bengals lose.
21:53You can look this up.
21:54They lose by scores like 42-38 or 38-35.
22:00And Burrow has put up all this offense, and they can't win these games.
22:04It is because of their defense.
22:06They spent a lot of money to commit to wide receivers, which they should do.
22:10But go find some more money and commit to Hendrickson, commit to the rookie that they drafted.
22:17I mean, because if you don't, Joe Burrow is going to walk in there someday like an NBA player
22:24and say, get me out right now, or I'm going to take you to divorce court and sue you for
22:28non-support.
22:29Because that's his circumstance now.
22:32Yeah, I mean, look, we marvel at a Super Bowl.
22:36And again, the Super Bowl, we always say this, it's one in the trenches.
22:40And so the hardest thing to do is to find the right quarterback, your forever quarterback.
22:45And they got it.
22:46But those trenches, that's always the story.
22:49And they've wasted that.
22:51And I've now wasted your time by repeating that.
22:53So that is it.
22:54We are done.
22:55Back to you.
22:55Good stuff.
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