- 6/30/2025
In this call in, Stefan Molyneux speaks with a caller who shares his experience of connecting with a woman he met at a dance event. Although initially attracted to her charm, the caller uncovers deeper issues as their relationship develops. He learns about her troubled past, including a prior long-term relationship and her experiences with casual relationships, culminating in a significant revelation of childhood trauma.
As the caller grapples with the disconnect between his initial perception of her and the dysfunctions he encounters, Stefan highlights the importance of recognizing one's inner critic and the complexities of attraction to seemingly lovely individuals with hidden struggles. The discussion emphasizes the need for self-awareness and discernment in romantic pursuits and the impact of personal history on relationships. Ultimately, the conversation provides valuable insights into navigating emotional dynamics and fostering healthier connections.
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As the caller grapples with the disconnect between his initial perception of her and the dysfunctions he encounters, Stefan highlights the importance of recognizing one's inner critic and the complexities of attraction to seemingly lovely individuals with hidden struggles. The discussion emphasizes the need for self-awareness and discernment in romantic pursuits and the impact of personal history on relationships. Ultimately, the conversation provides valuable insights into navigating emotional dynamics and fostering healthier connections.
FOLLOW ME ON X! https://x.com/StefanMolyneux
GET MY NEW BOOK 'PEACEFUL PARENTING', THE INTERACTIVE PEACEFUL PARENTING AI, AND THE FULL AUDIOBOOK!
https://peacefulparenting.com/
Join the PREMIUM philosophy community on the web for free!
Subscribers get 12 HOURS on the "Truth About the French Revolution," multiple interactive multi-lingual philosophy AIs trained on thousands of hours of my material - as well as AIs for Real-Time Relationships, Bitcoin, Peaceful Parenting, and Call-In Shows!
You also receive private livestreams, HUNDREDS of exclusive premium shows, early release podcasts, the 22 Part History of Philosophers series and much more!
See you soon!
https://freedomain.locals.com/support/promo/UPB2025
Category
📚
LearningTranscript
00:00:00Hi there, this is Stefan Molyneux. Just wanted to give you a little bit of background for this conversation. There was a live stream where this caller presented a woman that he went on a date with as a lovely person, and then we found out over the course of the live stream that she had real issues and problems and dysfunctions, as you'll sort of hear about in the call.
00:00:20So, I wanted to sort of explore why he would introduce a woman with a lot of problems as a lovely person, and we agreed to have a call in about it, which was great, and I think very instructive. So, that's the background for this call, and here we go.
00:00:38Okay, so, good to chat. I guess this is coming off the live stream, so tell me about the lady.
00:00:46Yeah, so, I had met her at a dance on the one Saturday, and just by chance, you know, we both needed a partner to dance with, so, as is the procedure there, we both put our hand up, we both saw each other, started dancing, and I liked dancing with her, and she seemed nice, and I don't like always going and asking for a partner,
00:01:15So, this time I decided, hey, you know, I like dancing with you, if you'd like to keep dancing, and...
00:01:20I'm sorry, I'm getting quite a bit of rustling or crinkling from your microphone.
00:01:24Oh, sorry. Uh-huh. Is this any better?
00:01:27I just, yeah, try and hold still while you're talking, but go ahead.
00:01:29Okay. Gotcha. And so, yeah, I asked her if she wanted to keep dancing throughout the night, and she agreed.
00:01:37And, uh, she was there alone, so she sat beside me, we chatted throughout the night, and kept doing some dancing.
00:01:45At the end of the night, I decided to ask for her number, and, yeah, with what she shared that evening, uh, I was a little suspicious, but, uh, not overly so.
00:01:56And so, we started texting throughout the week, and, yeah, my alarm bell started ringing a bit more with what she was sharing.
00:02:05Um, one of the first ones is the fact that she was dating somebody 25 years older than her, for like eight years, which is like a whole shit.
00:02:13So, she was dating someone who was 25 years older than her, and she'd been dating him for eight years.
00:02:18Yes. Yes. She started at 27, and it ended at when she was 35.
00:02:26Oh, so it was over?
00:02:28Yes.
00:02:28So, she had been dating, not she was currently. Okay, got it.
00:02:31Yeah, had been. Yes.
00:02:33And, yeah, this is, uh, ever since I started looking for a girlfriend about two or three months ago, this is the first one I actually got her phone number, and we've been chatting.
00:02:45Uh, I've had a couple of chats, uh, more than a few on dating apps that haven't really led anywhere.
00:02:51So, I asked this woman if she wanted to go on a date the following Saturday, uh, go for a hike or a dinner or something, and she agreed.
00:02:59And with what she was sharing over text, um, I, I pushed back on it a lot.
00:03:05I said that, you know, this probably isn't something we should be talking about over text.
00:03:08And I also kind of suspected that she wasn't going to be the woman for me, and besides from the fact that she was 38, and, yeah, that Saturday, I am 29.
00:03:20Okay.
00:03:21And that Saturday, it confirmed pretty much everything I suspected that, you know, she was, she was quite a mess, like, between all the men she was dating, most of which were just friends with benefits.
00:03:37Wait, so the men she was currently dating?
00:03:40I, well, she just broke up with one.
00:03:43Not the one who was old.
00:03:44So she was single?
00:03:45No.
00:03:46So, yeah, there was a lot, it was hard for me to keep up with, but she had this revolving door of men at all times, it seemed.
00:03:54And I suspected that maybe somewhere along the line, she had an abortion or a miscarriage, which was true.
00:04:02She did have an abortion because she was dating this guy who was not really dating.
00:04:07It was a friend with benefits.
00:04:09And she got pregnant from him at the age of, like, 36.
00:04:13And that relationship, of course, didn't work out.
00:04:17And so she got an abortion from that.
00:04:19And, yeah, just all across the board.
00:04:22I don't know if you really need too much detail.
00:04:24But, yeah, absolute mess.
00:04:26And I was pointing out that a lot of her adult dysfunctions were likely a one-to-one correlation with what she went through as a kid because she had significantly older brothers that were molesting her starting at the age of four.
00:04:43And she told you this when?
00:04:48On the Saturday.
00:04:50Sorry, on the Saturday, you've got to break it down for me a little bit more.
00:04:56Okay, so you met her on which day?
00:04:58The Saturday, we went to a dance.
00:05:03So the first Saturday.
00:05:04Okay.
00:05:04And the following Saturday is when we went on the hike.
00:05:06And it was on the hike that she said she was molested by her older brothers.
00:05:12Okay.
00:05:13So on your first date?
00:05:16Yes.
00:05:18Okay.
00:05:19Got it.
00:05:19First and last.
00:05:21Yes.
00:05:22Okay.
00:05:22Got it.
00:05:23Yeah, it was that Sunday morning after the hike date that I shared what I did in the live stream.
00:05:31And we had our chat there.
00:05:34And, yeah, looking back on that live stream when I originally said she was a lovely woman.
00:05:42Like, yeah, I could see where you're coming from because I was not familiar with the term superficial charm.
00:05:49But that's exactly what it was.
00:05:51Like, she was an absolute mess, but she came across as very peppy and fun to be around.
00:05:57And she definitely was not.
00:06:01So she definitely was not fun to be around?
00:06:04No, sorry.
00:06:05Like, underneath, like, she was just not a good person.
00:06:09Like, she just came across as friendly and fun, but she really was a mess.
00:06:13Okay, so hang on.
00:06:15So hang on.
00:06:15This is very confusing to me.
00:06:16So we have fun, not fun.
00:06:18We have seemingly together, but a mess.
00:06:21And then you also mentioned she was not a good person.
00:06:23And these are three very different categories.
00:06:25And I'm getting a little dizzy trying to navigate between them all.
00:06:29Right.
00:06:29Okay.
00:06:30Let me clarify that for you.
00:06:32So when I met her and we first started chatting, even through text, I found her fun, enjoyable to be around.
00:06:40Sorry, did you not meet her at the dance?
00:06:43Yes.
00:06:44Okay, so you met her at the dance.
00:06:45And now you throw in the texting, which is after, right?
00:06:47You got to give me a timeline that makes sense.
00:06:49This is jumping all over the place.
00:06:51All right.
00:06:52Sorry.
00:06:52Yeah.
00:06:52So the only reason you were texting her is because you enjoyed her physical presence at the dance, right?
00:06:59Yes.
00:07:00Okay.
00:07:00And throughout that week, right after I had met her on a Saturday, that's when we were texting.
00:07:09And yeah, I was enjoying talking to her, getting to know her a bit, seeing a lot of her art, which is really fantastic.
00:07:16And the more we started texting throughout that week, leading up to the following Saturday, where we went on the hike, that's when I started to realize that her friendly demeanor was more of a superficial charm.
00:07:37And she actually was a bit of a mess as a person.
00:07:43And okay.
00:07:44So again, we're, the language is confusing to me.
00:07:47You said she was a real mess and a bad person.
00:07:49Now you're saying she's a bit of a mess.
00:07:50It's again, it's very confusing to follow what you're, what you're saying.
00:07:54Is she, was she, was she just a bit of a mess?
00:07:55I, no, I, I take that back.
00:08:00I'm sorry.
00:08:00So, so please, I'm not getting clear.
