- 4 days ago
As the conflict between Israel and Iran entered the fifth day on Tuesday, US President Donald Trump left the G7 Summit in Canada a day early to rush back to Washington.
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00:00:00Good evening, hello and welcome. You're with the news today, your primetime destination where you get the news, the newsmakers, the talking points, news without the noise.
00:00:09Israel versus Iran, are we bracing for a real end as Donald Trump is calling it?
00:00:16What will that end be? A full-scale war imminent in West Asia or a dramatic ceasefire?
00:00:23Also, more nightmares for all those travelling on Dreamliners. Several flights have been grounded, panic or simply playing safe?
00:00:34We'll tell you more on the news today. But first, as always, it's time for the 9 headlines at 9.
00:00:42Series of blasts rocked Tehran in a fresh escalation by Israel.
00:00:47Tel Aviv warns of Saddam Hussein-like fate for Supreme Leader Khamenei. Issues warning to civilians to evacuate Tehran immediately.
00:00:59G7 nations back Israel's right to self-defense. Donald Trump leaves the event early, keeps everyone guessing.
00:01:07Says wants a real end to the conflict. He's not pushing for a ceasefire yet.
00:01:127 Air India Dreamliners grounded today over operational failures after stricter pre-flight checks mandated.
00:01:24Safety concerns put spotlight on Boeing and Air India.
00:01:30New video of the Ahmedabad plane crash aftermath. Resident doctors jump from balconies to escape blaze from crashed aircraft.
00:01:39Park Army Chief Asim Munir is in Washington, D.C.
00:01:47Pakistani residents there raise chants calling Munir a mass murderer.
00:01:52Hold posters saying democracy dies when guns speak.
00:01:58Supreme Court backs actor Kamal Hassan slams Karnataka government for failing to prevent a threat against his film over a language row.
00:02:06Slams a delay in the state-governed response.
00:02:12Akal Takt head Granti justifies Punjab YouTubers' murders as those who defame religion by indulging in vulgarity must be stopped.
00:02:21Influencer was known for bold content on social media.
00:02:26Crime scene recreated with victim Raja Raghuvanshi's wife and three alleged killers in Meghalaya.
00:02:32Police say evidence points to Sonam as the plot mastermind.
00:02:39Monsoon showers across the country now.
00:02:42A pre-monsoon shower in the national capital brings relief from the heat wave.
00:02:46Water logging in several parts of Delhi.
00:02:49The west coast of India also receiving heavy rains.
00:02:52But the story that's breaking this evening.
00:03:21Israel has now issued a big warning to Iran's supreme leader Khamenei.
00:03:27Israel has claimed Saddam-like fate awaits the Iranian supreme leader.
00:03:33Several explosions have been reported in west and central Tehran.
00:03:37Israel says Iran's surface-to-surface missile launchers are being targeted.
00:03:42Iran is claiming civilian areas have been targeted.
00:03:45So clearly at the moment the war is escalating by the day.
00:03:50Those are the images that we are getting of Iran's missile launchers now being targeted amidst a threat that Israel is issuing that they could take out Khamenei, Ali Khamenei, the supreme leader.
00:04:02Remember, the chief of staff, the acting chief of staff of the Iranian army has also been reportedly taken out or so claimed the Israeli armed forces.
00:04:13So clearly Israel now stepping up its offensive on Tehran.
00:04:19Those are the images that are coming in from the Iranian capital.
00:04:23For the fifth day in a row, Iran and Israel continuing to be at war with each other.
00:04:28Israel making no bones of its stated intent to effect now a regime change in Iran.
00:04:33With the United States reiterating its demand that Iran must give up its nuclear program completely, time may be running out for Tehran.
00:04:42Will there be a ceasefire or is an all-out war now inevitable?
00:04:47That's going to be our big question.
00:04:49Take a look at our top story.
00:04:51Israel and Iran are on the brink of a big escalation.
00:05:06Two loud explosions were heard in Tehran on Tuesday morning.
00:05:20Israel has warned that it will attack most significant targets in Tehran today.
00:05:25Latest images released by Israel showed strikes on F-14 fighter jets in a Tehran airport.
00:05:36Apart from strikes on trucks containing weapons and launchers on the way to Tehran.
00:05:43Israel has also asserted that its decision not to target Iran's nuclear facility in Fardau so far does not mean it won't in the future.
00:05:52Israel has dealt another deadly blow to Iran after laying majority of Iranian military top brass to waste just days ago.
00:06:02The Israeli Defense Forces eliminated Ali Shadmani, Iran's newly appointed wartime chief of staff.
00:06:09Shadmani was the most senior military commander and the closest figure to Iranian Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei.
00:06:15His predecessor Hossein Salami was killed just days ago by Israel in a similar strike.
00:06:25Tonight, following accurate intelligence received by the intelligence branch, we eliminated Ali Shadmani, the war chief of staff, the most senior military commander of the Iranian regime.
00:06:36Shadmani only managed to hold the position for four days and we also eliminated him.
00:06:43We will pursue our enemies again and again using advanced intelligence capabilities, exploiting opportunities, air superiority and complex operational planning.
00:06:54Israeli Defense Minister Israel Katz, meanwhile, has issued an open warning to Iran's Supreme Leader Khamenei, claiming he could end up like Saddam Hussein.
00:07:03I warned the Iranian dictator from continuing to commit war crimes and fire missiles at Israeli citizens.
00:07:11He should remember what happened to the dictator in the country neighboring Iran, who took this path against the state of Israel.
00:07:18We will continue today as well to operate against regime targets and military targets in Tehran,
00:07:24as we did against the propaganda and incitement broadcasting authority.
00:07:28Israeli fighter jets also launched a wave of targeted airstrikes deep into Iranian territory,
00:07:37including a shocking strike on Iran's state broadcaster headquarters in Tehran during a live transmission.
00:07:43The anchor on air was seen scrambling for cover as fire engulfed the studio.
00:07:54Flames consumed the building and the aftermath was nothing short of catastrophic.
00:07:59A senior reporter for Iran's IRIB news agency stood outside the burning headquarters with hands stained with blood.
00:08:14This appalling attack constitute a blatant war crime and a direct assault on press freedom.
00:08:28The Israeli regime has once again demonstrated that it is the foremost enemy of truth.
00:08:33It holds the disgraceful record of being the world's leading perpetrator of violence against journalists and media professionals.
00:08:46Iran too is hitting back with a wave of ballistic missile strikes on Israel,
00:08:50and Iranian Defense Ministry spokesman has claimed that Israel will be defeated in the coming days.
00:08:56The Zionist enemy does not have the possibility of resisting and enduring a long war,
00:09:04and therefore, this regime will be defeated in this imposed war.
00:09:17Are Israel and Iran now at a point of no return?
00:09:22Bureau Report, India Today.
00:09:26And U.S. President Donald Trump left the G7 meeting abruptly from Calgary to return to Washington, D.C.,
00:09:35where he is now talking tough against Iran.
00:09:39Listen in to what Donald Trump had to say.
00:09:44They'd like to talk, but they should have done that before.
00:09:48I had 60 days, and they had 60 days, and on the 61st day, I said,
00:09:53we don't have a deal.
00:09:54They have to make a deal.
00:09:56And it's painful for both parties, but I'd say Iran is not winning this war.
00:10:02And they should talk, and they should talk immediately before it's too late.
00:10:07I've spoken to everybody.
00:10:08What will you say?
00:10:09Israel is doing very well, as you probably noticed.
00:10:14I gave Iran 60 days, and I gave Iran 60 days, and they said, no.
00:10:21And the 61st, you saw what happened.
00:10:24Day 61.
00:10:25So I'm in constant touch, and as I've been saying, I think a deal will be signed, or something will happen, but a deal will be signed.
00:10:35And I think Iran is foolish not to sign one.
00:10:38Iran basically is at the negotiating table.
00:10:40They want to make a deal.
00:10:41And as soon as I leave here, we're going to be doing something.
00:10:45But I have to leave here.
00:10:47I have, you know, this commitment.
00:10:48I have a lot of commitments.
00:10:49I have a commitment to a lot of countries.
00:10:51I want to see no nuclear weapon in Iran, and we're well on our way to making sure that happens.
00:10:56So as Donald Trump also gets into the act, the big question is, what is the real end now of this Iran-Israel conflict?
