- 6/16/2025
On "Forbes Newsroom," Rep. Mike Levin (D-CA) spoke about his amendment, the Respect America's Constitution Amendment, which reaffirms that only Congress has the power to spend or not spend taxpayer dollars, and was unanimously voted against in the House Appropriations Committee by Republicans.
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NewsTranscript
00:00Hi, everybody. I'm Brittany Lewis, a breaking news reporter here at Forbes. Joining me now
00:07is Congressman Mike Levin. Congressman, thank you so much for joining me once again.
00:11Thank you, Brittany. Good to be with you.
00:13It was a busy week. We have a wide-ranging conversation in store, but I want to start
00:18with an amendment that you introduced during a House Appropriations Committee meeting. You
00:23introduced what you called the Respect America's Constitution Amendment. To start off the
00:27conversation, talk to us about it. Well, this was a really simple amendment, and I have my pocket
00:33Constitution right here, Brittany. And in the Constitution, it's very clear Congress has the
00:38power of the purse. Article 1, Section 9, no money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in consequence
00:43of appropriations made by law. It's as simple as that. So I offered what I thought was going to be
00:49a really straightforward amendment just to reaffirm that Congress, and only Congress, has the power
00:56to spend taxpayer dollars or to choose not to spend taxpayer dollars. And I was shocked. I was stunned
01:03when my Republican colleagues voted no on the amendment. I still honestly don't understand.
01:11What you have right now is a situation where the Trump administration, and specifically the Office
01:17of Management and Budget, or OMB, is calling the shots. And Congress, unfortunately, under this Republican
01:25majority is not. I know that over the decades, Democrats and Republicans alike have wanted to
01:31support their presidents, their administrations. But I've talked to people who have been in the
01:36Congress for 30 years, for 40 years. They've never seen anything like this at all, where basically the
01:44Congress is flying blind. And as Chairman Tom Cole, who I have great admiration and respect for Chairman
01:50Cole, but as he said, they're making recommendations. Well, no, we're not. We're on the Appropriations
01:56Committee of the House of Representatives. And as I told my colleagues, I looked them in the face,
02:02and I said, what are you afraid of? You were duly elected, each of you, by 750,000 Americans to serve
02:11as their representative, to be good stewards of their taxpayer dollars, to decide what programs would be
02:18authorized, and how to appropriate the funds. And then it's up to the President to faithfully
02:25execute the laws, but not to figure out what the laws are. It's ultimately up to the Congress to do
02:32that. So we've not seen anything like this, Brittany. It is a wholesale abdication of the constitutional
02:38responsibility that has stood the test of time in this country for hundreds of years. I hope that this
02:47is a low point. I hope that Congress begins to get its relevance again. And this shouldn't have
02:54anything to do with your party preference. This is all about checks and balances and upholding the
02:59Constitution of the United States. And I'm still stunned that they voted against it.
03:05And every one of your Republican colleagues on the House Appropriations Committee voted against it.
03:10And you raised the alarm bells over this. This is what you said. If we don't defend the power of the
03:15curse right now, right here, we may never get it back. Talk to us about that, because that sounds
03:21like, hey, if we don't make this action now, it's over. This is a really slippery slope.
03:28Well, the appropriations process has been broken for quite some time. We go from, you know, what's
03:33called a continuing resolution to, you know, basically punt at current spending levels. We do that again
03:39and again and again. This is no way to fund the government of what is supposed to be the strongest
03:45democracy the world over, the strongest military the world over. And they know that. But what is
03:51happening is they have given up their power willingly, knowingly to the Trump administration.
