- yesterday
Variety Innovation in TV Brunch presented by Google TV
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PeopleTranscript
00:00Thank you all for being here. I'm excited because this is a good panel because there is so much
00:09going on in this space. And there's obviously, this is a festival of creativity, and we've
00:14talked to a lot of talent. But this, for this, I really want to talk about, you know, the revenue
00:20where the rubber meets the road in terms of making all of this possible. And when you come
00:24to CanLine, you see, you just see, like, writ large, just how much activity there is in media
00:29and branding and connections and all that collaboration. But it takes, I know, from
00:34talking to folks, it takes so much work to bring these things off. I thought let's start, I thought
00:39let's, Shalini, you are, you and Google, obviously, you are in the intersection of all of the trends
00:45that we're seeing in streaming that, you know, it's sort of the re-bundling of the streaming
00:49universe. Josh has a big, big moves coming up there for Disney and ESPN later, we'll definitely
00:54talk about that. But can you kind of level set for us where you see the world of, let's call it
01:00connected TVs, and how, how that's intersecting with, with streaming trends, like we're seeing
01:07with Tubi and free streaming, and sort of where you see the, where you see the, the, the challenge
01:16for helping manage that transition from what had been a largely linear business, particularly
01:22in the U.S., to, and then, you know, the connected world that we are experiencing here?
01:30Yeah, that's a great question. I think the way that I like to think about it is, you know,
01:35you asked about, you asked Candice about does she watch on her dumb TV? I, I would say, like,
01:42if you think about where TV has evolved over the decades, uh, there used to be dumb TVs,
01:48um, which was basically, you know, TV that basically was just streaming or broadcasting
01:54content that was streamed over broadcast effectively. And, you know, you had your cable channels and you
02:01watched what was provided through that. Um, I think the last few decades has been what we call the
02:07connected TV decade. And actually, if you look at any TV now, they are all connected. There's not a
02:13single TV that's sold now that's a quote-unquote dumb TV. And that's really a reflection of a better
02:19bandwidth in the home, the fact that it's easier to use your TVs through voice, et cetera, and streaming,
02:26of course, right? Like, you have so many apps, like, practically you don't know what to watch
02:30sometimes because there's so much content. And that's really been the revolution of connected TVs.
02:35Um, and that's really where Google TV came from, which was this exact ethos of what I said. There's
02:42so much content, you don't know what to watch. Um, Google TV is all about bringing together content
02:47from all streaming apps in a way that's personalized for you. So Candice likes to watch a lot of sports.
02:55We probably have a lot of sports for her. Um, you may like, I like a lot of Bollywood. So a lot of
03:00Bollywood shows show up in my stream. And so it makes it easier for me to find the content.
03:05And then get to the apps that I want to directly, you know, very quick and easy manner. Um, so that,
03:11that's really what I call the connected TV revolution that's happening right now.
03:16And the business models are moving. As we all know, we all see the data. Um, in the U S it's
03:22happening much faster than other countries, um, that we are seeing cable kind of moving to streaming,
03:28but the business model essentially still remains either advertising or subscriptions, you know?
03:33So, so that still remains the same. So some things never change. I think it's just the format in which
03:38it's streamed. Um, I think what is changing on TV though, is a lot of appetite for short form content.
03:44We see that through YouTube shorts, immensely popular on TV. You think it would be just mobile,
03:49but it's not. It's actually happening on TV. TikTok immensely popular on TV. So I think short form is a
03:55big wave that's coming. Social is a big wave that's coming. And then of course, from the Google
04:00perspective, AI is another big wave that's coming. And so from a consumer lens, we've really been
04:06thinking about how do TVs transform into from connected TVs to what we're calling the AI TV.
04:13Um, so we've announced a bunch of things. We announced at CES, we're launching with TCL in
04:19October, a brand new experience that really enables you to use TV in a way that you had never
04:24talked about before. That's through your Gemini platform. That's with Gemini where you can actually
04:29be creative. You can actually bring your whole family together. And what TV was always meant to
04:34be is just like a communal place where you can actually enjoy creativity. You can enjoy watching
04:39shows and you can actually now create things together on your TV. And so that's, that's what
04:45I think is the next wave. Well, in the distribution world, I know I don't have to tell you, it was,
04:49it was a real, real landmark moment a couple of months ago, maybe six, eight weeks ago when,
04:55when YouTube released the data that they are now more viewing of YouTube is everybody's nodding their
05:01head. More viewing of YouTube is happening on that old fashioned, not so dumb TV than it is on the
05:09phone or on, or certainly on the desktop. I actually still watch YouTube on the desktop,
05:13but that tells you something. But that, that was a moment that tells you, that was a moment for
05:17other panelists that you must have, of course, 2B is, is very much in that, but you must have thought
05:22like, you know, that this is just going to accelerate the things that we were doing. I'd love to throw out
05:28to the others. Is there anything that, that, of what Shalini is talking about in terms of the move
05:34toward more bundling, more seamless ease of moving around? Of course, I know with Nicole, you're, you're,
05:41you want to keep them, you all want to keep them on your platform, but what does this moment of sort
05:46of mobility mean for your brands? I'd love for anybody to jump in. You want to take it, Nicole?
