Pardon the Interruption | Wilbon Reacts to Bronny Spoiling Cooper Flagg Debut in Mavs’ 87–85 Win

SportsLand

12/07/2025

🔥 On Pardon the Interruption, Michael Wilbon breaks down the electrifying Summer League showdown where Bronny James used gritty defense to spoil Cooper Flagg’s debut, helping the Dallas Mavericks secure an 87–85 win over the Lakers.

Wilbon highlights Bronny's game-turning defensive stop and the emotional energy swing it created. He credits the rookie Laker for rising to the moment, even as Flagg impressed elsewhere with 10 points, 6 rebounds, 4 assists, 3 steals, and a block. The segment emphasizes that Bronny’s impact was more than symbolic—it shaped the win. (reuters.com, as.com)

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00:00Wilbon has the day off. I'm joined by our great friend, the host of the podcast, Pablo Torre, finds out, Mr. Pablo Torre.

00:11A little sparse on the cheers. And we begin today by serving out the week with Wimbledon in the top spot.

00:18The gentlemen's semifinals were played today. Top-seeded Yannick Sinner beat Novak Djokovic in straight sets

00:24as Djokovic played an apparent discomfort, likely from a fall suffered the other day against Flavio Caboli.

00:30And second-seeded and defending champ Carlos Alcaraz lost the set, as is his fashion,

00:35but beat a game-competitive Taylor Fritz in four sets, winning the final set in the tiebreak.

00:40Pablo, what is your reaction to these results, and who do you like in the final?

00:45I like Alcaraz in the final, but I want to start with that phrase, apparent discomfort,

00:50because I just can't help but think of Novak Djokovic as having the discomfort befitting someone

00:55who must feel like a parent when he's out there with these young guys.

01:00Tony, this was supposed to be the last dance, and it's not going to be, it seems.

01:04That's the reporting we're getting out of Wimbledon now.

01:07And the last time I saw you, we were talking about Djokovic then.

01:11The whole idea of him being here, him being the third leg of a tripod with two way younger dudes,

01:17Sinner and Alcaraz, right? It's unbelievable.

01:19And so I want to get to Alcaraz and what he does. He's so creative, so consistent, all of that.

01:24But to me, the headline is actually, Novak Djokovic is not done yet.

01:29And I think we are watching him demand us to stand up and applaud, as you did the last time that we talked.

01:36Yeah, yeah. I mean, the big story today is Djokovic and what happened to him a couple of days ago

01:44at the tail end of the match with Koboli.

01:46And when he was able, when he had that split and he looked like he was in pain coming up out of the ground

01:51and then he served out the match and, you know, there was a sense, well, he's superhuman,

01:56so he's, of course, going to be OK with this.

01:59But it was obvious he was in a certain amount of pain.

02:02He actually, in the first couple of sets, to me, looked listless here and there.

02:06He dropped the first two sets very tamely.

02:08And then after the second set, he had treatment from a trainer in a medical timeout on the court.

02:15And he comes back and he wins the first three games of the third set, including a break.

02:19And I think to myself, OK, he's good right now.

02:22And he runs out of gas. He lost five games in a row to a superior player.

02:27He runs out of gas and he loses a set six to four.

02:29And I'll go back to what was said at the beginning of the tournament, where Djokovic said,

02:34this may be my last best chance to get to 25 majors.

02:38Well, now at 38 and injury prone to a degree over the last couple of years,

02:44it does not look like he's going to make it because Sinner and Alcaraz are that good.

02:50I mean, Taylor Fritz played great today.

02:52Alcaraz was better.

02:53Every important point you said to yourself, I think Alcaraz is going to win this point.

02:57You know, I mean, you watch it for yourself.

03:00He's in a position now to win Wimbledon three times in a row, a three-peat.

03:05If he does that, here is who he joins, Pablo.

03:08He joins Bjorn Borg, Pete Sampras, Roger Federer, and Novak Djokovic.

03:14That's the elite level of tennis.

