00:06the first European leader invited for such since King Charles III took the throne.
00:11And the first since, Prime Minister Keir Starmer said he wanted to reset relations with the UK and the rest of Europe,
00:17hoping to break down barriers that formed due to Brexit.
00:20Macron is set to address the British Parliament, co-chair a meeting on Ukraine,
00:24before being treated to a state dinner with the Francophile King, and then attend a Franco-British summit,
00:30where defence ties migration are expected to be discussed.
00:35Well, to get more insight on Franco-British relations, we can speak now to Associate Professor in French and Francophone Studies at the University of Nottingham,
00:42Mr. Paul Smith. Mr. Smith, thanks for your time.
00:45A resetting of relations, we're being told, but how are things between France and the UK as far as you see it?
00:51Well, they're certainly better than they have been in the past.
00:55Macron and Starmer get on well.
00:58Macron invited Starmer to Paris even before Starmer was elected.
01:02So that's really important.
01:04I mean, people talk about agency and the importance of individuals in international diplomacy,
01:10and I think that's making enormous difference after the very difficult years of, people say, Johnson and Trust,
01:17but even before that, Theresa May, we had a long period of antagonism between France and Britain.
01:23And personally, I'm very grateful to see that that is over, and we have a very different kind of,
01:28certainly a very different rhetorical approach on both sides of the channel.
01:33Were you speaking there?
01:34I mean, it was the Conservative politicians where relations seemed to break down,
01:38but that, of course, was also the time of the UK's departure from the EU.
01:43What ties were broken, and, you know, what does the UK hope to restore now?
01:49Well, Starmer's made it very clear, or in a sense made it unclear,
01:53when he was campaigning for election in 2024,
01:58that he wasn't looking at Britain going back into the EU or even into the single market.
02:06But what he wants to do is to improve the relationship.
02:09It's very difficult from the British perspective, the perspective of Starmer.
02:13We have a very strong pro-Brexit media that endlessly is on his back in that regard.
02:22So, in fact, he kind of refused to make Labour the party of re-entry.
02:28And so that was quite frustrating, I suppose, for quite a lot of people.
02:33But you're absolutely right that it's really Brexit that underpins this.
02:36There's a saying in British politics, if you're in trouble, blame the French.
02:39And a lot of people spent a lot of time blaming the French for problems that were really made in the UK.
02:45And France kind of became the focus for Brexit.
02:49So, behind the EU, in fact, a lot of people in Britain, certainly Farage and company,
02:55would see France as being the focus.
02:58And, of course, there's the issue of small boats crossing the channel,
03:01which really focused in on that relationship.
03:05But, you know, at the bigger level of strategy of the situation in Europe
03:10with regard to Ukraine in the Middle East, relationships with President Trump,
03:15there are so many more issues on which actually France and Britain can cooperate and get on well.
03:22And that's a very important point of these talks, as you mentioned in the introduction.
03:28Indeed, you're mentioning some of the main topics we believe will be up for discussion.
03:32Perhaps let's look at the migration one to start with.
03:34We are hearing that there's been, you know, a 50% increase in the number of people
03:38crossing that English channel from France to the UK in the first six months of this year.
03:43And the British are paying the French police to do that.
03:46What is the view from there and what are they hoping to see change?
03:49Well, I think that the things are beginning to change.
03:52We saw a very aggressive approach by the police at the weekend, slashing boats, for example.
04:01Starmer's made it his policy not so much to stop the boats, but to smash the gangs.
04:05That's been his rhetoric.
04:08So closer work at the, as we can see from the images there, at the kind of the sharp end on the beaches,
04:14but also working harder to smash the gangs.
04:18And also there are negotiations going on about the UK taking some asylum seekers and France receiving,
04:26so where there are families, but also France taking back other categories of asylum seekers.
04:32So that there's underneath this kind of the, not superficial by any means, but the outward level,
04:39there are negotiations going on for sort of at a lower level to organise repatriation or movement of migrants.
04:51And when it comes to defence, I mean, they're going to have this,
04:54they're going to co-chair a meeting about Ukraine.
04:56But overall, you know, how close have France and the UK remained when it comes to defence cooperation?
05:02Well, I think they're much closer than people think.
05:05There's been, you know, the two nuclear powers in the European Union,
05:11or sorry, not in the European Union, but in Europe, not continental Europe and the UK.
05:16Starmer is talking about equipping Britain with not just submarine-based nuclear weapons,
05:22but also air-based nuclear weapons.
05:23And that's a completely new departure.
05:26So they're very close in that regard.
05:27And actually, even with all the rhetoric that's been going on over the past years,
05:32the two countries are much closer in terms of strategy.
05:36Britain was much more stringent in its opposition to Putin.
05:39For a while after the invasion of Ukraine by Russia,
05:44Macron tried to keep Putin in the room by negotiating, by talking to him.
05:49That didn't work. But the two sides, certainly Starmer and Macron are now very much closer in terms of their overall approach.
05:58And of course, that then extends.
06:00They start as the kind of core, and then you add in the Germans, and another key player is Poland.
06:05So there are lots of different layers of this diplomacy.
06:09I know that people sort of say, oh, Europe isn't working because you can't do this.
06:11Well, actually, it's a bit more complicated than that.
06:14And that's just the way it is.
06:17But Britain and France are really the kernel, if you like, of that.
06:22And it starts with London and Paris, and then it grows outward.
06:27And that strength actually is based on that kind of common values shared by Britain and France.
06:36And here, embodied by, of course, Macron and Starmer, but also King Charles.
06:43And he's playing a very important role, actually, in the kind of the diplomatic showcasing, if you like, of that relationship.
06:51And again, you use the word francophile, and that's really important to understand about King Charles.
06:58His role is very important.
07:01Indeed, Mr. Smith, that was going to be my final question.
07:03This is a state visit.
07:05It's an invitation from the king.
07:07You know, how significant is that?
07:08What do we expect to see between King Charles and Emmanuel Macron?
07:13I think he's, well, I wouldn't want to second guess what His Majesty is going to do.
07:17But I think that there is, you know, I think he was very touched when, by Macron's response to the death of the queen.
07:24When, you know, Macron made this really rather touching tribute.
07:28And that kind of reinforced this sense of the bond, despite the fact that one's a republic and one's a, you know, we go back to the Entente Cordiale.
07:36We go back to a real special relationship, actually.
07:40And King Charles knows exactly the importance of the show.
07:45And so the first thing that happens is we have a meeting between the president of the French Republic and the British monarch.
07:54And that kind of consolidates things.
07:56And in terms of the show on top of the, you know, what's happening at the macro and the micro level,
08:05that's enormously important to show that relationship and that it's Macron, the president of the French Republic,
08:10who is the first kind of official state visit ahead of the presidency of the United States of America.
08:17And again, the king is sending a very clear sign to the world, not of his power, because, you know, it's not that the monarchy doesn't have a great deal of hard power.
08:27It has no hard power, really.
08:28But soft power diplomacy is equally important, I think, in this situation.
08:33One might like that or one might not like it.
08:36But it's very important that Macron is seen and France is seen, because France does also represent Europe to a certain extent in this scenario.
08:45And that's seen as being important to the British establishment.
08:48Paul Smith of the University of Nottingham.
08:50Thanks so much for joining us and bringing us your insight on those Franco-British relationship.
