00:00Jason, the jury found Karen Reed not guilty on murder and manslaughter.
00:08Was it because they had reasonable doubt or because they thought she was innocent?
00:16So I think for the jurors, there's a mix of some people thinks that she was definitely innocent.
00:23And the other people, there was a lot of reasonable doubt, at least to where you can't, we didn't want to convict her.
00:30That's really interesting.
00:31So could you give me a breakdown there?
00:34Roughly what percentage of the jury felt she was innocent?
00:39I mean, I can only speak for myself.
00:41I think that she was innocent.
00:43It's hard to tell exactly what people think deep down.
00:47There was a lot of things thrown at us, you know, of evidence.
00:50So it's hard to tell what's really.
00:54So you say in your head she was innocent.
00:58Does that mean you think she was framed by people inside that house?
01:03It doesn't necessarily mean that.
01:05I don't know what happened.
01:06I don't know what happened to John.
01:09Really, I was only presented a limited scope of what happened at the night.
01:14And I could only base my opinion off of the evidence that was shown in the courtroom.
01:19So I don't really know if there was a cover-up or not.
01:23I know that's the big conspiracy about it, but I don't really know.
01:26All I know is that there was a lot of holes in the investigation.
01:31Whether they were deliberate holes or not deliberate holes, it's kind of hard for me sitting back to know that, you know, what actually happened.
01:40So what was the feeling of the jury?
01:43Because Alan Jackson and the other lawyers raised the issue that she was framed by cops and that they would have turned that house upside down if they really wanted to do an honest investigation.
01:56And that he was not hit by a car, he was attacked in that house, bitten by a dog, and then put outside to frame her.
02:06Did people on the jury or some of them buy that argument?
02:11I think some of them bought that argument.
02:13It's just hard to tell, though, because whether or not we think that there was malicious intent, we were only presented with the facts that they didn't go into the house.
02:22So, you know, there's an example of reasonable doubt.
02:26So, like, there's other examples of reasonable doubt.
02:31So even if you want to completely buy into the theory or not, that wasn't what we were tasked with.
02:38We were tasked with finding, convicting, or, you know, deciding on this person's fate based on the proof and the evidence that the Commonwealth was able to present.
02:48And, you know, there was a lot of holes in the investigation.
02:52Yet, you went many steps beyond that because you say, in your view, she was innocent.
03:01What compels you to think that?
03:02Well, one thing that I think that compels me is we did a lot of review of the tapes, and it seemed to me that the videos that we could see from the car after the alleged incident happened, that when we could see the taillight, it was lit up red where it shouldn't just have been red.
03:24So that leaves me a conclusion of, well, how come it's red in this video after the alleged, you know, collision happened, and then it's, you know, it's not, it doesn't have any red pieces where it should be red.
03:40So, in other words, you do not believe that SUV made contact with John O'Keefe?
03:45I don't believe that the SUV collided with John O'Keefe.
03:49What was the initial vote with the jury when you first took your vote?
03:54We didn't do an initial straw poll.
03:56The judge recommended to us in the courtroom that that is not a good way to do it.
04:01We broke down, what we did is we broke down each charge, and we went from top to bottom and discussed everything thoroughly and, you know, did our best to do right by, you know,
04:14the Karen Reed and the Commonwealth.
04:17Was there a division initially?
04:19Yeah, there was a division.
04:23But that's what we're there to deliberate and talk about all the evidence.
04:26There was two months of us sitting there, them throwing all this information at us, us absorbing the information, going home, thinking about it, reviewing it in our heads, not, you know, and we finally, we get to the deliberations, and now we have an opportunity to discuss.
04:43Some people went into the deliberations, and they didn't, they were still unsure after two months, and that makes sense because there was a lot of things going on.
04:55There's a lot of information.
04:57How much can you weigh one thing or another thing over, you know?
05:01Yeah.
05:01What about jurors who felt initially she was guilty?
05:07Were there any of them?
05:10Yeah.
05:10There were a few jurors that think that, that, that had, that had thought that initially when they went into the deliberations, that's, that was their standpoint.
