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00:00Thank you all so much for being here, and congratulations on really some fantastic movies.
00:05I personally think that producers are superheroes, and obviously every superhero has an origin story.
00:11I'm sort of curious for each of you, what was your first job in the film business?
00:15Did you start off as a PA or in the mailroom? Did you come in as an actor?
00:19What do you sort of consider your starting point in this industry? Let's start with Tony.
00:23I was a PA for a Netflix show, and it was definitely after college.
00:28It was my first real experience on a professional set, and as a PA, you are required to do anything and everything that's asked of you.
00:35I think the first thing I had to do was man an elevator in a New York skyrise,
00:40and my job was just to go from the 10th floor all the way to the penthouse, and I was in that elevator for maybe four hours.
00:46Wow.
00:46Because I just had to be the one that pushes the button, make sure that I'm on the walk.
00:50He's like, oh yeah, now you can come up.
00:52So just pushing a button, not even like a...
00:54Nope.
00:55Wow.
00:55It was just like, okay, now you can bring people up.
00:57So that was my entrance into the real industry.
01:02Did you ever get seasick?
01:04Yes.
01:04Yeah.
01:04Not seasick, but just...
01:06Motion sick.
01:07Motion sick, just going up and down, just bringing up talent, directors, gear.
01:13But yeah, that was my first job.
01:14Did you ever get stuck?
01:16Because that's my second worst nightmare.
01:17Luckily, did not get stuck.
01:18Okay.
01:18That was my fear by like hour three.
01:21It was like, oh, at some point I'm just going to be in here with the lead actor, and they're going to be like, what are you doing?
01:26This is your fault.
01:29Zoe, for you?
01:30Feels kind of metaphoric for your future career.
01:33You're with talent, you're with the gear, you're going up, you're going down.
01:35Um, I, um, I started, I have an acting background and a writing background.
01:41I still do plenty of writing, and I'm trying to, I was like, okay, first job.
01:45What was my first job, paid job, um, in the industry?
01:50I think it, I think it was, um, honestly creating this web series, Chloe and Zoe, with my best friend.
01:56We sold it as a TV show, and that kind of was my first writing job, professional writing job.
02:01Um, but my background, my starting place is really through acting, writing, story, getting groups together in college and afterwards to kind of push projects forward, whether they be short films or really inexpensive features or theater.
02:16Um, that was kind of my, my foray into producing.
02:19I know that you, you had a group in New York, I believe, called The Collective.
02:23Yes.
02:23That sort of supported each other.
02:25Did, did you always know you wanted to produce, or were you just getting friends together?
02:29You know, that was, I, I, I did not always know that I wanted to produce, but that was my way in.
02:36I think organizing people, keeping friends and talented people accountable for deadlines and encouraging them to finish a script, or, hey, we should make that idea happen.
02:45We should go shoot that.
02:46That was, that kind of impulse towards making something happen was kind of the first glimmer of an itch to produce.
02:55And three films in, you were like, oh, I'm a producer.
02:58Yeah.
02:58Yeah.
02:58Like, oh, wow.
02:59So the, when, when you're growing in, in, in scale, you, the, just the conversations change.
03:05How much money you're looking for changes, the type of cast and their level of experience changes.
03:10And it sets out a, a ripple effect when you're obviously kind of stepping from something semi-professional or educational into a professional sphere, into the marketplace, into, you know, investors taking a risk on your work, et cetera.
03:24Trevor, Trevor, for you.
03:26So my entry point into this industry was, we're actually just talking about it as Will Smith's company.
03:32He had this first company called Overbrook Entertainment, which was on the Sony lot.
03:36And I started out as an intern.
03:38I was still going to school and trying to figure it all out.
03:41And then sort of stuck around there a little bit as like a, you know, floater assistant reception.
03:45And I, I look back on that as a really, sort of, honestly, a really special moment for me to just really be brought in and surrounded by just really smart, intelligent, black creatives and executives.
03:59And just sort of really be able to kind of have that space to really feel seen and to be able to sort of talk about and share different stories that I'm passionate about.
04:07So I feel really, yeah, just really, really grateful for that experience.
04:11As an intern, did you ever have to man an elevator?
04:13Not, not manning elevators, but taking, you know, obviously like running the reception and taking calls.
04:18And I distinctly remember the first time Will called and I like panicked because like, you got, you got to understand, like a black kid, like in the 90s, like Will was the man.
04:27Like he is like, he's the man.
04:29And like, I looked up to him so much.
04:31So when I first heard his voice on the phone, I basically panicked and like, just like put him on hold.
04:37And then when I picked back up, he wasn't even there anymore.
04:39It was, it was awful.
04:40I just, I thought I, I thought I lost my job.
04:42You hung up on Will Smith?
04:44I put him on hold.
04:45I didn't hang up on him.
04:46I didn't hang up on him.
04:47But yeah, no, it's, no, it was, it was, it was a really good time.
04:51I really, really enjoyed that time.
04:54I started producing short films in film school.
04:58And then coming out of film school, I kind of was like, I will say yes to anything.
05:03Like I will produce, coordinate, production manage.
05:06So I was kind of simultaneously producing like music videos and commercials.
05:11And I also started coordinating and production managing features.
05:15And then was simultaneously kind of developing creative work with a lot of the filmmakers and
05:21collaborators I met in film school, two of which were Annie and Emma.
