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01:00Using actors to reenact key moments.
01:03Objection.
01:05In this episode, the prosecution's star witness takes the stand.
01:09Who gave the ecstasy?
01:11Sean.
01:12With an explosive story about that now infamous hotel surveillance tape.
01:17I got a call from Cassie around 530.
01:20And Kid Cudi testifies about a wild story of sex, lies, and videotape.
01:25I want to fight him.
01:26Hello, and welcome to Ditty on Trial as it happened.
01:39Thank you for joining us.
01:41I'm your host, Sunny Hostin.
01:42Joining me, criminal defense attorney Mark Eiglarsh and writer and cultural critic Toure.
01:48We've heard graphic testimony from Sean Combs' ex-girlfriend, Cassie Ventura, and other witnesses.
01:54But as the defense stated in their opening, the accused is not charged with domestic violence.
02:00And the prosecution still has a very high bar to clear.
02:03A crucial piece of evidence in their case is the infamous surveillance video of Ventura's assault.
02:09And through Ventura's next section of testimony, we saw for the first time how she says it all began.
02:17Can you describe to the jury what happened?
02:23Inside the hotel room, we were having a freak-off.
02:27But in the middle of it, I got hit by Sean and had a black eye.
02:31And at that point, all I could think about was getting out of there safely.
02:35I had my premiere, and I didn't want to mess it up, so I left.
02:40I knew I had to get out.
02:43I made it to the elevators.
02:45I got my sneakers on, and then the next thing I knew,
02:49he grabbed me by the back of my neck and my hoodie and just threw me to the ground.
02:55What did you do?
02:57I, at that moment, I covered my face and just stayed there.
03:02Why did you cover your face?
03:04Because I didn't want him to do any more damage than he'd already done.
03:08Why did you just stay on the ground?
03:11Because it felt like the safest place to be.
03:16Her friend, Kerry Morgan, adds her testimony to the incident,
03:19explaining that Ventura fled the hotel to her home, where Morgan was waiting.
03:23She had her hoodie, like, over her head, and she was just kind of, like, slumped, and she just dropped her bags.
03:31When she pulled her hoodie back, she had a black eye.
03:34After Cassie arrived to the apartment, who, if anyone else, came to the apartment?
03:39Sean Combs came.
03:40And how much later did he come?
03:42It was probably, like, 30 minutes, I guess.
03:44Can you describe what happened when he arrived?
03:48Yes.
03:49He was hitting the door with a hammer to try to open it.
03:51How did you know it was Mr. Combs?
03:53He was yelling.
03:54I could hear him.
03:55There was a peephole we could see through.
03:58How did you know it was a hammer?
03:59We could see it.
04:01How did you feel when you saw, when you heard this?
04:05I was terrified.
04:05And how did Cassie appear?
04:08Numb.
04:09Why did you say numb?
04:11She was just sitting on the couch.
04:13She wasn't doing anything.
04:14She wasn't...
04:15I was freaking out, and she was just, like, she didn't care if he came in and killed her.
04:22Now, Mark, everyone has seen this surveillance video.
04:27Some are even saying there would be no case without this surveillance video.
04:33So how does the government use this to its advantage?
04:38Well, it is horrible for Combs.
04:40I think the burden of proof immediately shifted to the defense the minute they saw that video.
04:45If I'm on the defense side, I don't know, I hire David Copperfield to see if he can make it disappear.
04:50And barring that, I argue, look, that's not what we're here for.
04:53We're here for racketeering and sex trafficking.
04:55And that's not, you know, domestic violence.
04:57But we see in that moment, she is trying to leave a freak-off, and he literally beats her and pulls her back.
05:04There is visualized force and coercion right there.
05:08No question.
05:09But you say, again, you've got to lay out an opening statement.
05:12You concede he's flawed, he is a violent person, but they're accusing him of being a racketeer.
05:19That he is someone who involved himself in sex trafficking.
05:23But racketeering by force and coercion.
05:24It's a question that helps the government used his money and his business to get that tape and make the situation go away.
05:31That's racketeering right there.