05:20And that's what we, that's what we were there to do, to talk through the, talk through all that and, and bring up every single piece of evidence, you know?
05:30Is there, is there an angle of reasonable doubt to where we're not really sure?
05:35Like, are you really sure?
05:37Are you 100% or are you 99.9%?
05:41You know, if you're that 99%, you know, we can't convict you.
05:47What brought the ones who felt she was guilty over to the not guilty side?
05:52Was there anything in particular that seemed to resonate with them?
05:56You know, it's hard to tell from my position.
05:59You'd have to ask them about it.
06:01But in my opinion, I think it was just due to the, the poor investigation.
06:05There's just too many holes.
06:07And, you know, it's, it's, it's hard to prove that she, that the collision happened.
06:13So if there's reasonable doubt that that happened or that there, there may have been foul play, you know, if there's room for that, then it's hard to come to a guilty verdict.
06:26What happened when the jury initially said they had a verdict and then said, oops, no, we don't.
06:33And then 15 minutes later, they said, oh, we do.
06:36What happened there?
06:37That actually is kind of interesting.
06:39So the, um, the envelope, it was sealed and it's, and it's locked away.
06:45It'll never be looked at.
06:46Um, but on what the, everything on that initial slip was the same as the, the slip that, um,
06:55was presented.
06:58But why did they pull it back?
07:01The pulling the back was for the, uh, OUI charge.
07:05The deal was driving under the influence, essentially drunk driving.
07:08Yes.
07:09Driving under the influence.
07:10We think we, in our deliberations, we had decided there was enough evidence and proof that she was driving under the influence.
07:19And when, yeah.
07:23So, um, how did the defense do?
07:27How did the lawyers do in your view?
07:29Her, her lawyers.
07:31Uh, for her lawyers specifically, I think they all did.
07:34Um, I think, I think that all the, all the lawyers on both sides did a really good job.
07:40Um, you know, they presented their case as well.
07:44Um, the police, you say the investigation was poor.
07:49Um, the defense said it was more than poor.
07:52It was corrupt.
07:52And they pointed to the lead detective who had been fired, didn't testify in your trial.
07:58Did that have an impact?
07:59And did you think it was a corrupt police investigation?
08:03Do I think it was a corrupt police investigation?
08:07I don't know.
08:09There's no way for me to know.
08:10I can't, I wasn't there.
08:13There was just, um, there was holes in the case that left for reasonable doubt.
08:17I think they could have checked some boxes or, or, you know, done some things differently.
08:23But do I know that they were corrupt?
08:26Absolutely not.
08:27I don't know that there was any corruption going on, but do I know that there wasn't
08:32enough proof or evidence secured by the police to convict Karen Reed?
08:39Absolutely not.
08:41There was no, there was not.
08:43Fair to say that your view was that, um, her SUV did not make contact with O'Keefe.
08:52Therefore, she did not kill him, but you don't know how he died.
08:57I would say that's fair to say, I don't know how John O'Keefe died.
09:00And I do not believe that there was a collision between the SUV and John O'Keefe.
09:06Did all of the hoopla around the case, the people outside, did it give you comfort in reaching
09:14a verdict like this, that you saw there was a community behind your point of view or was
09:20it irrelevant?
09:21Honestly, that made the pressure a lot harder and it did not give me comfort.
09:26It, uh, it made it a lot harder to, to, to block out everything and come to a, uh, uh, decision.
09:35Why, why did it make it harder?
09:38It made it harder because all of the eyes are on us on, uh, we were told we're the most important
09:43people in the courtroom and, you know, they keep us away from the crowds of, of people in the front
09:49of the courthouse, but we drop, we do see them.
09:52Um, and I don't think that all the, having all those people swayed me to go either way.
09:59We were only tasked with looking at the evidence.
10:01We have to, we were 12 jurors.
10:04We had to back up how we felt in this, um, in the, for our decision.
10:08And we couldn't let any outside at any outside factors, her punishment.
10:14We couldn't, we couldn't factor any of that.
10:16We had to look at the evidence that was presented to us, absorb it, really understand it.
10:21And, and see if there's any reasonable doubt.