05:25So I, yeah, I just kind of was like, I want to learn everything.
05:29I want to meet everyone and I'll do anything you throw at me.
05:32Um, so that was how I got my start.
05:35Again, was it something that like, you knew you want to do?
05:38Did you know producing was a thing or were you just looking to support artists?
05:42I, I think by the end of film school, I kind of knew.
05:46And it came about because I had a really great group of collaborators.
05:49And I just kind of like, was the person who could pull all the things together.
05:53Um, and then I just found that I like really loved it.
05:56I loved that you get to like work alongside the director, but you kind of have this slightly
06:02different, more macro space that you get to play in.
06:05And I also have found since then that I really love kind of where like the creative elements
06:10meet the business elements, meet the logistical elements.
06:13Like that is the creative space for me is where all those things come together.
06:17Steven, doctor.
06:19Okay.
06:20There's two answers to this question.
06:23There's the first time I ever made any little kind of money doing anything related to producing.
06:28And then there's my first like actual job.
06:30First time I made money doing anything related to producing was 12, I think.
06:35And I was, but it was because I was filming my dad's church services, but he didn't, for free.
06:39What he didn't know is that I was bootlegging his sermons to the church members.
06:43Okay.
06:44So I was selling the VHS tapes in the parking lot.
06:46The producer even then.
06:47He shut that down pretty quick.
06:48That was the first time I made money.
06:50The first job, real job of Hollywood though, was at Sony, Sony Pictures.
06:55I was an intern there for a Clint Culpepper and it was baptism by fire for sure.
07:02Clint kind of ran that studio like, like a production company really.
07:07And he would come in at any given day and just say, yeah, everything I told y'all to do last month,
07:11we're not doing it.
07:12I got a new idea and now you got to go develop that quickly and put it together and cast and
07:16do the whole thing.
07:16And, you know, being on set with the team, et cetera, was, it was really a great experience
07:21for me to just learn quickly.
07:22This was on the Sony lot?
07:24On the Sony lot.
07:25Yeah.
07:25Did you ever hear about the guy who hung up on Will Smith?
07:27Yeah.
07:28Yeah.
07:28He was Trevor Wall.
07:30He's still in the business though, I think.
07:31Right?
07:34I wonder what happened to that guy.
07:37He's doing all right.
07:37Jesse, for you.
07:41I grew up in a small town with a great film festival.
07:45And after I graduated college, started working for the film festival, chasing the work around,
07:51kind of doing whatever I could do.
07:53My real first job in like production was on the Hateful Eight.
07:59It came and shot near Telluride.
08:01Uh, and I got hired as Quentin Tarantino's, uh, driver and I, and I was, I was like fired
08:09in two days.
08:11What?
08:12Um, he accused me of stealing his jacket and I disagreed with him and then I was fired
08:18and ended up doing special effects and, uh, yeah.
08:21On the movie?
08:22Uh, yeah, on that movie.
08:23So you got promoted?
08:24Yeah.
08:26So kids steal.
08:28Yeah, I mean, I wasn't like rightfully fired so they had to find somewhere for me to go
08:34because he was just stoned and like left his jacket on his bed.
08:38I'm shocked.
08:38Do you still have the jacket?
08:40Did, did, did he know that the driver he got fired then got a better job on the movie?
08:45Yeah, I mean, I was working pretty, pretty close to him.
08:49Peddling around big Ritter fans and snow machines.
08:54Yeah.
08:54That's amazing.
08:55Yeah, and then just, I don't know.
08:58Did they ever find his jacket?
09:00Oh yeah, my friend was a, uh, uh, uh, uh, production office coordinator and found it
09:05on his bed, yeah.
09:09It was very clever of you to put it back there.
09:11Yeah.
09:11Where no one would look, yes.
09:12Exactly.
09:13That's how you work your way up.
09:14The perfect crime.
09:15Yes.
09:17Jess, for you?
09:18Um, my first job was in development at, uh, Disney Toons, which was a little spinoff studio
09:24of Disney's.
09:26Um, yeah, it was just working with three directors, just developing their projects.
09:31Um, but it was the first taste of collaborating with a small team, kind of growing it and falling
09:36in love with, what that felt like.
09:38Because you've also done so many different things in different departments.
09:41Like, what, what did you sort of envision was you're going to, what you were hoping for
09:44for your career starting out?
09:46Um, I think I knew early on that I wanted to produce.
09:49Really?
09:50Um, I just love bringing people together.
09:53Uh, there's a thrill in that.
09:54And so, uh, yeah, whichever room, you know, with the film I'm currently on, it's like
10:00250 to 300 people that you kind of bring together, uh, at the top of their game.
10:05So it's kind of that, the joy of that.
10:08But it's good.
10:09When you say the film you're currently on, do you mean Toy Story 5?
10:12Yeah.
10:12Okay.
10:13You're going to, she's about to tell us everything that happens in this movie.
10:16Go on.
10:18So it opens.
10:20Pixar will never know.
10:22I heard this being recorded, so.
10:24Zainab, for you.
10:27Um, my story's actually kind of funny.
10:29It happened kind of by accident.
10:31I moved to LA from Maryland about 11 years ago, and I was working as a marketing assistant
10:36after college.
10:38And, um, I applied everywhere online, and CA called me.
10:41They had an assistant job in the marketing department.
