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00:00Hi Noon, Jones and Keefe on WEEI.
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00:18It's been a while since we've talked to our next guest, Tom E. Curran, NBC Sports Boston, on a Tom E. Tuesday.
00:25Hi Noon. What's going on, Tom E. Curran?
00:28Great to be back.
00:30Great to be back. How are you guys doing?
00:31Very good.
00:32We're doing excellent.
00:33We've noticed it's tough to square away being bullish on the Patriots.
00:38I have them for nine wins. Keefe has them for ten.
00:40And then also acknowledging that they're lacking in high-end talent.
00:45Jeremy Fowler's coming out with all these top ten lists.
00:47NFL's doing its top hundred player countdown.
00:50Other various lists, CBS top 25, under 25, etc., etc.
00:54The Patriots are nowhere to be found on any of these lists.
00:57And yet we all have them for nine or ten wins.
01:00At least Keefe and I do.
01:01How do we square those two things away going into training camp next week?
01:04The sum is greater than the individual parts, basically.
01:12To me, you look at that.
01:14You look at presumed and perceived improvement from their most important player in Drake May.
01:20You look at presumed improvement on the offense.
01:24You look at presumed output from guys like Diggs.
01:27You look at presumed performance along an offensive line that's been a disaster annually.
01:33And you look at a schedule that's going to be that much easier.
01:35And a division that does not house, as it did last year.
01:39I mean, last year, the AFC East had like three of the teams that were in the top 12 going into the season,
01:47according to most preseason rankings.
01:50The Jets were seen as, with Rodgers coming back, a team that should be in the upper half.
01:54The Dolphins were a top 10 team, by most people's measures.
01:58And the Bills were the Bills.
02:00So I think you combine all of those things, and it's not just, you know, whistling past the graveyard.
02:06They are not talented in individual spots.
02:09But at least now they have players that you can go and say with a straight face, this is our guy.
02:16We're good with Morgan Moses, for instance.
02:19You know, you mentioned the Jets and the Dolphins there.
02:21Do you think with all the changes that all three of these teams have made, that the Patriots should be the second-best team in the division?
02:29Yeah, I do.
02:29I definitely do.
02:30I wrote something about that recently.
02:33I mean, the Dolphins are very much in transition mode.
02:36And I think that the buy-in with Mike McDaniel has seemed to wane drastically among the players.
02:42And I think he's been a good coach.
02:44I think he's an innovative coach.
02:45And everybody tends to, at some point, make a mistake or struggle in their first thought, regardless of who it is.
02:52And then he might be better down the road.
02:54But it seems as if it's a situation where, you know, the players are really having a hell of a lot more say than Mike McDaniel is.
03:02And the respect level seems to have waned.
03:05And then with the Jets, they have more individually talented players than the Patriots do.
03:13But they don't have a quarterback that you look at and say that's the answer, in my mind.
03:18No, and I think that's fair.
03:20They signed Fields this offseason.
03:22So I would give the checkmark to Drake May there.
03:25Speaking of him, we've talked a lot about a potential year-two leap for Drake May, how much better off can he be.
03:32What are your expectations for May on the field this season?
03:35Define that how you will.
03:38I think he'll be a hell of a lot better.
03:40I think he'll be a hell of a lot more comfortable.
03:43I am always fascinated by second-year quarterbacks who have had success as rookies.
03:50And it goes back to really watching it with Brady.
03:53Brady had success in his first year, obviously.
03:56In his second year, he made a lot of unforced errors.
03:59And a lot of it, and I remember talking to him about it, was trying to find out what he can't do.
04:05In his first year, he had the bumpers on in a lot of different situations and was trying to stay out of trouble.
04:13In his second year, he was a little bit more liberated to try and make things happen.
04:17I don't think he led the league, but he had his career high in interceptions that year.
04:24And he would underthrow deep receivers.
04:27And as his career went along, you can count on one hand the number of times he underthrew deep receivers.
04:33Chase Blackburn, 2011 Super Bowl.
04:35Just remember that.
04:36But it really was infrequent.
04:40And I think that Drake May is going to go through that kind of a season.
04:44Do I think that he's going to be a player who...
04:49Look at it this way, Josie.
04:52He should be at least two to one touchdowns to interceptions.
04:56He should be over 3,500 yards passing.
04:58Those would be things that I...
05:01And he should be over 500 yards, closer to 600 yards rushing.
05:06That would mean to me that he built on his first season.
05:12And those are just strictly numbers.
05:13We could do a million other ones.
05:15But what do you think of that?