00:08:02You, if you, I'd love to have this conversation, but I feel like I'm just being dragged around randomly by, because I'm listening with great attentiveness, right?
00:08:11Yes.
00:08:12And so if you said she talked about having been molested by her brothers on the first date you had, and then you said she was a bit of a mess.
00:08:21Well, I mean, I don't know.
00:08:22Aren't we all a bit of a mess?
00:08:23I mean, that's not a, it's very confusing.
00:08:26And I'm, I'm trying to figure out why this confusion is happening.
00:08:32Yeah.
00:08:32Because it's, it's, it's, it's, it's similar to the confusion that happened on the live stream where you said, you know, she was a lovely woman.
00:08:39And then it turned out she had all these major dysfunctions and so on.
00:08:43So help me understand what's going on in your head.
00:08:46Because I don't feel I can go on with the story of what happened with this woman until I know why we're bouncing around like pinballs in the various descriptors in your head.
00:08:53So what do you think is going on in your head?
00:08:56Because we've got, you know, not fun, not fun, functional, not functional, good, immoral, and now a little bit of a, a bit of a mess.
00:09:07So there's all of these categories that are floating around.
00:09:09And what do you think is going on in your mind that it's kind of impenetrable from the outside to figure out what you're thinking is?
00:09:18And it's not a criticism.
00:09:20I'm just, I'm just curious.
00:09:21No, I appreciate that.
00:09:23Um, what's going on in my head is.
00:09:29Ah, good way to put that.
00:09:30It's like, it's a transition of seeing her as what I thought was a friendly person.
00:09:40And the more I got to know her, the more dysfunctional I realized she was.
00:09:45And it wasn't like, uh, if she said one thing and then it was, it switched right over to, she was fun to be around to being dysfunctional.
00:09:57It was a slow transition throughout the week that I knew her.
00:10:01And on the Saturday is when it really started to unravel when we were actually talking in person again.
00:10:09Um, I hope that clarifies it a bit.
00:10:12Like it wasn't like that.
00:10:13Sorry, let me just interrupt.
00:10:14So I think if I understand what's happening correctly, you are reporting, um, you are reporting your timeline of getting to know her and you're jumping into different places in the timeline.
00:10:29Yes.
00:10:30So when you first met her, she seems fun on the Saturday of the hike, she seemed really dysfunctional earlier in the week.
00:10:37Maybe you thought she was a bit of a mess.
00:10:38So is it the case that, let's say you start with, sorry, if you could start touching your mic, uh, that's really kind of distracting.
00:10:49Yeah.
00:10:49Um, so you went from, let's say plus five to minus 10, uh, plus 10 to minus 10.
00:10:58And you really liked her.
00:10:59And then I think after the hike on Saturday, you saw things as, I'm sorry, I don't know what the, are you touching your mic?
00:11:08Are you moving around?
00:11:09Nope.
00:11:09I'm not moving at all.
00:11:10Okay.
00:11:11Sorry.
00:11:12Again, let's just maybe just check your connection with your mic.
00:11:15Just make sure it's in solid.
00:11:16Um, so you went from plus 10 to minus 10 over the course of the week.
00:11:20And I think what's confusing to me is you keep jumping into various times on the timeline.
00:11:25With the plus 10 to the minus 10?
00:11:30Yes.
00:11:31Okay.
00:11:31So, so that's confusing.
00:11:33Yeah.
00:11:33I think that's confusing from the, from the outside, if that makes sense.
00:11:37Yeah.
00:11:38Yeah.
00:11:38Yeah.
00:11:39I'm sorry about that.
00:11:39No, no.
00:11:40It's not to apologize.
00:11:41I was jumping from the Saturday to the previous Saturday.
00:11:42Yeah.
00:11:42It's totally, it's totally fine.
00:11:44I just, it's, it is.
00:11:45So, so when you said on the live stream, she was a lovely person.
00:11:49That's your, that was your plus 10 when you first met her, right?
00:11:54Yeah, exactly.
00:11:55Okay.
00:11:55And then thinking she's a little bit messed up was probably at some point in the text,
00:12:01in the texting over the week, right?
00:12:04Yes.
00:12:04So then when we met again in person, the following Saturday, I'm like, oh dear, this person's
00:12:08a, well, but you met up with her because she was still on the plus side, right?
00:12:13Yeah, exactly.
00:12:14Okay.
00:12:14So I didn't have the, sorry.
00:12:16Yeah.
00:12:16You had some, so maybe it was like a plus three or a plus four.
00:12:19I mean, I assume it wasn't a negative.
00:12:21Otherwise you wouldn't have met up with her for the hike, right?
00:12:24Yes.
00:12:24And how long was the hike?
00:12:27Uh, four hours.
00:12:29And then I went to her place after when the sun started to go down for about an hour.
00:12:33Oh, okay.
00:12:35So it's a long hike, man.
00:12:37Okay.
00:12:38Yeah.
00:12:39All right.
00:12:40So, um, so you met up with her.
00:12:43What was your number?
00:12:44Sort of plus to minus to plus 10, super enthusiastic minus 10.
00:12:49Um, don't want to talk to her again.
00:12:51What was your number over the course of the week when you decided to meet up with her for
00:12:56a four hour hike?
00:12:58I'd say, uh, plus seven.
00:13:00Plus seven.
00:13:01Okay.
00:13:01So there really wasn't much that was going on over the course of the week that gave you
00:13:04much alarm, right?
00:13:06Yeah.
00:13:07Just little bits here and there.
00:13:08Okay.
00:13:09Got it.
00:13:09Got it.
00:13:10So, uh, plus seven.
00:13:12And then over the course of the hike, where did your number settle?
00:13:17It went right opposite, right to like a minus seven.
00:13:22Uh, okay.
00:13:22And over what time period of the four hour hike?
00:13:27Roughly.
00:13:27I mean, I know it's, it's a complicated question, but just roughly.
00:13:31Yeah.
00:13:32It was a slow drain the whole time.
00:13:34Like every like 20 minutes, it was down a point.
00:13:37Okay.
00:13:38Got it.
00:13:38So then, um, why did you go to her place?
00:13:42Well, I wanted to keep talking with her a little bit more and we finished the hike.
00:13:47There didn't really seem to be anywhere else to go to.
00:13:50Uh,
00:13:51Yeah.
00:13:52Like her place.
00:13:52So, um, what were you at at the, what was your number at the end of the hike?
00:13:57At the end of the hike, I would say probably a minus five.
00:14:02A minus five.
00:14:03Okay.
00:14:04So again, just, just out of curiosity, why did you want to continue talking to her?
00:14:09If you'd gone from a plus seven to a minus five, which is a spread of 12 over the course
00:14:15of the hike, why did you want to, uh, keep, and you know, I'm not, again, it's no criticism.
00:14:19I'm just curious.
00:14:20Why would you want to keep talking to her?
00:14:23Well, you're hoping to recover the number.
00:14:26Yeah, exactly.
00:14:28I was hoping to take that minus five and bring it back into the positive.
00:14:31Okay.
00:14:33And what was the mechanism by which you thought you might be able to do that?
00:14:39Uh, to try and imitate, uh, call and show like you do and try to help her puzzle things
00:14:46out.
00:14:46And which I knew at the time was pretty much slim to none chance, but I was already there.
00:14:52It took me an hour and a bit drive to go to her place to begin with.
00:14:57So I figured, you know, I'm already here.
00:14:59I might as well at least give it a try.
00:15:00And yeah, it, I, I suspected it wasn't going to work, but I figured I'd try anyway.
00:15:08Okay.
00:15:09So the goal was to give her huge injections of psychic healing over the course of spending
00:15:15some time at her house after the hike.
00:15:16Yes.
00:15:19Okay.
00:15:20Um, tell me your thinking about that.
00:15:25Well, I've spent so much time either in therapy, listening to your shows, uh, reading books on
00:15:32psychology, self-help, all that stuff.
00:15:36I thought I may have a chance with it.
00:15:38And if not, I'll just fill it up.
00:15:41I thought.
00:15:41Uh, I'm sorry, your, your microphone is making some very loud and difficult noises.
00:15:51Okay.
00:15:51So when you went to her house, was that with the intention of trying to give her some
00:15:58self-knowledge and, and rescue her from the dysfunction?
00:16:04Yes.
00:16:05Um, was that with the goal of continuing to date her or were you, was it sort of like a
00:16:10charity thing, I'm going to throw some self-knowledge your way and, and, and bail?
00:16:17Yeah, it was the charity thing.
00:16:19Cause like, even if she did, you know, take it in and start working on herself, like it
00:16:27seemed highly unlikely we would even be a match anyway.
00:16:30Cause that would take probably a couple of years and then, you know, she'd still need
00:16:35a, get a better living condition, get a job and yeah, it was a charity thing cause it
00:16:42wasn't going to work.
00:16:43You know, there was no way.
00:16:47Okay.
00:16:48I'm sorry.
00:16:48So her living situation was bad.
00:16:51Yeah.
00:16:52And she didn't have a job.
00:16:54No, she didn't.
00:16:56Do you know what she lived on?
00:16:57What did she live on?
00:16:59I, I think it's just the charity of her family.
00:17:02I, I never asked, she never said, I just assumed that she's just living for free with
00:17:06either her parents or her brothers.
00:17:09Okay.
00:17:09She goes between them all.