05:52Yeah. I mean, we, we probably like Disney, we're available across all connected devices. Mobile is a
05:59huge thing to unlock because when you think about when you're watching your TV, what do you have
06:04next to you on your phone? And are you looking for validation on what to watch? So I think the
06:10mobile component, the web component, they all have to play together, but you can't just take the
06:14product that you have on CTV and port it over to those screens and expect that that is the, you're
06:20going to have the same engagement experience. And so, um, I think we're playing with a lot of like,
06:25you know, shorts within our mobile app so that people can see clips of what we have
06:30save for later to watch on their CTV so that when you're on the go, you're kind of doing that due
06:35diligence before you go home, turn on that screen and it's getting better, but people hit the grid
06:41and they feel paralyzed. And I think where the social convergence is, is the strongest driver of
06:47why to watch something is I heard about it from my friends and family, or I heard about it from
06:54someone and there's that validation because we don't want to take that risk. So I think that
06:58like connecting the social ecosystem and making it more participatory and it's less about critical
07:03review, right? It's more about what are people liking? What are they watching? What are they
07:08seeing in the story? And I want to take a chance or a minute to kind of get into that show. So I think
07:13what we're all up here in service of and the biggest problem in the business is, I think I heard the
07:18latest stat this week was like, it's 50 minutes to find something that you want to watch a week.
07:23That's a year of your life. And then you're just like, I'll just pull up TikTok because it's just
07:30endless, you know, entertainment. So I think that's closing that gap and removing that barrier for
07:38the viewers and removing that barrier in service for higher engagement for advertisers is really what
07:43we're all, you know, solving for. If I build on that, I couldn't agree more that the competition
07:49is for the highest value attention, right? And for Nicole and I, we're going to be...
07:54It's the attention economy.
07:55100%. And if you look at all the numbers, like the amount of attention we're spending with media
07:59is relatively the same, but how it is shifting, right? That's where we're all competing. And for
08:04Nicole and I, we're going to be on YouTube. We're going to be on YouTube TV. Certainly ESPN is on
08:09YouTube TV. ESPN, Disney, Star Wars are some of the biggest brands on YouTube. ESPN is the biggest
08:15brand full stop on TikTok, but how we're bringing that to consumers and audiences is evolving. You
08:22know, ESPN is becoming available as a direct to consumer product this fall. That will be fully
08:28available within Disney Plus in addition to Hulu, which is in within Disney Plus. And on ESPN, the app
08:34itself is going to fully integrate betting features, personalized sports center. I could have gone on and
08:39on with what Candice was talking about, but there'll be 47,000 live games there. And you have to then
08:46have personalization, AI driven tools that are giving different profiles, what they're looking
08:51for. But there's a massive opportunity to get to a place where all the content that's out there can
08:57be brought to people in ways that make sense to them, whether it's on their phones, whether it's in
09:01their living rooms, whether it's on an iPad and, you know, in their bedrooms. And I think it's an
09:06exciting time that we're kind of entering. I think it's one thing everybody has in common is that
09:09navigation challenge, which you have so much to be has almost 300,000 titles. Nikki, as a content
09:16provider, you're, you're out there, you're the free agent selling, selling your truly amazing, you
09:21know, BBC branded high quality content. I know your phone is ringing. Um, and, and now with what we're
09:28talking about, there's even more avenues. What is the, how are you guys seizing this moment?
09:34Yeah. I mean, we're interesting because as BBC studios, we, we make content, we distribute it
09:38ourselves. We also distribute it for fabulous partners like Josh, and we're creating our own
09:43brands. And I think for us, you're now entering a universe where it's more important than other
09:49than ever to understand your fandom and to understand, um, where they are and what they want.
09:55And the sort of traditional windowing structure has gone out the window, right? Used to be relatively
10:00simple. You do a deal, you do a second window, and now it's sort of everything everywhere all
10:05at once. So I think from our point of view, it's being very, very intentional about who
10:10your audience are, where they are, what need state they're in. And to your point about metrics,
10:16you know, when we're going very, we're trying to build fandoms and therefore it's not about
10:20views. You know, we're really thinking about watch time and even beyond that metrics like
10:25UGC because we've got, you know, it's not just about passively consuming content. Actually,
10:30if you really want to motivate a fandom, you want them out there doing stuff as well.
10:34I've noticed people are saying, you know, I get as part of a pitch and within 24 hours,
10:40there were 25,000 TikTok videos referencing this, parroting it, poking fun on it, you know,
10:47whatever it is, they're talking about it. And that is such a metric.
10:51I mean, as a CMO, it's a goddamn dream. I mean, it's like the fan edits and the stories
11:00that they're pulling through and the music that they're picking, they're seeing their
11:04side of it and it lands with so much more authenticity than those of us marketers pushing
11:09a trailer out. I mean, those are the things that excite me the most. They sometimes are
11:13scary, but I've been on the side of the good side of it. And it's just giving them the fans
11:18breadcrumbs so they can make it their own. This generation wants to make it their own.
11:22They want their unique POV. And so I think it's a beautiful thing.
11:26Yeah. I was going to say yesterday, Neil was talking. He also spoke this morning.
11:30Neil Mohan, the CEO of YouTube, who was on Variety's cover in March. We are so proud of that.
11:36Google Neil Mohan. It's Neil with an A, N-E-A-L. And it was such a good story.
11:42Yeah. You know, I think YouTube, the whole creator economy that we've grown through YouTube
11:47is all about fandoms, right? It's all about the amazing content that you all produce.