03:58And I get it. They support the Trump administration. I get it. But it's one thing to support your president
04:04and another to forget that you're a co-equal branch of government. We as legislators are Article
04:12One, Brittany. The legislative branch is Article One. On purpose, the founders made it Article
04:18One. The executive branch is Article Two. And I just don't know how we got so sideways. My
04:25point to my colleagues was, if we don't take action to reaffirm that we are a co-equal branch
04:32of government duly elected by the people, then we run the risk of falling so far down this slippery
04:39slope that we will not have the constitutional republic that we have enjoyed that has made
04:45us the envy of the world for 250 years. I am deeply concerned. I worry our institution in
04:54the House is badly broken. And I pointed all around our committee room because we have all
04:59the portraits of all the past committee chairs. And I said, what would they say to you? These are
05:05Republicans. These are Democrats who have served as chairs of the House Appropriations Committee
05:10over all these decades, 250 years. What would they say to those in the room? I believe by and large,
05:16they would say, affirm that you are a co-equal branch of government. For goodness sakes, the Congress
05:22of the United States, don't just give up your power. One of your Republican colleagues explained
05:28why he was not supporting this amendment, Congressman John Carter. And I want to read part of what he said.
05:34He said this, quote, this amendment is an attempt to tie the hands of President Trump and his
05:39administration's work to cut waste, fraud, and abuse. What do you make of that argument?
05:44Well, it's not that we want to tie the hands of President Trump. The Constitution ties the hands of
05:50President Trump. By design, there are checks and balances. We are co-equal branches of government.
05:58If they want to fund appropriations consistent with the President's directive or value,
06:04that is up to them as elected representatives. But they need to work with us. We have as a role
06:12and responsibility under the Constitution, the power of the purse, the power to appropriate funds.
06:18And it's not about tying hands. As members of Congress, we're not doing anything other than
06:23upholding our constitutional duty. This is about the oath of office that we all take.
06:29And it's, look, I have great respect for Judge Carter. He's a decent and honorable
06:33public servant. On this, we just have a huge disagreement.
06:38Congressman, my last point is something that struck me is the timing of this, because you posted
06:44a video of yourself speaking to the Appropriations Committee. And the time stamp on that video was
06:501224 a.m. And I'm a night owl myself. I like staying up at night. I find I get my best work
06:56done in the middle of the night. But I mean, for transparency's sake, what do you make of the
07:01timing? What do you make of working on what you're calling a really important amendment in the middle of
07:05the night?
07:06Well, I'm a morning person, Brittany, so I was not so enthused about staying up. And look,
07:13we've had late night after late night after late night there in the Appropriations Committee. And I
07:19agree with you. I think these topics are far too important. And here's the thing. There will not be
07:25a floor vote because Mike Johnson would never allow a floor vote on something like this, on the power of
07:33the purse. This is the only time in this process through House Appropriations where the minority
07:40can offer amendments during a markup that need to be considered by the full committee. So this is the
07:46one shot that we're going to have this year in all likelihood to reaffirm that Article 1, Section 9 of
07:54the Constitution still needs to be addressed, needs to be upheld. And it's stunning to me. We were there
08:03until all hours of the day and night. We took a little break for the congressional baseball game on
08:08Wednesday, which I participated in. We took a little break here and there. But by and large, it was a crazy
08:14week. And I think we're going to have a few more crazy weeks because there are 12 appropriations bills. And we got
08:20through the military construction veterans affairs bill. And we got through the defense bill, and about half of the
08:27agriculture bill. And that's it. There's still, you know, 10 and a half to go.
08:33Well, I would love to pick your brain on more appropriations news as it comes up. But as you
08:38mentioned, this has really been a crazy week, a lot of breaking news. And I would love to pick your brain
08:43on some of it. I want to start with an incident we saw yesterday with Senator Alex Padilla. He during
08:50or FBI officers physically removed him from a press conference held by Homeland Security Secretary,
08:58Kristi Noem in L.A. on Thursday, as he attempted to shout questions at her. After he was escorted out
09:03of the room, he then was put on the ground and handcuffed. What do you make of the incident?