00:17:11Oh, so she just kind of bungees between various family members.
00:17:15Yeah.
00:17:17Okay.
00:17:18And when, over the course of the week, did you find out that she was unemployed and I
00:17:24mean, relatively homeless?
00:17:30Um...
00:17:32I think it was the Thursday when I gave her a call.
00:17:38I mean, I, I suspected it because, you know, she was saying we were texting throughout the
00:17:43week and she would say at like, at noon that she was going out, hanging out with a friend.
00:17:50I'm like, shouldn't you be working?
00:17:53Right, right.
00:17:54And like, what are you doing buying plants at one o'clock in the afternoon?
00:17:59Well, and with what money?
00:18:02Yeah, exactly.
00:18:03I mean, it could also be that, I'm not saying it's true, but it could be the case that her
00:18:08boyfriends were giving her money too.
00:18:10Yeah.
00:18:11I think that's quite likely.
00:18:13Okay.
00:18:16Which was also very interesting.
00:18:17It was on the Saturday.
00:18:20She was really upset about some of her exes referring to her as just a hole or a prostitute.
00:18:26Yeah, that's kind of what she was in a way.
00:18:29I'm sorry, what?
00:18:30Yeah, she had some exes or friends with benefits that would berate her, tell her to kill herself
00:18:36and, you know, call her nothing but a hole and like, oh dear.
00:18:43Which is another thing.
00:18:44I thought you learned this on the hike?
00:18:46Towards the end of the hike.
00:18:49But yeah.
00:18:52And she went into more detail when we were at her place.
00:18:56Okay.
00:18:56So this is the woman you introduced on the live stream as a lovely person?
00:19:05Yes.
00:19:08Okay.
00:19:09So, oh, why?
00:19:11Go ahead.
00:19:13Well, to kind of circle back to our early part of the conversation, like when I met her, I
00:19:19thought she was lovely.
00:19:20The more I got to know her, the more I realized how dysfunctional she was.
00:19:24Um, that's why I went about that in the live stream.
00:19:28That was my thought process behind it.
00:19:30Well, no, but you introduced her as a lovely person.
00:19:35Yeah.
00:19:35Right.
00:19:36Even after I knew her.
00:19:37Right.
00:19:37So help me understand that there's a reason for that because it's very confusing to others.
00:19:45And how can a lovely person have all of these negative characteristics, right?
00:19:50Yeah, that's interesting because like, that was my thought process behind it during the
00:19:57live stream.
00:19:58Sorry.
00:19:58What was your thought process behind it?
00:19:59I don't know what you're talking about.
00:20:03That when I first met her, I thought she was lovely.
00:20:05The more I got to know her, the more I realized how dysfunctional she was.
00:20:09Okay.
00:20:09And she's dating some pretty negative and dangerous men, right?
00:20:12If they're referring to her as a prostitute and a whole and right.
00:20:15That's really, that's dangerous and destructive, right?
00:20:19Yeah.
00:20:19It's a bit of an understatement, but yeah, for sure.
00:20:22So why would you introduce her as a lovely person?
00:20:28And again, this is not some big criticism, but I'm really curious.
00:20:33What's the purpose behind that?
00:20:36Because you knew better by then, right?
00:20:39Yeah.
00:20:40Okay.
00:20:40So that's the, cause it, it, and you're doing that in a community of people who are,
00:20:44you know, trying to scan for good and bad actors and, and, and all of that.
00:20:50And so how can a lovely person have all of these dysfunctions?
00:20:54So it is misleading to the community as a whole.
00:20:58And again, I'm not saying you had any nefarious intent, but I'm just, I'm curious why you would
00:21:05put that on her, like that nomenclature.
00:21:08Why would you describe her that way?
00:21:15Well, you had said during that live stream that it may have been like an unconscious cry
00:21:22for help.
00:21:23And I think that may have been the case because I haven't, like really trying to think about
00:21:30my intentions at the time.
00:21:32It could have been me trying to camouflage this woman and pass her off as a good person
00:21:37when she wasn't.
00:21:39Yeah.
00:21:39I think, I think it probably has something to do with trying to explain or reason to yourself
00:21:46why, after you had all of these red flags over the course of the week in the texting
00:21:51and the phone calls, why you went on a four hour hike with her.
00:21:53Yeah.
00:21:57So why did you go?
00:21:59I mean, so you, you had red flags over the course of the week, right?
00:22:05Yes.
00:22:08And you avoided, like when she said she's going to go play by plants in the middle of the day,
00:22:16you avoided asking what she did for a living, right?
00:22:21Yeah.
00:22:22At least till later on in the week.
00:22:23But yeah, at the time I avoided it.
00:22:26Okay.
00:22:26And so later on in the week, you have, you asked her what she did for a living and when
00:22:29she said, I'm unemployed.
00:22:32Yes.
00:22:32Well, yes, but, uh, she said she was taking time off work to, uh, for herself, like fix
00:22:39yourself kind of thing.
00:22:41Okay.
00:22:41And you don't have to tell me what she did, but did you ask her what she did for a living?
00:22:47I, she did a bunch of mixed jobs here and there.
00:22:51Waitress, uh, worked at a call center.
00:22:53Um, she worked briefly for one of her exes, the one that was 25 years older than her.
00:23:00Yeah.
00:23:00Just mixed jobs here and there.
00:23:02Nothing dedicated.
00:23:04Which, you know, by your late thirties is kind of a mess, right?
00:23:08Yeah.
00:23:10So why did you go on the hike?
00:23:11I, well, in addition to what I said earlier about maybe there was a chance, uh, this was
00:23:21also the first date I've been on in like 10 years.
00:23:24So there's a certain vanity aspect to it.
00:23:28Because she was pretty charming.
00:23:30Yeah.
00:23:31Well, yeah.
00:23:33And, you know, the fact that I went on a date, it, it felt good.
00:23:37Um, my therapist was happy for me, despite the fact that her and I both knew my therapist,
00:23:42that is, that it wasn't going to work out.
00:23:44And it could just be seen as like training for when a decent woman comes along.
00:23:52And how did you leave things after the hour at her place?
00:23:57Uh, I just kind of like, Hey, I got to go and gave her a hug, wished her luck and just
00:24:06left.
00:24:07And you haven't been in contact since.
00:24:09Is that right?
00:24:09Um, well, the Sunday after was, uh, you know, star Wars day.
00:24:14And so I sent her, you know, may the fourth be with you.
00:24:17She sent me a nice little gift after, and that was the last we spoke.
00:24:21Okay.
00:24:23We did have plans to go to a different dance tonight, but yeah, that's not going to happen.
00:24:27I'm, I'm not interested.
00:24:29You have been in contact with this woman.
00:24:31No.
00:24:31Okay.
00:24:32Yeah.
00:24:34All right.
00:24:35So by the time, uh, I'm sorry, that was a Saturday you texted on the Sunday.
00:24:43And when was, when did you mention all of this on the live stream?
00:24:48Uh, that was the following Sunday after our hike.
00:24:52Okay.
00:24:53Got it.
00:24:53Got it.
00:24:54Okay.
00:24:55So the purpose of saying she was a lovely person, uh, as opposed to she, I thought she
00:25:07was a lovely person.
00:25:07Turns out there was a lot of dysfunction and so on.
00:25:10Um, the purpose of saying she was a lovely person is, was it too, because, you know,
00:25:24in terms of self-knowledge and, uh, it was, it was a falsehood, right?
00:25:29You knew much better by then.
00:25:31So why would you put a falsehood forward in a community dedicated to honesty?
00:25:37And again, I know this sounds like some finger wagging, nagging thing.
00:25:40I don't mean it that way, but why would you put forward a very confusing falsehood in a
00:25:48community really focused on a self-knowledge and honesty?
00:25:52Uh, I think one of my, uh, hopes from that was to get a bit of praise.
00:26:02The fact that I actually went on a date, um, cause that's what I did to extent with my
00:26:09therapist and some of my friends.
00:26:11Um, yeah.
00:26:17Oh, your therapist and your friends praised you for going on a date.
00:26:20Yes.
00:26:21But I also did give the caveat that she was not a good woman and it wasn't going to work
00:26:26out between us.
00:26:29Yes.
00:26:30But that was a little further down in the text, if I remember rightly.
00:26:34Like, yeah, yeah, if I recall correctly, when I originally sent you the message on a live
00:26:43stream, I did it in two paragraphs because I can just the character limit kind of thing.
00:26:49And yeah, it was the second paragraph that I went into like, yeah, she's really not a
00:26:54good person.
00:26:55Lots of dysfunctions.
00:26:56What would you do in this situation?
00:26:58Right.
00:26:58So you introduced her as a lovely person and then you said she's not a good person.
00:27:02Yeah.
00:27:04Now you were expecting to get praise, but you didn't, right?
00:27:10No.
00:27:11I mean, not that you got any kind of condemnation or anything like that, but you didn't get praise.
00:27:17So then my question is, why did you think that misleading the community would get you praise?
00:27:28Probably because I, I do that with myself so often.
00:27:41What do you mean?
00:27:43That, that I might say to myself that doing a certain, I don't know, activity or joining
00:27:54certain groups would be good for me.
00:27:59And.
00:28:03No, that's not the same category though.
