Future Palestinian state a place for women and respect for law, claims foreign minister
Palestinian Foreign Minister Varsen Shahin said any future Palestinian state will be pluralistic, with respect for any deal on a two-state solution for Israel and adherence to international law. She said the Palestinian Authority is on a path to root out corruption, which she admitted "takes time".
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00:00Dr. Varsan Shaheen, Palestinian Minister for Foreign Affairs, thank you very much for joining us on Euronews.
00:10Assalamu alaikum.
00:11Thank you very much and thank you for hosting me.
00:13What was widely anticipated happened, which was that EU member states decided not to take action against Israel for its war in Gaza and the situation in the West Bank.
00:23Many member states really can't agree to do that and it's obviously despite the fact that the EU has a report that said that Israel has breached EU human rights standards.
00:33What is your response to that?
00:35Shocking and disappointing because everything is crystal clear.
00:40I mean there's an EU report that clearly stated that Israel has been violating 38, 38 violations were indicated in that report.
00:52And it's an EU report.
00:55And the EU-Israel Association Agreement is also clear in its Article 2 on anybody part of the agreement should be in compliance with international law and international humanitarian law.
01:12And when an EU report says that there are 38 violations, that should be taken very seriously.
01:19And these violations have been unfolding in front of everybody's eyes.
01:24The whole world has been seeing what is happening in Gaza.
01:30The killing, the atrocities, the war crimes, the weaponization of food, the killing of people queuing to get a pack of flour.
01:42All of this is clear.
01:45It doesn't need more assessment.
01:48And yet there was a failure on agreeing to take actual measures.
01:54Those member states would say that that's the point, isn't it?
01:57That actually it won't deter anything.
01:59It won't help the situation on the ground for Palestinians.
02:02And that it would close the contact with Israel.
02:05Yes, but this line has been opened for so many years.
02:08And the violations are continuing.
02:10The time is now to say enough is enough.
02:13And wrongdoing, any perpetrator of wrongdoing should be held accountable.
02:18No state is above the law.
02:20A lot of what we hear from Israel is also that Hamas is taking aid from the mouths of Palestinian people in Gaza as well.
02:30Look, there are conflicting reports on this.
02:33But regardless, whatever is being offered in Gaza is not meeting the needs of the Gazans.
02:40There was a modality in the past, and that modality was working because the international organizations were distributing the aid.
02:49And they had like 300 points of distribution.
02:52Today we have a new modality with four points of distribution.
02:56Invariably, you will have crowds, massive numbers of people queuing to get food.
03:02Today, aid is not receiving, it's not received by the people, and it's causing a lot of damage and deaths.
03:09Today there are more than 700 people who have lost their lives, killed while queuing for food.
03:15And this has to stop.
03:16One of the points also made by the EU is that the reason they may not take action against Israel now is it's pending the materialization of this new agreement
03:25where the EU and Israel have agreed to substantially increase the amount of aid into Gaza,
03:32reopening humanitarian routes in Egypt, Jordan, and other areas, and substantially make sure that people can get access to not just food, but to medical items.
03:41Well, these are the requests by the EU, and I hope the EU puts very strong scrutinizing measures on monitoring the compliance with the agreement.
03:53Because if we look at the last week since the agreement was made, we see more killings of people.
04:00We see people killed at the queuing points.
04:05We see children brutally murdered while in tents awaiting medical care from another tent.
04:12So these are the kinds of questions that need to be asked today, and asked in a very serious manner.
04:19And reports should not only come from Israel, because Israel has denied entry of journalists,
04:26has denied the work of a lot of the NGOs, and is not allowing anybody to come up with anything that is credible.
04:35Well, speaking of influence, your own president, Mahmoud Abbas, has called for Hamas to release the hostages immediately,
04:41to give their weapons up, to root out Hamas, and to essentially say that in any future Palestinian state,
04:47Hamas won't rule the Gaza Strip.
04:50But, I mean, the Palestinian Authority isn't even involved in any of the negotiations at the moment.
04:55It doesn't have any influence.
04:57The Palestinian Authority is very relevant, because the Palestinian Authority today functions in Gaza.
05:03We have people in the health sector, we have people in the education sector, in water, in energy, in social services.
05:10We have an operations room that has all the Palestinian ministries, it has most of the international organizations
05:16that meets on a regular basis and discusses issues in Gaza, and meeting the demands and the needs in Gaza,
05:23which we know are monumental and cannot be met by the Palestinian Authority alone.
05:28So, we are relevant.
05:30I mean, Hamas has ruled Gaza with an iron fist for nearly 20 years now,
05:35so the Palestinian Authority hasn't had influence in the way that you're saying it has,
05:39not from a cultural perspective or a political perspective.
05:42I mean, there's been so much violence against Palestinians by Hamas in the Gaza Strip,
05:47and the PA haven't been able to influence anything there.
05:49But not everybody in Gaza is Hamas.
05:52Of course, I'm not saying that at all, I'm just saying the way they rule Gaza.