10:44And I had that interview, and I didn't get it.
10:48I waited a month.
10:49And then I did some research about the film industry and, and agencies, and how they were
10:53such a great first step into the business.
10:57And I applied everywhere, but nobody would call me back.
11:00I didn't study film.
11:01I didn't have any connections.
11:03But luckily for me at WME, a girl was brand new in the HR department, and she gave me the
11:08head of HR's email.
11:10Wow.
11:10And she was head of corporate, and, um, it worked.
11:14I got an interview, and she told me, it's not going to be glamorous.
11:17You're going to start in the mailroom.
11:18And that's how it happened.
11:20You literally started in the mailroom.
11:22Yeah.
11:22Oh my gosh.
11:23It's such a dream.
11:23In a windowless basement, pushing the mail cart.
11:27That's, and then right after that, you sort of worked your way up through the agency, or?
11:31Yeah, you just, you know, from pushing the mail cart, you become a temp assistant, which,
11:35you know, they called it a floater.
11:37And then you, um, work on a desk for six months, and you just go from desk to desk, different
11:42departments.
11:42And I learned everything there.
11:44It was my school.
11:46And, um, I packaged a film for a filmmaker named Sam Raimi, and he was the one that told
11:51me, you're a producer, um, I'm starting a new company, and I'd like you to run development,
11:56and that's how it all happened.
11:58Yeah, I've heard of Sam Raimi.
12:00Um, I think he's a, he's a real up-and-comer.
12:03Actually, I want to talk about that a little bit, because I mentioned range earlier, and
12:07you all have been a part of such wildly creative and really interesting movies.
12:12It's so hard to get any movie made.
12:14What sort of draws you to a project?
12:16And I know that you sort of, I don't, you specialize kind of in horror, which is one of my
12:21favorite genres, and, and yet seems to be so hard to get right.
12:24Um, is that what draws you to something, or is it the script, the people?
12:28Well, since I was six, I was that weird little kid who loved horror films.
12:33I think Peter Jackson's set alive just blew my mind, and, um, so, exactly.
12:39So I love horror films, um, so it was the natural fit, but for me, I think it's really about
12:44what the message of the film is.
12:46I mean, we do some thrillers, um, but really the message, because I think the
12:50beauty of filmmaking is that you're a vessel of delivering, um, you know, a theme, a message,
12:57a lesson to, to audiences.
13:00Dead Alive, the Peter Jackson movie?
13:02Yes.
13:03I got suspended from high school for showing that to my class.
13:07It's apparently not age appropriate.
13:10No, no.
13:10I have since learned.
13:12Jess, what about for you?
13:14What, what draws you to a project?
13:15Um, I keep telling myself it's, uh, the filmmakers, right?
13:19Because I, when I went to Pixar, I, um, asked, the, the way that, they kind of enticed me there
13:25was, uh, I wanted to work with a female director.
13:27I wanted to work on something meaningful, because I had done a ton of blockbuster films,
13:31like Avatar and Thor Ragnarok at the time.
13:33Uh, so once I got up there, I was in development with three brilliant female directors, and then
13:40I got called into an office and said, hey, would you, could you work with Andrew Stanton,
13:44who is the absolute opposite of that.
13:46He's wonderful, but very seasoned.
13:48Um, so in, I think in animation, you get kind of a choice with the filmmakers, uh, but there
13:55are some situations where you kind of jump in, and, uh, it was obviously a very challenging,
13:59uh, experience anyway, so I was very, uh, game to do it, but sometimes, yeah, what draws
14:06me is the filmmaker, and then, uh, the content, I guess.
14:11And from what I understand, this is unusual, because Pixar kind of, they pursued you, which
14:16I hear they don't do.
14:17They usually promote from within, but you were like a hot commodity.
14:20Um, I think it was just a good time.
14:21It's all luck, right?
14:22But, uh, I was at Netflix, uh, they were also kind of, uh, pitching a show.
14:29And then, uh, it just happened, it was a good time.
14:33Yeah, that's the modest way of saying you were a hot commodity.
14:35For you?
14:39Um, for me, it's, it's been a pretty organic way into the industry.
14:45Most of my projects have just been with a childhood friend, and then, uh, a colleague
14:51that worked on all of those films with us.
14:53Um, every project is like a multiple year investment, so it's, it's really all about
14:58the people, um, people that you can work with every day for three years, um, and have
15:05hard conversations with all the time.
15:06Um, yeah, and then, obviously, like, you know, the, the script, the content is important,
15:13but, um, yeah, that's the starting point.
15:16Did this dynamic, because you, you've known him since childhood, did this dynamic exist
15:21back then?
15:21Like, was he creating things, and you were sort of producing for him?
15:24Um, no, no, he went to film school, I was in New Mexico doing special effects, and started
15:29producing his short films.
15:31Um, and then it's just, yeah, grown from there.
15:35Wow.
15:36Steven, for you?
15:37What draws me to certain movies?
15:39Yeah, scripts, people, all of the above.
15:42Difficulty.
15:42You want it to be difficult?
15:44I wish it wasn't, uh, but, but my, my only mandate on my slate really is, is, uh, to create
15:51the comp.
15:52Yeah.
15:52And so, you know, you know, you and I were talking earlier about, like, what, how did
15:56you characterize, they cloned Tyrone, or categorized her, rather?