05:32What does he mean by racketeering?
05:34Yeah.
05:34There was a criminal enterprise, and using that criminal enterprise, he committed these specific offenses, which we're going to talk about.
05:42And you only need two or more to inspire.
05:45The people in his business helped him commit these crimes.
05:49So you're saying that's the two or more?
05:51Yes, it's not a criminal enterprise like The Sopranos, where they're all committing crimes.
05:56It's an enterprise where crime happens, and the other people are helping him commit the crimes.
06:01Which crimes?
06:03Sex trafficking.
06:03Because as we're going to talk about it, I don't think arson was proven, but we'll talk about that.
06:08Sex trafficking.
06:09Trafficking.
06:09Well, that requires someone who's not consenting, and that's murky.
06:13So consent.
06:14It may all come down to consent.
06:16It does.
06:17The stakes of this trial are enormous.
06:20Sean Combs faces life in prison if convicted.
06:24But a verdict of guilty requires all 12 jurors to agree.
06:28And one of the crucial questions they must decide, why Ventura stayed with Combs despite the alleged abuse.
06:36The prosecution raises the argument of blackmail.
06:39What were you referring to when you said blackmail materials?
06:45Blackmail materials would be actual, like, sex videos, freak-off videos, even just other embarrassing videos.
06:54Me drunk.
06:55Like, anything that would make me look not great.
06:58When, if ever, would Sean mention the freak-off videos to you?
07:04He would mention them when he was upset about something.
07:08It was just a pretty common thing.
07:10What, if anything, did Sean show you on the flight back to New York from France?
07:15He pulled up videos that I thought I had deleted.
07:18Some freak-off videos out of his computer.
07:21Like, I thought I really deleted them out.
07:23He had them pulled up and was playing them for me on the flight back to New York.
07:29What did he say about the videos while he was playing them for you on the plane?
07:33That he was going to embarrass me and release them.
07:37Just threats to release the videos.
07:40When Sean was playing freak-off videos for you on the plane, how did you feel?
07:45Couldn't have felt worse.
07:47Also scared.
07:48I just felt trapped.
07:52Like, how do you get out of this situation when somebody's, I don't know, I felt trapped.
07:59When you landed in New York, what did you do?
08:02We landed in New York, ended up going to a dinner, and he wanted to have a freak-off, so we had a freak-off.
08:10Why did you do the freak-off?
08:12Honestly, at that point, whatever was going to make him not be angry at me and threatening me, I was willing to do.
08:22Have you ever witnessed Mr. Combs express concern about these videos being released?
08:26Yes.
08:27And Mr. Combs always supported you in not wanting these videos to come out and prevented these videos from coming out?
08:33I would say for the most part.
08:34To your knowledge, Mr. Combs was also concerned about recordings of him getting out, right?
08:39Yep.
08:39And Mr. Combs is a celebrity, as we've already established, right?
08:44Yes.
08:45And these would have been embarrassing to him had they been released, right?
08:49Yes.
08:49Just as they would have been embarrassing to you had they been released?
08:53I guess it depends on what content.
08:55Yeah.
08:57Tere, put yourself in a juror's seat.
09:01How do you feel about the videos, the threats of the videos being released?
09:05The idea that he's holding over her head, I will put this out and hurt you.
09:11That feels so powerful.
09:13Like, I'm like, oh my God.
09:14Like, I feel for this.
09:15This is the coercion.
09:17And this is a thing he does.
09:18His assistant, David James, also says, I was acting silly at a party.
09:23And he told me, I have video of you.
09:26So if I need to, I'll...
09:27So this is his MO of just blackmailing people.
09:30And I know that it's not proven.
09:32But when we see him doing it to multiple people, that's got to be powerful for the jury.
09:36But here's the closing argument.
09:38Why then do more videos if you're fearful that they're going to be released?
09:41Because I was controlled by the videos I already did.
09:44Prosecutors allege that blackmail and threats spilled over to other people in Ventura's
09:52orbit, including Scott Mess Cuddy, the rapper also known as Kid Cuddy, who Ventura was dating
09:58in 2011.