05:16I agree.
05:17I mean, I think locally, most people are pretty high on Drake May.
05:21They like the rookie year.
05:23They look around and know they didn't have a lot to work with.
05:26He's got more to work with this year.
05:28Are expecting a year to jump.
05:29It's not unanimous.
05:30But I think pretty consistently, you hear people happy about Drake May and think he's going to have a good year, too.
05:37Nationally, this is a time where everybody's coming up with their own lists.
05:40And you have the players voting on the top 100.
05:42You have scouts and GMs on these anonymous polls on ESPN or wherever else.
05:47He's pretty consistently in the 20s.
05:49Like, when you rank starting quarterbacks 1 through 32, he finds himself in the 20s.
05:56Are you surprised by that and how he's viewed nationally?
05:59I'm not, because he's only won one game.
06:02And he was not the starter last year.
06:04And you can't put a guy who's only won one game ahead of, say, for instance, Geno Smith or Baker Mayfield
06:11or some of the guys who might be around 15, 16, 17, or 18.
06:14Well, Baker Mayfield, 15, 16, Tom.
06:17I know.
06:17He's like, nice.
06:18I take that back.
06:19I think he was nice on the ESPN thing, right?
06:22Yeah, he's not high enough on most of these lists.
06:24But I just, sorry.
06:25He's my guy.
06:25Yeah, I forgot the Baker thing.
06:27That's my guy.
06:28He's shotgunning beers at the Pro-Am.
06:30Yeah, yeah, yeah.
06:30Can't hate on him.
06:31He's a cool dude.
06:32Yeah.
06:33Be that as it may.
06:34I think that nobody has the opportunity to rise more drastically than May.
06:41And where would you think, if he's not, if you do an end-of-season ranking, objectively speaking,
06:49by January 15th, taking the regular season into consideration,
06:54I think it'd be a little disappointing if he's not in the top half.
06:58If he's not.
06:59I was going to say the exact same thing.
07:00If he's not in the top 15, I would be disappointed.
07:02Yes.
07:04And I think that's fair.
07:05And I don't think that's an unreasonable expectation to put on him.
07:08Can he rise to that?
07:09I don't think I've yet seen anything that indicates that he can't.
07:13I'd like to see him take care of the ball better at the end of games.
07:16But in terms of physical and mental toughness, buy-in, dedication,
07:21in terms of being part of the program and wanting it to work in New England
07:25and wanting to be the franchise quarterback here,
07:28I don't think people really have much to wring their hands about.
07:31Are you worried about durability at all?
07:33Because we were looking at some of those over-under numbers,
07:35and you had mentioned 3,500 yards passing.
07:37The Vegas line is like 3,250.
07:40The touchdowns is 19 and a half.
07:41And me and Jones last week were saying,
07:43those are easy over-locks if he plays 17 games.
07:48And last year, he wasn't even asked to start 17,
07:51and he got hurt in two of them.
07:53So is that a concern to you at all?
07:56Look at the way he got hurt, though.
07:58One was really dumb on his part,
08:02taking on too much in terms of trying to get a first down.
08:07I think it might have been a second down play.
08:09And he tried to stay inbound, and he got croaked.
08:14And that was his own stupidity.
08:17And I think that some of that, too,
08:18is guys in their rookie year want to show their teammates,
08:22the fan base, their coaches,
08:23that I'm willing to take a hit for this football team.
08:26Hopefully, it'll be more discerning this year.
08:28I think the other one was kind of a cheapie.
08:31Was it going down?
08:33That was the one against the Jets.
08:34That was at the end of a big play.
08:35Yeah, that was against the Jets.
08:36I don't think it was, was it Sherwood?
08:38I don't think it was fine for the hit,
08:40but I know what you're talking about.
08:41We had a lot of conversation.
08:42But, I mean, those are two.
08:44Those are, there's a way to protect yourself.
08:47In those situations, as opposed to a way to protect yourself,
08:50you know, from somebody landing on you.
08:54So, I would imagine that my, my feeling is his durability will be fine.
08:58Because I think he's very physically tough.
09:00So, I was going to ask, and it's related to his durability,
09:04and you said something interesting when you were talking about May
09:06and his projected numbers.
09:08Five or 600 yards rushing, which he was well on his way to doing last year
09:11if he played a 17-game schedule.
09:14And that's, you know, reflective of early career Josh Allen.
09:17We were looking at Allen's year one and year two numbers.
09:19That would align with what he did those two seasons.
09:21Do you think Vrabel and McDaniels are going to let him run?
