During a Senate Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions Committee hearing Wednesday, Sen. Bill Cassidy (R-LA) asked President Trump's nominee to be Assistant Secretary for Health Brian Christine about vaccine safety.
00:00Somehow I think your urologist may have asked you to cough, but that's okay.
00:08I'll finish.
00:09Kind of one of the nice things about being last is that you don't have a time limit.
00:15And so I may go a little bit longer than five minutes, but that's why.
00:20Dr. Christine, I really enjoyed your visit.
00:23You had mentioned, I think you used the term,
00:26to be an evangelist for those things that would make America healthy again.
00:30And to follow the science.
00:31Now, the science clearly, reproducibly, over and over again,
00:36have shown that vaccines are safe and that vaccines do not cause autism.
00:41And there's always this little bit of chatter out there,
00:44but when it's looked at by the mainstream of what the medical scientists look at,
00:51it's considered two, three, four standard deviations out.
00:54And the data over and over again reproducibly shows that they're safe
00:57and do not, are not associated with autism.
01:02Right now we have a measles outbreak.
01:04We had two children die of vaccine preventable diseases in West Texas.
01:09We had a pregnant woman lose her baby in Canada
01:13because she was exposed to someone who did not get vaccinated for measles,
01:17showing that we have a mutual responsibility.
01:19Just saying get vaccinated if you want to doesn't work for the pregnant woman
01:23who is then exposed and she loses her baby.
01:26And we're both pro-life, but you don't have to be pro-life to see that as an incredible tragedy.
01:31Are you willing to be an evangelist to tell people that vaccines have reproducibly been shown to be safe
01:36and that by golly you should be vaccinated so we don't lose another child?
01:39So, Senator, I too enjoyed the time we had together and Dr. Cassidy, I truly appreciated that day.
01:46As I've said here before the committee, I believe that vaccines save lives.
01:50I believe strongly that vaccines are an important part of our armamentarium
01:54as we promote public health and prevent disease.
01:57And if even one individual dies from a preventable disease,
02:00a disease that could be prevented by vaccination, that's certainly one too many.
02:03And I believe Secretary Kennedy feels that same way.
02:06I will certainly use my position, if confirmed as the Assistant Secretary for Health,
02:11to promote the health and the wellness of people in this country.
02:15I believe that vaccines are important.
02:17I believe that vaccinations are appropriate.
02:20My child is vaccinated.
02:22I also believe very strongly that vaccines, like any kind of medical therapy, are individual.
02:28And, of course, there are going to be inherent risks and benefits with any medical therapy.
02:31Let me stop you for a second.
02:33Of course, there's always risk.
02:36But there's been a lot of emphasis upon the risk, but no emphasis upon the risk of not being vaccinated.
02:43People don't die from getting vaccinated with measles.
02:45They just don't.
02:47People do die if they don't get vaccinated.
02:49Or they have a chronic condition which shows up 13 years later.
02:53Or if the child that was in utero when exposed is born may end up mentally retarded,
02:59when otherwise they would have lived a long life.
03:01So I agree with you that there is this kind of set of side effects.
03:04But I think we would both agree, because you mentioned earlier you're basically an applied biologist,
03:09that the overwhelming weight of evidence is that these vaccines are safe, they are effective,
03:14they prevent death, they prevent chronic disease.
03:17Would you be an evangelist on that, ma'am?
03:19I will absolutely be an evangelist that vaccinations are important, vaccines do save lives.
03:25I personally would recommend the measles vaccine.
03:27I believe that Secretary Kennedy is now doing the same.
03:30And so I will use that position to be an evangelist to help individuals understand
03:33and to bring them to want to pursue the appropriate vaccination schedule and what's right for them.
03:38So I guess the short answer to your question is yes.
03:40Mr. Kerry, I'm not an attorney.
03:43I'm a gastroenterologist.
03:45Like, what do I know about logs if I don't like attorneys?
03:47No offense.
03:49I listened very carefully to your exchange with Dr. Hawley.
03:54Mr. Hawley.
03:55I'm sorry.
03:56I'm into it now with Christine.
03:59So am I to say that if, see if I interpret this correctly, because Hawley had some points there.
04:07If there is a regional staff that investigates a claim upon the issue upon you are saying,
04:16well, there's prosecutorial discretion, that the regional staff would have the ability to pursue that claim
04:25under the current precedent, or were you saying that, no, you might pull that from them based upon your own discretion?
04:32I don't know.
04:33I'm just asking.
04:35The answer is the way that you presented it is correct.
04:39So once a new claim would come up in relation to the captive audience decision,
04:44the extant precedent is the Amazon decision.
04:48So in terms of conducting the investigation to determine whether or not there was merit,
04:53yes, they would base it on current board law.
04:55However, prosecutorial discretion rests with the general counsel.
04:59So there are many ways in which the act can be effectuated.
05:02It can be a withdrawal, it can be a dismissal, it can be to issue a complaint.
05:07It can also be to make new arguments, to present them to an administrative law judge, likely would lose.
05:14Accept that.
05:15I accept that.
05:16But if Hawley were still here, how would you allay his concerns that it would be your own discretion,
05:23independent of the inertia of the precedent that would establish the course of action?
05:30Correct.
05:31I mean, I believe that the agency is an independent agency, and I believe that the authority to make those prosecutorial decisions lies with the confirmed general counsel.
05:39And I would use that knowledge that I have, that I've garnered over the last 15 years of being, you know, a board agent for over half of that,
05:47and as a working practitioner, my knowledge of extant board law, to make a determination based on the facts of that case,
05:54whether or not to pursue a different standard or to continue under the precedent.
05:57Okay.
05:59I think he's a little concerned that personal belief might put a thumb on the scale.
06:06Now, again, as I followed that, and maybe that's inherent in the definition of discretion.
06:13I understand his concern, and I understand what you're saying.
06:16I'm not going to back away for something that I've said publicly in relation to a decision,
06:21but I take my job, if confirmed, as a civil servant.
06:24I took it very seriously when I worked there for nine years.
06:27I think it's important.
06:28It's a role, and those individuals all have personal opinions, but every day when they come to work,
06:33they know what their job is, and their job is to effectuate the act, and I take that seriously,
06:38and I am committed to fulfilling that role as well, if confirmed.
06:41And I think you pointed out that previous, certainly the previous person in this role used that discretion as well.
06:48Certainly.
06:49There were about 12 pages of cases that were overturned.
06:52Yeah.
06:52Okay.
06:53Well, I, hang on, where's my?
06:57Oh, I'd like to submit to the record support for Ms. Pennuccio's nomination from a group of civil rights attorneys and practitioners
07:15with extensive experience in employment law and federal civil rights enforcement and policy
07:20for her to serve as EEOC commissioner, and I acknowledge that this is submitted without objection.
07:28For any senator wishing to ask additional questions, questions for the record will be due at 5 p.m. tomorrow, July 17th.
