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Sheffield Wednesday's woes continue, and on this week's episode of All Wednesday we're joined by Alex Miller to give us the latest on preseason, the unpaid wages debacle and the situation around Danny Röhl as manager.
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00:00We're in a period now where there is so much being said, there is so much being written on
00:06social media, on forums, on all this kind of stuff. I think people just need to be wary,
00:12don't they, about what they read, what they believe, where it comes from.
00:18Hello and welcome to the latest edition of All Wednesday. Usually, when we've had Alex on one
00:34week, we move to a guest and have someone lighten the mood a little bit. But given everything that's
00:39happening at Sheffield Wednesday at the moment, we thought we'd get Alex back because, frankly,
00:43nobody else really matters at this point. We've got to have the right here and now at Sheffield
00:50Wednesday. So, on that note, Alex, where are we at? We've still got no payments, still not really
00:55sure of pre-season. It's not looking much better than last time we spoke, is it?
01:01It's not. First of all, it sounds like you're delighted to have me. I'm sorry that I can't lift
01:04the mood at all. But yeah, you're regrettably absolutely right. Things are moving on at pace
01:11and it does feel that we're at the stage that every day there are more blocks of wood to
01:20the head. And it's extremely difficult, as things stand, to dress anything up in any sort
01:30of way that isn't fairly catastrophic. The news that we've dropped this week about players
01:37handing in the notice. And I think that's something that we could foresee. I think everyone saw
01:44that coming. But that's sort of the latest real hammer blow and the illustration of where
01:53Sheffield Wednesday are at, sadly.
01:55Yeah, it was one of those. We've been in this position before. I remember during COVID,
01:59we got to a point when some players did hand in their notice, but obviously that never
02:04came to anything and nobody left. And I think there was an element of understanding there
02:09as well. There was an element of, with everything happening with COVID, the world was in crisis
02:16mode at that point. So I think there was a little bit of sympathy there. That's not the case this
02:22time around. There is absolutely zero sympathy going around. And it's, I think when this all
02:29started, we had this potential walkout in the back of our minds, didn't we? Because we'd
02:33dealt with it before. But I don't know about yourself. When it first started, I thought that
02:38was a, oh, we'll probably not need to delve into that. This should get sorted by that point.
02:43And obviously that hasn't happened.
02:47Yeah, you sort of go to the natural human, I guess, you know, optimism, you know, that
02:57something will get sorted out. And I think during the last few years in particular, there's
03:05been so many warning shots of financial difficulty and Mr. Chan series or the club in one way or
03:17another have managed to pull a rabbit out of a hat or get by by the skin of the teeth,
03:21whatever. And obviously that's brought theories of games being played and this sort of thing.
03:31And this case, it's, I mean, it's abundantly clear, you know, that that's, that's not the
03:37case. And I think, you know, when the everyday non-footballing staff stop getting paid, that
03:44that's where you really go, right. Okay. You know, that this is, this is a very serious
03:50situation indeed. And obviously that happened some weeks ago now and it's, it's only got worse
03:56from there. And it is, I'm trying to think of another way to dress it up, but it's just such a,
04:03such a grave situation and a real, real concern for the future of the club and where things go from
04:12here, because things I've got progressively worse as we've gone along, you know, that the easy answer
04:18is not an easy answer in terms of selling the club. We know that's the case by now.
04:23So, um, so yeah, let's, let's, let's hope for a brighter, brighter times and, and someone can
04:31come and rescue this.
04:33Yeah. You mentioned there about, um, before about the, the, the potential of, of walkouts.
04:38We know that there is, um, I think we've, we've both been very careful on the wording that we've
04:43used. Um, I think we, we've settled on several after looking up a few dictionary definitions.
04:47Um, that's, that's for now, right? This, there is always potential for more. Um, and that is the
04:57situation Wednesday find themselves in is the longer this goes on that, you know, there might
05:02still be players giving the club the benefit of the doubt, hoping that something's going to change.