03:17That's the celebrity lounge.

03:19And we are in the process of seeing two guys who may be a great—

03:24they're better than Djokovic.

03:25They may be better than everybody.

03:27They may be a great rivalry for years.

03:30But hold on, the Alcaraz thing, right?

03:31I'd like to imagine that lounge you just described because, historically speaking,

03:35I don't know of a better athlete than Alcaraz when it comes to the guys in that lounge.

03:40I'm curious, does this mean that you are moving him into all-time status already?

03:46Is this comfortable for you?

03:48If he wins three—

03:48Just saying, this young guy.

03:49Yes, if he wins three straight Wimbledons, yes, absolutely.

03:54Borg probably got it at a similar age.

03:56Yes, absolutely, if he wins three straight.

03:58Yeah.

03:59All right, let's move to another young guy looking for all-time status.

04:03Cooper Flagg had a summer league debut.

04:05I know how much you love summer league, Tony.

04:07The top pick in the draft struggled from the floor, going 0 for 5 from 3, 5 for 21.

04:11Overall, Flagg finished with 10 points, 6 rebounds, 4 assists, 3 steals.

04:16What he said might have been one of the worst games of his entire life.

04:19So, what stood out to you about Flagg's debut there?

04:23Okay, so let me divest myself very early on of my prejudices.

04:27Okay, I am philosophically opposed to make something out of nothing.

04:32Summer league NBA games are nothing.

04:35NFL exhibition preseason games are nothing.

04:40They're just nothing.

04:40There was nothing short of Cooper Flagg scoring 60 points that would in any way influence anything

04:47he does in his NBA career from this point.

04:50And by the way, on the court with him are mostly guys who are not going to ever play in the NBA.

04:56This is not a real game.

04:59This is a workout.

05:01So, we're not going to take anything from it.

05:03But I did, you know, thank you for letting me get that off my chest.

05:06I did watch 15 or 20 minutes, and two things did stand out to me.

05:09One thing was, I'm not sure Cooper Flagg handles the ball as well as he might think he handles the ball.

05:17Even guys like this are quicker and more physical on defense,

05:21and he's going to have to learn to protect the ball as he dribbles up the court.

05:25That's one thing.

05:26The second thing is how lithe, L-I-T-H-E, how lithe Cooper Flagg is.

05:32I mean, he soars up there.

05:34Like, when he completely stretches out, he looks like a pterodactyl.

05:38Pterodactyl, he's going to be very hard to guard.

05:42Well, your last comment about the, I believe, Mesozoic era brings me back to the first thing you said about yourself,

05:51which is that you don't like making something out of nothing.

05:53I pay this as a compliment.

05:55I believe you do that better than anybody in this business, and you've been doing it for your whole career.

05:59So, with that compliment being paid, making something out of nothing, I want to get to Summer League, right?

06:05Which I agree.

06:06Tony, I've been, I'm old enough to remember at this point, Markel Fultz impressing me.

06:12I'm old enough to remember Ben Simmons impressing me, right?

06:15Fellow number one overall picker.

06:16I'm like, hey, we got something.

06:18And it turns out to be, of course, the smallest, most vanishing, literally vanishing of samples.

06:23But the thing you said about Cooper Flagg not being as good at dribbling as he thinks he is,

06:28the question to me is not, does Cooper Flagg think that?

06:32It's, does Jason Kidd know that?

06:35Jason Kidd's whole plan is, we got the future.

06:38The future looks like seven feet tall, dribbling.

06:41He wants seven foot pistol Pete Maravich, he can get him.

06:44Cooper Flagg is going to be thrown into a situation where he'll have every opportunity.

06:48Is that best for him?

06:50That's fascinating to me.

06:52No, I agree with that.

06:54But I mean, if down the road, I mean, because I think he'll adapt.

06:58I think he'll understand the defenders, you know, and how quick they are and how strong they are.

07:02If down the road, he's Kevin McHale or Tim Duncan, that'd work out pretty well, wouldn't it?