05:56Yes, but things will change, and if people see a future that gives them some hope, going into the future whereby they are respected as human beings, things will fluctuate.
06:11One other issue though, I mean, let's say we're getting to that, is that there's always been complaints as far back as Yasser Arafat,
06:16but also the Palestinian Authority, the PLO, that there's deep corruption and nepotism within that organization.
06:21And you talk to young Palestinians, and they say the same thing.
06:25Okay, we don't support Hamas, but the alternative isn't going to lead us down a very strong path either.
06:32How can you persuade, in fact, not just persuade people, but how will you root out that level of corruption?
06:37Look, corruption is everywhere.
06:39I know, but that's not an excuse.
06:40It's not an excuse, but corruption is everywhere.
06:43And remember, we are under occupation, and occupation corrupts.
06:48Occupation corrupts.
06:50Well, culture exists anyway.
06:51Funding from outside corrupts, not being able to direct your organizations the way you want corrupts.
07:01So there are so many variables in Palestine that lead towards that end.
07:06That is not an excuse.
07:08But today, we have a reform and development agenda by this government in Palestine,
07:15and we're working on all aspects to curtail corruption, to decrease nepotism,
07:23to ensure that our organizations are governed by rules and regulations applicable to all.
07:29This takes time.
07:30Can you see any politician or political group in Israel that you could do business with
07:35to eventually have and create a Palestinian state?
07:38I mean, there's so much aggression and confrontation.
07:41It looks so further apart than it's ever been, really.
07:44Well, to tell you, I mean, with this rightist government, it's very difficult.
07:48Because if you hear what this government stands for, what the ministers utter, the incitement against the Palestinians,
07:55and anything that is Palestinian, it would be very difficult.
07:59But that doesn't mean that we should give up.
08:02We need, the Israelis should create the body that can take them onwards.
08:08And with the Trump administration, you see the ambassador to the United States to Israel is fully in support of just a one-state solution.
08:17I mean, do you have any hope now?
08:20Well, we keep the hope alive.
08:22Because we are two-staters and we believe that that two-state solution is the only viable solution.
08:29The ambassador, the U.S. ambassador in Israel needs to understand that if the two-state solution is not viable, the one-state solution is much less viable.
08:41Because Israel will not accept to be a democratic state for all its citizens.
08:46And we will not accept to continue leaving the status quo or an apartheid state.
08:50A lot of the Arab countries, in particular Egypt, but also Saudi Arabia, even Jordan,
08:56although the king of Jordan has been very vocal in his opposition to what Israel is doing,
09:00the other Arab countries have not been strenuously trying to support or push for international measures in support of Palestinians.
09:08Does that disappoint you?
09:09No, because today the Arab support is more than ever.
09:14But in Egypt it's not.
09:15I mean, the Egyptians are charging Palestinians an arm and a leg more money than they could ever afford
09:21to just simply leave the Gaza Strip and stay in Egypt for some safety.
09:25You see those stories all the time.
09:27No, but if you look at what, for example, I'll give you one example.
09:31When President Trump said about his intention to create the Riviera,
09:37there was very quick response from all Arab states, individually and collectively, on the no-displacement issue of Palestinians.
09:45And today, more than ever, they are adamant on ensuring that normalization will not happen unless there is a move towards a political path.
09:57And that's important.
09:59Do you believe then someone like Mohammed bin Salman in Saudi Arabia and the Qataris and so on,
10:05that they are actually actively, behind the scenes at least, pushing Trump to create a Palestinian two-state solution,
10:11or at least to stop the war in Gaza?
10:13I mean, do you have any information about that?
10:15I think all countries are sending messages to the United States on the immediate ceasefire,
10:25the entrance of humanitarian aid, the unimpeded entrance, the opening of the crossing, the easing up on the Gaza Strip,
10:35and the two-state solution.
10:37I mean, today, Saudi Arabia is co-sponsoring this international conference.
10:43So, today, Saudi Arabia is very vocal about no normalization unless there is a political path.
10:51And for us, Saudi Arabia is a very important Arab country.
10:55Okay.
10:56Just before I let you go, Dr. Shaheen, in the future Palestinian state, what does it look like to you?
11:01Obviously, there would have to be Israeli guarantees, security guarantees, and so on.
11:06Is it a pluralistic society?
11:08It would be a pluralistic society.
11:11There will be a place for women.
11:13I'm a woman, and I'm a minister of foreign affairs, and I'm Christian, and I'm from Armenian origin.
11:18Where would you find that?
11:21But you see it in Palestine.
11:24So, Palestine would be a place for everyone, everyone that is peace-loving, everyone that respects international law,
11:32everyone that respects any agreement signed by Palestine with its neighbors,
11:38and everyone that believes that Palestinians deserve to live and deserve to be contributors to the world, just like they have been.
11:46Okay, Dr. Farsan Shaheen, Palestinian foreign affairs minister, thank you very much for joining us on Euronews.