05:07The closer we get to the start of the season, the closer we get to, um, you know, actual competitive
05:13football happening without real pre-season, without friendlies taking place. I suppose
05:18the more concerned players are going to get, there's been a lot of mixed messages, uh, and
05:24I suppose mixed messaging, should I say, in terms of where things lie with the, um, with
05:32the handing in of notices. Uh, do you fancy giving us a little bit of a rundown on, on what
05:38we understand to be the case? No. Um, there, there are, look, there's conflicting details
05:47there. And I think Joe, you're in a far better place. Not that I'm just passing the book here,
05:51but, um, you're, you're in a far better place. I mean, I've been sort of poured over
05:56the, the rules and regulations, um, to a far greater extent than, than lazy old me.
06:03But, um, I think that there were some misconceptions out there that, you know, if, if players were
06:11paid, um, late on in, you know, for their May wage packets, but as long as they received
06:21that money, then they didn't qualify. I mean, it's our, it's our understanding that that's
06:25not necessarily the case. Uh, you know, it is, it's back to back late payments. Um, and
06:31obviously with, with the guys not even being paid on, on Monday, that's, that's too late
06:37payments back to back. Um, the process from here is a little bit woolly because depending
06:44on what set of regulations and what interpretations and, you know, it's, it's quite broadly written.
06:50Um, but hopefully we'll get a better idea. I mean, you, you already have a better idea
06:54than me, so perhaps you could, um, deliver your reading on things.
06:58Uh, I mean, look, we, we, uh, well, we've been trying to get a bit more clarity on this
07:03from, from FIFA to, to try and get a bit more, something a bit more definitive. Um, but there's
07:08certainly people who are of the understanding, you know, who would need to be of the understanding
07:13properly that that is the case in terms of the late payments. Um, you know, because that
07:19effectively puts everybody in the, in that bracket, doesn't it? It, it, it doesn't say,
07:25you know, there was, there was a point at one, at one stage where there was discussions
07:28about a bit of tactical payments, trying to avoid, um, certain players from, from moving
07:35on. Uh, if, as we do understand that there's too late payments and effectively that's every
07:40single first team player. Uh, and, and that is a, a very worrying situation, especially
07:45given that many of them do have a market value, they are assets. Um, and now there's the 15
07:52day notice period, which for many of them obviously has, has now started. Um, we've
07:59been told by various people that, that if they pay, if they get paid up in these 15
08:05days that, you know, that effectively wipes a slate clean. There are also suggestions
08:10that that might not be the case. So until we get, you know, further clarity from, from
08:16FIFA, um, it's difficult to really rubber stamp that. And it's, that feels like it's
08:24been the case with so much of what we've done recently. You know, the, the goalposts, I
08:28would say they keep shifting, but the, the, too much of it is a bit too open for interpretation
08:35for my liking. And I think we could do with a bit more clarity on, on a lot of it.
08:39But yeah, I think, I think the way that some rules are written, um, might be speaking above
08:45my head, head of my station here, but it does feel a lot as if some rules are written with
08:51a bit of leeway, you know, one way or another, which allows authorities to, to not be sort
08:57of strangled by, by the own terms of their regulations, um, and deal with things on, on
09:04more of a case by case basis, which I guess, you know, there, there is a lot of merit to
09:08that. Um, you know, we've seen clubs previously in similar strife to, to Wednesday. Um, some
09:18had brighter outlooks than others. Some had more cooperative ownership than others. Some
09:22had this, that, that, you know, every case is, is completely different. Um, and while it's
09:27frustrating for the, you know, you, me, um, supporters and everyone else, it would be nice
09:33to see black and white, you know, there is some, some merit there in, in being able to
09:37have a little bit of wiggle room.
09:38Yeah. And now effectively, we just wait. That is all we can do now. Um, obviously the, the
09:46club are not going to confirm anything about who has handed notices in. I very much doubt
09:52we're going to see any players put the head above the parapet, um, because why would you?