07:07Let's go to baseball.

07:08And last night's Yankees-Seattle game.

07:11The Yankees were down 5-0.

07:12They'd been no hit through seven innings by Brian Wu.

07:15Jazz Chisholm singled to open the eighth, and after a second hit and a sack fly, Wu came out with the score 5-1.

07:22Giancarlo Stanton then hit a pinch hit home run to make it 5-3.

07:26The Yankees tied the game at 5-5 in the ninth.

07:28They won it 6-5 in the tenth on an Aaron Judge sack fly with a very close play at the plate.

07:34Pablo, what's the word you would use to describe this win?

07:38Love playing this game in the A block.

07:40Proustian.

07:41Tony, reminds me of my childhood.

07:43This is a throwback.

07:45I am used to the Yankees feeling both rich and blessed.

07:50Lucky and good.

07:52And this season, here's a statistic.

07:54Yankees were 0-35 all year when trailing through eight innings.

07:59Of course, over 23 when trailing by three runs or more at any point in a game this season.

08:03So it has been bad.

08:05Okay?

08:05This season has felt like, ah, beginning of it was, ah, look, postseason.

08:10Let's get there.

08:11Feel confident.

08:11Now it's, everything feels like a for sale sign.

08:15I don't feel attached to anything necessarily.

08:18But this game, in a microcosm of a season, is like, I just need a feeling like this because it's been so brutal for the last two months.

08:26I know how much you like the Yankees.

08:30And I know how old you are.

08:33I'm double your age.

08:35So my word here is Yankeiness.

08:37And it's a hyphenated word.

08:39It's not a real word, but it should be.

08:41Because, Pablo, long before you were born, I watched the Yankees do this.

08:45My whole youth was spent watching the Yankees be great, watching Mantle and Berra and Ford be great, watching Maris and Kubik and Richardson be great.

08:54You know, watching them dominate the American League and then, because you didn't have interleague play, dominate the National League team in the World Series.

09:03The Yankees have won 27 World Series.

09:06The next team is the Cardinals with 11.

09:09That's domination, Holmes.

09:10This is what I saw as a kid.

09:13And I was a Mets fan, so I hated it.

09:15They had better players and more better players than everybody else had.

09:20And not only that, but when they traded for somebody or acquired somebody, that guy got better on the spot.

09:27Reggie Jackson was great in Oakland.

09:30Greater with the Yankees.

09:32Don Larson couldn't beat anybody.

09:34He was 3-21 one year in Baltimore.

09:37Comes to the Yankees, throws a perfect game in the World Series.

09:40Yankees.

09:41That's what it is to me.

09:42Yankees.

09:44This is a paleontology.

09:46You're taking me back historically farther than I can actually remember.

09:49And I think most people can actually put a name to any of those faces.

09:55God bless.

09:56I can.

09:57Most people can.

09:58Later on, we'll talk about the Patty Duke show.

10:00Let's take a break.

10:02Coming up, the Dodgers have lost six straight.

10:04We will ask Tim Kirchner, what's wrong with them?

10:08We'll also ask him about Alex Bregman's return to the red-hot Red Sox.

10:13You put on the pinstripes and you got better.

10:16I don't know if that's still true.

10:18But historically, the Yankees can win a game like this.

10:21Other teams don't.

10:21Let's dig back into baseball with our great friend making his second appearance of the week, which could be a PTI record.

10:33ESPN MLB analyst, Mr. Tim Kirchner, Tim, let's start with this.

10:37The Dodgers are back on the field tonight.

10:39They're against the second-place Giants.

10:42The Dodgers have lost six straight games.

10:45What is happening there?

10:49Yeah, this is pretty bad right now.

10:51They've been outscored 43-10 during those six games.

10:55And against the Brewers, who are pretty good, by the way, the Dodgers went one for an 18 with runners in scoring position.

11:03So all sorts of things are going wrong.

