Macron and Støre denounce 'illegal' US strikes on Iran, call for 'diplomatic solution'

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00:00You're watching a live press conference there from the Norwegian capital, Oslo, France,

00:05as President Emmanuel Macron and the company of Norwegian Prime Minister Jonas Garsture.

00:10They have signed a strategic partnership, and we heard the Norwegians and the French

00:16in lockstep when it came to the U.S. bombing of Iran, saying, yes, it's a violation of

00:24international law and arguing against the idea of regime change, which is still being

00:31floated about.

00:33Our coverage begins here with one of our international affairs editor, Angela Diffley, who joins us

00:41here.

00:42Norway, which in the past has been a historic mediator when it comes to the Middle East.

00:47It's a small country, but it's one that has a voice when it comes to diplomacy.

00:52And here, it was interesting to hear the French president's remarks, which two days ahead

00:58of a NATO summit set him distinctly apart from Donald Trump.

01:03Yeah, they both rather fudged that question over whether it was in violation of international

01:09law and instead said diplomacy is always better, but didn't actually want to make a very clear

01:16statement on that.

01:17I mean, I think one of them said at one stage it was outside international law, another one

01:21said it was not illegal.

01:23Diplomacy was always better.

01:25They did not...

01:25You know, he did say it was illegal.

01:27He said it was...

01:27I thought he said it...

01:28No, it was mistranslated, but I did hear it properly in French.

01:31Okay, so he's...

01:32Okay, so...

01:33He said that it was not legal.

01:35In any case, they were very uncomfortable with that question because, of course, it raises

01:40all sorts of possibilities of does international law matter any more at all.

01:44For so long, they've been saying Russia invaded Ukraine.

01:49Russia said this was a preemptive attack because we were worried that Ukraine would have armies

01:58on our borders join NATO.

01:59You know, where does a preemptive attack on Iran's nuclear facilities then put that argument?

02:07It's all a very, very difficult question, which neither of them are very keen to have

02:13a clear answer to.

02:14Very interesting was when they were asked whether there was any possible scenario where France

02:20or Norway might be brought into this because it's a bit tricky.

02:23You know, of course, there is Article 5.

02:25They are both NATO members.

02:27In theory, you go to the aid of a country which is attacked if American bases are attacked.

02:34Of course, that would be, in Iran's parlance, a counterattack after the US had struck Iranian

02:41nuclear facilities.

02:42But all of this gets very, very complicated.

02:44And Donald Trump, who has been so famously uninterested in NATO, might find, now that they're

02:52being asked questions about whether they should come to the aid of the US, all very difficult.

02:56Norway, as you say, has historically been a mediator in the Middle East.

03:00And you know how serious things are when countries, Norway and France, they were both more keen to

03:05talk about Gaza than Iran.

03:07You know, that's an indication of just how difficult all of this is, that they felt on safer territory

03:11discussing Gaza, which is already a giant mess.

03:16It gives you an indication of just how turbulent the world is.

03:19As you say, Norway has always been a mediator in the Middle East, the famous Oslo Accords,

03:25which, of course...

03:26Yeah.

03:27We heard Prime...

03:28I'll bring you in now.

03:29We can go to Oslo.

03:30And Pernille Rieker, director of the University of Oslo's Centre for European Studies, we heard

03:35the Norwegian Prime Minister, state emphatically that this is not NATO territory.

03:42And I guess that harks back to the days when NATO was involved in Afghanistan.

03:47It's not going to be the case when it comes to Iran.

03:52Absolutely.

03:53I think that both Macron and Norway will not see any kind of NATO engagement in this conflict,

04:02I guess.

04:03So this is what the Norwegian Prime Minister hope not to see.

04:08So this is clear.

04:11And he talked about a risk of escalation.

04:14Both men actually spoke of a risk of escalation, which is clear.

04:17How much is this a talking point where you are, what's happening right now in Iran?

04:24This is absolutely a talking point here as well.

04:27And, of course, there is a risk of escalation.

04:30And we saw from the press conference now that both the Prime Minister of Norway and President

04:36Macron both stated very clearly that it was illegal and that the diplomatic solution is

04:44to be preferred.

04:45Even though this is a very difficult question for them, they actually said it, both of them.

04:49And I think that is quite important because there is clearly a risk of escalation, all

04:56depending on how Iran will respond, of course.

05:01Emmanuel Macron at one point talking about the territorial integrity.

05:05We can't argue for the territorial integrity of Ukraine.

05:08And then, paraphrasing here, fudge it when it comes to other places.

05:13And I guess a lot of that focus is on the shifting sense just two days before this NATO summit.

05:22From what we hear, Pernil, there is just going to be a very brief reference to Russia's aggressive stance

05:32that will come out of the final communique from this NATO summit.

05:36Your thoughts on this?

05:40Well, if that will be the case, I think that is very problematic.

05:44Because, of course, for European security, it is the war in Ukraine that is the kind of the main thing.

05:52And, of course, now we have this situation in the Middle East.

05:59But still, I mean, yeah, it is very complicated.

06:03But I think it will be unfortunate for Europe if Ukraine is not still on the top of the agenda of NATO.

06:11And I'm not so sure that that will be the final outcome.

06:14We will see.

06:15Most of the allies will make sure that Ukraine will still be the main topic, I think,

06:23because that is what European security is mostly concerned about.

06:27Norway, which shares a border with Russia above the Arctic Circle.

06:30You heard that sales pitch by the French president for frigates to be sold to Oslo.

06:39Let me ask you, can France be present on all fronts?

06:42The same Emmanuel Macron a few weeks ago was talking about France's role in the Pacific.

06:47We have a defense budget that's struggling to catch up.

06:51Do you see the French being more present than they are currently in Norwegian waters,

06:57as was endorsed by the prime minister there?

07:00Yeah, I actually see that because we have seen that from French defense policy for some time now,

07:09that it actually has shifted in an orientation more towards the high north

07:14and more towards kind of identifying Russia as the main threat for European security

07:19and also for French security.

07:21So I think it is possible, very possible, that France would be more engaged in this region.

07:30We already know that they are sailing more in the north.

07:35And of course, now they want to sell frigates.

07:38So, of course, this is also a lot of the purpose behind this meeting, I guess,

07:44that Norway would make a decision on procurement of frigates in 2025.

07:49But I think actually there is in the interest of France also to cooperate more closely with Norway.

07:56And of course, for Norway to cooperate more closely with France,

07:58it's important now that the American security guarantee is less of a certain thing

08:08in this new security situation.

08:11Norway has traditionally had much more closer security partnerships with both the UK,

08:18now more recently also with Germany, but less so with France.

08:24As the president also said, it has been 41 years since the French president visited Norway.

08:29So this is quite the thing.

08:32Events moving fast.

08:33Pernille Rieger, many thanks for joining us from Oslo.

08:36I want to thank as well Angela Diffley from our International Affairs Desk.

08:40Again, both the French president and the Norwegian prime minister

08:43talking of the strikes on Iran as a violation of international law.

08:50Let's go.

08:51Let's go.

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