16:00Um, I love the fact that I couldn't really put it in any box, per se, right?
16:05It's sci-fi, mystery, comedy, all the things.
16:09Um, although I very much so hated that, that, that the agents like to say, when we were getting
16:14ready to pitch it, they like to tell people that it was, uh, Friday meets Get Out.
16:19Oh, God.
16:20It's not that, but it got us in the room, so I guess it worked.
16:22I guess they're smart.
16:23Um, but, but I, but certainly, like, creating the comp meant that I couldn't point to another
16:28movie to create a business model off of, or point to another movie to say, you know,
16:33it's, it's really like this, so that a, a, a buyer, a studio can understand, you know,
16:38why it made sense for them to make it.
16:40Um, that is very painful, usually, right?
16:43But, but it's, it's also rewarding, because now that movie exists, and somebody else can point
16:47to it.
16:47Uh, it's funny, because I asked, I, we, we were talking about They Clone Tyrone, and
16:52I was like, that, that movie doesn't lend itself to a 20-second elevator pitch, at all.
16:56To it, my mom is actually a big fan of the movie, and she was like, it's in the title.
17:00She's like, what more do you need to know?
17:02I was like, yeah, that's, that, that doesn't quite sum it up, but, but you're not wrong.
17:06Shout out to mom.
17:07Yeah.
17:09Lizzie, for you?
17:11Um, I'm definitely always looking for, like, a new voice, and a connection, in a filmmaker,
17:16and in a story.
17:18Um, but I think, like, a question I always am asking myself is, like, why, why am I the
17:22producer to do this project?
17:24Because I often meet filmmakers and read scripts that I'm like, this is great, and I, like,
17:28can't wait to watch your movie.
17:29But it's a really different feeling when you're like, oh, I, like, must make this movie.
17:34Like, I simply cannot sleep tonight if I'm not manifesting this project into existence,
17:39because it is this, like, years-long commitment, marriage to someone.
17:43Um, so that's, that's, like, a really, I think, central question for me.
17:49Um, I mean, speaking of movies that are hard to categorize, Trevor, like, did you go around
17:52pitching slanted?
17:54Did you have to explain, um, ethnic modification surgery?
17:58Uh, a little bit, yeah.
17:59I mean, it's, it's, uh, it's funny, because to Stephen's point, um, I think what I look for
18:04in stories also are things that you just haven't seen before, um, which is obviously really
18:08hard to find, so it could sometimes result in a remix of a remix of a remix.
18:12Um, but with Slanted, yeah, that did sort of feel so unique and original, uh, you know,
18:19until The Substance came out just before we premiered, but, you know.
18:21Oh, cool.
18:22Then it kind of, like, you know, uh, but it was-
18:24Then you can say, it's The Substance meets Crazy Rich Asians.
18:27Yeah, yeah, or The Substance instead of going younger, changing races.
18:30Uh, but, uh, but, yeah, I think for me it's, um, a story that feels new and different and
18:37fresh, but also, it, I don't know if y'all feel the same way.
18:40It's, I think it's hard to describe the feeling when you do read a script that really just,
18:45like, you connect with.
18:46Like, it's almost, it's almost like you, like, it's almost like seeing someone, like,
18:51a love of first sight kind of moment.
18:52It's, like, really special.
18:54Uh, and you get, you get this feeling of excitement, uh, a little bit of nervousness,
18:58because you're like, oh, man, I'm gonna sign up for something that's, like, you know,
19:01to your point, like, a years-long, uh, endeavor.
19:04Um, but it's, uh, it's a beautiful thing, and I, I'm always trying to, you know, read
19:08and find those, so.
19:09You make it sound like falling in love.
19:12Yeah, I mean, you know, making a movie can be, you know, uh, a trial marriage in a lot
19:16of ways, so, yeah.
19:18Zoe, for you?
19:19I like things that are fun and funny, so mostly I think that I'm drawn to someone being fun
19:25and funny, or the idea being fun and funny, and to Lizzie's point, having something to
19:31add, like, oh, I can help make that better, or I can help make that happen, um, so, yeah,
19:37I'd say that that's my, my way in.
19:39I also, I have a very small slate, and I'm mostly, I, I produce sometimes things that I'm
19:45writing, or things that are coming out of a very kind of small group of friends in my
19:49writing group, um, and so, yeah, I, I think fun, funny, or, and, or people who are
19:55who I love, and, um, have a long-term investment in seeing their ideas come to life.
20:00Uh, that's sort of what happened with Thelma, because the writer-director Josh Margolin
20:04was, was in your writing group?
20:06Is, yeah, so Josh is a, is a close friend of mine, he's, this was technically his first
20:11feature, but I've, I've worked with him on shorter format things throughout the years,
20:14and have seen him direct, and act, and edit, and, and have all of these, you know, amazing,
20:20um, amazing accomplishments on the way to making Thelma, but yes, he's a close friend,
20:25someone who I see on a weekly basis to come together in this writing group where we kind
20:32of, we meet on Thursday nights, and hold each other accountable for deadlines, and getting
20:37through drafts, and, um, in this case, when we read the first draft of Thelma out loud
20:42in that group, my producing partner Chris and I, it was a lightbulb moment of, oh my gosh,
20:46you know, we have to make this happen, and, um, yeah, that, that's how that one came about,
20:52and I'd say that in the general, what are you looking for, it's that lightbulb moment,
20:57or that special must-do moment when you first kind of hear about the idea or read the script.