11:52And then how do you get your fans to actually be so authentic that they create more fans and
11:57it just creates a flywheel. I think that's really-
11:59And they follow you and spend money with you.
12:01Yeah, absolutely. And like, you know, at YouTube, we're like now promoting NFL and, you know,
12:07we have a lot of caveats where we do watch with XYZ. And maybe this is something ESPN would
12:12like to do too, which I think is quite a very interesting way to like showcase something which
12:17is professionally done, but then get your fans to engage.
12:20You have a fun little show with the Manning brothers.
12:23I'll tell kind of two quick stories here. I think like, you know, the personalization,
12:28you can think about, yes, lots of content, serve it to different profiles and personalized way,
12:33but it can also be how you're actually bringing it to people, right? And I'll give an example of,
12:38you know, we have lots of different sports, right? We have Monday night football and Monday night
12:41football. At first, we did simulcasts on ESPN and ABC, and then they're available on Hulu.
12:46But then we started doing all casts with Peyton Manning and his brother, Eli Manning. And I
12:50remember the moment of seeing like the numbers the next day, you're like, hey, is this going to work?
12:54And we didn't know. And then it just screamingly took off. And then Peyton created a show called
12:59Peyton's Places, which is hysterical. We were talking about, it's a little bit of kind of comfort TV.
13:04And then his brother created Eli's Places. And then they did this episode where Eli Manning,
13:09quarterback of the New York Giants, pretended to be a college football tryout. And he goes and crushes
13:16a tryout for a college program disguised as a guy named Chad Powers. That becomes a viral hit,
13:23right? You immediately get kind of that. Fast forward at our upfront about a month ago,
13:27we have Glenn Powell starring in a Hulu original that is about Chad Powers. Fast forward to last
13:35month, we have 15 integrated sponsors and advertisers, and we sold it out in a month,
13:40right? So it's like that all, there's a whole journey there to something that has immediate
13:45commercial relevance with advertisers that started with something of like, hey, is this going to work?
13:51You incubated something that two minutes or one minute connected with people. And there you go.
13:56And I just want to say Glenn Powell is a major movie star. And for him to be attracted to this,
14:01that again, just speaks to the world where we are. I mean, I'm curious, I would love, again,
14:06some common themes here. You're all dealing with personalization, perhaps a little bit less on the
14:11BBC side, but you're all dealing with the personalization. What have you found has been really
14:17effective, I mean, technology, obviously, AI is working at this, you know, going 60 miles an hour,
14:24trying to get it better and better. But from a consumer application perspective, what have you
14:29found has taken, you know, what has motivated viewers to actually go through the steps to start
14:36that personalization to let them know? As I understand, I mean, now it's so, the technology is
14:43so intuitive that you're trained just by what you watch. But I'd love to know just your experiences
14:48sort of on the ground. I don't know, Shalini, if you have perspective from just the viewing behavior
14:55that you can kind of, that you can see at that high level.
15:00So I would say two things. One is, you know, of course, yes, we're always looking at signals to
15:05understand what more can we offer that would be interesting for the viewer or the user.
15:13But we also have to remember, like, here's one thing that I really believe in, which is too much
15:18personalization is also not necessarily a good thing. This is one of the lessons.
15:23Interesting perspective.
15:23I will tell you, because one of the things we've realized is it can put people in rabbit holes.
15:29We saw that a lot at YouTube when I was there, where people just like went into a rabbit hole
15:34where you start watching certain content, you keep getting more and more recommendations of the
15:39same thing. And actually, you don't maybe want that, but you think maybe this whole universe
15:43is only about this content. And therefore, maybe that's the only thing that's true.
15:48And so I'm a strong believer that we don't want to over personalize either. And so one of the things
15:54we do very, very much on Google TV that Lisa actually runs is try to pop people out and say,
16:00hey, we know you like these type of things. However, we also want to expose you to a
16:04breadth of different things that are happening across the world that maybe would be interesting.
16:10And we find that users actually want to do that. And, you know, like, for example, like,
16:14during Black History Month, we'll pop out, like, a whole array of content that is amazing black
16:20leaders that maybe people didn't know about and really want to find out more on. And so we use all
16:26of these signals to actually help people also understand the breadth of content that's out there
16:31that can actually be so inspiring and inspirational.
16:34That shows that your experience from YouTube, you know, dealing with that, it's interesting that
16:40you almost have to put sort of a limit on the personalization. And I can only imagine the tools
16:46to build to, the tool that you would have to build to think about, okay, this person likes this type
16:54of content. But what slightly out of that could be, I mean, and I know that this is what, you know,
16:59this is what the AI hamster wheels are generating all day long. Nicole, you were going to say?
17:04I mean, I completely agree with that. We actually, you know, we did a campaign once that was find
17:09your rabbit hole. But the way we define rabbit holes is that, like, you know, people aren't so
17:14one-dimensional. And I think the misnomer is, and especially when you have brand new viewers coming
17:19on, how quickly do you get to know them, but you don't want to put them in a box. Like, my comfort,
17:24I go to bed to housewives screaming at night. That's very different than, like, what I'm
17:29watching with my family. Like, we're all very multifaceted in our viewing. So I think the
17:34over-personalization of saying this person likes sports or this person likes horror and we're just
17:39going to serve them that is a disservice to the experience. So I think that figuring out, and I
17:45think the mood viewing is really interesting of, like, what am I in the mood for? If I'm cooking dinner
17:51and I just want to decompress, I want to learn something, I want to go to sleep peacefully,
17:56and that means different things to all of us. So I guess you could say the Spotify-ization
18:00of TV where you're kind of giving people maybe more of a journey for a mood or, you know, seasonal
18:09is a little too on the nose, but I think there's something there. But I think the over-personalization
18:15is bad because then you're only getting one thing. And I think we all want the element of
18:21surprise and entertainment and seeing something distinct and new that makes us feel something
18:26different. And that's our jobs as entertainers in this business.
