- 7/2/2025
On "Forbes Newsroom," Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-FL) excoriated the Big Beautiful Bill, lambasting Republicans who support it as willing "to have a lot of people die," as Speaker Johnson attempts to win enough support to pass it on President Trump's favored July 4th deadline.
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00:00Hi, everyone. I'm Maggie McGrath, senior editor at Forbes. The Trump-backed GOP agenda bill has
00:10narrowly passed the Senate, with Vice President J.D. Vance casting the tie-breaking vote on
00:16Tuesday. House Speaker Mike Johnson wants Congress to vote on the bill Wednesday or
00:21Thursday. But will this deeply unpopular bill pass? Joining us to discuss is Congresswoman
00:27Debbie Wasserman Schultz. She represents Florida's 25th District. Congresswoman,
00:33thank you so much for joining us. Thanks for having me, Maggie. Good to be with you.
00:37You have a busy day. And in fact, earlier today, you spoke on the floor of Congress and called this
00:42bill, quote, a vile Republican plunder of working families, seniors and veterans. Four recent polls
00:50would show that Americans agree with you. On average, 55 percent of Americans who've been asked
00:55about this bill oppose it, while 31 percent support it. Broadly speaking, can you give us an overview
01:01of exactly how those working families you referenced will be affected by this agenda?
01:07Sure. In several different, really concerning ways. First, the bill from coming back from the Senate
01:14kicks 17 million people off of their health care. And that is a combination of people on Medicaid,
01:22as well as people who would no longer qualify for subsidies to reduce the cost of their premiums in
01:29the Affordable Care Act. That's because Republicans made these massive restrictions that will end up
01:37causing people to lose their health care. In addition to that, it makes massive cuts, four billion dollars
01:45in cuts to SNAP benefits, nutrition assistance cuts that essentially tell our veterans who use SNAP
01:53benefits, our children, our disabled, our elderly, you are going to have to go hungry and figure out how
02:00to put food on your table because we're not going to provide nutrition assistance for you anymore.
02:05It also is going to force many rural hospitals to close because of those Medicaid cuts,
02:11as well as nursing homes, because the overwhelming majority of nursing homes in this country have a
02:17high percentage of their patients who are in their nursing homes paid for by their Medicaid coverage.
02:24There are many more things, but the other massive problem is that at the same time, it has these
02:30horrendous cuts. It also blows a $4 trillion hole in the deficit and a $5 trillion increase in the debt
02:39ceiling. That's so that Republicans can make enough room in the debt ceiling to transfer and give the
02:47most massive increase in tax cuts targeted at millionaires and billionaires and the well-off.
02:55And that is all, this entire bill, that is the ultimate goal of this entire piece of legislation.
03:02So it's extremely troubling. The deficit portion is especially troubling because
03:09it triggers a $500 billion cut in Medicare because the increase in the debt in a deficit is so
03:17significant. Is there any part of this bill that you agree with or that you think would provide
03:24value to the American people? This is the most troubling, abominable bill that I have ever had in
03:35front of me as a legislator in my entire career. I have not really, I can't really recall a time when
03:43I had legislation in front of me that had no redeeming qualities whatsoever. It doesn't have to be that
03:48way. We could certainly make reforms and we could certainly, you know, work together. But this is a,
03:55but this is a MAGA extremist Trump bill that was rammed through originally in the House in the dark of
04:01night. We voted on into three in the morning. We had no time to review it. And essentially that's
04:07what they're doing with the bill that came back from the Senate. Only the bill that comes back from
04:11the Senate is even worse than what was passed out of the House. Even worse, yet you reference reforms.
04:17And this might be a more procedural question, but just how much of the bill could change as
04:23Congress debates it? Are there any parts that could be dialed back and made more perhaps reasonable in
04:30your view? Well, certainly if the Republicans decided to work with Democrats and reached across
04:36the, uh, the rotunda and worked in the Senate and went back rather than ramming, go at the Senate,
04:42Senate passed last night through the House or attempting to ram it through it. We could go to
04:47a conference committee and a conference committee would require input and feedback from Democrats
04:52still in the majority. They would control much of that process, but there would have to be in
04:56negotiation. And in negotiation, we've been able many times over the years I've been in Congress to
05:02reach a bipartisan budget deal that ensures that things like making sure the tax cuts are targeted to
05:11the middle-class and working families, as well as people who are already successful and make sure that we
05:16have more balanced changes to healthcare programs. We certainly don't want people to get Medicaid that
05:23aren't eligible for it. The Republicans are making up that there are these millions of people, according
05:29to them, that are on Medicaid who are undocumented. That's already against the law. And there are not
05:34people who are undocumented that are getting Medicaid. So unfortunately, the, the, the, the lying that
05:41is taking place on the Republican side about what's, what, what this bill really does is, uh, I think
05:47making things worse for them rather than making it easier. I started this conversation, citing a few
05:54different pieces of polling that show how broadly unpopular the quote unquote, big, beautiful bill is.