00:28:05So saying, I don't know, I go and join a gardening group or a pottery group or a pickleball group
00:28:09might be good for you.
00:28:10That's not a false.
00:28:11I mean, it could be that case, right?
00:28:14Yeah.
00:28:14But introducing a highly dysfunctional and as you say, immoral woman as a lovely person,
00:28:19that's not the same category, right?
00:28:22Yeah.
00:28:23Yeah.
00:28:23You're right.
00:28:23I mean, the answer is kind of like on the tip of my tongue somewhere.
00:28:27It's a little buried, actually not quite on the tip of my tongue, but it's something
00:28:31along the lines of, well, I lie and falsify to myself and it works.
00:28:37So it'll probably work in the community too.
00:28:40Okay.
00:28:40So, but what do you lie and falsify about to yourself?
00:28:43I mean, joining a group that might be good for you is not that, right?
00:28:48Unless it's some kind of criminal gang, which I know it's not right.
00:28:52So, so what do you do with yourself that involves this kind of falsification?
00:29:00Well, I can't think of an example at the moment.
00:29:05There's probably one in there somewhere or probably a couple of them.
00:29:08So you, you have to have a dedication to truth.
00:29:13And that's very lax sometimes, I think, with you.
00:29:17And again, it's not a criticism, but I think you do things for the sake of impression or,
00:29:22oh, you know, she was lovely, like I'm being a nice guy or, you know, but, but that's not
00:29:26having the same real dedication to just being honest.
00:29:30And again, this is on a live stream.
00:29:32I'm not trying to say this is some foundational issue in your life.
00:29:35I don't know.
00:29:36But in terms of a commitment to just telling the truth, gritting your teeth and being honest,
00:29:41I think that's not as strong a muscle as it could be.
00:29:46You know, I mean, this is true for all of us, so I'm not trying to single you out here.
00:29:50But I think you just kind of typed unconsciously, oh, like she was a lovely person, like you're
00:29:55being positive and, and trying to put your best foot forward and so on.
00:29:58But that's not a really rigorous dedication to honesty.
00:30:02Right.
00:30:03And there are two things I want to add on to that.
00:30:06Not only my dedication to truth and honesty, but my dedication to other things as a whole.
00:30:13Like I've been working out pretty solidly for maybe about two years now.
00:30:18But I also know I, I hold back.
00:30:23Like there'd be times where I don't do enough of a workout, but I'll pat myself on the back.
00:30:27Like, oh, I did a workout.
00:30:29Right.
00:30:30Or I'll do like a two paragraph journal entry when I know I have a lot more to write about.
00:30:35And I'll be like, okay, well, I did a good job.
00:30:37I did the journal entry.
00:30:39So, which is, yeah, like it's the same pattern there.
00:30:44Like I, I'm not as dedicated to truth, but I, I am to a minor degree and with like a lot
00:30:50of the other self-knowledge and improvement stuff, like I one foot in one foot out.
00:30:55And it's also a pattern I've seen with my parents too, although I'm a lot better at it
00:31:01because they'll, my parents would have like, like my father would have a project that he
00:31:07wants to do and he'll do it for like a day or two and he'll sit on it for like a year.
00:31:13Um, I'm a lot better on that.
00:31:15Like I have a dedication to working out.
00:31:17And like I said, I do it, but it's not as much as I should.
00:31:22Uh, does this make sense to you, Steph?
00:31:24Well, I mean, I'm not sure how much you should, but if you pat yourself on the back for things
00:31:29that you haven't achieved, like a thorough journal entry or a good workout or something like
00:31:34that, then the question is why you say, Oh, my, my father had these projects, but why,
00:31:43why would you not say, yeah, I could do a better journal entry, but I'm not going to at the
00:31:48moment.
00:31:50Right.
00:31:51Well, I think it's, uh, what you said about like two or three minutes ago that it's the
00:31:55appearance.
00:31:57Uh, this is in your own mind.
00:31:58What, what appearance is there?
00:32:00Yeah.
00:32:00I mean, you do in a journal entry.
00:32:01I mean, it's not like other people read it or you send it in for review, I assume.
00:32:05Yeah.
00:32:06So that's not an appearance thing.
00:32:07I, when it comes to, when it comes to these things, I do tend to brag about it.
00:32:13Like my workouts or self-knowledge and journal entry by reading, et cetera, et cetera.
00:32:19You brag about it to who?
00:32:20Oh yeah.
00:32:21Uh, you know, it could be friends, could be potential dates.
00:32:24Like, Oh yeah.
00:32:25I like to read in journal and exercise.
00:32:28Okay.
00:32:29But that's true, right?
00:32:30Like, yeah.
00:32:32Okay.
00:32:32So yeah, it is.
00:32:33But like, I also know that I'm going easy on myself when it comes to these things.
00:32:41Okay.
00:32:41So why are you going easy on yourself?
00:32:46Um, which is just a kind of dishonesty, right?
00:32:50Yeah, it is.
00:32:54And well, my initial thoughts is, it's, it's kind of hard to do.
00:33:00I, I know there's probably more than that, but.
00:33:04Well, yeah, the issue, the issue isn't that you do a brief journal entry.
00:33:11Right.
00:33:11That's not the issue.
00:33:13The issue isn't that you do a light workout or whatever.
00:33:16Right.
00:33:16What's the issue?
00:33:19I, I don't have a dedication to truth and honesty.
00:33:21Well, that you gaslight yourself about what you've done.
00:33:25Right.
00:33:26Right.
00:33:28Right.
00:33:29Like I, I used to sometimes write for three or four hours or three hours.
00:33:34And, you know, yesterday I wrote for like a little over an hour.
00:33:37I wrote like a 1200 words.
00:33:39Right.
00:33:40Now that's not a big writing day.
00:33:44Right.
00:33:45Yeah.
00:33:46But I'm not going to sit there and say, wow, I wrote a lot today.
00:33:48I'm like, yeah, I, I kind of did what I did.
00:33:51Um, I finished the chapter.
00:33:53I didn't feel like writing anymore.
00:33:55Um, and so I stopped.
00:33:56Right.
00:33:58I don't even have a judgment as to whether that was right or wrong or good or bad, but
00:34:01that is what happened.
00:34:02Right.
00:34:03Yeah.
00:34:03Okay.
00:34:05So, so why falsify things to yourself?
00:34:19I would say it's a fear of being attacked or fear of being judged for not doing enough
00:34:26or not being good enough.
00:34:28Okay.
00:34:28So why not confront that?
00:34:31Because you're trying to help this woman, right?
00:34:34Yeah.
00:34:35But you kind of have to have a dedication to truth within yourself before you help others.
00:34:39Right.
00:34:40Yeah.
00:34:41So why not just say, sorry, go ahead.
00:34:44Well, it's kind of like you said on the live stream position, heal by self.
00:34:49Right.
00:34:49So why not just confront that self-attack for not doing things enough?
00:34:55Do you feel like you can't win against that or, or it's too embedded or you're just going
00:35:03to feel bad and lose out or what?
00:35:04I think it's a mix of that and also that the inner critic might be right and I don't want
00:35:12to deal with that.
00:35:13Okay.
00:35:13So let's say the inner critic is right and you do two paragraphs when you have a lot of
00:35:18stuff to journal about and you say, well, that was great journal entry and your inner
00:35:22critic says, nah, it really wasn't.
00:35:23Okay.
00:35:24So let's say the inner critic is right.
00:35:27So then what?
00:35:31Well, then I'm just weak and I can't dedicate myself to what I want to do.
00:35:35So, um, you know, I'm a failure, I've always been a failure and that's what the inner critic
00:35:42would, would say.
00:35:43But the inner critic really kind of, hang on, but the inner critic must be kind of frustrated
00:35:47that you keep lying to the inner critic.
00:35:51I mean, if someone kept lying to you, you'd get kind of frustrated too, right?
00:35:56The inner critic's lying.
00:35:58Well, yeah, because the inner critic is saying that was not a good workout, but the inner critic
00:36:02is saying that was not a comprehensive journal entry, right?
00:36:06Yeah.
00:36:06And you keep saying, nah, it was great workout or no, it was a really good journal entry
00:36:09or whatever, right?
00:36:14So you're kind of provoking the inner critic and, and fueling the inner critic in the same
00:36:19way that you were kind of provoking the community and fueling criticism of yourself by referring
00:36:23to this messed up woman as a lovely person.
00:36:26Yeah, that's a good point.
00:36:27And it really reminds me of, uh, the Simon and the boxer, um, analogy you use because I'm
00:36:34used to being bullied and harassed, so I'm kind of even just doing that within my own
00:36:37fucking head.
00:36:38Right.
00:36:39Right.
00:36:40And so, listen, the inner critic could be right.
00:36:44Yeah.
00:36:49Yeah.
00:36:49And if you, if you keep saying to the inner critic, shut up, you're wrong.
00:36:54Well, the inner critic is trying to help you by giving you an accurate assessment of your
00:37:00life, right?
00:37:02Yeah.
00:37:04You know, like while I was dealing with this, this ear thing, I didn't do great shows.
00:37:09My inner critic was saying, these are not great shows.
00:37:12They're not terrible, but they're not great.
00:37:15And I'm like, yep, I can't argue with that.
00:37:18Right.
00:37:20Yeah.
00:37:21And I could see from the donations that people weren't massively inspired.