18:30And marketers, yeah.
18:31And I was going to say, I think it's particularly important where you want to have a really strong
18:34editorial point of view. And obviously in things like bbc.com, the news, we have an incredible
18:41responsibility. And so I think there you really have to manage personalization. Yes, of course,
18:47that's important. But absolutely, you want to keep your editorial authenticity and impartiality.
18:52And so that's something particularly important for bbc from a news point of view.
18:57That's a dimension for sure that is growing.
19:00Yeah, Cindy, if I could take it from actually an advertising perspective. So I get the question
19:04is from like a consumer experience perspective, but I'm going to take it through the consumer
19:07experience for ads. So just for a sense of context, in our business, I see about 5 billion
19:13ads delivered just in our streaming services every week. I see about 50,000 ad creatives
19:19come through that have to get checked for brand and technical specs before they actually run.
19:26And right now we've got about 2,000 different audience segments and people are constantly
19:31coming to us saying, can you make those more and more personalized? Which technically you can,
19:36but then you get down to four people.
19:38They want that. They want to hit that sweet spot.
19:40And we often have a conversation of, yes, there is personalization through advertising
19:44and targeting that is valuable, but you can get too narrow too quickly and miss out what the bigger
19:50opportunity is. So a lot of what Nicole is talking about, we see the same thing from an advertising
19:53perspective. And we talk about an ad world that kind of is one to many. That's kind of a Nielsen
19:59approach, one to one. And now it's like one to what is the business trying to do from an
20:03outcomes perspective. And that isn't just one to one where, Hey, if I'm seeing 5 billion
20:08impressions, how do I make sure every single one of you see something slightly different?
20:12There's actually clusters of you and there's probabilistic data versus deterministic data.
20:18And that becomes a real transformation in the advertising business where you're,
20:22you're not just getting to the precision of that one person. You're trying to get the clusters
20:26of people that might be like that.
20:28And, and again, the search for those clusters in a world of, you know, just even just in
20:34the U S that's approaching 120 million television homes, that feels like a very ancient statistic,
20:40but it's, it's, it's about 120 million. I mean, that just, you, you would, you have to
20:45have AI, no human being, you couldn't hire enough people to do the traffic and all of that.
20:50And that, again, that just shows, you know, 10 years ago, what, what we were talking about
20:56would have sounded like Latin to, it just would not have made any sense, but it's
20:59I think I still sound like Latin sometimes.
21:01I wanted to talk about innovations in, we've talked about the personalization
21:04innovation in how, in how people are, how ads are served. You know, you guys have been doing
21:10things, very creative things with pause moments, um, you know, integrating, having
21:16certainly people are now are very accustomed to, would you like to watch this ad? Or, you know,
21:21YouTube has its moment of Zen and Disney plus has its fun little interstitial
21:25bits. There's, there seems like there's so much creativity in every second that you have
21:29people on the platform. Yeah. I would say that if you started the creative, we can talk about all
21:34the ad tech, but I think, I mean, it's good that you're seeing a lot of variants. I think that
21:39streaming is still being treated as a TV commercial dumping ground and it's not one to many. And so I
21:46would like advertisers to think of the streaming space. Think about the audience is younger.
21:50You can't just take, you know, your tight ad that you're running, you know, linear and place it and
21:55expect that it's going to deliver the same things. I think the contextual moments are really interesting
21:59of saying, I want, I'm a beer brand and I want to be, I want to run my ad every time someone's
22:05celebrating a party or a moment, or every time this happens in a sporting event, that this one thing
22:11happens, we want to be there because that, that marriage of that contextual placement is really
22:16important and AI is going to enable that. So I think it's first the creative because, you know,
22:20creative effectiveness is like 70% of the campaign. We can talk about, you know, targeting
22:25and all of those things, but great creative is what wins and breaks through. So I do, I think that
22:31like it, it, it's just kind of in a moment, yes, it's the same screen, but the demo and the way
22:37they're watching and it's, you know, it's mostly VOD and sometimes it's, it's live. Those moments all
22:43matter. And so I just think paying more attention versus like, I, we still see a lot of it. It's an
22:48extension of my linear TV plan versus like, you should be thinking streaming first. And how people
22:53are going to be considering that Josh is not vigorous. Nicole and I should do more panels
22:57together. This is about like, we, we, we've actually unveiled products. We unveiled a product
23:01called, uh, magic words, which is exactly what Nicole is saying, where we can look at scene level
23:07metadata to understand if someone's just watching a scene and what mood they're likely to be in
23:12and then surface advertising to match that mood. We announced that about a year and a half ago.