00:11:07Will the United States now back Israel's bid to eliminate Khamenei if they decide to target the supreme leader of Iran and effect a regime change?
00:11:17What is Trump's game plan behind his sudden G7 exit?
00:11:21Is a full-scale war imminent in West Asia, as many analysts are fearing?
00:11:26I'm joined by special guests now.
00:11:28Glenn Carl is former CIA officer, joins me from Boston.
00:11:32Elit Baral is former director, Israel National Security Council, joins me from Tel Aviv.
00:11:37Zameer Abbas Jafri is professor at the Al-Mustafa International University in Qom in Iran.
00:11:43I appreciate all my guests joining me at this moment.
00:11:46I want to come to you, Zameer Abbas, for a moment because I know you're in an area where we don't know whether the network will last for a long time.
00:11:53It appears at the moment Iran is running out of time and options.
00:11:58Would I be right in saying that Iran is now under pressure to come to the dialogue table sooner rather than later?
00:12:04Thank you, Rajdeep, for having me on the show.
00:12:09First of all, it's completely Western propaganda, Western copy-paste media narrative which is being pushed.
00:12:21What had happened last night in Haifa was unbelievable.
00:12:27The thing which, the claim that Israel had that it is invincible, it was broken.
00:12:32All the international media channels were forced to stop reporting live what had happened in Haifa.
00:12:42So, Iran has completely hit at very important positions inside Israel, whether it's the headquarter of the military, of the IDF, whether it's the Mossad Center which it hit yesterday, whether it's the Wiseman Institute which creates the robotic things for the war.
00:13:01So, Iran has completely attacked Israel and Israel is in no position, 90% of its population is in bunkers.
00:13:08So, you know, you're saying that even as I'm playing the visuals of Tehran, even as we are told that Tehran is also suffering bomb after bomb,
00:13:19even as there are reports that people, more commanders have been eliminated by the Israelis,
00:13:27and Israel could even target Khamenei, the supreme leader, and you're telling me that Iran is winning this war.
00:13:34Rajdeep, when a war starts, okay, when an aggressive country starts a war, which is according to all international laws, were illegal.
00:13:46When they attack at 3.40 at a.m., and they kill all the commanders of a country, they kill the nuclear scientists.
00:13:54Let me be very clear, these nuclear scientists were sleeping with their families and their children and their wife, and they killed all of them with the entire family.
00:14:02Just one building that was attacked called, the name of that building was Chamran Tower.
00:14:06There were 60 people killed out of them, 15 were children, okay?
00:14:11According to all international law, Article 15 of the United Nations, it is completely illegal for Israel to carry out that such a war.
00:14:19I was also very surprised, Rajdeep, for you as such a professional journalist,
00:14:24and India today being a very professional brand, glorifying killing of journalists in Iran.
00:14:32I'm not, I'm not glorifying anything, but we are, you know, the fact is we are at war.
00:14:37I just were, you know, your two countries are at war.
00:14:39We are, in war, as you know.
00:14:41You were glorifying killing of journalists inside Iran.
00:14:44I'm only reporting the facts.
00:14:45The way it was projected.
00:14:46I'm not glorifying it, I'm reporting the facts.
00:14:50No, that was not a fact.
00:14:51The fact was that the journalists were killed.
00:14:53The question, as a journalist, it should be asked, was why were the journalists attacked?
00:15:00Why was the, why was a media center attacked?
00:15:03And the girl who was sitting there, she was a brave woman.
00:15:07When the bombs were flying all over, she said that this is the voice of truth, and you cannot kill the voice of truth.
00:15:14She went offline till the last moment she was standing, and when she came back after five minutes, she said this is an attack on freedom of expression, freedom of speech, and those people who want us, the brave people, Iranians, to solve, this will not, this is not going to happen.
00:15:30Okay, whether freedom of speech and expression exists in Iran, I'll come back to you.
00:15:33I will give you enough time, but I want to also hear the other side.
00:15:36Helit Baral, former director of Israel National Security Council, joins us.
00:15:40You're in Tel Aviv, you've heard a guest from Iran saying, look, this war perhaps will have no winners because both sides are hitting each other with their missiles.
00:15:50Do you go with that theory that it is wrong?
00:15:53And he suggests, as many do, that Israel is the aggressor this time, not Iran.
00:15:59Israel is the one which has pushed Iran into a situation where they have to retaliate.
00:16:06Can you hear me, Helit Baral?
00:16:14Helit, can you hear me?
00:16:17Okay, we'll try and get, can you hear me, ma'am?
00:16:23Okay, let me try and reconnect with her.
00:16:26In the meantime, I'm going to Glenn Kyle.
00:16:28Glenn, amidst all of this, is the U.S. role.
00:16:31We've seen what Donald Trump has said today.
00:16:33He wants a real end to the war.
00:16:35What does this real end really mean?
00:16:45Glenn, can you hear me?
00:16:47I can hear you, yes.
00:16:49Yeah.
00:16:49You know, the U.S. is becoming an increasingly key player at the moment.
00:16:55What the U.S. will do next?
00:16:56Donald Trump saying he doesn't just want to ceasefire, he wants a real end.
00:16:59What does this real end mean?
00:17:01Is the U.S. now itching to get into Iran, maybe target some of their underground nuclear facilities with bunker bombs?
00:17:09Do you believe that's a real possibility?
00:17:10Well, it's an important question, but the problem is that Washington, meaning Donald Trump, doesn't really know what he wants to do.
00:17:19And the advisors that he has, to whom he doesn't really listen, are seriously divided in what they think should be done.
00:17:28So initially, Trump was pushing for this new version of the JPCA, the nuclear agreement between the U.S., the West, and Iran to limit their nuclear programs.
00:17:42But now Israel has changed the equation and made possibly more conceivable.
00:17:51And the more would be the complete elimination of Iran's nuclear program.
00:17:55But Trump doesn't know, and he likes to bluster, but he doesn't want to involve the U.S. in a war.
00:18:00And many of his advisors realize that a war in Iran would make Afghanistan and Iraq, or America's experiences in both of those countries, small potatoes compared to what the Iranian long-term prospects would be.
00:18:16So he doesn't really know, and he plays it by the day, and he doesn't really care so long as he thinks that day-to-day it makes him look good.
00:18:23Given what we've just heard from you there, Helit Bareil, former Director, Israel National Security Council, maybe you can hear us now.
00:18:33Is Israel, is this war now Israel's war, or is Israel now looking to the United States to join in the war and target nuclear installations?
00:18:45And is it about nuclear installations now, or regime change?
00:18:48There's talk of Israel trying to target the supreme leader of Iran.
00:18:53So, I don't think it's because Israel's war alone really, because of the...
00:19:01We are having a huge problem with your audio, which we need to try and get fixed.
00:19:06Let me try and fix your audio.
00:19:07Remember, these are parts of the moment of the world where there are huge network issues.
00:19:13So we are going to try and get that fixed once again.
00:19:15But, Glenn Carl, meanwhile, you tell us, you said that Donald Trump is changing his mind day by day.
00:19:23Every morning he wakes up and decides what he's going to do next.
00:19:26But what's your sense?
00:19:28Is the United States itching to get into a conflict?
00:19:32Is Donald Trump itching to get into a conflict?
00:19:34Or will the advisors around him, who don't want Donald Trump to spark off another war, be able to prevail over him?
00:19:41I'm not sure that he wants to get...
00:19:45He, Trump, wants to get involved in a conflict militarily either.
00:19:49But, as I said, and as I think our colleague in Israel was probably starting to say, the equation is changing.
00:19:57And whereas Netanyahu has long spoken, and the Americans, about the Iranian nuclear program, and that's an important issue, certainly an existential one for Israel, now to have long-term success, strategic success, really implies the change of the Iranian regime.
00:20:16If one doesn't do that, then one has then probably succeeded in blowing up a lot of buildings and killed a lot of people.
00:20:23But if you don't change the nature of the regime, which partially defines itself by its hostility to Israel and its desire to have the capability, at least, of nuclear weapons, because states view nuclear weapons as inoculation from a regime change or great power invasion, then if you don't change that, the equation remains fundamentally the same.
00:20:50I mean, Israel will have bought itself medium-term security, but not change the fundamental equation.
00:20:56So now I think regime change may have been, and perhaps should have been, from the beginning, the strategic objective of Israel, if it's that coherent, and possibly the United States.