00:37:24I'm still glad I continued to do them, but you know, they're getting better now.
00:37:30Right.
00:37:31So my inner critic was like, these aren't great shows.
00:37:34This is not the kind of quality that you are capable of producing when you are in a
00:37:42great state of mind.
00:37:43Right.
00:37:44Yeah.
00:37:44Okay.
00:37:45So if I were to be like, no, no, no, these are great shows.
00:37:48Right.
00:37:49My inner critic would get kind of annoyed.
00:37:51Right.
00:37:54Yeah.
00:37:55Because I would be not taking the feedback.
00:37:57You know, because the inner critic, you can say it's inner critic, but if you listen to
00:38:02it, generally it turns into an inner coach.
00:38:06And the coach that's trying to have you be skilled and be good at something.
00:38:13To be skilled and to be good at something, you have to be able to take criticism.
00:38:16Right.
00:38:18Yeah.
00:38:18You know, if you're singing off key, your singing teacher should say, uh, that's a bit
00:38:22pitchy and let's work it again and try and figure out what's going on with your breath
00:38:26control or whatever it is.
00:38:27Right.
00:38:28If you're trying to play guitar and you playing the wrong notes, then your guitar teacher should
00:38:31say, uh, that's not correct.
00:38:33Let's go check your positioning of your hands.
00:38:35Right.
00:38:36So, so excellence requires coaching and, and feedback, right?
00:38:39Yeah, absolutely.
00:38:43And so you are teaching, you are treating your inner critic as if your inner critic or coach
00:38:49is an abuser.
00:38:54Yeah.
00:38:56Which is not.
00:38:57Well, if you're calling your inner critic an abuser and a mean guy, then your inner critic
00:39:02is going to be annoyed.
00:39:02Right.
00:39:04Right.
00:39:04In the same way that if you were trying to teach your kid how to jump rope or something
00:39:10and they just get yelling at you that you were just being mean and terrible, you'd get
00:39:14kind of annoyed.
00:39:15Right.
00:39:16Like, help.
00:39:19Yeah.
00:39:19And on a whole nother level too, um, with the, the work I do with my therapist, which is
00:39:26a branch of internal family systems therapy.
00:39:28Like I could actually like totally visualize and see my inner critic, like he's an actual
00:39:35person and he always takes a shape or typically takes the shape of my father.
00:39:41So when I see my inner critic berating me, it's pretty much the exact same situation I
00:39:48had with my actual father.
00:39:50And yeah, it has been taken a long time to break out of that.
00:39:54And I think it was around a week or two ago.
00:39:57Now you had that live stream where, you know, you're saying to make friends with your inner
00:40:04parents.
00:40:05Like I'm kind of like putting those two together right now, you know, having a relationship
00:40:10with my inner parents and inner critic.
00:40:12Your inner critic needs to get a seat at the table.
00:40:15He's got important stuff to tell you.
00:40:18Right.
00:40:20Right.
00:40:21And so for me, when I said, um, over the last.
00:40:24You know, month or two, sorry, these shows have not been great.
00:40:29I think that validates that people are like, yeah, you know, the good shows, but not great
00:40:33or decent shows, but not great.
00:40:35So when I say, yeah, decent shows, but not great, I'm showing a comfort with my inner
00:40:38critic and knowing that there needs to be an improvement.
00:40:44Yeah.
00:40:45So.
00:40:49My inner critic is saying these shows are decent, but not great.
00:40:53Okay.
00:40:53But not great.
00:40:54I'm like, yeah, I can't argue with that.
00:40:56I think, I think you're right.
00:40:58And that gives me a gap to close.
00:41:00Right.
00:41:01But then when I talk about that on the show, I think I can, I can say that people are like,
00:41:07okay, so Steph can listen to his inner critic and agree and, and all of that.
00:41:11Right.
00:41:12Because my inner critic is not abusive.
00:41:15It's, uh, it's trying to give me realistic feedback to, to, to, to help me accurately
00:41:22assess the quality of what it is that I'm doing.
00:41:25If that makes sense.
00:41:26Yeah, it does.
00:41:27No, I, I'm also curious, Steph, does.
00:41:31Now you would say you'd have a good relationship with your inner critic, correct?
00:41:36Um, yeah, I think so.
00:41:38Now, has there been a time when you did not have a good relationship with it?
00:41:43Oh, absolutely.
00:41:44Yeah, for sure.
00:41:44Yeah.
00:41:45I mean, when I was younger, I'd fight tooth and nail against my inner critic.
00:41:49Gotcha.
00:41:49And how would that, how would that play out?
00:41:53Like, would it be like your inner critic is like full on abusing you?
00:41:57Like you're a failure.
00:41:58You're never going to amount to anything like full on, like verbally abusive bullying kind
00:42:02of thing, um, no, it didn't quite work that way.
00:42:05It was just that feeling that, um, I was sort of foundationally wrong in some way and, and
00:42:14in, in a way that was just different from others.
00:42:17And I mean, my inner critic kind of had a point because my thinking is very different
00:42:24from society as a whole.
00:42:27And, you know, I'm like the bald guy from the future almost, right?
00:42:32So when my inner critic was like, you are wrong, foundationally, and my inner critic
00:42:39was telling me that relative to social norms, I was very much in opposition or in deviation
00:42:47from, and my inner critic was trying to have me close the gap between my thinking and society
00:42:56as a whole, uh, for reasons of obvious reproductive fitness and blah, blah, blah.
00:43:00Right.
00:43:01So, uh, listening to that and saying, you know what?
00:43:08You're right.
00:43:09You're right.
00:43:10My thinking is enormously different from society as a whole.
00:43:14Now, once my inner critic felt listened to, then the escalation or the aggression diminished
00:43:21in the same way that, you know, I mean, good customer services, you know, if somebody's mad
00:43:25at you, uh, listen, right, uh, listen and, and, and agree with their experience, if not
00:43:35necessarily their conclusions.
00:43:39Okay.
00:43:39Cause like the reason why I'm asking this is because my inner critic at times, he can be
00:43:46enormously helpful, whether it be in the shape of my father or other people, but there are
00:43:54times when it's like, no, no, your inner critic is not in the shape of your father.
00:43:57Your inner critic is in reaction to your father, right?
00:44:01That's like saying that the antibodies are the illness.
00:44:06Your inner, your inner, your inner father, so to speak, is there to protect you from your
00:44:09father.
00:44:10He's not your father.
00:44:11Your father would attack you.
00:44:12And then you internalize that attack to try and prevent the outer attack.
00:44:16Right.
00:44:17So saying that the antibodies are the same as the illness is incorrect.
00:44:21The antibodies are in response to the illness and they're to protect you from the illness.
00:44:27Okay.
00:44:28Right.
00:44:28So, so assessing your inner father as the same as your father is to create a fractious and
00:44:34hostile relationship to something that is there to protect you.
00:44:37Okay.
00:44:41Cause like, I can understand that, but it doesn't seem to help.
00:44:46If that makes sense.
00:44:47Cause my inner father will be really no different than my actual father at times.
00:44:53It's like, how is this helping me exactly?
00:44:56Okay.
00:44:56Hang on.
00:44:58Hang on.
00:44:58What is the purpose of your inner father?
00:45:00Why does he exist in your mind?
00:45:02Uh, the purpose of the inner father is to embody the rules and persona of my actual father.
00:45:12So when I do something that I know my father wouldn't like, the inner father would attack
00:45:17me for it.
00:45:18So I don't do it.
00:45:19So my actual father won't punish me.
00:45:22Right.
00:45:23Well, is it an attack if it is trying to keep you safe?
00:45:28You say your inner father would attack you.
00:45:32No, I guess it wouldn't be an attack.
00:45:34Yeah.
00:45:34Sorry?
00:45:35It feels like an attack, but I guess it wouldn't be.
00:45:37Right.
00:45:37Well, it wouldn't if it's keeping you safe.
00:45:41Right.
00:45:42So, so if you think like, let's say you're in some rural cabin, right?
00:45:46Middle of the woods.
00:45:48And you see some bear prints in the, in the ground outside and you feel nervous about going
00:45:56out.
00:45:56Right.
00:45:56Right.
00:45:58Yeah.
00:45:59Is that nervousness, which is a negative experience, is that harming you?
00:46:04No, quite the opposite.
00:46:05It's trying to make sure you don't get your scalp ripped off by some grizzly, right?
00:46:10Yeah.
00:46:11So you are experiencing something negative in order to avoid something physically dangerous.
00:46:23Right.
00:46:23I mean, if you're, if you're at the beach and you see a bunch of fins in the water, like
00:46:26big fins, maybe it's dolphins, maybe it's sharks.
00:46:31Right.
00:46:31But you're probably not going to go into water and find out.
00:46:33Right.
00:46:35Yeah.
00:46:38So you say, well, my uneasiness about the bear or my uneasiness about the sharks is attacking
00:46:44me.
00:46:44It's like, no, it's like, no, it's not attacking you.
00:46:50It's evoking a negative emotion.
00:46:53To keep you alive.
00:46:59Yeah.
00:47:00That makes sense.
00:47:01It's my problem seems to be arising is treating my continuing to treat my inner father like
00:47:07my actual father.
00:47:08Right.