06:00What are you hearing from your Republican colleagues? Do they see voting for it as a threat to their
06:05reelection chances? And as such, are they considering voting? No.
06:09Well, they should. I mean, I think that just like in 2018, when they tried unsuccessfully to take the
06:18Affordable Care Act away and repeal it and yank healthcare away from even, even more people, uh,
06:24voters rejected it and rejected them. And Democrats won the majority of the house of representatives.
06:29Uh, when we're, what we're talking, I'm a, I'm a breast cancer survivor. And, and I know from just
06:35growing up with parents who always said to me, Debbie, if you don't have your health, you don't
06:39have anything. And I learned that firsthand when I found a lump in the shower doing a routine self
06:44exam. And when I was 41 years old, I became a breast cancer patient. And when you're staring down
06:49the barrel of your life and on top of that, Republicans now are going to tell people who might
06:56be diagnosed with cancer that, you know, no, we're taking away your healthcare coverage. So you're
07:01going to have to just figure it out for yourself. That means that, that you're going to
07:04have a lot of people die. I mean, this legislation will kill people because you can die as a result
07:12of not being able to go afford to go to the doctor and get a problem taken care of like cancer, which
07:17went caught early in many cases because of the incredible research progress we've made can actually
07:22be resolved for someone and they can survive their cancer diagnosis. But Republicans don't care.
07:29They don't care about the increased costs. They, they promised that they were going to focus on
07:34affordability. And instead, what they're doing is focusing on their wealthy supporters and
07:40their increasing costs in this legislation massively for people who can least afford it. And that's
07:46really unpopular because, you know, for the most part in America, um, our folks care about one
07:52another, that they don't want to see healthcare yanked away from people that they know need it. They
07:57don't want to see children go hungry and not be able to get, you know, assistance for their school
08:02lunch program, or for families not to be able to have assistance for their groceries. And kids have
08:07to skip meals or people or parents have to go hungry so that their kids eat. Who, in what moral
08:13universe is it okay to take away people's healthcare, cut their nutrition assistance, so people go hungry,
08:20all so that you can give more tax breaks to the wealthiest, most fortunate Americans. I think that you're
08:26seeing polling, Maggie, because you have a lot of moral people who are telling the immoral, immoral,
08:32my immoral colleagues who've presented this bill that, that they need to stand out.
08:39Those are important stories because the Congressional Budget Office estimates that this bill,
08:45if passed, would reduce federal spending on Medicaid by nearly $1 trillion. And that is such a large
08:50number that it's hard to conceptualize. So what you're describing, Congresswoman, is a real world cost in which
08:55people lose their lives because of this bill. They do, because if you can't afford, when you have
09:01Medicaid, that is healthcare insurance coverage. It is subsidized health insurance coverage by the
09:08state for people who fall into a certain income bracket. And that means that if you have Medicaid
09:14coverage, when you, when your child has the sniffles, like they're on the CHIP program, the Children's Health
09:19Insurance Program, or when they have fever, or when you, like I did, find a lump, and you're on
09:25Medicaid, then you can go to a doctor, and you can get that lump checked out, and you can have
09:30a mammogram and preventative care, and maybe catch that illness early. When your Medicaid coverage gets
09:38yanked from you because of this bill, because you can't do, you can't make a trillion dollars in cuts
09:44to this program and say that it's only people who, you know, fall into the waste, fraud, and abuse
09:50category. I mean, there's just not a trillion dollars of individuals who are on Medicaid due to
09:57waste, fraud, and abuse. That's just outrageous and, and, and unrealistic and false. And so what
10:04you're doing is you're taking away that lifeline, that safety net, the ability for people to be able
10:09to make sure that they can take care of healthcare challenges at their start and survive them, and then
10:15just get basic access to well care. You know, go in and get a checkup. Make sure that you actually
10:21stave off illness. Make sure that we don't cut people's nutrition assistance, and that they can put
10:27food on their table. You know, the people I serve with in Congress who are planning to vote for this
10:33bill, they don't have to worry about when them, where their next meal is coming from. They don't have to
10:38worry about, you know, what they're putting in their grocery basket when they're food shopping.
10:41And, and it's just callous, and indifferent for them to not be thinking about the consequences of
10:49their vote. This is another perhaps procedural question. But some of your Republican colleagues
10:54are suggesting that the July 4th deadline is an arbitrary one. How likely? When when will it be
11:02resolved? In your view? When could it be resolved? See, and let me tell you how it's arbitrary. Because
11:07normally, when we are in a situation like we're in right now, where they've called us back in
11:11to a session, you know, in the middle of a in the middle of a recess. They do that when we're
11:17coming up, I'm a senior member of the Appropriations Committee. So at the end of a fiscal year, when we
11:23haven't finished the budget, we will have, you know, vote situations like this, where we're up against
11:30a deadline. If we don't pass the budget, the government shuts down. That also happens in some
11:36instances when the debt ceiling is reached. And the Treasury Department has said, you know, we're going
11:43to meet reach the United States's debt ceiling limit. And it you know, in in on around x state,
11:50and Congress has to go into session if we haven't already taken care of this, and increase the debt
11:55ceiling, increase our borrowing, make sure that we can pay our bills, which is what the debt ceiling is.