09:59When you started dating Scott, did you tell Sean about Scott?
10:03No.
10:04What was the status of your relationship with Sean at that time?
10:07We were always, like, up and down at different times.
10:11And it was definitely a time where we were not in the greatest place.
10:15Did there come a time when Sean found out about Scott?
10:19Yes.
10:20How did he find out?
10:21How did Sean find out?
10:23He actually found out during a freak-off in L.A.
10:27He went through my phone, and I believe he saw emails between me and one of his staff members.
10:33Ms. Gavin, can you please pull up what's in evidence as Government Exhibit B-315 and publish
10:40it?
10:41Can you read the contents of the email?
10:44Threats.
10:45The threats that have been made towards me by Sean Puffy Combs are that he is going to
10:50release two explicit sex tapes of me, one on Christmas Day, maybe before or right after,
10:57and another one sometime soon after that.
10:59And he's also said that he will be having someone hurt me and Scott Muscutty physically.
11:05He made a point that it wouldn't be by his hands.
11:08He actually said he'd be out of the country when it happened.
11:11What specific danger were you worried about?
11:14I mean, Sean said to me before I left L.A. that he was going to hurt the both of us.
11:20And I at least took that in my mind, like, if I stay in this situation, we both will be
11:26hurt.
11:27If I don't, then no one will be.
11:30We flash forward to the second week of the trial when Mr. Muscutty took the stand with
11:35some stunning testimony.
11:37Can you describe the conversation that you had with Mr. Combs on the drive to your home?
11:41Yeah.
11:42I'm going to be very candid.
11:45I said, motherfucker, you in my house?
11:46And he was like, what's up?
11:50I was like, motherfucker, are you in my house?
11:52And he said, I just want to talk to you.
11:54I was like, I'm on my way over right now.
11:57He was like, I'm here.
12:00And I said, I'm on my way over to my house right now.
12:04He's like, I'm over here waiting for you.
12:06I want to focus now on the inside of your home.
12:08When you went inside, was anyone inside of your home?
12:12No.
12:13What did you see inside your home?
12:15Some gifts that I bought for my family were opened.
12:18Some stuff I got from Chanel.
12:20And then my dog was locked up in my bathroom.
12:24I want to focus on what you did next.
12:27After you got to your home, what did you do after that?
12:31I got in the car, and that's when I called Sean Combs.
12:34Why did you call Mr. Combs again?
12:37Because I was looking for him.
12:38Why were you looking for him?
12:40Because I wanted to confront him.
12:41I wanted to fight him, you know?
12:44Can you describe that conversation for the jury?
12:48I can't remember my exact words, but it's kind of like asking him where he was.
12:56And he was, I'm on my way.
12:57I'm on my way.
12:59So at that point, I hung up and I thought to myself, I was like, okay, you're angry.
13:04Did there come a time after this when Sean mentioned Scott's car?
13:09Yes.
13:11He mentioned that when we were out of the country, that Scott's car would be blown up.
13:16He wanted his friends to be there to see it.
13:19When you say he wanted his friends to be there to see it, who is he?
13:24Sean wanted Scott's friends to be there to see the car get blown up in the driveway.
13:28Directing your attention to January of 2012, did there come a time when you learned that
13:35your car had caught fire?
13:37Yes.
13:38How did you learn that your car had caught fire?
13:40My dog's babysitter called me in the morning.
13:43And what did your dog's babysitter say to you about what she saw?
13:46She told me my car was on fire.
13:48So I want to focus on these two photographs.
13:51It looks like the top of my Porsche was cut open, and that's where they inserted the Molotov cocktail.
13:59Mr. Muscuddy, starting with the one on the left, can you please describe what we are seeing
14:05in the government exhibit 3F-103?
14:09That's the door to the driver's side, smoke damage.
14:14What was your reaction to seeing your car being set on fire?
14:18Just what the fuck?
14:19I want to ask you some questions about your Porsche, okay?
14:24Yes.
14:24You get a phone call alerting you that there has been serious damage to your vehicle.