00:47:11Which is saying my fear of the bear, my fear of the bear is the bear.
00:47:15It's like, no, they're opposites.
00:47:18Your fear of the bear is to keep the bear from killing you.
00:47:21Your fear of the sharks is to keep the sharks from killing you.
00:47:25Fear of the sharks are not the sharks.
00:47:28Fear of the bear is not the bear.
00:47:30They're opposites.
00:47:31The bear is dangerous.
00:47:33Your fear of the bear is trying to keep you safe.
00:47:43Gotcha.
00:47:44So it's like the, the kid who wants to run all over the parking lot and the parent picks
00:47:51him up and says no.
00:47:52And the kid is like, you're such a bully.
00:47:55You're tyrant.
00:47:56It's like, no, you're going to run out and get hit by a car.
00:48:03You know, put a helmet on your kids when they go biking, especially when they're learning,
00:48:08right?
00:48:09Ah, yes.
00:48:10You're such a bully controlling me.
00:48:12Like, no, I'm trying to keep your brains inside your head.
00:48:20Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
00:48:21So when you would do something that might provoke your actual father, your inner father would
00:48:27tell you not to, but then you would fight with it and hate it.
00:48:33Yeah.
00:48:37So if, if, if you're in the cabin and there's bear prints, like big Jurassic Park bear prints
00:48:44all outside the cabin and you feel this unease and then you say to your unease, don't you
00:48:49tell me what to do?
00:48:51I paid good money for this cabin.
00:48:52I'm going outside.
00:48:53What is your unease going to do?
00:48:55It's going to escalate.
00:48:57That's right.
00:48:57And then you're going to feel that that escalation is bullying yourself and screw that.
00:49:05I'm going outside.
00:49:06Right.
00:49:08Oh, to add to this analogy, like I'm in the cabin, there's bear prints outside.
00:49:15I have no food in the house.
00:49:16I need to go out and get food.
00:49:19So it's like a damn if I do, damn if I don't, I'm going to starve if I stay here.
00:49:24Okay.
00:49:24What's the starvation in this analogy?
00:49:28Uh, the starvation is going out and improving my life, like say exercising more, reading
00:49:37more, uh, going out, having conversations with people, like building connections.
00:49:43Like my inner critic would attack me for trying to do that.
00:49:47And, but I kind of want to need to do that.
00:49:52Does that make sense?
00:49:54Okay.
00:49:54So your inner critic attacks you for self-improvement.
00:49:59Yes.
00:50:00Okay.
00:50:00What's your relationship with your father at the moment?
00:50:04It's not existing.
00:50:05He's not part of my life.
00:50:07Okay.
00:50:08So the bear footprints are there, which is the memory, but the bear is gone, right?
00:50:13Yeah.
00:50:13So the question is, why has your inner father not registered that your father is not a factor
00:50:20in your life?
00:50:21And sorry, how long has it been since you've had a relationship with your father?
00:50:27I'm about four months, probably a little bit more, maybe like five now.
00:50:32Okay.
00:50:32So that's not a long time, right?
00:50:35Yeah.
00:50:35It's recent.
00:50:36And you don't have to tell me how old you are.
00:50:3930s, 40s, 20s.
00:50:41I'm 29.
00:50:4129.
00:50:42Okay.
00:50:43Almost 30.
00:50:43Okay.
00:50:44So for almost three decades, your father has been a constant and dangerous factor in
00:50:48your life.
00:50:49Is that a fair statement?
00:50:50Yes.
00:50:51Okay.
00:50:56So to take the analogy, if we say that you have a cabin, I don't know, let's see here.
00:51:04Uh, it's, it's, it's in the, it's in the snow, right?
00:51:07And, and there are polar bear prints.
00:51:10And now it's, you know, winter might be coming to an end, but the polar bear might still be
00:51:15there.
00:51:15Now in summer, the polar bear is not going to be there, right?
00:51:18Cause it's too hot.
00:51:18Right.
00:51:19Yeah.
00:51:20So it's going to take a while for your inner father to register that you're out of father
00:51:30is no longer a vivid, immediate factor, right?
00:51:36Yeah.
00:51:37Now there's a way to accelerate that process though.
00:51:42Well, you got my attention.
00:51:43So the way to accelerate that process is stop fighting your inner critic.
00:51:51Stop lying to your inner critic and refusing to take feedback.
00:52:02Gotcha.
00:52:02That's a good point.
00:52:03If you stop fighting your inner critic, and that doesn't mean that your inner critic is
00:52:07now the boss of you and everything your inner critic says is perfectly valid, but the way
00:52:12to reduce the escalation or aggression from your inner critic is to listen and say, yeah,
00:52:20you know what?
00:52:20Make the case.
00:52:22Make the case.
00:52:24Yeah.
00:52:25Like you were saying earlier, he has a seat at the table.
00:52:27He has a seat at the table.
00:52:28He's not the boss.
00:52:29He's not a slave.
00:52:31He's not an enemy because he's in your head and nothing that's in your head is there to
00:52:38harm you.
00:52:39At least, you know, I mean, maybe some extremity or whatever, but in general, as a whole, I mean,
00:52:47my approach is, yeah, you know, make the case, right?
00:52:49So when I was like, yeah, you know, maybe I'm not doing great shows right now, I've been
00:52:53like, okay, but let's hear the case.
00:52:59You know, maybe I'm showing some resilience in the face of, you know, a difficult situation,
00:53:04you know, pushing forward, doing shows anyway, and accepting that they're not ideal.
00:53:08Maybe that's showing some kind of, I don't know, courage or resolution or something like
00:53:11that.
00:53:11Who knows, right?
00:53:12But, but it's like, yeah, it's, it's, it's a fact that my shows are not as good.
00:53:16I mean, I've, I've lacked vocal power for a while for reasons of like my ear buzzes when
00:53:25I, when I talk.
00:53:25So, you know, but sit down and do the shows anyway, even though it can be tough, right?
00:53:33So I'm like, my inner critic says these aren't great shows.
00:53:39I'm like, yes, in terms of content, maybe in terms of form, I'm showing some resolution
00:53:42and dedication and so on, but I'm happy to hear the case, right?
00:53:50Yeah.
00:53:50So with regards to, um, your, your inner critic, you acted, I think, in defiance of your inner
00:54:03critic by pursuing a relationship or a potential relationship with the woman you met at the
00:54:09dance and then introducing her as a lovely person.
00:54:12I think your inner critic was probably trying to warn you.
00:54:18Yeah.
00:54:19And he was spot on.
00:54:20Right.
00:54:21So the fact that you, uh, you put yourself in a risky situation, I mean, let's be perfectly
00:54:27frank, right?
00:54:28Yeah.
00:54:29In, in that, listen, she could have attached to you.
00:54:33She could have become a stalker.
00:54:34She could have, um, uh, you know, some, something weird could have happened when you were at her
00:54:39place and she didn't want you to leave or, you know, I don't know, but you know, this
00:54:44is not a very robust and mentally healthy woman.
00:54:47It sounds like so.
00:54:48Yeah.
00:54:50Your inner critic was probably trying to warn you and you were like, well, you're a bully
00:54:57and I don't listen to you and I'll just falsify things.
00:55:04Yeah.
00:55:04Uh, yeah.
00:55:05Essentially just treating him like he's my actual father.
00:55:08Right.
00:55:11Right.
00:55:11But if you have a bacteria or viruses and then you treat your antibodies as if they are
00:55:19the illness, you can't ever really be healthy because the antibodies are there to protect
00:55:24you from the illness and your inner father is there to protect you from the dangers of
00:55:27your outer father.
00:55:28And since you couldn't negotiate with your outer father, you just had to kind of be pushed around
00:55:39by your inner father.
00:55:40But if you actually negotiate and listen to your inner father, I think that's the best
00:55:44signal to your inner father that the outer father is not a direct factor anymore.
00:55:49Right.
00:55:52That's a very good point.
00:55:55Yeah.
00:55:55It's like the change of the seasons, uh, use the cabin analogy.
00:56:00Yeah.
00:56:00The polar bear is gone, man.
00:56:02Trust me.
00:56:04And our inner selves, they're not lost to time.
00:56:08They're not lost to empiricism.
00:56:10Empiricism.
00:56:12Right.
00:56:12So, so if it's summer, right.
00:56:15And you're still in the cabin and then you, you read, uh, there's a book on bears in the
00:56:20cabin and you open it up and you say, uh, they say the polar bears are never there in
00:56:23the summer.
00:56:23Okay.
00:56:24It's summer.
00:56:24So the polar bear is gone.
00:56:25Then your fight or flight mechanism should listen and, and relax about that.
00:56:31Yeah.
00:56:33That may still be a little uneasy, but I'm sorry, go ahead.
00:56:36Well, it may still be a little uneasy because it's just so used to having that bear around,
00:56:42but like there's reasons for it to relax.
00:56:46Well, no, it won't be uneasy because there can't be a bear.
00:56:51Now, maybe there's another kind of bear.
00:56:53I don't know.
00:56:53Black bear, grizzly bear, brown bear, whatever.
00:56:55Right.
00:56:55But the polar bear won't be there because it's summer.
00:56:59Gotcha.
00:57:01So there may be some unease because you're in the middle of nowhere and there are bears
00:57:04or coyotes or wolves or whatever.