09:56And now we just have to, to play that, that waiting game. Uh, there's obviously varied levels
10:03of pre-season training going off. And, uh, you've written some, some interesting stories
10:08on that over the last few days. Um, what, what, where are they at currently? What's the, the
10:12current status quo when it comes to pre-season?
10:15Uh, they're doing what they can. Um, essentially the, the, you know, we've reported at length
10:22the, the situation at, at Middlewood road. I think it's worth pointing out that these
10:27are much needed works that are taking place at the club. Um, and if you stripped away
10:35the circumstances that Wednesday are in, I think, you know, not training on them this
10:42early for the benefit of longer term, you know, it would be, it would be seen very differently.
10:47And I can certainly say all the logic in that, you know, the, this is, uh, cost a fair bit
10:53of money. The new head groundsman is a fellow that clearly knows what he's doing. Um, and you
11:00know, the scourge of, of soft, soft tissue injuries, um, certainly in the time that I've
11:05been covered in the club has, has been an issue. And a lot of people have spoken to us
11:08on and off the record about, um, the differences between the two pitches and the challenges
11:13that that causes. So these are much needed works. Um, it sounds like, uh, the weather's
11:21not helped. Um, and the bottom line is that we're Wednesday to be training on them now.
11:27It may well cause big problems and potentially destroy them down the road. Um, in sunnier times,
11:34I rather suspect that they would have been able to hire an alternative facility. Um, and
11:42clearly for a myriad of reasons, that's not the case. So they've been up at the Jubilee
11:46sports club, which is obviously, you know, technically owned by the club. It's a part of the
11:52Sheffield Wednesday community, um, um, uh, used by Sheffield Wednesday ladies team and,
11:58and all sorts of, um, community projects and it's hired out and all that sort of thing.
12:04So they're using that as much as they can. Well, no, actually that's completely wrong.
12:09I should, I should retract that. Not as much as they can that they, they're using it sparingly.
12:13They're doing bits and bobs on it. Um, because of the issues that, that can be caused by,
12:20you know, excess use of an artificial pitch and the injuries that can, that can come
12:25about there. Um, and obviously they've got the gym at Middlewood road. There were pictures
12:31of, um, a group of Wednesday players down at a local running track.
12:36Well, Ben road, I grew up playing there. There's a, there's a five a side venue attached
12:41to it. The pits they used to call it. Um, so yeah, that was, uh, that was my old stomping
12:45around that back when I was half decent. Yeah. Well, I haven't been on many running
12:51tracks as you, as you might imagine. Um, but yeah. And, but look, players do extras all
12:58the time. Um, there's no, there's no suggestion that that was a part of a Wednesday session or
13:05a Wednesday session was canceled. So they had to go, you know, that they do extras, their
13:09mates, you know, the same way that, you know, if you and I find ourselves in the same area
13:13and we've got an afternoon to ourselves, we go for a beer professional footballers go
13:16for a run around the running track. Um, so yeah, I wouldn't read a great deal too much
13:24into that going forward. They've had the long, long booked, um, trip to St. George's
13:31Park as they did last year. Um, and that's next week. So then you're into it. There are
13:38hopes and they are just hopes at the minute that once, you know, we're another
13:42what, 10 days, two weeks down the line. Um, one accounting for a little bit of rest
13:49perhaps that the middle would already be ready and then you insert and it's all
13:54steam ahead for a title challenge. Yeah. And, uh, just got to see how many players
14:00are still in the building at that point. Cause you know, by the time that, um, that
14:03St. George's Park things up, we hope we will have a better idea of, of where
14:07things are at on, on that front. Um, there is, uh, I suppose an interesting
14:14situation at the club at the moment, given that it's the time of year when
14:18youngsters start signing their, you know, pro deals, uh, you know, Wednesday
14:22have announced today, six pro deals have been signed. We had Joe Arum, MRA,
14:27Ernie Weaver and Logan Stretch, um, who all three great names, by the way, um,
14:33have all signed their first pro deals at Wednesday, having come through the
14:35academy. Uh, and then we've also had, uh, Harry Evers, Cole McGee and Denny
14:39Oliver, who've come in from Liverpool, Preston and Lincoln, I believe. It's a,
14:45it's a strange situation, isn't it? Given that everything that's happening at
14:49Wednesday at the moment, that they are, you know, signing, signing new players,
14:53but it's probably important to point out that that's not, it's not the same,
14:57is it? Like, it's not the same as, uh, you know, where Wednesday would be at in
15:01terms of signing first team footballers.