00:21:07Otherwise, we're going to create chaos at the benefit of medium-term security for Israel.
00:21:12Glenn, just to push you for a moment before I go to hell, the fact is, whenever United States has pushed for regime change across the world, it's only caused more chaos.
00:21:22We've seen across the world, from Afghanistan to Libya to Sudan to different parts of the world, United States pushes for regime change, it leads to even more chaos.
00:21:31Well, that's a fundamental point.
00:22:01than most others.
00:22:02So, you raise a fundamentally important point, that a regime change would be fraught with all sorts of unpredictable possibilities.
00:22:16You know, Halit Barayal, we'll try a third time.
00:22:18Is that what Israel now is gunning for?
00:22:20Forget nuclear installations, it's now about regime change.
00:22:23And that throws up all kinds of dangerous possibilities, including a clear violation of Iran's sovereignty.
00:22:31Well, first of all, I disagree with that completely.
00:22:34To say forget nuclear installations is completely outside the scope of what Israeli interests are.
00:22:41Israel has been saying for years that it will not accept a nuclear threat from Iran.
00:22:47It will not accept a nuclear military capability from Iran.
00:22:51That's what this operation is about.
00:22:53That's what it has been about, in addition, of course, to taking care of the ballistic missile capabilities of Iran, which have been used against us over the last few days quite massively, and must be dealt with and released.
00:23:07I hear this talk about regime change.
00:23:10I think it is a very strong notion here that it's not our job, it's not our responsibility.
00:23:18I think many people, certainly here in Israel, but many people in the region, and certainly a lot of people in Iran, if not the majority of the people of Iran, would be very happy to see this terrible regime gone.
00:23:28But that is the responsibility of that nation, and it's also within the capability of that nation.
00:23:34We saw what happened around the terrible, terrible protests with Masa Aminai, and the kind of prices that the Iranian public was paying to protest and to stand up to the regime.
00:23:45And I have a lot of faith in those abilities.
00:23:48But that is not an Israeli issue.
00:23:52That's not the Israeli goal.
00:23:53You know, you're saying, Halit, you're saying that, but it is your Israeli defense minister who's saying that Khamenei could meet a Saddam Hussein-like end.
00:24:02So it's Israel which is now seemingly, after saying this was about nuclear installations or ensuring that Iran doesn't have the capacity to build a nuclear bomb, making it possibly also about regime change.
00:24:17Again, I don't believe that is the case at all.
00:24:21I agree with you that that was a very, very sour statement from the minister of defense.
00:24:27It's not his first one.
00:24:28I can't say much to defend that.
00:24:30I look at actions more than words, and I see that those people who were taken out are people that have to do directly with Iran's military capabilities, missile industries, nuclear facilities.
00:24:41We've taken out a lot of people who are responsible for that, not touched the political echelon.
00:24:46So that's where I stand on this and what I think is the goal.
00:24:50Don't forget, we're on the fifth day of the operation.
00:24:53As far as Israel is concerned, there's still a wide bank of targets that have to do with missiles and nuclear capabilities that we still haven't approached, despite the fact that we've had great success over the first days of this operation.
00:25:07And going back to the United States, because I missed that part, I just want to say it's basically a choice between two things.
00:25:13I don't know what Donald Trump will decide.
00:25:16I don't think anybody can say what he will decide.
00:25:18That's part of what turns him into the president that he is.
00:25:22He makes his own decisions.
00:25:23But he has put two very clear options on the table more than once.
00:25:28One is Iran comes to the table with a real compromise, with a real willingness to give up those components that are threatening the region, Israel and the world.
00:25:40Or it will have to adhere and absorb more than just the Israeli strike.
00:25:46So what you're saying, this is a prolonged conflict, which could take days, if not weeks, from what you're saying.
00:25:53This is a...
00:25:55Am I correct, broadly?
00:25:57It could, or it could be settled through political, diplomatic venues, but those require very strong compromises from Iran.
00:26:07This is the stance not only of Israel, of the United States.
00:26:10If you look at what happened in the IAA at the Board of Governors meeting and the decision to start referring Iran to the Security Council,
00:26:19the snapback sanctions that very soon will start rolling into the process will have to start rolling soon, the stance of those E3 countries.
00:26:30We see that there's a very wide consensus that Iran has overstepped on this issue and that this cannot continue to be the case.
00:26:39It saddens me that Israel once again has to shoulder this burden operationally.
00:26:47But I am heartened by the fact that it is diplomatically and internationally accepted that the reality of...
00:26:55You seem to suggest it's almost as if Israel is on a moral crusade.
00:26:59Surely killing of civilians, targeting TV stations, moving from one war to another.
00:27:06One day Gaza, one day Iran, one day Lebanon.
00:27:09Is that a moral crusade out here?
00:27:11Is this some moral crusade where Israel believes it can have the nuclear weapons,
00:27:17but can have a nuclear monopoly in the Middle East, but no one else can have it?
00:27:22Let me put it this way.
00:27:24You're talking about morality and crusades and so on.
00:27:27For us, this is not something to do with any kind of religious issue.
00:27:32I don't like this word crusade.
00:27:34It has nothing to do with national security interests.
00:27:37Israel is defending its national security interests.
00:27:40When somebody, we learned many times in history, and once again on October 7th,
00:27:45when someone promises us that they are coming to annihilate us,
00:27:49we believe their intentions.
00:27:51And we're not going to allow that someone who orchestrated October 7th,
00:27:55which is Iran, to also hold nuclear weapons and the capabilities to deliver them against our country.
00:28:02You can think that it's a crusade or whatnot.
00:28:04I don't think any other country in that position would stand by and allow it.
00:28:09But what I am saying is, not only this is a very clear Israeli national interest,
00:28:14which is why you're seeing the support that you're seeing,
00:28:16this is a regional interest and this is the interest of the world.
00:28:19Mind you, Iranian missiles can also reach the continent of Europe.
00:28:23In a way, Zamir Abbas Jafri, that was the stated Israeli position that we heard very well articulated by my Israeli guest.
00:28:36Your response, is Iran, is the mood in Iran on the street in any way?
00:28:41I had an Iranian activist who said, people in Iran believe enough is enough,
00:28:46that they would also, there is a large section that would also perhaps like a regime change,
00:28:52or do you believe they will now consolidate behind the supreme leader and the clerics?
00:28:57Rajseep, I'm really surprised the way the questions are presented.
00:29:05It's completely the Western narrative.
00:29:07Let me put some facts in front of you.
00:29:10It will help you to make better decisions.
00:29:13First of all, when the Friday attack started in the morning,
00:29:16the same day, there was Friday prayers.
00:29:19And after Friday prayers, millions of people all across Iran, I was one of them, in Qum,
00:29:25they came out after Friday prayers in support of the government,
00:29:28and they came out against Israel and against the aggression that Israel has put Iran on
00:29:37and forced a war on Iran.
00:29:39So the mood in Iran is very clearly of unity and united with the government.
00:29:45And there are enough videos.
00:29:46I mean, if you want, I'll share my personal videos, which I've taken from my phone,
00:29:50where there are millions of people out there in the streets of Qum saying they support the government.
00:29:56So this Western narrative of regime change, what is regime?
00:29:59Why are you calling a state which is official government, which has democracy,
00:30:07which is in the United Nations?
00:30:08Why are you using this word regime?
00:30:11Is United States a regime?
00:30:12Is India a regime?
00:30:14No, why are you using it as a regime?
00:30:15Since 1979, the fact is that you have had a particular form of government.
00:30:26You don't want to use the word regime, that's fine.
00:30:28A particular form of government.
00:30:29It's a government which has been seen to foster proxies,
00:30:32whether it's the Hezbollah, the Houthis in different parts of the Middle East,
00:30:36with the sole aim of targeting Israel.
00:30:38You bombed Israel last year.
00:30:41Missile strikes took place last year from Iran on Israel.
00:30:45The fact is, Iran cannot claim that they come into this debate with hands clean.
00:30:50Neither can Israel in my view, but neither can Iran.
00:30:52I think this is very easy, you know, when a war starts, you say both of them have problems.
00:31:00It's a very easy way to get out of it, right?
00:31:02So when Iran attacked Israel, who attacked first was the first question.
00:31:07Iran retaliated both the time.
00:31:10Iran, look, it's a 2,500-year-old civilization.