00:57:05Right.
00:57:06But the polar bear, it will not be alarmed off.
00:57:12Gotcha.
00:57:13Yeah, that makes sense.
00:57:16So with regards to your inner critic, just listen.
00:57:23Now, you don't want to make your inner critic some sort of tyrant by just bowing down or,
00:57:27or fighting back, you know, for no particular reason.
00:57:30But it's like, if you have criticisms, let's hear them.
00:57:33Right.
00:57:34Yeah.
00:57:35Let's, let's hear them.
00:57:37And then you'd be amazed.
00:57:38I mean, I don't know if you've ever been in the situation where you have a criticism of
00:57:43someone or, or something like some, maybe it could be something at the, you know, at the,
00:57:48at a restaurant, right?
00:57:49Like you get a bad meal or something like that.
00:57:51And they listen and they're like, you know, we're totally sorry.
00:57:53Here's a coupon for a free meal.
00:57:55And we're not going to charge you for this one.
00:57:57Don't you feel this kind of ease?
00:58:00Yeah.
00:58:01Yeah.
00:58:01It's very blissful too.
00:58:02Right.
00:58:03So if you have criticisms as opposed to, well, you ordered the wrong thing and our chef
00:58:08is the best and, you know, we, we're going to charge you extra for, for complaining, right?
00:58:13That's just going to make you more mad, isn't it?
00:58:16Yeah.
00:58:16If they lie to you or gaslight you or, you know, whatever, right?
00:58:20That's just going to, I mean, you're certainly not going to go back, right?
00:58:24Mm-hmm.
00:58:27So with having empathy for your inner critic, which is to say, when I have a criticism of
00:58:35someone, I prefer it if they listen.
00:58:37Now they don't have to agree with everything, but I, at least once I have, once I get that
00:58:41the person I'm criticizing understands my perspective, then things de-escalate.
00:58:48Even if, you know, they, they may end up not agreeing with it for various reasons, but
00:58:53as long as I understand that they have absorbed and accepted my perspective, my criticism, then
00:58:58tensions diminish.
00:59:02Yeah.
00:59:03And even through the course of this conversation, talk about the inner critics, like I can feel
00:59:08a shift within me.
00:59:09Like, whether it be my inner father, inner critic, or however they show up, like, there's
00:59:18like a renewed optimism on both our ends.
00:59:22Right.
00:59:22So you couldn't reason with your father and you just had to resist him, which is what your
00:59:27inner critic is doing.
00:59:28But if you treat your inner critic like your father, your inner critic is really frustrated.
00:59:34Yeah.
00:59:34Right.
00:59:35Like if, if someone has poisoned you and you're in the hospital and you fight the person trying
00:59:39to pump your stomach, like they're trying to poison you, you're actually endangering
00:59:43yourself more.
00:59:44Right.
00:59:45Yeah.
00:59:46Like they're trying to help you.
00:59:47They're trying to get the poison out of you.
00:59:51But if you say, man, this, this process of getting my stomach pumped is really, really
00:59:55unpleasant and difficult.
00:59:56Well, and you're trying to kill me, well, then you're not, you're not safe.
01:00:01You're treating, you're treating the person who's trying to heal you as same as the person
01:00:05who tried to poison you.
01:00:07But the person who's trying to pump your stomach is doing it because the person poisoned you.
01:00:10They are a reaction to a dangerous situation.
01:00:15Whereas if you say, well, thank you.
01:00:16Um, I appreciate this, blah, blah, blah.
01:00:19Right.
01:00:19Well, then they can pump your stomach and you can get better.
01:00:24Yeah.
01:00:26And it's a lot of sense.
01:00:33Yeah.
01:00:34You know, stuff I was, I've been thinking about since I put in this call in our past, how
01:00:38this conversation was going to go and the things we talk about, I was not expecting this.
01:00:42This was pretty, that's why we have the conversations.
01:00:44Cause if you expected it, you need to have the conversation.
01:00:47That's to be something new.
01:00:47Right.
01:00:48Yeah, exactly.
01:00:50Yeah.
01:00:51Cause so, so you, you had, so I think the mechanic was, sorry to interrupt.
01:00:55Uh, the mechanic was you had criticisms of yourself pursuing a potential relationship
01:01:02with this, you know, sounds like pretty messed up woman.
01:01:05Right.
01:01:06Yeah.
01:01:07So rather than say, you know, I didn't listen to my inner critic.
01:01:11I didn't, I wasn't skeptical and, um, I trying to pursue this and, and then I wanted to help
01:01:18her, even though I wasn't listening to my inner critic and was kind of falsifying things
01:01:21to myself.
01:01:22So, so that would be a statement of self-knowledge and, and all of that.
01:01:25It's like, Oh no, no, no.
01:01:26She was lovely, lovely person.
01:01:29Right.
01:01:29That's a way of, you know, basically you're giving the middle finger to your inner critic,
01:01:32right?
01:01:34Yeah.
01:01:35Whereas your inner critic probably sussed her out from the beginning.
01:01:37Right.
01:01:37So this was kind of an F you to your inner critic and you were responding to that rather
01:01:43than, um, being direct and honest in the community.
01:01:48Sorry, you were going to say, go ahead.
01:01:50Yeah.
01:01:50Yeah.
01:01:51There are two things I wanted to say there.
01:01:52Um, for one use, you, uh, I do a little bit of a recap here.
01:01:58Like my inner critic was just kind of laughing at me in a way.
01:02:02It's like, yeah, I was kind of right the whole time.
01:02:05And also like when you said, um, the inner critic was sussing around from the beginning,
01:02:10like I was kind of skeptical almost the moment I laid eyes on her.
01:02:14I don't even know what it was.
01:02:16Well, it's the two just to be true.
01:02:18It's the two good to be true.
01:02:20She's attractive.
01:02:21She's charming.
01:02:22She's funny.
01:02:23She's a great dancer.
01:02:24She's a good company.
01:02:26She's this, okay, then why is she alone here at a dance?
01:02:30You mean, well, I mean, I, I should have given this detail at the start, but her brother
01:02:38was part of the band.
01:02:39So yeah, she was alone on the dance floor, but she didn't just come there alone.
01:02:45Okay.
01:02:45That's still not particularly relevant.
01:02:52You know, she's 38.
01:02:54Why is she, if she's so wonderful, right?
01:02:57Why is she still single?
01:02:59Yeah.
01:03:01Yeah.
01:03:01When I shared my experience with this woman in telegram and in vocals, a lot of the members
01:03:08of community were asking the same thing.
01:03:10It's like, okay, well then why is she single at 38?
01:03:13And even if it does work out, it's like, you know, getting a woman pregnant at that age
01:03:20is almost impossible.
01:03:23Well, and listen, I mean, it, it certainly is within the realm of possibility that she's
01:03:27single at 38 because she's really wonderful and nobody can appreciate her value and blah,
01:03:31blah, blah, blah, blah.
01:03:32I get that.
01:03:33Yeah.
01:03:34But it's also possible to save your retirement by winning the lottery, but it's not what we
01:03:40bank on, right?
01:03:41Yeah, exactly.
01:03:48So, uh, skepticism is important and healthy and listen, you can listen to your inner critic
01:03:57and still go on the hike.
01:03:59Like if you said it's important, you said you haven't been on a date in 10 years, you just
01:04:03wanted to kind of rip the bandaid off or go on some damn date.
01:04:05Okay.
01:04:06So you can, you can listen to the inner critic and she, he's, he's going to say, look, there's
01:04:11these red flags, there's these red flags.
01:04:13Let's not go into this blindfolded, right?
01:04:16You can listen to your inner critic and say, you know what, that everything you're saying
01:04:19makes sense.
01:04:21And I, I accept that.
01:04:23I still want to go on the date because I just, I just have to get some experience in
01:04:27dating.
01:04:29Yeah.
01:04:30So your inner critic is like, your inner critic is like, look, if you, if you want to go out
01:04:36of the cabin, because you're hungry or whatever, right?
01:04:41Right.
01:04:41So if you, if you want to go out of the cabin, when there's bear prints around, what does
01:04:46your inner critic say?
01:04:47If you want to go out of the cabin, you say, you know what, I accept that there's, that
01:04:51there could very likely be a dangerous bear out there, but I got to go, I really want
01:04:55to go out of the cabin.
01:04:56What's your inner critic going to say?
01:05:02Well, he'll make his case and he'll object to it.
01:05:07Nope.
01:05:08Nope.
01:05:09No, inner critic doesn't want you to starve to death if you're hungry.
01:05:13Right.
01:05:13True.
01:05:13So what is your inner critic going to say if you want to step out of the cabin and there
01:05:17could be a bear around?
01:05:18Oh, uh, proceed with extreme caution.
01:05:21Take a gun, take a bear spray, like keep your eyes peeled, uh, like go out, but be aware
01:05:28of the danger.
01:05:30Yeah.
01:05:32Whereas my approach was, you know, take like, um, like those lyrics from rage against the
01:05:38machine, you know, fuck you.
01:05:40I won't do what you tell me about a thing.
01:05:42So what you said was not only is there no bear, there's a beautiful baby deer fawn out
01:05:49there.
01:05:50She was lovely.
01:05:52You was a lovely person.
01:05:54And what that does is it puts the idea into the community, people in the community's head
01:06:04that someone can be a lovely person and turn out to be completely messed up.