09:08Well, it was surreal to me. You know, I was sitting in the Appropriations Committee room during the markup,
09:13watching the clip of Senator Padilla over and over again, trying to understand what had happened. And let me just
09:20first say that Senator Padilla and I have known each other since our 20s. He's five years older than I am. He is a
09:27decent and honorable public servant, and in general is a very mild mannered person. And I understand the
09:34circumstances as follows. In that federal building, Senator Padilla has an office. He wanted to see
09:43the press conference with Secretary Noem. He was allowed into the room by law enforcement. There
09:50was clearly a lack of communication or coordination between whoever let him in that room and the U.S.
09:56Secret Service detail protecting Secretary Noem, because it appears that that detail did not know
10:02who Alex Padilla, the senior senator from California, was. And they were protecting Kristi Noem as they
10:10are supposed to. Now, here's the thing. I've been interrupted at town halls and press conferences
10:17over the years. So in that circumstance, if you know who that person is who is interrupting you,
10:24it could be somebody that you've seen before, somebody that you recognize, you give them the space
10:30to speak and you tell them, I'm going to need you to calm down. Otherwise, we're going to have to ask you
10:37to leave. And then if they refuse, at that point, you may need to get law enforcement involved.
10:44In this instance, it is inconceivable that Kristi Noem did not know who Senator Alex Padilla is.
10:53Senator Padilla is the ranking member on the immigration subcommittee, directly relevant,
11:00the subcommittee of direct jurisdiction that oversees Noem's work. So she, of course,
11:07she knew who he was. She absolutely knew who he was. Then after they, you know, get him out and they
11:14put him on the ground, they put him in handcuffs. The reporting that I've seen suggested Corey
11:20Lewandowski was the one to say, let him go. And, you know, you can read into that whatever you like.
11:25And they let him go now, knowing that he's United States Senator. He's saying all the time,
11:29I'm a United States Senator. Others in that room knew who he was, by the way. I'll buy that those
11:34Secret Service officers did not, that they were doing their job protecting Secretary Noem. But the
11:39other thing is, I was really taken aback by Dan Bongino's post about all this, saying that
11:45Senator Padilla wasn't wearing his pin. So here's the thing. We have these pins, members of the House,
11:51members of the Senate. We don't have to wear them outside of the Capitol of the United States.
11:57I'm wearing mine right now because I wanted to look nice for my interview with you. But I don't
12:01have to wear this pin just out there in a community in my district. It is my identification in the
12:07Capitol, not outside of the Capitol. And so Senator Padilla was not wearing his pin, but he didn't have
12:13to be wearing his pin, for goodness sake. So that wasn't a good reason at all from Dan Bongino's
12:18comment. So all that being said, I think that Secretary Noem really, you know, she very easily
12:27could have de-escalated the situation. She knew it was Senator Padilla, and she chose to go right on
12:34speaking. If you watched that video, she didn't pause for one second. She kept speaking. She knew what
12:39was happening, and she was fine with it happening. And she didn't even apologize to Padilla after.
12:47The whole thing is surreal to me, having known Senator Padilla for 20 years. And as I've said
12:53the last couple days, if you're critical of this administration, they don't want to hear that
12:59criticism. This is what we see in countries other than the United States of America. This is not
13:05American at all. And if it can happen to a senior U.S. senator, it can happen to anybody.
13:11I want to move on to the events that probably were the impetus behind that back and forth. And
13:18those are protests in Los Angeles. And protests in the city broke out starting last week over
13:23workplace ice raids. And then President Trump, against Governor Gavin Newsom's wishes, deployed
13:30the National Guard to the city. He then deployed thousands more of troops, both Marines and
13:35additional National Guard members. What do you make of A, the protests there, and B, the president's
13:41response? Well, first, we condemn all violent actions. What we need to see is peaceful rally,
13:50peaceful dissent. That's patriotic. That's as patriotic as anything in this country, to voice your
13:57opinion in a peaceful way. So anybody who's out there who's violent or destructive does need to be
14:02arrested. And just the same, we want for those who are in the country who are undocumented, who are
14:11drug dealers, criminals, gang members, human traffickers, we want them gone. We want their claims
14:18adjudicated, consistent with due process. But then if they are found guilty, we want them out. So we share
14:25that common goal. But what's happening here is obviously something far different than that.