00:31:13Iran is not a country which was built like 50, 60 years ago.
00:31:16And it is not an occupying country.
00:31:19It's a country which has never attacked anybody like India.
00:31:22Like India, in 1979, Iran brought about a revolution.
00:31:27And the people of Iran and India have a lot of similarities.
00:31:30Like Mahatma Gandhi clearly said at that point of time,
00:31:33Palestine belongs to the Palestinians the same way England belongs to the English
00:31:37and France belongs to the French.
00:31:39So the revolution in Iran was a clear message to the Palestine.
00:31:43And let me tell you the issue.
00:31:44You are asking what Donald Trump will do as if they are the masters of the world
00:31:48and the rest of the world are the colonialists.
00:31:50They are there to, you know, to submit and be subservient to Americans.
00:31:54And they are the masters of the world.
00:31:56Let's get out of this Babu mentality, you know.
00:31:59Okay, I've heard you.
00:32:01Zaheer, I'm running out of time.
00:32:02I want to quick...
00:32:03I've heard you.
00:32:04You believe that Iran has the right to self-defense.
00:32:07And therefore, to suggest that regime change in itself is an assault on national sovereignty.
00:32:14I'll just get into two quick words.
00:32:16First from you, Halit, very quickly.
00:32:19It's rare to have voices from Tehra, from Iran and Israel joining us together.
00:32:24But Halit, the fact is Benjamin Netanyahu is also someone who's accused of having blood on his hands.
00:32:30Whether it's civilians in Gaza or now civilians in Iran.
00:32:33In the name of self-defense, is Israel responding to one disproportionate response after the other?
00:32:40How would you respond to those who are saying Israel cannot claim that they come into this conflict with clean hands?
00:32:46I think anybody who followed the events in the Middle East over the last two years know that the opening shot of this was the despicable massacre of civilians, children, and women in an act planned by Iran, executed by Hamas.
00:33:07When I hear that Israel attacks first in Iran, I want to make sure that we understand that we are talking about the annihilation of Ismail Haniyeh in Tehran, a leader of Hamas, in a precise way that took him out.
00:33:24And so, as a response to him being one of the planners and the executors of the October 7th massacre.
00:33:33I, as an Israeli, am not willing to apologize for any of that.
00:33:37What we saw then were two failed counterattacks by Iran in April and October of missiles, which, if you consider what happened, had basically failed.
00:33:49We saw the collapse of Hezbollah.
00:33:51We saw the collapse of Syria.
00:33:52And what we saw is the proxy network, thankfully, disappearing after decades of targeting Israel through terrorist attacks, through missile attacks, so on and so forth.
00:34:04So, again, we can go back and forth like this for a long time.
00:34:08My bottom line remains, Israel will not accept Iran holding a nuclear weapon.
00:34:15You stand there daily preaching for the annihilation of the state of Israel.
00:34:20It shall not stand.
00:34:21Okay. I want to get Glenn Carl, therefore, to get a final word.
00:34:25When you hear these voices from these two countries, is United States abandoning the role of playing any kind of global peacemaker now?
00:34:33Donald Trump simply wants to, in a way, stay out and yet hope to take the credit if there is a ceasefire tomorrow.
00:34:43Well, he's contradictory.
00:34:44I mean, he is more isolationist than any president in 80 years.
00:34:49And at the same time, he clearly wants the United States involved and to shape results internationally.
00:34:56To a large extent, he has aligned U.S. policies or acquiesced with the right wing, the ascendant dominant wing of the Israeli government.
00:35:06But I do have to say that any country that defines itself in part by an intention to destroy an entire other nation, and I'm speaking of Iran, has a lot to account for.
00:35:18And it's hard to blame Israel when it is existentially threatened from taking a step and then characterizing it as an attack that is unfair.
00:35:28That's simply not true.
00:35:29And then the last thing, claiming that the Iranian population massively supports the regime, is just delusional, since what they support is not being killed by the IRGC, which holds all the guns.
00:35:40I mean, that's just, it's insulting.
00:35:43Okay.
00:35:44I've heard three different viewpoints.
00:35:47As I said, it's rare to get voices from Iran and Israel amidst the conflict.
00:35:51I know that all of you are particularly in the Middle East in a very tough situation, so I appreciate you joining us and giving us your perspective.
00:35:59Clearly very, very different perspectives that reflect the nature of this battle, polarized battle taking place there.
00:36:06I appreciate all of you joining me here on the news today.
00:36:09Thank you so much.
00:36:10Now, meanwhile, as tensions escalate between Israel and Iran, Indian students in Tehran have been moved to the city of Qaum, approximately 148 kilometers away for their safety.
00:36:20The Indian embassy in Tehran has begun relocating the students due to the ongoing missile strikes and the deteriorating security situation.
00:36:28India has evacuated in the last 24 hours around 110 students.
00:36:33Many of them are from Jammu and Kashmir.
00:36:35Joining me now is Raheel Abbas.
00:36:38He's an Indian who's been stuck in Iran.
00:36:40Also joining me are Mohamed Shoaib and Anaf Ishaq, students stuck in Iran.
00:36:45We've been trying to get through to all of you.
00:36:47Go ahead.
00:36:49Who wants to speak first?
00:36:52Mohamed Shoaib, Anaf Ishaq, would you like to tell us where you are at the moment?
00:36:56Are you safe, completely safe?
00:36:57And are you out of Iran at the moment?
00:36:59I am Mohamed Shoaib and I'll be speaking first.
00:37:05Right now, we're in the city of Qaum in Iran.
00:37:10It's around about 150 kilometers away from Tehran.
00:37:13And we were evacuated yesterday around about 1.30 p.m.
00:37:19We left Tehran because the situation there was quite drastic and dangerous for everyone, including students who are the domestic students and the national students.
00:37:29Not just for some one person, the situation is dangerous.
00:37:33It's dangerous for all of us.
00:37:35We even saw heaps of traffic jams in the highway when we were leaving for Qaum.
00:37:39And we had to change routes two or three times because during our travel, the Qaum Tehran Highway was also attacked once by the Israeli army.
00:37:50So, Ayol, you've gone to Qaum.
00:37:53Is the plan to now get out of Iran?
00:37:55Many of students are coming now through Armenia.
00:37:58Is that the plan to get out of Iran at the moment or to stay there in Qaum?
00:38:03We hope so.
00:38:04But right now, we're in doubt for the procedure for this.
00:38:07Since the embassy isn't clearly talking to us and giving us instructions, they have just told us to remain calm and don't panic.
00:38:17And the accommodations there have been provided by the embassy also.
00:38:23Yeah, but as I said, you know, the fact is also, of course, 110 students have been evacuated.
00:38:27What has been the most difficult thing, Anah, for you all to deal with in the last few days?
00:38:32How difficult have the last few days been?
00:38:35Hi, first of all, thanks for having me.
00:38:37Over the last few days, life has drastically changed.
00:38:40Our academic schedule, it has stopped.
00:38:42It is completely on, it is on hold right now.
00:38:46Our classes have been postponed.
00:38:47Our exams have been postponed.
00:38:49Our whole academic schedule is on hold.
00:38:52So, we don't know what happens to our degree next.
00:38:54Like, we have seen the Ukraine war.
00:38:56We have seen how students had to migrate from country to country.
00:38:59They were left in lurch.
00:39:01The same, it's the same feeling.
00:39:02The uncertainty going on around.
00:39:04Okay, there is an answer.
00:39:07Rahel Abbas, you are an Indian also stuck in Iran.
00:39:11How difficult is it for all of you?
00:39:13Are you in touch with the embassy authorities?
00:39:15Have they given you full assurances on what next?
00:39:18Rahel, can you hear me?
00:39:30Yes, sir.
00:39:30I can hear you.
00:39:32What assurances have the ministry given you?
00:39:34What have they asked you to do?
00:39:37Sir, we are a hundred of people from India, which belongs from UP, Allahabad.
00:39:41And Priyag Raj, which is known as now.
00:39:44And we are stuck in Khom city, which is situated in Iran.
00:39:48And currently, we don't have any information from the embassy.
00:39:51But I have called several times and they said, like, you have to wait there.
00:39:55And just wait there and follow the instructions of Indian government embassy.
00:40:00So, we are waiting for the instructions.
00:40:02Once we'll get any instruction, we'll follow that.