09:24That's a great question because we've heard so frequently
09:28and in our conversations with Josh, too,
09:32how much he has learned in the year off
09:34and how many more things that he might implement.
09:36And he's never worked, really, with a quarterback like Drake May.
09:43I mean, Jimmy could move around,
09:44but you weren't going to ask him to run around.
09:47Brady, you're not going to ask him to get on the perimeter and run.
09:50Not really in Las Vegas.
09:52I mean, maybe Jake Plummer, excuse me, Jake Cutler could have run,
09:55but that was over before it started back in Denver.
09:57So, to me, he has an opportunity to take advantage of that.
10:02And if other teams like Washington or Buffalo are taking advantage
10:10and winning games, or Baltimore, obviously,
10:12because their quarterback is a dual threat,
10:15then the Patriots should take advantage of that as well.
10:18I do think that you should take advantage and presume success
10:23and don't presume injury.
10:25And I think there was a lot of that last year with Alex Van Pelt.
10:28I'm going to presume injury, so we're just not even going to run him.
10:31I don't want to see him running.
10:32Eh, I don't know, man.
10:34You've got to presume that the plays are going to work.
10:38Now, maybe when I think about it,
10:41maybe that's not the right way to go about it with the 2024 Patriots.
10:44Presume it's going to work.
10:46But anyway.
10:47It went south quite a bit.
10:49Training camp begins a week from tomorrow.
10:51What is the biggest or a couple of the biggest storylines in your mind
10:54going into camp?
10:57That's a great question.
10:58One is, is this defense as legitimately talented and cycling as it appears to be?
11:06We're going to find that out fairly early when Washington comes up in joint practices.
11:10That'll be a great opportunity, as will the opportunity to have joint practices with the Vikings.
11:15So you're going to play against two teams with young quarterbacks.
11:19J.J. McCarthy, the best young quarterback in the league by all measures,
11:22is going to have a day against that New England Patriots defense
11:25and bring them to an understanding of just the improvement they need to make
11:28the next time they see an elite quarterback.
11:30But I think those are going to be great opportunities for them.
11:35That's the number one.
11:36The number two is, what exactly does Josh McDaniels have in mind to try and evolve the offense
11:45from what it was when he was here previously?
11:48I would say a third would be, is this offensive line as stable as one would hope?
11:54And the last one to me is, and I mentioned this to Billy.
11:57I didn't know if he passed it on to you or not.
11:59You have $60 million in cap space still, $15 million more than the second highest in the league.
12:06What are you going to do with it?
12:08Are you interested in a Jawan Jennings just because you have the money and say,
12:11what the hell, we'll sign a second-tier receiver or a Terry McLaurin?
12:15And that might be pissing up a rope, but what are you going to do?
12:18You can't even, there's nobody left to extend.
12:23They have that much money.
12:24So to me, there is opportunity, and Vrabel said that he acknowledged that they would keep looking.
12:32There is opportunity to make a deal for a player that you would spend $25 million or more a year on
12:39on a new contract if he's disgruntled.
12:42How's that?
12:42I'm really tired of that.
12:43Well, that's good stuff.
12:43I'm ready for camp.
12:44That is good stuff.
12:45So what do you think they're going to do with it?
12:47Do you really think they're in on the McLaurin and maybe more specifically Jawan Jennings' of the world?
12:52I just don't think, I think that those guys say, hey, I want a new contract or I'm disgruntled or I'm going to hold out.
13:02I mean, Jennings is going to show up for training camp, so he's not really going rogue.
13:06So to me, I think that they would do that, but I don't really think that those guys are on the trading block.
13:11I think that Washington would be out of its mind to move during McLaurin after the season that Jaden Daniels had with him.
13:19I mean, it's the going rate.
13:20You've got to pay him $30 million.
13:21Tough.
13:22Do it.
13:22You know, the big storyline, or one of the big storylines last year emerged during camp with Matthew Judon showing up,
13:28not showing up, on the field, no pad.
13:30Next thing you know, he's traded.
13:32Is there any player currently on the Patriots roster to keep an eye on over the next couple of weeks that could be traded away
13:37rather than players they could bring in?
13:39The only three that I would look at would be all of whom were re-signed last year.
13:49And this is not saying that they would.
13:52But the only logic of doing that would be to escape massive cap hits.
13:56It doesn't make sense to trade Mike on Winnow, but he has such a ridiculously high cap hit, $21 million,
14:04by far the most on the team, and next year's is even more, that if he's not performing the way a stable linchpin offensive lineman ought to,
14:15maybe you see on that.