14:31What started all of this is the belief that Stephen Miller, because of this quota, this arbitrary
14:37quota that he set, $3,000 a day, and because he and Noam were telling the agents that the bottom 10%,
14:46in terms of the number of arrests and deportations, the bottom 10% were going to be fired.
14:51So think of that. They set an arbitrary quota, and they turned this whole thing into a scoreboard,
14:57rather than a security mission. So you're going after people that are in restaurants,
15:04busboys, cooks. You're going after people working in hotels. You're going after day laborers trying
15:13to find a job in front of Home Depot. So the situation obviously escalated. There were agitators
15:19that acted entirely inappropriately. And the thing continued to build and build and build.
15:26But I think that the Trump administration's actions exacerbated a lot of this. And when they
15:32called in the Guard under Title 10, I think they did so prematurely. As the district court said,
15:39without the consent of the governor, it was illegal and wrong for them to have done it. Of course,
15:44it's being appealed and pending the appeal in the Ninth Circuit. President Trump and his administration
15:49still have control temporarily of the Guard. So that was bad enough. But calling in the Marines
15:56takes it even a step further. I represent Marines and sailors at Camp Pendleton. I'm incredibly honored
16:03to represent them and to support them. They are the best trained lethal fighting force in the world
16:09to win wars. They are not trained for domestic law enforcement against civilians. And before
16:19this last week, these Marines that were sent from 29 palms in the first Marine Expeditionary Force to
16:27Seal Beach outside of LA to get that training, they had not received non-lethal training or civil
16:36disobedience training or crowd control training at all. And they got a four-day training course. That's it.
16:44My understanding is that now they're protecting federal buildings, but that they also may be used
16:50to protect ICE agents, which I could see getting out of control very quickly. And my great concern is that
16:59for 150 years, we have had posse comitatus, meaning that the military cannot conduct civilian law enforcement.
17:11There has been a bright line between domestic law enforcement and our military who are trained to fight
17:18and win wars. And unless the Insurrection Act is invoked, which it has not been, because there's not been an
17:27insurrection, there's not been a rebellion. And, you know, until that happens, any domestic law enforcement
17:36being conducted by either the National Guard or by the Marines is a violation of federal law and should
17:45not be accepted by any of us. Governor Gavin Newsom also denounced any violence, any vandalism, chaos that
17:53is taken too far. He wants peaceful protests. But I want to read something that he said. He sued the
18:00administration over federalizing the National Guard. He called it authoritarianism and thuggish
18:05behavior. And he said, it's time for all of us to stand up. And then he added, what Donald Trump wants
18:11most is your fealty, your silence. To be complicit in this moment, do not give in to him. What do you make
18:17of that? I mean, what do you think people, and especially Californians, you're in California now,
18:20what do you think they should do, especially this weekend when more protests are expected?
18:26I would be peaceful, but I would exercise your First Amendment right to voice your opinion.
18:35And it's very simple that since 1776, we have not had a monarchy. We have had a republic. In fact,
18:44at the Constitutional Convention, Benjamin Franklin was asked what had been created,
18:49a monarchy, a republic. And he said, a republic, if you can keep it. And it's up to all of us in this
18:56country, as citizens of this country, to keep it in this moment where it's being tested, as it hasn't
19:04been since the Civil War, really. And it's a scary time. It's a scary time. I honestly, I try not to be
19:12an alarmist. I try not to exaggerate. I have always in my career tried to work across Seattle in good
19:19faith with people. I even did that this past week, as difficult as it was. But what we're seeing right
19:25now is something very different than I have ever seen in my lifetime, and something that we all have
19:31to stand against. Now, what concerns me most is the silence and the fealty that I saw from my
19:40Republican colleagues this past week. Those are members of the House of Representatives. And part
19:48of it is a reflection of the weakness and the supplication of Speaker Mike Johnson. If you had a
19:56strong speaker who was respected by the President of the United States, I think this would be a
20:04different situation. But what you have is Mike Johnson, who is seen as whatever Trump wants is
20:13what he'll do. He doesn't have, in my view, a backbone. And that is a massive problem. Because
20:22without a backbone, those rank and file members on the other side of the aisle,
20:27it's very tough for them to independently grow that backbone if they don't think that leadership
20:34will have their back. When you look at things, when you look at America, really, in the grand
20:40scheme of the world, it's such a young experiment. And when you say the quote, a republic, if you can
20:46keep it, I mean, when you're looking at the time when right now in 2025, President Trump is in his
20:52second term, how close do you think we are right now to losing that republic?