21:02In that first reading of Thelma, who played Thelma?
21:05I, it must have been me. I mean, I, I'm trying to think, I know that there was a, there was
21:11one reading we did where I know it was my little sister, and that's the one that's coming to
21:14mind, but I think, I think it, I think it was me. Yeah, I think it must have been, because,
21:18yeah, one of the only women. I may have slightly jokingly asked you this before,
21:22but I wondered if you were in, like, out there pitching Thelma, which, you know, June Squibb
21:26is, is currently 95, and, like, so perfect for the role. If studios ever said, like,
21:30we'd like to do it, but we want to cast Kim Kardashian as Thelma.
21:33Well, it was not, we didn't really, we didn't pitch the movie to studios, but certain agents
21:38pitched their clients, and I would say in a very ageist way, except for, from, you know,
21:45our focus on a true non-agenarian, who we had in, in the form of June, attached from moment
21:50one of this movie's existence, we had agents saying, well, I don't know about June Squibb,
21:55but I guess if it were Shirley MacLaine, you know, like, trying to age it down, and then
21:58therefore age other people down. It was interesting. It was, it was, it's a, it's a movie that, that
22:03feels really silly to do that with, but it still happened. Yeah.
22:07Tony, for you, you've worked with the same filmmakers quite a bit, I think.
22:11Yeah, I mean, for all the features that I've done, I've done short films with them, and
22:14something that producers learn is, like, who they are outside of set, and who they are
22:19on set, can be very, very different. So I think for a lot of the features that I work
22:23on, and the projects I work on, I want to make sure that I've had that pre-existing relationship.
22:27And then just from a, like, a technical, like, standpoint of, like, what draws me to a project,
22:31I think I'm really drawn to characters, like, characters that, like, I can sympathize with,
22:35that I understand, and that will make me feel something. Like, I think about all the films
22:38that everyone made here, like, Thelma, Shiva Baby, like, Don't Move, like, Rebuilding, like,
22:43when I watch those movies, I just can really, like, experience the emotions of those characters,
22:49and I think that's, like, the number one thing I can look for now in scripts, is, like,
22:52can I understand this character? Does this character make me feel something?
22:56Speaking of, do you sort of see short films as, like, a trial run? Like, to see if you want
23:00to get into a marriage with these filmmakers?
23:02Yes, absolutely.
23:02Again, I'm using the love metaphor. Sorry.
23:05Yes, it is definitely kind of, like, dating. You're going to be in a marriage with these people
23:09for years and years, and, like, once you can at least see that they can handle the pressure
23:14and know what it's like when they're on set, and they can really pull through, that definitely
23:19is just a huge vote of confidence.
23:21Has it ever taught you that, oh, I don't think I do want to collaborate with this person?
23:27Yes.
23:29Definitely in film school, there are just people that are like, oh, yeah, like, you really
23:32are not cut out for what is set life, because set life, as everyone knows, is a very specific
23:38type of beast.
23:38Brutal. I'm sure, like, all of you, your movies were probably not made in, like, 75
23:43days, I'm guessing. Probably not written in 75 days. Actually, I wanted to ask about that,
23:50because, you know, producers have to be problem solvers and constantly be coming up with solutions
23:56to problems sometimes they didn't even know existed, especially in the independent film
24:01world. Is there an example from, like, recent experience where, due to budget or time constraints,
24:06you weren't able to pull off a scene as planned, and you had to come up with a creative solution
24:11that maybe even ended up being better?
24:13I mean, I can kind of talk to this. There was the short film that my feature, Lucky
24:17Lou, is based off. We shot it during the pandemic, and it's about a bicycle delivery worker, and
24:21he's delivering all across the city. And our actor wasn't quite comfortable riding an e-bike,
24:26because those can really, really go, like, quite fast in the city.
24:30Really?
24:30So, like, you can hit, like, 30 miles an hour, and it's, like, you're weaving in between
24:34traffic. So, for a lot of those scenes, it's actually me riding.
24:37No, you're kidding!
24:39So, I just put on the helmet, I put on the same jacket, and, like, there's four or five
24:43scenes in that short film where it's just, it's me, like, coming into a stop, or they're
24:47following me. So, that was an example of where, yeah, I'm a producer, I'm not an actor,
24:53not a son person, but it's just, like, we had, it was a five-person crew, like, most of the
24:58time. And the actor's, like, I just don't feel comfortable right now, until the last
25:02day. He's, like, okay, I can slowly do it. But, like, yeah, there's scenes in that short
25:05film where it's just me with the helmet just speeding along the streets of New York.
25:10Which is weird, because he's, like, two feet shorter than you.
25:13Did he, did he lie on his resume and say he could ride a bike?
25:16Well, he did do it on the last day. So, he, he's not lying anywhere, but there's, there's
25:20scenes in the film where it's, like, oh, no, that's me.
25:22Yeah. Because, you know, as actors, they're always going to say, like, of course I can ride
25:25horseback.
25:26Yeah.
25:26Yeah.
25:26Anyone else?