23:16We then brought that to live sports and live sports. It's moments. We all know when we watch
23:20games, there's a big change and you know, the bill score, you know, or something in the fourth
23:24quarter, you feel something different. Well, that ad experience that happens at that moment
23:28is more valuable. So you now have the technology to do that. So I think it's, it's how you're bringing
23:33the advertising to people, the formats you're bringing to people. And we're living in a world where
23:37the tools to create ads are just getting so much faster. There's, there's proliferation of AI based
23:43tools and you have to be able to take those in, test those and deliver them in new ways.
23:47And I agree. We're kind of stick with a sports analogy in the middle innings of kind of what's
23:52possible about contextual, about formats, about shop, shopping and interactivity. Right. And all those
23:59things I think are really in their mid innings. You know, we're not, we're not fully there yet.
24:03Kind of on what's possible. The whole, we would need another hour. The whole world of shopping and
24:08TV that is merging so much is, there's, it's incredible. Shalini, you were. I was just going
24:14to make a comment on the whole monetization and business. Very important part of it. You know,
24:20because if you look at all the different streaming platforms, they're all, they all have a variety of
24:25solutions. Of course, there's fully ad supported. But then, you know, even like a Disney or a Netflix
24:31are experimenting with fewer ads, some subscription, all subscription. YouTube has a YouTube premium
24:38program that is actually doing very well with the younger demographics, which you wouldn't have
24:42thought of because they don't want to watch ads and they would rather pay. So those are all like
24:47models, I think, that we're starting to see more of and people are experimenting with it. As you said,
24:53shopping, I'm a big believer of shopping on TV because how many times have you watched Emily in Paris
24:59and then bought, you know, the clothes that she's wearing? Or at least coveted them, yes. Or traveled,
25:04right? And I think that those are huge use cases, again, that people are starting to experiment with.
25:10So I think the jury's out, like, if it's going to be only advertising or there's going to be
25:14middle modalities and, you know, are other modalities going to come out as well?
25:20I'd be curious what you, just from your, that high level of Google TV, I'm guessing that your
25:25analysts can find patterns just in seeing how people move from app to app, what time of day,
25:31what, how long they watch, what type of, what type of content. You probably have quite a perch on
25:36sort of what the, what the profile of the, of the, I mean, there's no typical net Netflix or Disney
25:42plus user, but I'm guessing that you have a lot of insights just in, just in watching how people
25:46move through the system as it exists now. And I think we can all agree that there's, you know,
25:51there's room for innovation in a lot of the presentation. Yeah. I mean, I will say legal
25:58disclaimer that we do not actually track what the person is watching. I mean, at that very high
26:03level. Yeah. We, we're kind of tracking at like what app that they're opening. And I mean,
26:09we publish regularly on what are the top apps. I think they're pretty well known. I, I usually just
26:16reflect on like, what are the interesting habits that people have that help them understand like
26:21what they're going to find enjoyment with, especially when they're with their families
26:25or in the communal setting. And so those are more of the cues that we're constantly looking for is,
26:30is this happening when the person is by themselves or is it happening in a group? And, you know,
26:35how can we serve them better in those modalities?
26:38Nikki, how does all of this, what we're talking about, there's so many inputs that can be analyzed.
26:42And I also know that there can be over analysis paralysis, but how does that influence in terms
26:48of, you know, BBC is a global provider. How does that influence what you focus on,
26:52what you put your emphasis on content development, the themes, the subjects?
26:56Yeah. So, I mean, we're always looking to hear back from our platforms on what's working.
27:01And, but as I said at the beginning, I think it becomes technology happens, but what's really
27:06important is to start with the creativity and the brilliance of the content and then think about how
27:11you apply that into the different ecosystems. So the ecosystem always changes, but the need for
27:16strong brands at the core of it, be it Bluey, be our natural history content, be it, be-
27:20Oh, more than ever in a world of a hundred thousand tiles.
27:24Yeah, exactly. And whatever sort of gen AI, all of those things comes along. So I sort of come back to
27:29don't lose your core truth about your audience, your brilliant idea about your show. And then think
27:35about how you can use the technology to augment that. And, and I think it's really important for the
27:39sort of, that our partners in this to know you're, you're, you're trying to build that they're trying
27:44to build their business, but you're trying to build a cohesive brand ecosystem. And so I think
27:48helping people think about how they can join the dots as a brand as well is really, really,
27:54is really important.
27:55Can I do a quick build on that? So we opened on Monday, we had a writer by the name of Dan
28:01Fogelman who created a couple of shows. You might've heard of paradise, only murders in the
28:05building. This is us. He created the movie car, wrote the movie cars, tangled. So five hits,
28:12he wrote all of these. They're, they're incredible. Um, and he was there with Sterling Brown, who's
28:16the star of paradise and Dana Walden is the co-chair for Disney entertainment. And I think
28:21that creativity core is, is massive. And I think to kind of the, some of the other conversations,
28:27you know, yes, personalization, but ultimately you need a great story and you need great content.
28:32Yeah. It all starts with that. And then you have, uh, 10,000 people on Tik TOK doing your,
28:38helping you with your marketing.