00:40:04Okay, so you're still waiting for instructions.
00:40:08All of you are obviously in a very, very difficult situation.
00:40:12Our thoughts are with you.
00:40:13Our prayers are with you.
00:40:14And remember, the people of India are firmly with you.
00:40:18And we hope that you will be safe.
00:40:20So, I wish each and every one of you the very best.
00:40:23If you have any details, any concerns, remember, we'll be in touch with you constantly.
00:40:30So, please take care.
00:40:31And I hope your families who are watching you will be assured that their children are safe.
00:40:36So, thank you, Rahil, Mohamed, Shoaib and Anaf Ashaq for joining me on the show at the moment.
00:40:42Remember, they are joining us from different parts of Iran.
00:40:45Not very easy.
00:40:46Credit to our assignment team that has managed to link them all up in the last few minutes.
00:40:50Since the crash of Air India Dreamliner 171 in Ahmedabad,
00:40:54multiple Air India flights have reported mid-air technical issues in the last 24 to 48 hours.
00:41:01Several frequent flyers still grappling with shock and anxiety following the Ahmedabad crash
00:41:05are now raising serious concerns, particularly over Air India.
00:41:10The public confidence in what was once India's national carrier
00:41:14has taken a hit amidst reports of delays, of congestion and, of course, of air safety.
00:41:20In a moment, I'll be joined by Rajee Pratap Roody, Member of Parliament and himself a professional pilot.
00:41:26But first, take a look at just why there is fear and anxiety in the skies.
00:41:35Between the 12th and the 17th of June, Air India has faced an unprecedented string of incidents.
00:41:42It all started on Thursday, 12th of June, with the devastating crash of flight AI-171.
00:41:49The Ahmedabad to London flight crashed shortly after take-off.
00:41:53A total of 241 passengers and crew members lost their lives with only one survivor.
00:42:00The tragedy shook the nation and sent shockwaves through the global aviation industry.
00:42:05Several more lost their lives on the ground when the 11-year-old, ill-fated Boeing 787 aircraft
00:42:13ploughed through a medical college hostel as it crash-landed in a populated area.
00:42:20But the troubles did not end there.
00:42:23Just three days later, flight AI-819 from Delhi to Wadodra made an emergency return
00:42:29after a landing gear malfunction.
00:42:31On 16th, flight AI-315 from Hong Kong to Delhi was forced to turn back due to technical issues.
00:42:39The same day, Mumbai to Ahmedabad flight AI-2493 was cancelled due to operational problems.
00:42:47And on June 17th, three more incidents.
00:42:50San Francisco to Mumbai flight AI-180 was grounded in Kolkata after a technical fault,
00:42:57leaving passengers stranded for hours.
00:42:59Then Ahmedabad to London flight AI-159 was cancelled due to unresolved technical issues.
00:43:07In the afternoon, the London to Amritsar flight AI-170 also involving a Boeing 787 cancelled
00:43:14due to technical reasons.
00:43:17A total of seven Air India flights were cancelled on today for technical and operational reasons.
00:43:22These repeated disruptions have left thousands of passengers frustrated and anxious.
00:43:31Social media is flooded with complaints and many are now questioning Air India's commitment to safety.
00:43:37There was a technical snack and then we were all waiting in the flight we got down.
00:43:45And we were being made to wait in the airport for a long time without much information.
00:43:51So we had no, like everybody were like in one group and trying to figure out what was going on.
00:43:58With investigations underway and regulatory scrutiny intensifying, Air India faces a critical test.
00:44:08Can it restore passenger confidence or will this week mark a turning point for India's national carrier?
00:44:14For now, Air India says it is cooperating with authorities and reviewing all safety protocols.
00:44:22But for many travellers, the question remains, will they feel safe flying Air India again?
00:44:28Bureau Report, Business Today Television.
00:44:30And in news now, breaking civil aviation body, DGCA has held a meeting with the Air India CEO, Campbell Wilson.
00:44:46DGCA has cracked the whip on Air India and Air India Express amidst all that turbulence in the skies that we just reported.
00:44:54Sources telling us that the DGCA has told Air India to focus above all else on safety and passenger comfort.
00:45:00And communication, Air India has been told to tighten its flight operations and to strengthen its crisis communication.
00:45:07That's a meeting that DGCA has had with the Air India CEO, Campbell Wilson.
00:45:11To get more on that, Amit Bhadwaj, who is still in Ahmedabad, joins me.
00:45:15He tracks the ministry.
00:45:16Amit, what exactly prompted this kind of tough talk from DGCA?
00:45:22Is it the recent incidents over the last 48 hours where a number of passengers have complained about what's going on in Air India?
00:45:30Radhi, if you know, especially in context of AI-171 crash and Air India's Boeing Dreamliner fleet,
00:45:41there have been a lot of concerns around the Air India's operation.
00:45:45In the past few days, we have seen many of its flights getting either delayed or cancelled.
00:45:50And especially in light of the enhanced safety inspections that was ordered by the DGCA for specifically Boeing Dreamliner.
00:45:57This particular meeting was called in.
00:45:59So, seven specific points have been discussed in this particular meeting where Air India and Air India Express top officials were there.
00:46:06And DG, DGCA, Fares Ahmad himself for chairing this particular meeting.
00:46:10What we are given to understand that safety norms in regards to Air India's Boeing Dreamliner was primary focus.
00:46:17The Air India has been also told to ensure there is no delay in their flight.
00:46:22And if delays are happening, the passengers need to be informed accordingly as per the protocols and laws of the aviation industry.
00:46:29Moreover, it is very important out here that Air India has been asked to make sure that they have alternative arrangements in place
00:46:36if there are any maintenance related issue.
00:46:38Back to you.
00:46:40Okay.
00:46:41Amit Bhardwaj telling us what happened at that meeting.
00:46:44Appreciate you joining us.
00:46:45Let me then go across to another of our newsmakers tonight.
00:46:48I am joined by a Member of Parliament who himself is a professional pilot and flies airlines.
00:46:54Rajee Pratap Roody, BJP MP, joins me.
00:46:56Appreciate your joining us, Mr. Roody.
00:46:59Seven Air India flights cancelled today.
00:47:01Many of them Dreamliners in the aftermath of last week's tragic crash.
00:47:05There seems to be either panic in the skies or a desire to be safe at all costs.
00:47:11Would you agree there is panic in the skies at the moment given these several flights being grounded in this manner?
00:47:18Well, I really do not know the configuration of the six Air India flights.
00:47:27And if we thought there is a threat posed to the 787 Dreamliners, whether all these six or ten flights which you are mentioning,
00:47:35were they all 787 Dreamliners or whether there's also the 777s which the Air India operates?
00:47:41Most of them were Dreamliners.
00:47:42And secondly, as far as I am also aware of certain flights which were rerouted or for that matter cancelled because of the Israel-Iran attack.
00:47:54So, unless and I know exactly for the reasons and for an airline like Air India, which of course has a large fleet,
00:48:03to trigger a panic button and say that aircrafts don't go in air if there is something wrong which they cannot operate.
00:48:14Now the operator would like it like that to go in air and if they agree to fly an aircraft which is found because nothing in an aircraft is there which is not recorded,
00:48:27monitored, even remotely when you are flying or when you are operating.
00:48:31So, having said that, a captain operating a flight which could be not fit to fly is something which I cannot say,
00:48:40but unless and until I go through the records.
00:48:42Sir, you are saying you are not, you know, you want clarity on exactly why these flights were grounded.
00:48:49What we do know, Mr. Rudy, is that the DGCA today had a long meeting with the Air India management.
00:48:56They want a greater focus on safety and passenger comfort and efficiency.
00:49:01There seems, is this not a reflection of panic somewhere over the way Air India's operations are being conducted?
00:49:07There's a fear of the way Air India's operations are being conducted.
00:49:10Yes.
00:49:12So, I can tell you, I can tell you, I can tell you, DGCA is not an advisory body.
00:49:22It will not advise that, look, you are not obeying the safety technical parameters or that you have to start rethinking.
00:49:30If the flight is not fit for flying, it will not fly.
00:49:33And if the flight is fit for flying, it will fly.
00:49:35So, it's not a suggestive implication and not that till the DGCA told them certain flights were unfit to fly and they were flying.
00:49:44It can never happen in airlines business.