14:30Yes.
14:31And are there any surveillance photographs at that time?
14:34No.
14:35No eyewitnesses that put Sean Combs near or around your property on or about January 9, 2012.
14:42Fair to say?
14:44Yeah.
14:44And no eyewitness or other evidence that anybody affiliated with Mr. Sean Combs was on or around
14:51your property on January 9, 2012.
14:54Is that true?
14:54Objection.
14:56Hold on for a second.
14:59That's sustained.
15:00You don't have any information, do you?
15:03You personally, that anybody affiliated with Mr. Combs was on or around your property at
15:08the time of the damage to your vehicle.
15:10Is that true?
15:11No.
15:13Of course, Sean Combs says he had nothing to do with the burning of his car, but Ture,
15:19what do you make of that kind of testimony?
15:20First of all, Puffy said earlier that I will hurt Kid Cudi's car.
15:25So he made a threat to this prior to it happen, said I will be out of the country, I won't
15:30have my fingerprints on it.
15:31That's in a text message, right?
15:33Yeah, so he's already announcing what he's going to do, but this is an example of violence,
15:37of revenge, of you want to be with somebody else, I'm going to hurt them.
15:41So eventually, Cassie testifies that she leaves Cudi because if I stay with him, we'll both
15:46get hurt.
15:47If I leave him, then no one will get hurt.
15:49So I'll go back.
15:50So again, she's going back to her abuser because it's better for her.
15:54I agree with everything that just flowed from his lips, assuming it was proven in a
16:00court of law.
16:01See, court of public opinion, we're going next level, superhero, evil villain type of
16:07guy, right?
16:07I mean, he's abhorrent.
16:10However, in a court of law, I ask you, who was ever prosecuted for these crimes?
16:16Who saw them?
16:16Where's the direct evidence of it?
16:18Who saw Combs in the home?
16:21So what they proved in a court of law is he definitely maybe did it.
16:26He probably did it.
16:27Beyond a shadow of a doubt, it likely was him.
16:30That's not enough in criminal court.
16:32But how does this affect the jury, though?
16:35Well, once again, they find new reasons to hate this guy, right?
16:39But they're still wondering, was it him?
16:41But even if he sends people to do it, Cassie is thinking, I could be hurt if I don't do what
16:48he wants.
16:49Of course.
16:49And the jury is aware of, like, look, his violence and control of her is not just on
16:54her body.
16:55It's also on other people.
16:57I agree with you.
16:58That goes to coercion, Mark.
17:00That goes to coercion.
17:01100%, but we've got to define the pronouns.
17:03Did he do it?
17:05Did he do it?
17:06Or did just someone else randomly do it?
17:08It's possible.
17:09That's why they don't bring charges unless there's direct evidence.
17:12But Combs denies being in Kid Cuddy's home.
17:16He denies blowing up his car.
17:19Sure.
17:20But wait, when he, when Cuddy called him and said, are you in my house?
17:24He said, yes.
17:25Says Cuddy.
17:26I mean, again, where's the direct evidence of all this?
17:28The jurors decide what to believe.
17:31And you know what?
17:32With no video in a day and age where everybody sees video of everything, with no DNA, with
17:37no fingerprints, with no busload of nuns who saw him do it, you don't have proof.
17:41And that's what the defense is going to argue in closing.
17:46The prosecution, starting to wrap up with Ventura, focused on the end of her relationship
17:51with Combs.
17:53Already separated, they met for dinner in Malibu in August of 2018.
17:56She explains to prosecutors that they were having a closure conversation, after which
18:01Mr. Combs drove her home.
18:04Let's watch the back and forth as both the government and the defense tackle this very
18:09emotional testimony.
18:10When you arrived at your home, what happened?
18:14Um, I went inside, went in the living room.
18:19He came in, pretty usual, nothing weird.
18:22Um, and then, and then he raped me in my living room.
18:30Where in your living room did the rape happen?
18:33On the floor.
18:36How did you physically react when Sean raped you?
18:41I just remember crying and saying no, but it was very fast, so...