28:39Well, and I think the thing on the ads front, cause you, you know, younger, younger people
28:44don't like ads. I think, well, they watch ads on Tik TOK cause they're entertaining. And this is
28:48can lion to all the marketers out there. Our job is to entertain. It is to sell, but it's ultimately
28:54to entertain and ads shouldn't feel like ads. So thinking about the ad formats that don't feel
28:58intrusive, that don't feel interruptive, that feel like it's providing value in the moment that
29:03they're viewing. I mean, we can all buy our way to reach and frequency. It doesn't mean that,
29:06that, that that's effective. So the effectiveness is the, is the key piece. And I think our challenge
29:13is being ad supportive platforms is continuing to evolve that. So it doesn't feel like a bummer
29:18disruption. Look at Superbowl. People watch just for the ads, you know, every day could be not big
29:23budgets, but I think creative storytelling. We, we maybe have lost the plot, um, somewhere along
29:29the way, but it shouldn't feel like an ad. I'll do a fun fact to back this up. So Hulu has given
29:34people a choice for over 15 years. Do you want ads? Do you want not ads? Two thirds of Hulu
29:39subscribers choose the ad support tier. Disney plus has been doing it domestically for several years,
29:44doing internationally over the last year, over 50% of people are choosing with ads. We've run
29:50research. People don't hate ads. They hate bad ads. They hate ads that are out of context. But if you
29:55put them in context, you make them entertaining, you give creative choices. Younger audiences don't
30:00hate ads. Like again, go to any of the mobile experiences, go to Tik TOK, go to, there's massive
30:05amounts of ads there, right? But they're done in a way that matches the experience that entertains
30:09and informs and makes it easy. And fun fact, as I understand the ad supported tier is the, is the
30:15drives the greatest ARPU for the, that drives the great average. Legal disclaimer.
30:21So I will say we are neutral as a business to what tier, tier people choose. And that,
30:26and that's by design. And we want to both as a business internally, but also for consumers,
30:30we want to buy a choice basically and flexibility for consumers. And I just wanted to come in with
30:35something about sort of, I think there's a sense, or there's been a bit of a sense that you have to
30:38spend a lot of money to make great ads. And particularly coming from a sort of a broadcaster
30:43with a hundred year heritage, there's sort of a sense everything's got to be perfect and beautiful
30:46and high production values. But one of the things we're also, it doesn't have to be expensive,
30:50right? There's a redefinition of quality, that the quality is in the eye of the beholder.
30:54And like you said, there's some incredible creativity on Tik TOKs. Everyone's got a phone.
30:58And I think it's raising the stakes. I really do.
31:01It really is. And people have got to be open, like older people like me, you've got to reframe your
31:06beliefs. You've got to kind of like understand that what works is what engages. And that might look
31:11something, something very different than what we grew up with.
31:14That sounds like a slogan. What works is what engages.
31:17You can have that for free.
31:18What works is in the eyes of the beholder, right? And I think that's what we always strive for.
31:23And, you know, going back to the monetization models, I think, yes, like it's for centuries,
31:29we have been having two modalities, right? It's either advertising or you pay and you don't watch ads.
31:35And I think that people usually prefer something in the middle because totally I watch Super Bowl
31:40only for the ads. We are an advertising company. And so I think that it, that will remain true.
31:47Is there anything that you, with YouTube shorts, obviously you have such, you know,
31:51incredible uptake really fast. Is there anything that you, again, that high level, I know you don't
31:56track down to that, but high level about how people consume, you know, how people, the amount of time
32:03that they'll spend going through a bunch of shorts versus like, you know, two or three hour long
32:08episodes of a drama. Is it just patterns that are different that you've discerned?
32:13I can't comment on that, but what I will say is the biggest thing that we find is with shorts on TV
32:21and, and largely on the phone too, is the autoplay part of it is really what people go for.
32:27TikTok as well is, you know, you start with something and then the recommendation engine
32:33is so powerful that people just want to keep watching the next one. And that's really the key
32:38to it. And that's what keeps people engaged. So yes, I, I don't think your intuition on do people
32:43just watch one or two? I think people watch more than that in a sitting.
32:47Josh, obviously you, you know, the, the untethering of ESPN from the sort of linear cable verse,
32:56I guess untethering isn't quite the right word because it will still, ESPN will still be available
33:00on, on charter and Comcast and direct TV. But the big, but the big thing is that you will,
33:06if you so desire, you can buy it standalone or you can buy it in the Disney bundle. I am a Disney bundle
33:11person. And I'm at this point though, I am paying for ESPN, I think three different ways between the
33:18ESPN. But that, but that's the, but that, and honestly, that is the, um, just the centrality of
33:24the brand. It is rooted in, if you want, you know, if you want content packages, you're going to get
33:29ESPN, but I'm excited to see the standalone. So you will be able to buy it standalone or all again,
33:34also in the bundle. Can you talk about, you know, as you said, you're going to have some 45,000 or so
33:40games, just even the, even how you're going to organize all of that in, in line with everything that
33:47we're saying to get the person that wants lacrosse from their East coast alma mater versus the person
33:52that could not care less, but wants pickleball all day long. I love this. So, and I love that
33:57you're a sports fan too. So you completely get this. So this fall ESPN, all of the linear networks
34:03will be available, uh, direct to consumer. And those will all be through the ESPN app. And I would
34:09think about this as kind of a two part one. You can subscribe and get all 47,000 live shows that
34:16ESPN does every year. That's kind of part one, part two, we're going to enhance the ESPN app with
34:21a bunch more features and that's personalized sports center. That's additional, uh, stats and
34:26statistics. It's, um, you know, integrated betting fantasy and, and like, and that's all within the
34:33ESPN app. And it's also going to be available, uh, all of the direct to consumer games within Disney
34:38plus, right? So that's all. And Hulu is already within Disney plus the thing I'll just kind of,
34:43what I'm most excited about is I love college sports. And when Candace was up here talking about
34:48like last weekend, I was watching the women's college softball world series. And I've watched
34:53that multiple times before, but this year it did the highest numbers ever in the previous year was
34:592007. Right. And so it's really excited in 2025 to see beating a 2007 number. Patrick Mahomes was there
35:07going nuts for Texas tech. Yep. The pitcher for Texas tech was making a million dollars in an NIL deal.