00:49:46There are certain laid out problems with which an aircraft can fly, which is listed, which is the procedures for there are that.
00:49:59So, there are glitches with which you can operate a flight and there are which you cannot and there are, so you cannot be an open-ended discussion that advisory was given by.
00:50:14Sir, it's not just about an advisory, you are a former Minister of Civil Aviation also.
00:50:19The DGCA today told Air India to focus, we are told, on aircraft safety and maintenance to tighten flight operations, ensure timely departures.
00:50:28As I come back to it, what is your response?
00:50:31Do you believe that Air India needs to respond to all these real concerns?
00:50:37So, thank you.
00:50:39So, thank you.
00:50:40I have taken note of all these points.
00:50:42There is no advisory as far as the technical aspect of operations is concerned because DGCA will not permit anything which is not technically fit to fly.
00:50:50These are suggestive measures, which is talking about passenger comfort, about time, about response.
00:50:57This has nothing to do with the technical operations of Air India.
00:51:00These are issues allied to what we are talking about, aircraft's capability and fitness to fly.
00:51:08So, let's not mix up two things.
00:51:10DGCA may be advising it.
00:51:12And if there are delays and if there are hiccups and there's passenger in comfort, all these are advisories which they can monitor.
00:51:18But nothing to do with the safety.
00:51:21You know, let's turn though to safety.
00:51:24You are a trained pilot.
00:51:25You fly planes.
00:51:27Data shows that India is second to none when it comes to aircraft safety.
00:51:31But there are growing concerns over the way in which rapid expansion is taking place, over the management of certain airlines.
00:51:38How confident are you that our skies are safe at the moment?
00:51:45100%.
00:51:45Absolutely.
00:51:48Nothing will go beyond the norms of operation, aircraft safety, parameters and training.
00:51:54Nothing can be compromised at any level.
00:51:56So, an accident may have happened.
00:51:58It has happened.
00:51:59It is a tragic accident.
00:52:00But two, we can – because the regulations just do not flow from the DGCA.
00:52:06We have other organizations which also control the overall airspace across the world.
00:52:11And there are – there are – the FAA also looks into it, the basics of the world flying.
00:52:18There are parameters to it.
00:52:19Cannot – a flight will not be in air if it is not meeting the standards of operations.
00:52:25And it is just not the aircraft which has to match the operation standard.
00:52:29It is the pilots and the crew and the ground maintenance and the airport and the airport facilities all have to fall on the same page for the aircraft to be in air.
00:52:38Are you saying, therefore, that flying is safer in India than anywhere across the world, Mr. Rudy?
00:52:44Is that an assurance you are giving as a former Minister of Civil Aviation?
00:52:52Well, yes.
00:52:53I will have to say that we are safe.
00:52:57The DGCA and other – whether it is Airport Authority of India or the Air Traffic Control or, for that matter, the airports or the standards of the airports or the operators themselves,
00:53:06they would endeavor to give you the safest flight.
00:53:08And in my opinion, whether it is Indigo or Air India or any other services which is in the country, matches world standards for aviation.
00:53:17And Indian aviation, which is, of course, expanding and the Indian people have a lot of faith, may have been traumatized by this accident.
00:53:24But I can assure you that aviation is – Indian aviation is the safest and the best in the world.
00:53:30And we have challenges which the government is addressing and that we should have faith in the agencies running the government,
00:53:40the operators and the people involved in the aviation industry overall.
00:53:44So we should have faith in them.
00:53:46Okay.
00:53:47You are saying we should have faith in the aviation industry.
00:53:49At the moment, clearly, that faith, Mr. Rudy, has been shaken.
00:53:53But I appreciate you joining us.
00:53:55Okay.
00:53:56We are going to take a break in a moment because we'll return then by getting you more news on what's happening in the Gulf.
00:54:04We are now told that U.S. fighter planes are moving to West Asia.
00:54:08I'll be joined by the editor of Foreign Policy, one of the world's leading foreign affairs magazines.
00:54:13But before that, my image tonight.
00:54:16With tears welling in his eyes and folded hands, Captain Sumit Sabarwal's father paid a final tribute to his son,
00:54:23the pilot of the Air India plane which crashed in Ahmedabad on June 12th.
00:54:28Mr. Sabarwal had promised his father that he would quit his job and take care of him full-time till tragedy struck.
00:54:34Our thoughts today are with the Sabarwal family and their trauma and tragedy.
00:54:40Those are the image.
00:54:41That's my image tonight.
00:54:42Do say a prayer for that family.
00:54:45We'll be back in a moment.
00:54:47The big headline in a moment, Donald Trump has called Iran to surrender.
00:55:02That's right.
00:55:02We're going to give you the big story in a moment.
00:55:05Iran has been called by Donald Trump to surrender at the moment.
00:55:10That's the big breaking news that we are getting you at the moment.
00:55:13Let's play that big breaking news that we are getting you at the moment.
00:55:17Iran has been called on to surrender is the story that's breaking at the moment.
00:55:23Donald Trump, the U.S. president, is saying that he knows where Iranian Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei is hiding.
00:55:30He says he's an easy target, but we are not going to kill him for now.
00:55:34This is now taking United States role almost directly into the conflict, even as American warships and planes are heading reportedly towards West Asia.
00:55:45Trump tweets, we now have complete and total control of the skies over Iran.
00:55:51Iran had good sky trackers and other defensive equipment and plenty of it, but it doesn't compare to American made, conceived and manufactured stuff.
00:56:01No one does it better than good old USA.
00:56:05Exclusive news coming in.
00:56:06U.S. military now moving fighter jets to the Middle East, extending deployments of warplanes to bolster defenses amidst the Israel-Iran conflict is what U.S. officials have told Reuters.
00:56:19I want to get first quick reactions from Gaurav Sawat, who's joining me from Baff in Canada, and Sandeep Unithan, who joins me here in the studio.
00:56:28First to you, Gaurav, you're where the G7 meeting is taking place.
00:56:32Donald Trump left that meeting abruptly earlier today, saying he wants a real end to the war.
00:56:37Is the real end a demand for surrender now of the Iranian regime, and is the U.S. willing to get directly involved?
00:56:49Rajdeep, this would appear to be a massive, massive escalation.
00:56:53The statement that's made by U.S. President Donald Trump that he wants the Iranian leadership to surrender.
00:56:59So far, it was only to get them to come to the talks table, negotiate and agree to what the West wanted or what the United States and Israel wanted.
00:57:08But now getting them to surrender, and surrender actually means abandon their nuclear program in its entirety, 0.1, 0.2, not even enrich uranium to 60% in Iran.
00:57:21And Iran is sticking to its guns that it should have the capability to at least enrich uranium for non-military grade, you know, when it's 90% and above its military grade.
00:57:3260% is for civilian nuclear use, and they're open to all sorts of international scrutiny, but America says nothing doing.
00:57:40In fact, Israel very systematically pounded the entire air defense system, the airfields, Ishfahan very extensively, and Natanz, which were known nuclear sites.
00:57:51It's the Fordos site where American assistance is required, which is where the B-2 bombers and the GBU-57 bunker busters, and those are bombs that can go 60 meters deep or at least 40 meters deep and then cause massive detonation.
00:58:08Those are the kinds of hardware that Israel is looking at.
00:58:12Will America actually provide that, considering the B-2 bombers are on their way to the Diego Garcia base?
00:58:19You have three aircraft carrier battle groups moving into the Indo-Pacific, more fighter jets are moving into Central Command or U.S. Central Command.
00:58:26So it all appears, if it's posturing, it's massive posturing, if it's beyond posturing, then it's trouble for Iran in the next 24 to 48 hours, Rajdeep.
00:58:37Kandeep Unitan, what do you, Gaurav is saying it could be posturing to get Iran to the negotiating table and completely abandon its nuclear program,
00:58:47or it could be the Americans deciding to join hands with the Israelis in striking at Iran.
00:58:52What's the sense given the kind of movements we are seeing of fighter jets and ships moving towards the Gulf,
00:59:01even as we're getting news about sirens being sounded across Israel because of more ballistic missile attacks by Iran?
00:59:08Is Iran getting more desperate?
00:59:10Well, absolutely, Rajdeep.
00:59:11And, you know, there is a third alternative course of action to what you just suggested.