18:46What, if anything, did you observe about Sean's physical appearance?
18:50Just, like, eyes black.
18:55I kind of said that before.
18:57Just wasn't himself.
19:00The laughing and, like, all the things that were happening before that were not there.
19:07You know, it was just like somebody taking something from you.
19:11Just, like, without...
19:12You said that you cried?
19:15I did.
19:16What did Sean do when you cried?
19:19He continued.
19:19I don't even know if he noticed, honestly.
19:23You also said that you said no.
19:26What did Sean do when you said no?
19:28He continued and finished.
19:33Your testimony is that he was acting strangely.
19:36He was acting strangely, yeah.
19:38And you told the prosecutors that you thought his behavior might be attributed to his bipolar disorder, right?
19:44Yeah.
19:45You also told the prosecutors that you did not think that Combs was in his right mind because he did not respond when you told him to stop.
19:51Is that correct?
19:53Yep.
19:53After the rape in your living room, were you intimate with Sean again?
19:58I was, one more time, but by choice.
20:02Can you explain to the jury why you agreed to see Sean again after the rape?
20:08We've been together for over ten years.
20:13Like, you don't just turn feelings off that way.
20:16We were very connected at that point still.
20:18I still had good vision of who he was as a person.
20:22Like, I didn't hate him.
20:24And this is a month after August 2018, right?
20:29Yep.
20:31And you don't still hate him now, right?
20:34I don't hate him.
20:36In fact, you still have love for him.
20:40I have love for the past and what it was.
20:45So we hear Cassie testify that she was raped.
20:48But then she sends a text message to Sean Combs with a heart emoji.
20:54And then she meets with him again and has a consensual, what she calls, a consensual sexual encounter.
21:02Does that, Mark, affect her credibility in any way with this jury?
21:05It may.
21:06The defense is going to argue it.
21:08It was already challenging for them to understand why someone who was so controlled stayed in the relationship.
21:13Then who had violence committed against them stayed in the relationship.
21:16Involved in freak-offs that she allegedly was coerced in doing.
21:20Now, a whole other level is she is violently raped, allegedly.
21:24He denies it, of course.
21:26And then she not only stays in the relationship but sends him a heart-shaped emoji.
21:31Meets with him afterwards.
21:33Then has consensual sex with him.
21:36That is mind-blowing to the average juror.
21:38They're going to have to explain, the government will, why this occurred.
21:41I think he's absolutely right that it is a difficult thing to understand.
21:44This person has been controlling you, allegedly, for a very long time.
21:47I think she gave an answer at the end when she said, feelings don't go away.
21:53And she's referencing how love is messy, love is complicated.
21:56You still want the good part of that person and to remove the bad part, the beatings and all that stuff.
22:02So she's still hoping for the good part of Sean, a puff of Diddy that she loves.
22:09Now, is the jury going to understand it and understand when she says the feelings don't go away?
22:14Can they understand that?
22:15I hope so.
22:16Yeah, and they threw in this thing about bipolar.
22:18Right.
22:18Where did that come from?
22:20He denies it, of course.
22:21And he's always denied it.
22:22He does say that he's just a moody person.
22:24Yeah.
22:24But his attorneys are saying he's also using drugs.
22:27So it's not him, really.
22:29It's all these other things that are making him act this way.
22:31What if the jury thinks she just regrets what happened?
22:35There was no rape?
22:35This is a very difficult situation for the jury.
22:38Very difficult to understand the love, the feelings, the control.
22:43The coercion is hard to see at times.
22:45The love keeps her there.
22:48This is going to require a lot of nuance from the jury to understand what's really going on here.
22:56In 2018, the couple finally broke up for good.
22:59But in 2023, Ventura filed a civil lawsuit against Sean Combs, alleging physical and sexual abuse.
23:07It was settled the very next day with no admission of wrongdoing.
23:12Ms. Ventura, to be clear, do you have any pending lawsuits?
23:16Pending lawsuits, no.
23:18Do you have any financial stake in the outcome of this trial?
23:21Absolutely not.