20:57Well, look, if you see the invocation of the Insurrection Act by the President of the United
21:02States, it is not unrealistic to believe that things will spiral from there. And where they go,
21:10I don't even want to think about. But it does keep me up at night. And it should keep you up at night
21:16too. We live in this extraordinary country, we have so much to be proud of. And I just want to
21:23make sure that the President remembers and that members of Congress, Republican members of Congress
21:30remember, we are all Americans. I had one of the other appropriators, Andy Harris, from Maryland,
21:38he's the chair of the Freedom Caucus, he accused all of us Democrats of having no regard for the
21:43military during the appropriations process. And so many of us were so deeply offended by that. We've
21:50had members of our family, or many of my colleagues have served themselves. How dare they believe that?
21:58If you don't show fealty to the President of the United States, you can be a true patriot.
22:05I didn't see any of them show fealty to Joe Biden, that's for sure, or to Barack Obama. I didn't
22:11question their patriotism at the time. Don't question ours. I do. Before I let you go, just
22:17want to get a quick reaction to what we've seen in the Middle East in the past 24 hours. Because
22:22we saw Israel launch an attack on Iran, and they hit nuclear sites as well as military sites. We have
22:31since seen Iran respond and retaliate with missile and drone strikes as well. What do you make of that
22:36moment? What do you make of Israel's strike? Well, first of all, I'm incredibly concerned about any
22:44Americans or American assets in the region. Obviously, Israel is a very important strategic ally of the
22:52United States. And Iran, in developing their nuclear weapons program, according to independent reports
22:58from the IAEA, were very close to having several nuclear missiles that they could do tremendous harm
23:08with. And not just limited to Iran, or not just limited to Israel, the Middle East, but we have
23:14to worry about this as Americans. We have to worry about Iranian nuclear capacity. This is a country
23:19and a regime that has said death to America, just as they have said death to Israel. So Israel has been
23:26in a multi-front war for a very long time, with obviously Hamas and Hezbollah, but also Iran,
23:34and also with Syria. And so it appeared that this was a successful targeted strike at the Iranian
23:43nuclear capabilities, both the scientists and the raw materials necessary to produce nuclear weapons.
23:50And I hope and pray that the situation does not spiral there. Just like I worry things could spiral
23:57here among our civilian community, I worry things are spiraling abroad as well. It is a dangerous time
24:04for the world. But I think Israel has every right to defend itself against imminent attack. When you have
24:11a country plotting to destroy you, and creating the means to do it, you have the right to defend yourself.
24:21I also am very disappointed, because I know that the sixth round of negotiations was supposed to occur
24:27this weekend to try to come to some sort of agreement for the dismantling of the Iranian nuclear program.
24:34And that has to happen. The Iranian regime must give up its nuclear weapons program, full stop.
24:45That being said, you know, obviously, as somebody who represents tens of thousands of service members,
24:51the last thing that I ever want to do is put them in harm's way unnecessarily.
24:57And I'm going to do everything I can to reinforce the need for diplomacy. And I hope for de-escalation
25:08of what is currently a very precarious situation.
25:11Congressman, we will leave it there. I appreciate your time, especially taking some time to talk to
25:16me about a very busy week. Thank you so much. You're welcome back anytime.
25:20Thanks, Brittany. Always good to be with you.
25:27Thanks, Brittany.