00:59:16That is possibly that Donald Trump is moving all these forces into the Arabian Sea, into Saudi Arabia,
00:59:23those massive movements of fighter aircraft and tankers, possibly to prevent any attacks on U.S. servicemen.
00:59:29He's mentioned that in one of his three tweets.
00:59:31His first tweet is, of course, unconditional surrender.
00:59:33We are still trying to decipher what he means by unconditional surrender,
00:59:37the surrender of the regime or the end to its nuclear weapons program.
00:59:39But he's also mentioned in one of his tweets that there will be serious action,
00:59:43there will be serious repercussions if U.S. servicemen are targeted.
00:59:47And there's something like 50,000 U.S. servicemen in bases across West Asia.
00:59:52Has Ravi joined us or not?
00:59:53Has Ravi joined us?
00:59:54The U.S. servicemen from possible reprisal attacks from Iran.
01:00:00Rajdeep.
01:00:01Okay, Sandeep Unnithan and Gaurav Sawant, appreciate both of you joining us.
01:00:06I want to now go to a very special guest who joins me.
01:00:10Ravi Agarwal is Editor-in-Chief of Foreign Policy.
01:00:13It's one of the world's leading journals on foreign affairs.
01:00:17Joins me at the moment from New York.
01:00:19Ravi, thank you very much for joining me.
01:00:21You join us at a time when we've had this dramatic announcement by Donald Trump
01:00:26through Truth Social where he says there must be a complete surrender by Iran.
01:00:31What do you see as complete surrender as defined by Donald Trump
01:00:37in that tweet or post that he put up on Truth Social?
01:00:42Rajdeep, it's really great to join you.
01:00:43I would not take Trump's tweet too seriously.
01:00:47He tends to vacillate wildly on things that he says on social media.
01:00:53And look, he's been saying quite a few things on Iran over the course of the last few weeks.
01:00:57He's ranged from calling himself a peacemaker who does not want to get involved in foreign
01:01:02wars, which, by the way, his base is really strong on as well.
01:01:06The MAGA world does not like the idea of America being mired in foreign conflicts.
01:01:11So it could be, and a lot of this is pop psychology, as it often is with Trump.
01:01:17It could be that Trump has had a conversation most recently with the Israelis, which, you
01:01:23know, then leads him to say, well, we must be tougher on Iran.
01:01:26As one of your correspondents said, this could be posturing.
01:01:30The reality is this.
01:01:31Iran is a great historic power and civilization.
01:01:35They've been humiliated a fair bit in the last four or five days.
01:01:39There is almost no world in which Khamenei is going to surrender.
01:01:44There is no world in which he is not going to want to further convince his people and
01:01:50the region that he is still strong, despite all the hits he's taken.
01:01:54So Trump knows all of this and knows that he, you know, his statement either way is a
01:01:59provocation.
01:02:00I would see it as such, rather than see it as any direct move to try and take out Khamenei.
01:02:07You're saying that you don't see it as a direct move to take out Khamenei, but you've heard
01:02:13also the Israeli defense minister saying today that Khamenei could meet a Saddam Hussein-like
01:02:18fate.
01:02:19Is Israel simply ratcheting up the pressure with U.S. support, direct or implicit, to try and
01:02:27encircle Iran in a manner that eventually Iran decides to come to the negotiating table
01:02:32and say, OK, we're abandoning our nuclear program.
01:02:35Do you see that as a real possibility, that dialogue will take over J.D. Vance could well
01:02:41be meeting the Iranian foreign minister soon, according to some reports?
01:02:47Look, all of this is in the realm of things that Israel might want to try.
01:02:52But if you look at strategy, were you to somehow try to take out Khamenei, which I'm sure Israel
01:02:58alone has the capability to do, who replaces him?
01:03:01There's a fantasy, I think, on the left that there is a democratic opposition that will step
01:03:07in and then take over and everything will be rosy after that.
01:03:11You know, if you try to topple Khamenei, the supreme leader, you could easily have a replacement
01:03:17from the military.
01:03:18You could have a hardliner, you could have another dictatorship, the army will likely be
01:03:22more powerful.
01:03:23So there is no real clear strategy or alternative to be having these kinds of discussions, which,
01:03:30by the way, are in complete violation of international law.
01:03:33Where have we reached, Rajdeep, that it is OK to talk about taking out the leader of another
01:03:39country?
01:03:39This is not the leader of Hamas or Hezbollah.
01:03:42This is the leader of a country.
01:03:44So I do think it is very sort of improper for these two countries, Israel and the United
01:03:51States, to be having this conversation the way they are.
01:03:54But the second strategic thing here, Rajdeep, is nuclear weapons.
01:03:58Ostensibly, this whole thing began on Friday because Israel wanted to take out Iran's nuclear
01:04:04weapons.
01:04:04By all accounts, all they've done so far is set Iran back by three or four months.
01:04:09That's it.
01:04:11To take out Iran's nuclear weapons, you need those American bunker busters, which are 20,000,
01:04:1730,000 pounds heavy, which can only be carried in by American B-2 bombers.
01:04:22There is no sign yet that any of that is actually happening.
01:04:25It would take weeks and months, by the way, to even make that happen.
01:04:29So a lot of this is posturing.
01:04:32And, you know, it could be a way to get Iran to the table.
01:04:35I personally think it's a fundamental misunderstanding of how Iran works.
01:04:40This is a deeply prideful nation that is not going to respond to pressure in that way.
01:04:47So, you know, there are two elements to what you said, and I want to come to each.
01:04:50One, of course, is Iran itself.
01:04:52Are you saying it's very clear Iran is not Hezbollah?
01:04:55Iran is not the Houthis?
01:04:57Iran is a strong, sovereign nation, which you believe will consolidate around its religious,
01:05:04political leadership in this moment of adversity.
01:05:08And therefore, the United States needs to be perhaps even more careful before it decides
01:05:14to commit itself to action against Iran.
01:05:17Am I correct?
01:05:18You're correct in saying that.
01:05:20I'm not saying that this is necessarily what will happen.
01:05:23And I'm just saying it is more likely, were you to try to topple the regime, that the
01:05:28replacement would be along similar lines, than some sort of fantasy about a democratic
01:05:34opposition that does not exist right now.
01:05:36They have been utterly decimated.
01:05:38You can go back to the Shah's son.
01:05:41That, too, may not be the best move.
01:05:42We saw how that worked out decades ago.
01:05:44There's no great alternative here.
01:05:48Let's come to the United States itself.
01:05:50Donald Trump.
01:05:51Here is someone who was elected, Ravi, at the start of the year on the belief that he
01:05:55would make America great again.
01:05:58And part of that was that they didn't want to get in wars across the world.
01:06:02In fact, Trump came to power saying, I want to end wars.
01:06:04What's happened?
01:06:05Russia, Ukraine has got even more fierce.
01:06:08Israel continues to bomb Gaza.
01:06:10And now we have a fresh conflict between Israel and Iran.
01:06:13Is this Trump foreign policy unraveling because of its sheer ad hocism?
01:06:17It promised something six months ago.
01:06:20Six months later, we don't even know what Donald Trump will do next.
01:06:25So what role is America really keen to play?
01:06:28Global policeman or isolationist?
01:06:32Yeah.
01:06:32So I don't think American foreign policy is unraveling.
01:06:35I think there's, at the substantive level, there's certain shifts that are taking place
01:06:40in American foreign policy.
01:06:41At the superficial level, Trump has made these grand declarations about how he wants to be
01:06:48a peacemaker, how he wants the Nobel Peace Prize, how he can end the Russia-Ukraine conflict
01:06:53in one day.
01:06:54I think as he's realizing, it is much easier to talk than it is to do.
01:06:59And it is clear that he's becoming frustrated with the situation in Europe.
01:07:03He is frustrated with what's happening in Gaza and his inability to really sort of, you know,
01:07:10clap his hands and make big changes happen.
01:07:13And he's also frustrated because with Israel and Iran, you know, Trump is an even bigger
01:07:19supporter of Israel than President Joe Biden was.
01:07:23And when he looks at this particular conflict, he wants a quick end.
01:07:26What you are seeing on social media and the things Trump is saying is a manifestation of
01:07:33his desire for a quick end.
01:07:35However, that is now coming into a clash with his deeper instinct of not wanting America to
01:07:42get involved in foreign wars.
01:07:43And the reason why this is important, Donald Trump is a great politician.