14:17Ramondre Stevenson has a contract that he hasn't played to, and Kyle Duggar has the second highest cap hit on the team.
14:23But all three of those guys, I think, are good, solid players, maybe somewhat overpaid in each instance.
14:32But if you're going to be good, you need good players.
14:35You don't want to get rid of what you presume to be good players.
14:38One more before we let you go here, at least one more from me, Tom.
14:41Bill Barnwell came out with his top 25 teams of the last 25 years in the NFL, NFL teams since 2000.
14:48He had four Patriots teams on that list.
14:51The 16 Patriots checked in 11th.
14:54The 03 Patriots checked in 7th.
14:58The 04 Patriots were No. 3.
15:00And the No. 1 team of the past 25 years was the 07 Patriots.
15:05How do you think he did?
15:06I agree.
15:06You do agree with that?
15:08I love that.
15:09I love that.
15:10I mean, the Patriots, I remember saying when that game ended, and it was the 42nd,
15:15the Patriots go from being the best team of all time to being the 43rd best team of all time.
15:21And it just builds because they didn't win a Super Bowl.
15:23But, yeah, no, I wholly agree with that.
15:26That level of dominance really only saw it from the Bears in 86 and maybe the 2000 Ravens.
15:34But that team on both sides of the ball with the Vrabels and the Harrisons and, you know,
15:40a side by Samuel for as much poop as he'll get for what happened in that game.
15:45And, I mean, that's a Pro Bowl level player.
15:48We could just talk about the players on those teams forever.
15:52Mankins.
15:55So, yeah, I love that.
15:56I was surprised that he did that.
15:59But I agree.
16:01Do you?
16:02I kind of do.
16:04I mean, I get the you have to win a title to be the team.
16:06And I think if the Patriots didn't have any other title teams, because I'd be like,
16:09oh, 04 was better because at least they won the whole thing.
16:12But there was never anything like the dominance in the regular season like that 07 brought.
16:18Like that team was insane.
16:19I think until the end of the year, I think they more than covered the spread in every game.
16:23And the spreads kept going higher and higher.
16:25And they still covered until a couple of close games late.
16:28But the other thing I wanted to ask you about was Robert Kraft was on with Edelman on one of his podcasts the other day.
16:35And he was asked about like one of the great moves that he is or the best movie ever made.
16:38And he went all the way back to trading a first round pick for Bill Belichick.
16:42What did you what did you think of that answer?
16:46I think that's a great answer.
16:48It really is because, you know, it was Bill or you're going to bring in Tom Donahoe and Dom Capers.
16:55Yeah.
16:55I mean, I remember I'm at the Metro West Daily News and I'm saying they should go hire Butch Davis.
17:01Yeah.
17:02That was my idea.
17:04From Miami, right?
17:05Oh, I like Butch Davis.
17:05Yeah, he took over all those.
17:06He might have been at Cleveland.
17:08He might have been.
17:08No, I'm sorry.
17:09Yeah, yeah, yeah.
17:10University of Miami and then went to Cleveland Browns.
17:12Yeah, yeah, yeah.
17:15But yeah, that was that was inspired, especially since everybody said, why do you want to hire that unmade bet?
17:21I mean, he's a disaster.
17:23Why do you want to do that?
17:24So it was really smart.
17:26So I like that answer.
17:29He's a duplicitous pond scum is is what he is.
17:32Bill Belichick, Robert Kraft, a compliment his way, which was interesting this week with Julian Edelman.
17:38Tommy Curran back on Jones and Keefe.
17:40High noon every Tuesday.
17:42It's Tommy Tuesday.
17:43Tom, we'll talk to you next Tuesday going into training camp.
17:46It's almost here.
17:47Yeah.
17:48Looking forward to it, guys.
17:49It's going to be a tremendous, tremendous season.
17:51Very interesting.
17:52I don't know if it's going to be tremendous on the field, but we're going to have a lot of fun right here on WEEI.
17:57All right.
17:57Great promo, Tom.
17:58Tommy Curran.
17:59Good stuff.
17:59Thanks so much.
18:01See you, boys.
18:01All right.
18:02Tommy Curran.
18:02Check him out on Twitter at Tommy Curran.
18:05So you and he both agree with 07, number one of the last 25 years.
18:08I mean, they were an absolute wagon.
18:11And it's one of those things where I know it's the nature of football, but every other league has a best of series.
18:17So, you know, like the 96 Bulls, they didn't sweep the Sonics in the NBA finals, right?