15:06No, it's not. And, and, you know, these transfers won't, you know, you, you
15:12wouldn't have expected, you know, in a, in a parallel universe, Danny
15:15Royal's still here with, uh, working alongside Kevin Bedell and, and, you
15:20know, the, the first team recruitment machine, um, if that's not too
15:27Star Wars. Um, yeah, Danny Royal wouldn't have had much to do with this.
15:32You know, Jonathan Pepper was the man pictured, you know, he's, he's had a
15:37drive at this from all accounts, you know, he's looking at recruitment in a
15:40slightly different way. Um, I mean, you've reported on it that these are
15:45players who have been in the building previously, you know, that they've
15:50traveled with the club towards the end of the back end of last season. And
15:54these are deals that wouldn't threaten the, the, um, restrictions that the
16:00club are under, you know, in, in terms of, uh, the two transfer embargoes and,
16:06and the transfer ban. So, um, it's good, very good that, you know, they, they
16:12are being able to, to operate and get some stuff done. Um, as we say, this, this
16:18stuff has been in the works for a few months now. Um, and it's good
16:23that, that talented young lads are putting their name to, to Sheffield
16:27Wednesday. Um, so yeah, in amongst the, the doom and gloom, there is, you
16:33know, there's still people working hard at all levels, you know, speaking to
16:38people in every department of the club, there's some really good people
16:42there. This is a situation that is hurting the fans, but you can best
16:47believe, you know, that there's some people at the heart of it, that
16:49it's, uh, it's hurting just as much, you know, probably more in, in many
16:55cases. And, um, yeah, things are still ticking along in, in a, in a lot of
17:00areas.
17:01Yeah. I mean, I think it's difficult to, to grasp at good news amongst
17:06everything. I mean, sorry, I mean, everything that's going on, but you
17:09know, there was no news this week that, that Will Grange just signed his
17:12scholarship. Look, in the grand scheme of things, a scholarship doesn't
17:15really mean that much. You know, if, if a big club wants to come and take him,
17:18they probably still can. But the fact that, that Will has, uh, has decided
17:23that he wants to, to stick around and, and sort of keep playing his football
17:26at Wednesday is a, is a real bonus. Him and, him and Caelan Cole-Kadamari
17:30formed a really, really good partnership for the under-18s. Obviously, Caelan is,
17:35uh, is almost certainly going to be moving on with, with Man City interested, um,
17:39and having almost finalized the deal there. Um, the, the, I suppose the, the
17:47thing you've mentioned there about people working hard, it's, there's a lot of
17:54people doing, going over and above at this point, right? You know, the, a lot
17:58of these people that are in these situations are probably not getting paid
18:01themselves and they're still trying to do their bit for, for the football club.
18:05It's, uh, I think the fact that Wednesday's work is ongoing is, is real
18:09testament to the people that are there, isn't it?
18:14A hundred percent. And, um, you know, that, that's what we're hearing. Um,
18:21that there is a sense of togetherness and, and people are still going to work
18:29and, you know, they'd be well within their rights to, to not do so and, and
18:35down tools. And, um, um, I think it speaks to the character of everyone
18:38involved and, and, you know, the leadership teams that are there that have
18:43had to deliver, um, limited information and updates to people that aren't being
18:50paid and, and that are presumably concerned about, um, you know, fulfilling
18:57their financial obligations. Um, and fair play, you know, it's easy to say here now,
19:04but you know, if the, if the star hadn't paid me for two months in a row, I'm not
19:07sure they'd be getting much, um, much coverage from me. So, um, fair play speaks to them
19:13what they're doing. Um, but it should be made absolutely clear that this, this
19:18cannot go on. Um, and, uh, you, you'd hope that it's not being taken for granted.