35:13Because she's worth it. And we were watching as a family in the big screen in the living room.
35:17And I'm so excited for everyone to have that experience and discover new sports. Cause I think,
35:23I mean, what Candace was saying, all of it was spot on. There is no cap to sports in terms of
35:29the interest. It's just making it available to people. When I go home, I'm going to be watching
35:33the college baseball world series in Omaha, right? It's, it's incredible sport. So yes,
35:38we know about the NFL, the NBA, all the major leagues are doing very well, but I think what's
35:43happening across college sports, uh, and even beyond is incredibly exciting and how you can
35:48bring that to people. And it's just, it's incredibly exciting. So I do, I, to your point though, I do
35:54think that the, both the availability and the just incredible presentation that can be brought to bear
35:59now. I think that is really, that is minting more sports fans. The college softball world series
36:04had all casts and we've thought we did the main broadcast as a family. And then my daughter
36:09wanted to watch the all cast, which was some former players just having fun during the game.
36:13And, and I think that is the future of sports, right? Is, is not just more sports, but more
36:20sports brought to people in different ways. And it's just an incredibly exciting time to be a sports
36:25fan. And I think it's an incredibly time for, you know, advertisers that want to be around that.
36:29And I've been talking to brands this week of how to connect more into college sports.
36:34And, you know, you earlier this week, um, Rita Farrell, my boss talked about brands that have
36:38been long time supporters of women's sports. Google has been a tremendous partner there.
36:44Uh, allied sports has been, or allied bank has been a tremendous partner there.
36:48And what Candace was talking about with bringing the WNBA to ABC, that was because, uh, Google
36:54required it in a deal that we did several years around the sponsorship. So that that's pretty
36:59exciting that that's happened. These, I mean, these are incremental decisions made by human
37:03beings that, that forgive me, move the ball forward. And I, so thank you for shouting that
37:09out. I, I, you know, when, when we find out about those moments, we always try to champion them
37:14because it just goes to show it's the Margaret Mead quote, only a small group of people ever
37:19changed the world. That is so great to know. Thank you for sharing that. And, and, you know,
37:23but as the representative of Google, it's that, it's that kind of corporate priority that says
37:28this must happen. That's incredible. Um, again, as an early adopter of ESPN plus, which is sort
37:36of is, will be sort of more, will be morphed into that was the original streaming iteration
37:42of ESPN. That was not, I was just going to take another hour, not mothership ESPN, but
37:47other things and had all kinds of interesting offbeat sports and the patents places. Was there
37:53anything you learned from ESPN plus days, you know, that, that all, that there was pockets
37:58of interest in lacrosse or other types of kind of exotics to, were there a lot of learnings
38:03from ESPN plus? I think from so many different dimensions, I think from, you know, what thirties
38:08for thirties, I could go on to the King's ransom, you know, about Edmonton Oilers. We just finish a
38:12great, um, NHL, uh, finals. And, but I can think about what people, what's what 30 for thirties
38:19are people are watching when they watch. I see all the numbers of ad delivery. And so
38:23what you see on Saturdays and Sundays and Mondays are massively bigger than the middle
38:28of the week. So I can tell what days of the people, um, days of the week people are watching.
38:32So I think all that goes into ultimately what we're going to be bringing people from a direct
38:37to consumer. So it's almost was a precursor. This has been kind of a long time in the works
38:40and, uh, you know, you can tell I get really excited about it because I think it's going to
38:44be great for sports fans. Um, all of that info, all of the info that we've been talking
38:48about it, it, it is all we're seeing now harnessed in large part by, by tools that can compute
38:54at a rate that we can is making a better experience. It's making, it's making people
38:59and, and the, the content that they love. So Candace referenced white Lotus, the content
39:03that they love, they love, you know, the paradise, the fandom around paradise also highly recommended,
39:09very good thriller on Hulu. I mean, the fandom around that was so fast. Of course you had
39:14sterling. That was a, that was a big draw, but like to see, to see what can, what can
39:18develop around, around shows when you hit it, when is somebody said, is we have all said
39:23the creative is just when the creative is excellent and, and resonates it, it really, you can see
39:29it.
39:29I mean, Bluey's become a manual for parenting, right? I mean that to talk about the zeitgeist,
39:34it's, it's, you know, a show when it, when it, when it takes really just, just, just can
39:39go and do all sorts of extraordinary. And an example of what we're talking about, sort
39:43of a brand that is very, I won't say portable, but it's on YouTube, it's on BBC, it's now
39:49on, you know, it's Disney, Disney plus has a, has a, has its stake in Bluey.
39:54It's fun to see what libraries do too. Like I, you know, looking at what the Simpsons,
39:58there's so massive viewership around the Simpsons and, you know, I get to watch it firsthand
40:02of 11 year old son rediscovering the Simpsons that I watched as an 11 year old and it holds
40:07up. It's, it's great. It's genius and genius and absolutely how it holds up.