23:22How much money did Sean pay to settle your lawsuit?
23:28$20 million.
23:30Would you give that money back if it meant you never had to have freak-offs?
23:34Objection.
23:35It's overruled.
23:36I'd give that money back if it meant I never had to have freak-offs.
23:40If I never had to have freak-offs, I would have agency and autonomy and...
23:45Objection.
23:46It's overruled.
23:47You can continue, Ms. Ventura.
23:50I wouldn't have to work so hard to get it back.
23:54And when you say get it back, are you talking about the agency and autonomy that you mentioned?
24:00Yeah.
24:01But then, in the final hours of Ventura's testimony, the defense dropped a bombshell.
24:07You just reached the settlement with the Intercontinental last week, right?
24:10Objection.
24:11Beyond the scope.
24:12That's overruled.
24:13I don't know if it was last week, in the past month.
24:16Before your testimony today, right?
24:19Yeah.
24:20Did you make a demand on the Intercontinental?
24:22I did.
24:23Do you anticipate receiving some settlement in that case or matter?
24:27I do.
24:28How much do you expect to receive?
24:30I don't know the exact number.
24:33Can you provide an estimate?
24:35I think I would...10 million, maybe.
24:39And have you reached the end of settlement discussions with the Intercontinental?
24:43I have.
24:44Do you expect to receive 10 million?
24:46From the Intercontinental?
24:49Yeah.
24:49So that was quite a bombshell.
24:51We heard about $20 million coming from Sean Combs to Cassie.
24:56Now we hear about an additional $10 million coming from the Intercontinental Hotel.
25:02Tere, how do you think that plays with this jury?
25:05Are they going to think, okay, well, she's a gold digger.
25:09She made $30 million off of this.
25:11I saw her get beat up in the hotel and the tape was taken.
25:16The hotel let the tape get taken.
25:18Of course she's owed a bunch of money.
25:20Of course Diddy owes her $20 million.
25:22To me, as a layperson who hasn't taken the bar, everybody's admitting they're guilty.
25:27Diddy admitted he is guilty $20 million worth.
25:30The hotel admitted they're guilty $10 million worth.
25:33She's already got the money.
25:35She's not incentivized to tell a greater story.
25:38She's already been paid.
25:39She's there under subpoena, not under her own will.
25:43All this to me says, of course they're guilty.
25:46That is the government's argument.
25:48The defense will argue after the judge instructs the jurors, as the judge always does in these cases,
25:54that you can consider bias, motive, interest in the outcome.
26:0030 million reasons to shape a narrative to make him look more guilty than he is is going to be the argument.
26:07I'm with you and it doesn't make any sense to me, but those jurors who make a fraction of that amount of money
26:13in their entire lives are going, wow, that means something here.
26:18She already has the money, but will it make a difference?
26:22She would take all that money, give it back to avoid what she went through.
26:25Which she said.
26:26I know she said that.
26:27She did say that.
26:28I know.
26:28So we're all in agreement on that.
26:30So that goes to the notion of like, she's not in it for money.
26:32She's not a gold digger.
26:33She wishes that this didn't happen.
26:35She'd rather have her agency and her spiritual freedom than this 30 mil.
26:39Well, let me ask you both this.
26:41How is the case going so far for the prosecution?
26:46He is at the top of the pyramid.
26:48Who are the people that did his evil deeds?
26:51We need to hear from them or they need to be indicted.
26:55In the next episode, witnesses take us inside the secretive kingdom of the bad boy immobile.
27:01I remember sitting at her desk and we were sitting at her desk and there was a picture of Mr. Combs on the wall.
27:10Sorry.
27:11You can take your time, Mr. Combs.
27:13There's a box of Kleenex next to you if you need it.
27:17She pointed at the wall and she said, this is Mr. Combs' kingdom and we're all here to serve in it.
27:23It's gone.
27:31Iove it.
27:33If you need it.
27:37I've got this key to your wife.
27:39I was here to invoke the world to see me.
27:41I was here to absorb the incredible detail.
27:43I was like, how if I can give you the world and you're from!
27:45You
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