‘You Can Say Yes Or No, Did You Say That?’: Issa Confronts Witness Over College Collusion Claims

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During a House Judiciary Committee hearing on Wednesday, Rep. Darrell Issa (R-CA) confronted Julie Margetta Morgan, President of The Century Foundation, about her claims about collusion among Ivy League schools.

Transcript

00:00is recognized, Mr. Eisen. Thank you. Dr. Morgan, you went to Boston College, also known as one of

00:07the New Ivies, right? I did go to Boston College for law school. I have no idea whether it's called

00:13a New Ivy. Google says it is, and who else can we ask? The bottom line is undergraduate is now

00:23over $67,000, over $88,000 all-inclusive. Is that one of the elite schools that you would be

00:30referring to beyond the original eight Ivy Leagues? Absolutely. I do think that colleges...

00:37Good. And let me ask you a question. Since you made such a point that Boston College, or that

00:42other colleges, the basic eight, and we'll just add the New Ivies that charge similar amounts,

00:47they should be exempt from antitrust because they have a small market share and catered to the

00:53ultra-rich? My testimony offers no opinion... No, no, no. You made a point as an antitrust point

01:01that because they had such a small market share, they had little or no effect. I'm sorry. Can I

01:08answer the question? No, I want you to answer that question. Okay, so the point I'm making about the...

01:13I don't want to know the point you're making. You can say yes or no. Did you say that? Can you

01:18restate the question, please? What did I say? You said, and I'll paraphrase, thank you very much.

01:26You said that, you know, that we shouldn't be concentrating on them because they had such a

01:30small market share. Is market share a factor in antitrust activity of multiple companies working

01:39together in collusion? I believe we should be focusing on... Now, thank you for not answering

01:43that. You make it easy on me, doctor. Mr. Martin, is collusion, even without large market share,

01:52if it makes prices unreasonably high, if it has an effect, is that antitrust behavior?

01:58It's per se unlawful. Okay, so you have per se unlawful behavior alleged, and yet the Democrats'

02:05witness, for some strange reason, wants to say, oh, don't look at that shiny object. Instead,

02:10what we heard today was, give us more funding for the bloated state universities that also are raising

02:18their prices. Mr. Shea, you described yourself as sort of part of the wealthy and entitled,

02:28which is unusual in this body for anyone. Everyone else seems to want to be Horatio Albert.

02:34But your family was able to pay what needed to be paid at an Ivy League school, correct?

02:43Right. And most Americans can't afford this, though. $93,000 a year, that's like 150% of the

02:49median American income. Okay. And the evidence that's being presented today is that the effect

02:55is not just Ivy League schools, but if you take away the subsidies being paid by other taxpayers,

03:01all universities are rising at very high rates because of these practices, including what you

03:07talked about, this massive amount of overhead, if you will, inefficient overhead by administrators.

03:16Absolutely. Administrative overhead is growing not just at the Ivy League, but at state universities

03:20all across the country. It's risen dramatically in recent years.

03:23And Dr. Cooper, is it fair to say that one of the things you see among cartels, antitrust

03:30activity, and so on, is you see higher prices and less efficient higher overhead? Isn't that

03:37kind of a hallmark when you give antitrust exemption?

03:41That's correct. We often see higher prices and higher profits.

03:44So for our witnesses, is it fair to say that if, in fact, we bring back real competition at all

03:52levels, at all universities, and as a result, we then would be able to drive down prices, drive up

04:00the efficiency, we could, in fact, allow more people to be able to leave college without burdensome

04:06debt?

04:06I think that's correct. We need more competition in higher education.

04:13Okay. So today's hearing is really about antitrust behavior by the most esteemed university. And

04:20Mr. Che, I'm going to ask you a question. Is it your understanding as a rising junior, if I'm correct,

04:28that if you go to one of these great universities, the rest of your life, your career income is, on

04:35average, greater, isn't it?

04:37This is empirically true, is that if going to an Ivy League school can definitely raise your potential

04:43earnings, especially if you're from a low-income family.

04:47So, Mr. Martin, the tendency by the universities that will deliver the highest lifetime earning to

04:54restrict, to reduce, and as a result, to deny to the people who otherwise would have that opportunity,

05:01isn't that one of the real detriments of this antitrust behavior?

05:05It should trouble us as antitrust lawyers.

05:08Thank you. I yield back.

05:09Gentleman yields back. Now recognize the ranking member for-

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