25:29One of my favorite things to talk about with Shiva Baby is, you know, we had, we shot that
25:33movie in, like, 17 days for a couple hundred thousand dollars. And because we had so few
25:39days and so little money, a lot of our cast couldn't be there at the same time. So, a lot
25:46of Shiva Baby, when you, like, see characters looking at each other across the room, those
25:50actors aren't in the same room together. And we didn't have a script supervisor, because
25:54we couldn't afford one. So, there was this, like, we had this Lego model of the house where
26:00we, like, literally mapped out where everyone would be so that we could match them looking
26:05at each other in different scenes and, like, make a movie that made sense.
26:09That's so cool.
26:10So, that, that is a, yeah, that was a fun challenge. And I guess from this most recent movie I made,
26:17The Plague, we needed, we had, like, a weird Venn diagram of things we needed. We needed a really big,
26:24beautiful pool. And we needed a place where it has a bunch of kids playing water polo. So, we needed a
26:29place where there were a lot of kids who played water polo. And the director wanted to shoot on film,
26:35and I have an insane need to please everyone's dreams. So, I was like, yes, we'll make all these
26:39things happen. So, we, we budgeted in nine countries and went to Romania. And I, we brought eight kids
26:45from Romania, I'm sorry, eight kids from the U.S. to Romania, taught them to do stunts and play water
26:52polo in a week. And then when we did our, like, underwater unit at our big, beautiful Brutalist
26:58pool, because of all the kid hours, we were, like, constantly cycling kids and doubling them and
27:04doing, like, this, like, crazy, what, we had, like, gameplay that we were doubling. So, it's, I don't
27:10know, it's just, like, constantly kind of like that. I think, getting a question like this, your mind
27:15kind of, like, goes blank because you're, like, what wasn't a challenge of, like, insanity?
27:19Yeah, well, it wasn't a challenge. Talking about Shiva Baby, Lego really should release
27:26a play set of that. I would love that. Wouldn't that be amazing?
27:29Yeah, and Lego, the Lego ideas, we do, like, a Shiva Baby house, I'd love, yeah, that'd be
27:33amazing. Cool. Anyone else?
27:36I mean, I've got a crazy story. Unlocked, we were shooting in downtown Vancouver, I think,
27:44it's similar to what we call an L.A. skid row. So, there was a lot of homeless people and,
27:49like, legally, we couldn't tell them to move away from their homes. So, they were in the scenes.
27:55And, you know, I've never had to do this, but we had to hire professional sweepers who would sweep
28:01needles three times a day. We had to hire security. And we thought, okay, this is a safe set.
28:08And we were shooting in the alley. And it was a night shoot. And no, we weren't safe. Because
28:14through the roof, they were throwing human waste. So, I think that was something I've never, it was,
28:21you know, and we had to, it was a 19-day shoot. We just, so we had to get tents. And I don't know if
28:28that answers your question, but that was something. You didn't account for that? There's no budget for
28:34tents in case of flying feces? No. Wow. Indie making. But on the other hand, it's like,
28:41no criticism can phase you after that. I feel like, yeah, bring it on. Bring it on. Anyone else?
28:49I mean, honestly, I feel like for all of us up here, we would probably point to a situation in every
28:54single movie we made, you know? It's such a hard question. Because every movie, no matter how much
29:01time or quote-unquote money you have, you still don't have enough. There's always more movie left
29:05at the end of the money, you know? So, I mean, it's just true. You know, I made a, Tyrone was
29:14the longest schedule I've had so far. And it was 54 days, which was a marathon.
29:21Yeah. But it, but it still felt like, you know, the scene that was not, that did not get shot as
29:29intended, but I think was better because of it, was the clone room scene. So, if you've seen the
29:34movie, there's a, we visit that space a couple times. It's definitely the most expensive set or
29:38whatever in the movie. But that set is written, our writers had great dreams. Sure. So, that space
29:46was supposed to be boundless, sort of, you know, clone pods forever in a room and all
29:52these things. And we took one look at that and we were like, there's no way we could ever
29:55afford this. And it was the one thing that Netflix was like pushing us on up until two
30:00weeks before we shot it. We still had not figured out how to do it within budget. And
30:04then our production designer was like, let's just go old school Hollywood and actually do
30:08smoke and mirrors. And so he just brought in a bunch of mirror, tall mirrors and put it around
30:13the perimeter and put a bunch of fog in the space. And so what you see on the screen is
30:18not VFX. It's practical, but it looks like we had, you know, an endless room, but it was
30:22literally just smoke and mirrors. That's so cool. I love the clone room. Yeah. That's
30:27amazing. Anyone else? These stories are reminding me why I love working in animation. The flying
30:34feces. Oh, no. I will say at Netflix, I won't name the movie, but we had, and this is so nerdy,
30:43we had tried to move an entire movie that was 80% done animated from a creative animation
30:53house in Montreal to the US. And we had to send a truckloads of five terabyte hard drives
31:00over to get the movie loaded on. And then once we got to the, our new creative house, they
31:07got hacked. So we, and it's over now. We made the movie. It's out. So I can say it. But
31:14you could see on the screen, the files being deleted because they had the only backup drive
31:21and they were holding it for ransom. So this is a Netflix. So, you know, it happens everywhere. I'm
31:28sorry. This is a movie. One of you needs to be in this movie. It got hacked. Was it ransomware? Yeah,
31:33we were super close to being like, we have to shut this movie down, but it's out. So how much did
31:38you lose? We actually got most of it back. You can actually on local computers, we had some copies,
31:46and then we had to recreate some assets, but it was mostly there. Oh, that's horrifying. Actually,
31:50that kind of is Thelma. It's ransomware. Yeah, that is. Kind of is. Again, filmmaking is so
31:59challenging in and of itself. And that's obviously before a global pandemic and multiple strikes to
32:05the industry. As producers, what do you sort of perceive to be the most immediate issues in the
32:10film industry that we should be concerned about? And do you have any ideas?