18:23Like they were, they might be the greatest basketball team of all time.
18:25They lost twice in the NBA finals.
18:28The Patriots lost one game all year by a couple of points.
18:31And it was with the craziest one-handed helmet catch that you've ever seen in your entire life.
18:36That team, like, was ridiculous.
18:39Like, it was, it was so good.
18:41I get your point.
18:42You got to win a championship.
18:43And I think most people agree with you.
18:44And Eli was down.
18:45Let's not forget that, too.
18:46Eli was down.
18:47It was in the grass.
18:48Now, let me tell you, the only other team in the top 10 for Barnwell was the 0-1 Rams that didn't win a title.
18:55Oh, see, they were also nasty.
18:56And I get that.
18:57And, like, both were the victims of huge upsets in the Super Bowl.
19:01And Kern brings up a great point.
19:03So, if you lose the Super Bowl, are you now worse than every Super Bowl team?
19:09No.
19:09And if you at least, okay.
19:10They're not worse than every Super Bowl team.
19:11Okay, but you at least open the door then to the discussion of, all right, you're better than some Super Bowl winners.
19:15I'm open to the discussion.
19:16So then I would keep moving them up then.
19:17If you lined them up, I know you can't do this, but the 0-4 Patriots played the 0-7 Patriots.
19:22Who wins?
19:23The 0-7 Patriots?
19:24The 0-4 Patriots.
19:26The 0-4 Patriots?
19:26Where's Randy Moss?
19:27I didn't see Randy Moss.
19:28The 0-4 Patriots ran into teams like the 0-7 Patriots.
19:31They were called the Indianapolis Colts.
19:32Which rules did they plan by?
19:33They dominated them.
19:34Can they hit guys or can they not hit guys?
19:35So, to me, can they be physical on defense?
19:37I would take 14 over 7.
19:39So, 0-4 and 14 are both insanely good teams.
19:422014 with Darrell Riggs.
19:43That team was, I think, wildly underrated in the history of...
19:47In Patriots franchise history, I think that team's wildly underrated.
19:49But just to open the door up to this conversation, 0-7 or...
19:520-7!
19:53Or 18.
19:55Oh, definitely 0-7.
19:55Yeah, right.
19:56So, I'm with you on that.
19:57I'm not saying 0-7, they're below every Super Bowl champion ever.
20:00That would be foolish.
20:01But I would take 0-4 and 14 over 0-7.
20:04It is a good...
20:05I'm not sure I would take any other one, but I would take those two.
20:08I got it.
20:09I think it's a fascinating debate because I think knee-jerk reaction, especially here,
20:14where there are so many championship teams, that you're like, well, no, you got to put
20:18the top championship teams up there.
20:20So, I very much understand that argument.
20:22But there are some teams, especially in football or, like, college basketball, where one and
20:26done knocks you out.
20:27Would you rank the 0-1 Rams ahead of the 16 Patriots?
20:29That's what Bill Barnwell does.
20:31Over the 16 Patriots.
20:32If the 0-1 Rams lost, the 16 Patriots were the come-from-behind team against the Falcons.
20:36Yes, I would.
20:37Greatest show on turf versus that team?
20:40Yeah.
20:41Dude, greatest show on turf.
20:43Hall of Famers across the board.
20:44I'd rank the 99 Rams.
20:45I mean, if we went all the way back to 99.
20:47That's why 0-1 is so impressive is because they did beat one of the 10 best teams of all
20:50time.
20:51I think I'd take...
20:52See, I think I'd take the 0-7 Patriots over the 0-1 Patriots.
20:55So would I.
20:56Yeah, right.
20:56But they didn't get to play them.
20:58The 0-1, they played greatest show on turf.
20:59But that's why it's so impressive.
21:01You know what I'm saying?
21:02Yeah, I do get what you're saying.
21:03It was a higher degree of difficulty than, for instance, the 0-4 Patriots just had to
21:06beat the Eagles.
21:07Yep.
21:07They also had to go through the Steelers and the Colts to get them.
21:09But I'm not making the argument that the 0-1 Patriots are the best, but that's why that
21:13story is so great and it was truly a David versus Goliath and all that because you can't
21:18hype up the 0-1 Patriots, the first Patriots won, and them being 14-point underdogs and then
21:25rank the 0-1 Rams the 50th best team of all time.
21:28That's why I kind of like where Barnwell has them ranked so high.
21:30Okay.
21:30Well, maybe we'll pick back through this when we talk more Patriots coming up at 1 o'clock.
21:34Not bad.
21:34Not bad.
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