40:11And I think showed the partnership, right? Because again, rights are complicated, windows
40:15are complicated and if you want to build these properties and cut through, you've got to work
40:19with other people to make it happen. So we wouldn't have grown Bluey the way we have without
40:23our incredible partners, Disney, the ABC, our own public service broadcaster, but it really
40:29does take a village to kind of like build some of these brands.
40:32And that village starts though with four and five year olds. If it, if it didn't engage
40:36them, then it would, you wouldn't have that property.
40:39Never losing sight of your core audience. I mean, that's the challenge because you're
40:42sort of trying to be everywhere, everything all at once, but if you don't replenish that
40:46core and keep delighting the core, there's sort of a risk that it, that it falls down.
40:50That village analogy, that, that village has massive libraries of programming for the whole
40:55family. That village has super strong originals for different, you know, different genres and
41:00content. That village has live sports that, that matter. And that village has news.
41:05And if you bring those four things together and you do it in different formats and ways,
41:10we talked about mobile furs, social living rooms, but that's what the village is made up of.
41:15And the personalities behind those villages too, right? So, you know, it's, it's the people
41:20creating shows. It's, it's certainly, you know, Candace, the athletes, you know, people don't just
41:24have favorite teams anymore. They have players that they love regardless of the team.
41:28And people follow players much more so than teams, which is entirely counterintuitive to me,
41:33but the, but the younger generations for sure. Tell us something that was so interesting.
41:38Your point about there can be over personalization. Tell us something that is sort of
41:42counterintuitive about your business, but really important. Something you'd like people to know
41:47is a challenge or something that is that, that you're grappling with that really reflects some
41:53of the cross currents that we have been talking about today. Josh, you've got a bunch of big things
42:00coming up. You could think of something. I'm going to go, I, you know, the thing I,
42:03none of us have talked about is we all have big teams of people and how are those people's roles
42:09going to evolve? And I both kind of get really excited about that because it changes, is fun and
42:15exciting. But I just think that the industry that work, that we work in, that the way we work is going
42:21to evolve pretty significantly. And that can be both scary and exciting. And my best days are when I'm
42:28around people who are bringing new ideas, new ways of working. And I have teams of hundreds and
42:33hundreds of people and like how they come and do their jobs is going to evolve. And I get excited
42:38about that for sure. I'm going to go with a sort of nothing's changed in a hundred years and
42:43everything has changed in a hundred years because the BBC has been informing, educating and entertaining
42:48audiences for a hundred years. And that principle has actually not changed at all, but just the way you
42:54do it changes every day. But I think for me, don't ever lose that. It starts with a brilliant creative
43:01spark. It starts with integrity, authenticity, storytelling, and the way you do that will
43:07change. I mean, almost by the hour at the moment, but, but don't ever lose sight of that.
43:13Good words.
43:14You know, we're in an extreme time of disruption, whether it's across the media landscape,
43:19across entertainment, across how younger consumers are coming to the table, AI creators,
43:23it can feel anxiety riddened. It can strike fear in the industry. But I, all I see in these moments
43:31is just incredible opportunity for us all. And, um, I can sense that from you guys.
43:36Yeah. And, and, you know, at the end of the day, I, it's almost like, what do you call, like,
43:40it's about people and it's about providing value to people. And we talk about personal duty,
43:45but it's really right now, everybody wants something to root for. They want to escape or they want a warm
43:50blanket and a comfortable hug. And that can be delivered through sports. It can be library content,
43:55nostalgia content. And so I just think about meeting people where they are. And you think
44:00about the economic and political landscape, we can't lose sight of how all these things are in
44:04service of, of really, you know, kindness and bringing more hope and optimism into the world.
44:10Oh boy. Yes. I would say reflecting on many of the thoughts here. One is, this is the golden era
44:18of creativity. Really? Like if you look at the amount of content, you look at the amount of ads
44:22that are so brilliant and so creative, there has never been a time where you see so much of amazing
44:29content that you actually don't know when you're going to get time to watch it all. Like that's
44:35really how I feel. I have that anxiety. I will say the, the, the disruption that we were talking
44:42about is going to actually create a lot more content. And I think the challenge for platforms
44:47like ours that we are up to and that we're thinking about is in this dearth of content or rather this
44:53extreme amount of content, how do we make sure that the brands, the, the fact that these are amazing
45:00stories that we want to bubble up, how do we make sure that those are bubbling up and really
45:05attracting audiences? So I think that's one big challenge for us that we're, we're taking on.
45:10I had, how much is too much written down here, but I, we don't, we, we would again need another hour.
45:16I, I, you know, there was an interesting study that was done by Nielsen recently, and they said,
45:21there's so much content right now. However, only 8% across Netflix, YouTube, probably TikTok. I don't
45:29think TikTok was part of it. Disney, only 8% is viewed by, by the masses. And that just goes to
45:37show that real good storytelling is hard, but when you get there, you will get the audience regardless.
45:43And so I think that would be my focus and my message to everyone is focus on the creative
45:48storytelling that resonates with your audience. The top of that long tail. Thank you all so much.
45:55This has been really fun. I hope you've, I hope you've enjoyed it. I've really enjoyed it.
45:58Thank you to our panelists. Thank you, Shalini. Thank you.
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