01:07:47He understands how the American people feel.
01:07:50And the American people, by and large, do not want to be involved in foreign wars.
01:07:55Because it's not just the people, it's also the military themselves.
01:07:59If you think about it, America tends to send to its armies, people from the same families,
01:08:04multi-generations of commitment to the American military.
01:08:08And after Afghanistan, after Iraq, there's a real sense of what do we have to show for this?
01:08:14Now, that movement, which is often led by people like Tucker Carlson, Charlie Kirk, J.D.
01:08:19Vance even is a big believer of the end forever wars movement.
01:08:23They are now coming into a collision of sorts with some of what Trump is saying about getting
01:08:30involved in the Middle East.
01:08:31And we're seeing that sort of debate play out live right now.
01:08:35The other key figure, in a way, Ravi, in all of this is Benjamin Netanyahu.
01:08:41Here is someone who, on the other end of the spectrum, seems to believe war is peace
01:08:47and wants to wage war against Iran and its proxies.
01:08:52The war against Iran has been on his mind even since the late 1990s.
01:08:56Are we seeing now Benjamin Netanyahu simply out of control because he believes this is the
01:09:02moment when Iran is at its weakest?
01:09:04Is he, in that sense, as dangerous now to any kind of regional stability as many believe the
01:09:11Iranian regime is?
01:09:12That's a great question, Rajdeep.
01:09:14So there are two ways of looking at this.
01:09:16On the one hand, yes, he is a force of immense instability given what he has just started in
01:09:21Iran.
01:09:22And none of us know how this is going to end.
01:09:24None of us know whether Iran is going to escalate.
01:09:27Remember, Iran, if it wanted to, could stop tankers flowing through the Straits of Hormuz.
01:09:33It could really hurt the global economy and oil prices tomorrow if it wanted to.
01:09:39And I don't think it wants to go there.
01:09:40So in a sense, Netanyahu is daring Iran to really do some nasty stuff to the world or
01:09:48rush to the bomb.
01:09:50All of that said, Netanyahu is actually still reasonably popular at home.
01:09:55There is a real sense within Israel that on many of the things Netanyahu set out to do
01:10:00after October 7, weaken Hamas, he succeeded, even at immense human toll in Gaza, decimate Hezbollah,
01:10:09he's completely succeeded on that front, ward off the Houthis, succeeded there, and strike Iran at the one moment where it was
01:10:17weak, despite any negative sentiments from the West.
01:10:21So in that sense, he is still seen at home as a strong leader, albeit someone who's an opportunist, who's mostly looking out for
01:10:29himself. And all of that, I think, is another sort of big collision that we're seeing in the Middle East.
01:10:36And, you know, it plays out in very unpredictable ways.
01:10:39There has long been a movement to try and, you know, vote out Netanyahu.
01:10:45But every time they've tried over the last several years, they've failed.
01:10:49And that's part of the part of that is because of the immense demographic changes within Israel,
01:10:54which has become more conservative, more religious and more likely to back people like Netanyahu.
01:11:00So there too, longer term, Netanyahu is part of a trajectory.
01:11:05But, you know, just the big picture again, one of the flashes I had on screen, the big question was,
01:11:12is the West powerless to stop this conflict?
01:11:17Or have we seen the limits of power and therefore a world in a multipolar world?
01:11:25No one really is in a position to either reign in a Netanyahu, reign in a Khamenei.
01:11:30And is that a recipe for chaos that we are seeing playing out at the moment, whether it's in Russia, Ukraine, or now Iran versus Israel?
01:11:41I wouldn't say the West is powerless, Rajdi, but I am increasingly disappointed at the actions of the big Western powers.
01:11:48I'm disappointed that, you know, right now is a moment for diplomacy.
01:11:52There were diplomatic talks ongoing between the United States and Iran, and yet Israel attacked.
01:11:58Right at that moment, it could have waited for that to play out.
01:12:01It could have waited for Europe and the United States to issue their snapback sanctions on Iran as another lever.
01:12:09Instead, it attacked.
01:12:10It also broke international laws, including the Geneva Convention, in attacking in the way that it did.
01:12:16We just had the G7 that began yesterday and is still going on, and Trump left two days early.
01:12:24That was another moment for a chance for diplomacy.
01:12:28What we are seeing around the world, Rajdeep, is a retrenchment from diplomatic measures, a sense that there is impunity, that if you break the laws, there are no costs imposed on you.
01:12:41So if you're Putin right now in Russia, you know you've committed war crimes in Ukraine.
01:12:46You know that there are charges out against you.
01:12:49You can't travel to countries that are signatories of the ICJ or the ICC.
01:12:54Yet it isn't stopping him.
01:12:56There are war crimes charges against Netanyahu.
01:13:00Yet it isn't stopping him.
01:13:01And this is what worries me the most, Rajdeep.
01:13:04The rules-based order that we created 80 years ago after the end of World War II, it seems like no one's following the rules.
01:13:13It seems like countries feel like the order is breaking, and yet they're not able to come together and really change the system or reform the system.
01:13:22So honestly, that is the thing that worries me the most in my job.
01:13:25Does India have any role at all to play, Ravi, in all of this?
01:13:31India has been unwilling, unlike other countries, to seemingly take sides, even though there's a sense that we now have a stronger friendship with Israel than ever before.
01:13:42Do you believe India should be taking a stronger moral stand, as some have suggested?
01:13:47So, it's interesting that you asked that question by saying, should India?
01:13:54Now, the question is, is it in India's interest to take that stance?
01:13:59Should India, if it is purely a moral question that you are asking me, then yes, India should absolutely, for the world's sake, take a more active role in saying that the rules matter.
01:14:12We will follow the rules even when it's not in our advantage, because rules matter.
01:14:16If India takes that stance, it will be an immensely moralistic stance.
01:14:22And if it encourages other countries to do the same, and it imposes penalties on countries that don't follow the rules, that would be a wonderful thing.
01:14:30Now, is it in India's interest to do so?
01:14:32That is a whole other question, Rajdeep.
01:14:35And one could make the case that India has been acting in its self-interest for several years now.
01:14:42Gone are the years of, you know, the non-aligned movement or policies that were more humanistic.
01:14:47And you could make the case that in acting in its self-interest, India is advancing its foreign policy cause in an intelligent way.
01:14:55So these are two different aspects here.
01:14:58You know, and the Americans have realized this as well.
01:15:01America long sort of centered human rights in its foreign policy, not because it was in its self-interest, but because it felt it was morally the right thing to do and it could build a world in its image.
01:15:14Ultimately, that was in its self-interest.
01:15:16Now, America is more nakedly America first, more nakedly opportunistic.
01:15:22And so countries have a choice.
01:15:24Do they want to act only in their interests or do they care about something bigger?
01:15:28That is a question every country should ask itself.
01:15:32Ravi, I just have 30 seconds.
01:15:33What is the most likely endgame?
01:15:35Given all the dramatic events of the last few days, what is the most likely endgame?
01:15:39Are we heading, in your view, for a prolonged conflict?
01:15:42Or do you see hope at the end of this dark tunnel of missile versus missile?
01:15:48I think Iran doesn't want to prolong conflict.
01:15:51It can't afford one.
01:15:52I think Israel as well is going to find a way to claim victory.
01:15:56We're in an era, Rajdeep, where conflicts are sharp and short.
01:16:01And part of the reason is the weapons that are being used, drones and missiles.
01:16:05The other is spin.
01:16:07Countries and leaders are better capable of spinning stories than ever before.
01:16:12And the truth is, their respective media are also far better than they were before at spinning stories to their domestic audiences.
01:16:19That's another debate for another day, Ravi, that we should have because that's a little close to the bone given what happened when India and Pakistan clashed last month.
01:16:30But always good to talk to you, Ravi Agarwal.
01:16:33I hope to get you more often and give us your perspective from your vantage position there as editor-in-chief at Foreign Policy.
01:16:40Thank you so much, Ravi, for joining me and giving us that big picture on what's been another dramatic day in West Asia.
01:16:49Israel and Iran fighting each other, it appears, with a war that at the moment doesn't seem to have a clear endgame.
01:16:58To you, the viewers, it's time to end the show.
01:17:00Thanks for watching.
01:17:01Stay well, stay safe.
01:17:02Good night, Shubratri.
01:17:04Jai Hind.
01:17:04Namaskar.
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