19:25No, you really would hope so. Um, you mentioned him a little bit back, Danny Reel,
19:29uh, where are we at with that? That's, uh, something that's, that's dragged on for
19:34quite a while now. Um, you know, we, we reported, I've lost track of when it was, I think it was last
19:40week that, um, that negotiations were, were now underway to try and get that, you know,
19:45get a line drawn underneath that situation. We've not had that yet. There's obviously talk of
19:52Henrik Pedersen as a, as a potential replacement. There's Andy Holdworth, who's been taking training
19:57sessions or some of the training sessions, should I say, in terms of, of Danny and his future,
20:03have you got any update on, on where we're at with that? Not really, other than it's, you know, it's,
20:09it's ongoing. Um, personally, I wouldn't expect at this stage, or I certainly haven't heard
20:17anything to, to say it's, you know, we're expecting a, a statement and, and a line drawn
20:22under the whole thing, anything imminently. Which means it will definitely be announced
20:28before we put this podcast out, I'm sure. Yes. Yeah. Well, look, I think for the good of the
20:32club, that would be the, the best foot forward and, and the best for, for Danny himself. Um,
20:38but you are in a situation where you've got, you've got two people who are fairly stubborn,
20:44I think it's fair to say, um, in, in their own ways, you know, and I wouldn't, I wouldn't pull them
20:50together. Um, and it would be interesting to be a fly of the wall in, in whatever room, um,
20:58um, these back and forth are taking place. There's nothing at all, by the way, to suggest
21:04you should take that literally. They're not in the same room lashing this out. Um, but yeah,
21:09for the good of the club, to move on and get Henrik, if it is to be Henrik in place would
21:18be the best foot forward for the club. Um, you know, we gather that, that Andy Holdworth
21:24is an option and, and it perhaps isn't too much of a leap.
21:28To suggest it, it might well depend on how long this, this stuff with Danny Roel is,
21:33is dragged on. Um, and, and you'd hope that's not the case in terms of Andy Holdworth.
21:38I think people look at it and go, um, we don't really know much about him. You know,
21:44he hasn't had a premier league career. He hasn't, you know, he's managed one game,
21:49a hundred percent win record, by the way. Uh, he is highly thought of. Um, I think the,
21:54the information that we've got is that it would certainly initially be a,
21:58a temporary thing to sort of bridge the gap and, uh, and move Wednesday forward in that
22:03way. And he is already taking training. So look, none of this is ideal. I go back to
22:08something I wrote just after the season finished. I know you held the same conversation. Would
22:14Wednesday be in a better place if, you know, there'd been an agreement reached to, to lower
22:19compensation, you know, to essentially call on other clubs for, um, for approaching for,
22:26for Danny Roel. Um, I rather suspect that would have provided a more fruitful outcome, but, um,
22:32we are where we are. Yeah, yes, we are. Uh, and, and I think that it's one of the many situations
22:41that Wednesday are in now that, that needs to have a, a line drawn underneath it. I think in an ideal
22:46world, um, most clubs would not want to be in with any of these situations on their own, let alone all at
22:54once. Uh, and that is where Wednesday find themselves. I think we're in a period now where
23:00there is so much being said, there is so much being written on social media, on forums, on all
23:06this kinds of stuff. Um, I think people just need to be wary, don't they? Um, about what they,
23:14what they read, what they believe, where it comes from. Um, I'm not saying that we are the only people
23:19to be believed, but I think there is a lot of, uh, work going into verifying a lot of the stuff
23:26that's being said about Wednesday, and we're going to keep doing that. I know the guys over
23:30at Radio Sheffield will be doing the same, and anyone else covering Wednesday will be doing the
23:33same. So, uh, on that cheery note, I think we'll, uh, we'll wrap it up. Thanks for joining us, Alex,
23:38and we'll see you again next week with hopefully some better news.
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