01:06:09Well, what, what, what that does is it gives other people the idea that let's say they
01:06:16go out to some place and they meet a woman who seems lovely.
01:06:19They're going to be like, Ooh, yeah, but she could turn out to be really messed up, but
01:06:22that's not fair to give that impression to other people.
01:06:24Right.
01:06:26Right.
01:06:30Yeah.
01:06:30And frankly, that's even what this woman was saying too, because when I was pushing
01:06:37back on some of her relationships with friends with benefits, I'm like, well, what were the
01:06:42red flags?
01:06:43Like, how do you even determine a good person from a bad person?
01:06:47It's like, oh, everybody seemed great.
01:06:49And you know, there are all these great things about them.
01:06:52It's to imply that there's no way to tell a good person from the bad person.
01:06:56Right.
01:06:57Right.
01:06:58Right.
01:06:59And, and that then transferred to you and transferred to the live stream.
01:07:05Yeah.
01:07:08And everybody on the live stream, even, uh, my before mentioned comments in telegram and
01:07:14locals, everybody pushed back.
01:07:16So what did this woman do to vet you over the course of the dance and over the course of
01:07:22the week before you met up for the hike?
01:07:26Well, frankly, she didn't do any.
01:07:29So she just sailed on, didn't ask you about your history, didn't ask you about your relationships,
01:07:34didn't ask you about your intentions, didn't ask you anything.
01:07:37Right.
01:07:38No.
01:07:39And frankly, it was even worse than that too, because there would be times where she would
01:07:42ask a little bit about me.
01:07:44Um, there'd be something related to something going on in her life.
01:07:48And then the conversation would just flip back to her all talking about her.
01:07:51Right.
01:07:52So, yeah, she didn't want to get to know me at all, really.
01:07:55Yeah.
01:07:55And she's almost a decade older than you and she's sailing into the land of no fertility
01:07:59and she's not vetting you at all.
01:08:02Yeah.
01:08:03Well, that's, that was also another big flag.
01:08:05Yeah.
01:08:06Yeah.
01:08:09Yeah.
01:08:10Which is something I've struggled with in my limited experience trying to date women.
01:08:15There's not a lot of women that are curious about me.
01:08:19It's pretty much always one-sided.
01:08:22Well, why do you think that is?
01:08:30Um, why do I think that is?
01:08:35It's probably because I'm just yawning for not good women.
01:08:38Well, you're dealing with women at a surface level.
01:08:42She's pretty charming, right?
01:08:44Yeah.
01:08:45Right.
01:08:46This is what a lot of relationships, quote, relationships are based on fun, uh, sex, and
01:08:56maybe some shared experiences, right?
01:08:59Status or whatever, right?
01:09:00Yeah.
01:09:01Fun, sex, and lust or whatever it is, right?
01:09:03There's like the girls say about the, it's cute and funny, right?
01:09:05So, so you're dealing with these women at a surface level and then you complain that
01:09:11they're not interested in you at a deep level.
01:09:16Yeah.
01:09:16They're superficially charming and pretty and you're like, okay, sounds great.
01:09:22Yeah.
01:09:23And what I do is start to go a little deeper with these women.
01:09:26They'll break it off, which it, it, it sucks, but it's also a good thing.
01:09:29It's like, I wouldn't want to date them anyway.
01:09:33Now, but your inner critic will steer you away from these women to begin with, but you got to listen.
01:09:38Mm-hmm.
01:09:40Because your inner critic, right?
01:09:42Your inner critic will say, with regards to this woman, I don't know exactly, right?
01:09:46But your inner critic would say something like this, I think.
01:09:50Um.
01:09:54Okay.
01:09:54So she's pretty, she's charming, but she's too old.
01:09:57And she's not vetting you.
01:10:01She doesn't seem to have a job.
01:10:03She complains about her exes.
01:10:05You know, I mean, I know some of that was overlapping onto the hike and all of that, but your inner
01:10:09critic would be skeptical to begin with and would say, why are you attracted to this woman?
01:10:14Because she's fun and pretty, right?
01:10:18Yeah.
01:10:20Now, what does philosophy say about why you should be attracted to a romantic partner?
01:10:26Yeah.
01:10:27Uh, attracted to her virtues.
01:10:29Right.
01:10:30So, at the dance, did she display any particular virtues?
01:10:36No.
01:10:37Over the course of texting?
01:10:39Over the week?
01:10:40Did she display any particular virtues?
01:10:43None.
01:10:44So your inner critic was probably yelling in your ear, and you're like, shut up, I just
01:10:48need to go on a date.
01:10:50Yeah.
01:10:52And maybe I can get laid.
01:10:54Uh, well, that was a very rough thought, but I wasn't about to do that either, so.
01:11:02Well, it's pretty tough if she's an attractive woman and she comes along, she comes at you
01:11:08really strong when you go to her place.
01:11:10It's pretty tough to resist.
01:11:11I mean, the better thing is to not get into those situations to begin with.
01:11:15Yeah.
01:11:16Yeah, you're right.
01:11:17Yeah.
01:11:24So, if you're going to engage with women at a superficial level, based upon, you know,
01:11:29fun and pretty, as opposed to moral and honest, then there's really not much point complaining
01:11:35that they don't seem to be very curious about you, because you're dealing with them at a
01:11:41very superficial level, right?
01:11:43Fun and pretty.
01:11:44Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
01:11:54And if you're looking at a woman who's 38 and is, quote, fun and pretty, then you have
01:11:58to look and say, okay, she's been in the dating market for more than 20 years, right?
01:12:04And nobody has snapped her up.
01:12:07Yeah.
01:12:07Yeah.
01:12:14If a used car has been on the lot for 20 years and nobody has bought it, what are the
01:12:23odds it's a really high-quality used car?
01:12:26Ah, next to none.
01:12:28Right.
01:12:29Especially if, to continue to use that analogy, if people just use it for like a month or two
01:12:34and give it back.
01:12:36Yeah.
01:12:38Yeah, the odds of it being a lemon are close to 100%, right?
01:12:42Yeah.
01:12:42Yeah.
01:12:44Yeah, if there's a car for sale and they're honest about it, said this car was made over
01:12:5120 years ago and nobody has owned it for more than a month or so, and everybody who
01:12:58owns it is very enthusiastic and then wants to sell it within a couple of weeks, the odds
01:13:03of it being a high-quality car are very low.
01:13:08Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, but you're cutting out a little bit here and there, little
01:13:13robotic sounds.
01:13:15I'm not sure if that's mine or yours.
01:13:17I mean, I'm on a very fast data line, so I don't think it's mine, but as long as you
01:13:21get in the gist, I have a local recording, so we should be all right.
01:13:25Okay, good.
01:13:25So, yeah, I mean, I don't have much more to add other than, look, I appreciate the frankness
01:13:30that you brought this topic up with, and none of this is a criticism, you understand,
01:13:34right?
01:13:34I mean, none of this is any kind of finger-wagging or nagging or anything like that, but I will
01:13:39say that the real dedication...
01:13:41It's pretty hard for me to make out what you're saying, but yeah, I do appreciate that.
01:13:46Okay, so if something's going wrong with your data line, you'll just have to listen to it
01:13:49at the end.
01:13:50So I'll close off here and just say, just in general, you've got to make friends with
01:13:55your inner critic.
01:13:56They have real valuable stuff.
01:13:57They're trying to keep you safe.
01:13:58They're trying to keep you protected, and the best way to reduce any hostility or aggression
01:14:06in your inner critic is to listen and to accept what the inner critic has to say, which doesn't
01:14:13mean to agree with everything, but just listen and you'll find that there's a lot of valuable
01:14:18information that you can get that really helps guide you through life.
01:14:23Rejecting your inner critic is like rejecting physical pain.
01:14:25Like you need physical pain in order to help you navigate safely through life, and you
01:14:30need an inner critic in order to navigate safely through life, and I think that's the better
01:14:35approach.
01:14:36All right, so it sounds like you can't hear me too well, so I'll just close off here unless
01:14:40there's anything you wanted to say at the end.
01:14:43Well, no, I appreciate that.
01:14:45Yeah, you're starting to come through better now.
01:14:47It's probably just Telegram, but yeah, I appreciate that.
01:14:51Yeah, it's a dedication to honesty, truth, and curiosity.
01:14:56Beautiful.
01:14:57Just, you know, working with my inner critic is, yeah, like my inner critic was skeptical,
01:15:01like I said, from the moment I even put my eyes on her looking back.
01:15:05Yeah, I would just say, you know, sit down, do some journaling, and ask your inner critic
01:15:08to list out everything that he saw at the very beginning, and, you know, just say, I'm going
01:15:14to listen.
01:15:15It doesn't mean we're always going to agree, but I'm absolutely going to listen.
01:15:19Yeah, have the conversation.
01:15:21Yeah, yeah.
01:15:21All right, man.
01:15:22Well, I appreciate the chat today, and I look forward to seeing you on the live streams,
01:15:25and I really do appreciate this topic.
01:15:27I think it's very important.
01:15:28Yeah.
01:15:29Thank you so much, Steph.
01:15:30Thanks, man.
01:15:30I appreciate it.
01:15:31Bye-bye.
01:15:31Bye for now.
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