32:14Yeah. Geez. Yeah. Just a lighthearted question. I think distribution is really hard right now. I
32:23think especially making independent films, it's just hard to find distributors who like really
32:29understand how to get to audiences, especially like I think a lot of our films up here for more
32:35specific audiences that you really need to know how to target. And like they're honestly buying movies
32:42for a lot less than we can make them. So the system is a little broken at the moment. I have a lot of
32:50hope that we're going to move in a better direction. And I think like the industry in a way is like having
32:55a moment of right sizing. But yeah, it's just really hard when you set out to make a movie that you can't
33:03like guarantee you're going to have the home and the sale that you know the film deserves. And I think
33:09like as producers, we've sort of like built an armor up around that and know how to like make it a
33:15success. But I think it's like it's really hard to watch for filmmakers, honestly, especially because
33:20like, you know, we'll we'll spread ourselves over like a number of projects. So you're sort of like
33:25betting on different horses, so to speak. But especially for like a director, it's like they've
33:30been working on this one thing for years and years and years. So so yeah, for me, I think that is like
33:35that's the most challenging thing right now. Is it ever hard? Like there are compromises that are
33:39offered? Like, you know, I joked about casting someone else's Thelma. But you know, that has to
33:44be tempting if someone is like, I'll make your movie. If XYZ, I think that there's a
33:49we need more original content and more original ideas. And I think that a lot of people are mitigating
33:58risk by recycling. And I think that across genre and frankly, really across like whether it's for a
34:06niche audience or not, I think that there is there's a truth that audiences want to see something
34:13fresh and fun and original. And that's, that's at least what I continue to focus on through hard
34:20times and through through good times. I think that Lizzie's also absolutely right about the
34:25distribution. But I would add to my, my, my yes, and would would add just original ideas missing in
34:35action. And there are some great small distribution companies out there like once I haven't even heard
34:40of who like really love the movies and you know, are passionate about it. Yeah, which is great to find
34:46if you can. Yeah, and I think that there's a I think perhaps indie as a genre is perhaps
34:55not the most effective way to think about indie in general that you can make something independently
35:00that can actually find a lot of audience. And even something that appears niche, sometimes the more
35:07specific story can be more universal. And I think that a kind of us versus them thing has emerged a big
35:14movie that can sell for a gazillion dollars to a huge streamer or be made by a studio or said streamer
35:20kind of feeling at odds with a little movie made independently. Yay. And I think that there's,
35:26um, there's a lot in the middle that we're missing out on. And I think that the audience is missing out
35:31on those two. Yeah, I totally agree with that. I mean, to both of their points, uh, most people don't
35:37realize that Knives Out is an independent movie. It was not a studio film. You know, Ryan Johnson wrote it
35:43on spec. His part, his producing partner, Rahm, budgeted and scheduled it. They got Daniel Craig
35:48attached and then went to the town and said, we're making this movie. And they were going to make it,
35:52you know, with MRC financing and whatnot. But like, you know, I think that is, I believe that that's the
35:57wave for independent movies of all sizes. And indie is not a, it's not a genre. It's just a classifier.
36:04Right. And so, um, you know, even the, the movie I did last summer that was 16 days is a really a studio
36:12romance film. It's just, I knew the studios wouldn't see it, but if they see the movie,
36:17then they will see it. Right. So it's, it's just like, I think we, as producers, our whole job is to
36:22find new ways to get things done. And ultimately, you know, right now when the industry is constricting
36:29and trying to figure itself out and right sizing to your point, it's really about, you know, taking big
36:34swings and finding financiers that are willing to do that too. Jesse, with your movies, I feel like
36:39they're very actor centric. You know, you have these great actors, you know, that you're putting
36:44into lead roles. How much does that help? Did you have to have them cast before? Someone having like
36:49Josh O'Connor in rebuilding, I don't know if like you had to get the actor first. In rebuilding,
36:54we did on a love song. It was kind of simultaneous chicken egg. Once you get Dale was attached, then
37:03more financing came through and Wes, more financing and financing also existed beforehand. Yeah.
37:12Anyone else? I mean, this is something I've discussed with other colleagues. This is not
37:16like a fully fleshed out idea, but the example that I always use is the Costco hot dog. It's
37:20known as a loss leader. It's $1.50, but it gets everyone into the store and everyone shopping. And
37:26I was thinking about it's like if Netflix, Apple and Amazon, they were like, hey, we're going to just commit
37:30$200 million every year to just make independent films. And even if they're not going to make money,
37:36but it generates jobs and it's like, hey, we like instead of spending $200 million on one just like
37:43huge blockbuster, you can make 50 independent films with that. And that's something that I thought would
37:49be like that could be done because you have Netflix, they have guaranteed subscribers. They could just be
37:54like every year we're going to set aside the X, Y, Z amount of money. We know it's not going to make
37:59money, but we can create interesting films this way. So like, that's what I was thinking is like,
38:03hey, just copy the Costco hot dog. You just blew my, because it's not only,
38:08it's a buck 50 for a hot dog and a soda. Yes. Yeah. It's a crazy good deal. It never occurred to me
38:13that they did that to bring people in the doors. Yeah. And it works. So I think it's like, yeah,
38:18like distribution is definitely a problem. But it's like, if at the front end, you're just like, hey,
38:22we know we're not going to make money, but we're going to give an avenue for new directors,
38:27for new ideas. And these are all going to be original. And every year, we're going to commit
38:30to this and just do it for 10 years. I think that could just be something that the industry
38:35could commit to relatively easily. I love using hot dogs as a metaphor,
38:39so I'm going to steal that. On a more positive note, I know all of you are working on some really
38:45exciting projects. I'm sort of curious, what excites you about the future of filmmaking, whether it's
38:50something you're personally involved with or not. Don't make me call on people.