12:00And that's a real deadline. This is made up. This is that Donald Trump decided he wanted to sign this
12:05big, ugly bill on July 4. There's nothing magic or important or essential about it. It's just an
12:12artificial deadline that's tied to the messaging that the Republicans want want to do. But instead,
12:17we should be responsible and we should sit down together and try to figure out if we can really get
12:23a compromise. And if we can't, then they should set this bill aside and start over.
12:27If you can't reach a compromise, we should set this bill aside and start over. Now, let's say the bill
12:34passes as is. If Democrats take back the House in the 2026 midterms, what is the party's ability to
12:42claw back some of the more damaging parts of the bill at that point in time?
12:48Well, I mean, a lot of damage will have been done, but you can definitely change eligibility
12:53so that we're bringing, you know, a lot of those people or most of those people or really all of
12:59them back into the Medicaid coverage window. You can make sure that you undo the snap changes so that
13:10nutrition assistance is available again. You know, we can make sure that we eliminate the student loan
13:17changes, which are terrible, that are going to hurt really a lot of students who are trying to get a
13:22higher education and they've severely restricted student loan access in this bill. We can undo
13:28those changes. And there's also a whole lot of other things. We can undo the clean energy tax credits
13:35that they are eliminating over time in this bill. That's going to drive people's energy costs up.
13:40It's going to make the United States energy industry less competitive. There's a whole lot of things
13:47that we that if we win the majority in November of 2026, which I believe we will, because I think
13:54there'll be a backlash to this, to this decision if this becomes law. But there'll be damage that will have
14:00been done. I mean, between now, from what between when this bill becomes law, if it does, and when we win the
14:05majority back, there will be people who will have died, there will be rural hospitals that will have been closed and
14:11likely won't reopen the nursing homes, too. And, you know, people who are in those rural areas already
14:17have a difficult time getting access to health care because of how far away some of those these
14:22facilities are. If the ones that are closer close, they're going to really be in trouble.
14:27So what are the next steps for Democrats at this point, and especially with messaging? What are you
14:32hearing from your colleagues? And what do you yourself plan to do in the coming days and weeks?
14:37For us, what we're doing is we're doing everything we can to amend this bill. We had, you know,
14:44hundreds of amendments that Democrats filed to this legislation last night that we presented at the
14:49Rules Committee. Maggie, all of them were rejected by Republicans, every single one, because they are
14:56hellbent on taking care of their billionaire donors. And again, and hellbent on taking health care away
15:03from 17 million people and nutrition assistance from from several million more than that. The
15:10cruelty seems to be the point. And so we've got to get the message out. We're all we're doing social
15:15media, we are presenting amendments, we're holding town hall meetings, we're using the procedural motions
15:21we have available to us on the House floor, to try to slow this down. Because the more that we can put the
15:27brakes on this legislation, then the more we can get the word out about the really terrible provisions
15:34that are in it and how badly it'll hurt people, so that they can put pressure on the Republicans that
15:39represent them and try to get them to vote now. Unfortunately, though, Maggie, honestly, a lot of
15:44the particularly these House freedom caucus extremist Republicans, they're against the bill because they
15:50don't think it's tough enough. So they actually have members that are voting against it because it
15:54doesn't have deep enough cuts it. And some of them are against it because of how big the deficit
16:00is blown in this bill when, you know, they pretended for years that they care about that.
16:06If a vote were to be held right now, would it pass the House?
16:10Well, that's why we haven't voted. So no, I mean, they obviously don't have the votes, we just actually
16:15left the floor. And yeah, there's a vote still open right now that they're losing, that the Republicans
16:21are losing. And they've dismissed us from the floor, although they haven't closed the vote,
16:25because they're still, you know, I guess, trying to work their Republicans that are holdouts to try
16:31to vote, get them to vote for just the rule, which is the procedural process that we go through in the
16:38House to actually bring a bill to the floor. So they can't even get the votes for that at this point,
16:42never mind the bill itself. Procedural votes are usually pretty politically routine around here.
16:47You know, Democrats vote on for, you know, against Republican procedural motions, and
16:53they vote for their own and vice versa, when we're in charge. You know, you have a real problem if you
16:58can't get your own party's members to vote for your procedural motions.
17:03Congresswoman, there should be alarm bells going off. Yeah, I was just going to say there should be
17:07alarm bells going off all over the Republican Party around this country. And maybe this bill is,
17:13is too painful to pass. You've heard of too big to fail. This bill is too painful to pass. They
17:20should get the message, call it a day, and start over. Congresswoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz,
17:26thank you so much for joining us on what is a very busy day for you. We really appreciate your time.
17:32Thanks a lot. Appreciate your time.
17:43Thanks a lot.