Spain says NATO 5% spending target is 'unreasonable'

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00:00Let's bring you the images from the NATO summit taking place in the Hague in the Netherlands.

00:04The gathering of leaders, of course, very important in terms of what happens next for the alliance

00:09and all the issues that it is facing.

00:12Mark Rutter says he has no doubt that the U.S. is committed to Article 5 of the NATO charter.

00:17That, of course, is the famous clause that means an attack on one member state is an attack on all.

00:22It's been invoked only once, of course, when the United States was attacked by terrorists on September 11th, 2001.

00:30U.S. President Trump arriving this evening from Washington in time for the traditional family photo,

00:36which will be taking place very shortly, featuring all the leaders.

00:41Rutter, who is NATO's Secretary General, and once he was the Prime Minister of the Netherlands,

00:47sent Trump a message congratulating him on his decisive action this weekend

00:52in sending U.S. stealth bombers to attack those three key nuclear sites in Iran.

00:56The big issue facing NATO members in this summit is approval of a 5% spend per GDP on defense

01:03from each of the 32 countries that make up the pact.

01:08Ukraine's President at War, Vladimir Zelensky, appeared in person to appeal for financial help.

01:12He said,

01:13Ukraine can produce 800 million drones a year, but it needs funding help.

01:17Well, that 5% defense spend is an issue because of Trump.

01:24In fact, it's one of his successes since returning to power in January.

01:27He had this to say about Spain looking to pay out less.

01:31You didn't think the U.S. should have to agree to the 5% increase in GDP on defense?

01:39No.

01:40Do you want to do that?

01:41I was the one that said that's what they should be paying, as you know.

01:45No, I should do something.

01:47And they're having a problem with Spain.

01:50There's always a problem with Spain.

01:52Because Spain's not agreeing, which is very unfair to the rest of them.

01:55Donald Trump on his aircraft.

01:58Let's bring in, via our normal link-ups from Madrid, Sarah Morris, our correspondent there.

02:05Sarah, good evening to you.

02:05Did Sanchez, the Prime Minister, do this because he knows his fragile left-wing government

02:10won't back extra defense spending?

02:15Well, it's certainly true that he's got left-wing votes and left-wing partners,

02:19even in his government, who have said that they don't even believe in NATO

02:24and so he knows that going to the parliament will be very difficult,

02:29particularly because he is being dogged by these corruption scandals.

02:33He's also been effectively struggling to pass a budget for the last year and a half.

02:39So it may well be that he thought, how do I manage my coalition government?

02:44How do I keep people on side?

02:46Can I ensure that I don't have to have the big political fight back home of upping the spending to 5%?

02:56And he's been really saying that the deal is done,

03:00that tomorrow there'll be a joint statement out from those 32 NATO allies,

03:06and they will say that allies commit to 5% and not we.

03:12And that will be the flexibility, says the government, to allow Spain to meet its capability targets,

03:21to meet its commitments to NATO but without committing to that 5%.

03:27But you heard Donald Trump there saying Spain is still a problem.

03:32The Spanish government is trying to say that this is already a done deal,

03:36that the NATO Secretary General Mark Reuter has given commitments in writing

03:42and that that will be the final deal that it's signed.

03:46But they're obviously insisting that they don't want to have a big spat with the United States on that.

03:52And they're pointing out that that flexibility would actually help other partners,

03:57that if other partners like Belgium, Slovakia have also said that they can't spend that kind of part of their budgets

04:07on defence, that will help them to give unity to tomorrow's statement.

04:13And they've even said, well, look, given that Donald Trump has signalled

04:17that he doesn't want to spend 5% as a NATO ally,

04:21that the United States could also be sheltered by that broad, flexible statement.

04:26That is a very interesting idea, Sarah.

04:29Coming back to Spain, strictly speaking, inside the government, of course,

04:33elements of chicanery, allegations of corruption.

04:36Could this NATO deal be, in some ways, a convenient distraction from what's going on?

04:42That is exactly what the opposition parties say,

04:46the People's Party basically saying that there needs to be an election,

04:51that Sanchez, Pedro Sanchez, the socialist prime minister, needs to go

04:55and that these scandals are affecting his close circle and that they will only continue to grow.

05:03Really, the big news was when the second number three in the Socialist Party had to step down last week.

05:11And finally, the top leader, Sanchez, stopped standing up for him

05:17and saying that he had committed no wrongdoing.

05:20He's now out of the party, Santos-Terdán.

05:24And on Monday, he'll be questioned over whether he took backhanders on public deals.

05:31Today, Santos-Terdán's lawyer made a very unusual move.

05:35He said he wanted Monday's questioning, which is normally a closed door.

05:40He wants that to be televised so that there could be full transparency.

05:44He says he committed no wrongdoing.

05:48But as Sanchez is being dogged by many of these corruption investigations,

05:53he says he knew nothing about any wrongdoing

05:56and that the Socialist Party is a party that throws people out who are accused of corruption

06:04and that they will basically clean up any aspects of the party.

06:09But then it hasn't stopped veteran socialists who have been in former socialist governments

06:14putting out a statement recently saying that they want Pedro Sanchez to resign.

06:22They say they need to restore the good name of the party.

06:26Sarah, I'm wondering what people around you, the people that you socialise with,

06:30that you sort of pass on a day-to-day basis, ordinary Spanish folk,

06:34how do they feel about defence spending?

06:36Because clearly it might be something that, given where Spain is geographically on the map,

06:42distanced from the problems in the east of Europe,

06:45do they feel that they're separate from it?

06:47Or don't they want to protect Ukraine and the EU from any kind of Russian threat?

06:53Mark, they are very supportive of Ukraine and Ukrainians.

06:58And Pedro Sanchez has been one of the most outspoken supporters of Volodymyr Zelensky.

07:03And he has made commitments to him and given him the arms and the weapons,

07:09even if it meant essentially not listening to some of his left-wing allies.

07:14However, I think that Spaniards do feel that that threat from Russia is not on their borders.

07:22This is a pacifist country because of its past in many ways,

07:26in many ways because of that military dictatorship,

07:29because of the civil war that preceded it,

07:33many Spaniards are reticent to arm to the teeth.

07:37They are reticent to give a lot of power to the army.

07:41And we've seen that from the fact that Spain was really the laggard in the NATO.

07:47It had about 1.28% of spending.

07:51It's increased and says it will commit to 2.1% of GDP.

07:58But that shows you that even the People's Party on the right of the political spectrum

08:02is no more committed to big defence commitments than the socialists and the left-wing.

08:09Sarah Morris, as always, thank you very much indeed for giving us that insight from Madrid.

08:14Spain looking to pay less than the 5% that Donald Trump has stipulated should be paid.

08:20And, of course, that made a massive splash in the NATO pool

08:23when Trump threw that brick into the water and saw that figure of 5% come up floating.

08:30Many countries, of course, meeting that already.

08:33Spain saying that, well, you know,

08:34why should we be paying so much for something that perhaps doesn't touch on us?

08:38However, Sarah, they're pointing out that Pedro Sanchez, the Prime Minister,

08:42and it seems ordinary Spanish people have a real sympathy

08:45with the plight of Ukraine, of Ukrainian people,

08:48the threat that Russia presents to them,

08:50and, of course, their leader, Vladimir Zelensky,

08:53and how he has very gallantly led the country

08:55since Vladimir Putin led his invasion of Ukraine on the 22nd,

09:0124th of February, excuse me, back in 2022.

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