38:58Yeah. I'm mostly excited about just the opportunity for ownership. Yeah. I think because
39:06there's chaos, I think the O stands for opportunity in a real way. And these new models
39:11are giving filmmakers the opportunity to say, I'm going to build audience outside the system,
39:16whether it's by way of, you know, talent or by way of the actual filmmaker having their own
39:20audience. And it's not about the number of followers, but more so about the loyalty and
39:26ability to move that audience to go make a purchase for a ticket, et cetera. If you have that baked in,
39:34it doesn't necessarily have to get traditional distribution, right? There's plenty of ways to get
39:39it out there without that. And I do believe that that's next. We're already in the creator economy at
39:46this point. Right. And so, you know, the more we are willing to take chances on new models,
39:52I think the more with that risk, there's there's there should be ownership that's partnered with that.
39:59And so, you know, in success, obviously, you change you change a filmmaker's life by setting it up that way.
40:05Anyone else? I think it's exciting to me to see, like, even though everything's so hard and
40:11blah, blah, blah, that we, like, you look at the Oscars this past year, right? You have a movie like
40:15Enora winning. Sean Baker came up much in the same way that we are. And like, you have Brady's movie,
40:22The Brutalist. See, we do have, like, movies that were, like, developed and a lot of times made
40:29independently succeeding at a high level. And filmmakers who came up, like, you know,
40:35by their bootstraps succeeding at a high level. And that to me is exciting because it says that
40:39there, like, is a demand for boundary pushing storytelling. And I think audiences are more
40:46sophisticated than ever in a big way. I think there's a big reason, you know, why we see, like,
40:51Enora winning an Oscar and we see Marvel movies not succeeding as much as they used to. Like,
40:55people are becoming, um, more, uh, per, like, they understand the formula and they're, like,
41:02not here for it. Um, so I just think that, like, that's exciting that they're, as much as it's hard,
41:08there, like, is a space and can be a big space for, like, new stories and voices to come up.
41:15And every time one of those movies succeeds, we act surprised. We're like, oh, look at this. It's,
41:20it's like people want fresh stories. Sinners. I was just gonna say, yeah,
41:24Sinners is a great example. I heard, like, Ryan Coogler. Yeah, well, we didn't have anything to do with
41:29that, but we can just shout out Sinners. Um, maybe a naive question, but, but you've all had,
41:37you know, some great accomplishments recently. Was there, someone once told me it's actually easy,
41:41harder to get your second film made than your first. I don't know if it's a sophomore slump or
41:45did you find more doors opening or is that sort of a myth? I was still thinking about the last
41:50question. So I'm a little behind, but I was gonna say, I think it was, maybe you guys remember the,
41:54was it Mark Duplass or one of the Duplass brothers that talked about how the cavalry isn't coming?
41:58Does ever, does anyone remember this? And I really loved that quote and I've always remembered it.
42:02Josh, who wrote and directed Thelma, says the translation of that these days feels like there
42:07are no opportunities, which I think is dark, but kind of also invigorating and feels like for a group of us
42:14who are almost always kind of creating the opportunity to then step into. I think it's,
42:22I've stopped thinking about people opening the doors. I've just, I'm just like, I don't know.
42:28That's like not a thing. So I've been ignoring that and just thinking about trying to, you know,
42:34draw and then build and then open the door and then be like, come on. And I think that that's been
42:39a focusing element for my career and that's how I'm going to continue to think about it.
42:46Or you kick down the door. I was just going to say.
42:49Or kick it down. Not if I made it. Not if I tinkered it really, really beautifully. No,
42:55I'm just kidding. Yeah. Kick down too. Can we work in a hot dog metaphor too?
42:58Because then it would be perfect. Sure. Yeah.
42:59You open the door and Tony's there with hot dogs. Perfect.
43:02Hot dogs, everyone. Before we go, I want to remind everyone,
43:07there's some great recommendations for movies you should check out. If you haven't already
43:09seen. And your film, Rosemita's screening is at three today?
43:13Yes. I think it's starting very, very soon.
43:15Oh wait. It's two or three?
43:16I believe it's three.
43:18Okay. So you guys get a drink and then you'll be able to go check it out. You're doing a Q&A with
43:23Lucy? Eric and Lucy are leading the Q&A. I'll just be there to support them.
43:26Just, you'll be producing. Yes.
43:28Yes. From the shadows. Well, again, I want to thank you all so much for coming here.
43:32Thank you for being a great audience. Thank you so much.
43:34Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you everyone.
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