11:05But the biggest thing is, and no sympathy required, but they've had 15 pitchers on the disabled list, including three-fifths of their starting rotation.

11:15And now Max Muncy, who's been one of their hottest hitters, he's on the injured list also.

11:21And yet the Dodgers are still five games ahead in a pretty good division.

11:25So once they get healthy, I have every faith in them that they will be the best team in baseball going into October.

11:34But right now they've got to get healthy first, and they've got to start to get some hits with runners in scoring position.

11:40So, Tim, the Dodgers losing six in a row.

11:43The Red Sox winning seven in a row.

11:45Alex Bregman coming back.

11:46He had that left quad, excuse me, the right quad injury.

11:50He could walk on that quad after the season.

11:53Do you think the Red Sox might let that happen, letting Bregman go?

11:59Well, he can opt out of the contract.

12:02Scott Boris is his agent, so that is always a possibility.

12:06But I don't see them trading him for fear of that opt-out because, as you said, they've won seven games in a row.

12:13They're back in the wild card race.

12:15They're back in the division race.

12:17Suddenly they look like a dangerous team.

12:20So I think the most likely thing is if he opts out, the Red Sox will try to re-sign him after the season.

12:27He really likes it there.

12:29They really like him there.

12:31It's a perfect fit in a lot of ways.

12:33But that contract is such that he can get out after a year, and he very well might.

12:39But I think the Red Sox really want to keep him long-term.

12:41I want to talk about youth for a second here, Tim.

12:45The arms in particular.

12:46Jacob Mizorowski was great against the Dodgers this week.

12:48Paul Skeens due back on the mound tonight.

12:52How enthusiastic do you allow yourself to get about these young arms, knowing, of course, the arm issues that so many of these guys end up having?

13:00Yeah, it's discouraging.

13:02It's almost inevitable that every really good young pitcher that we see eventually is going to have a major arm injury.

13:09As we've said, there are three leagues in the major leagues, the AL, the NL, and the IL, and that's not going to change anytime soon.

13:16So I'm just going to enjoy it while these guys are healthy.

13:20Paul Skeens has made 42 starts and has a 1.95 ERA.

13:25That is historically low.

13:28Jacob Mizorowski has been ridiculously good.

13:31In his first 11 innings in the big leagues, he didn't allow a hit.

13:34So let's just watch these guys enjoy them with the understanding that someday, like all pitchers, with the max effort they have on every pitch they throw, eventually they're going to get hurt.

13:47I will just refer back to something you said a couple of minutes ago, that the Dodgers have 15 pitchers, you said.

13:5315 pitchers hurt.

13:54I mean, that's remarkable.

13:56We will get you out of here on this.

13:57The major league draft is this Sunday.

14:00Now, baseball draftees, they have a longer gestation period than NBA draftees or NFL draftees.

14:07But are there any names we should know?

14:09And I'm particularly interested in this because my staggering, stumbling Washington Nationals, I believe, have the first overall pick.

14:15The guy I think you should keep an eye on is Ethan Holiday, who, of course, is the brother of Jackson Holiday, the leadoff hitter for the Orioles, and the son of Matt Holiday, who was a really good player for a long time in the big leagues.

14:32Ethan is a high school shortstop.

14:35He has the highest ceiling from almost everyone I talk to in this draft.

14:41There's a chance someday he's going to be a 35 to 40 home run guy.

14:45And even though people think someday he might have to move to a corner position, third base or first base, he's a shortstop right now.

14:54And, you know, range is minimized in the big leagues now.

14:57Positioning is done by the data more than anything else.

15:00I think he's going to stay a shortstop for a while.

15:03And the Nationals have been known over the years, at least when Mike Rizzo was there, to go with the highest ceiling with the number one pick.

15:11I'll be curious. It's Sunday. Let's take one last break.

15:15Oh, I'm sorry. Thank you.

15:16Tim is here so often, I didn't feel like I'm going to have to thank him anymore.

15:20Thank you, Tim.