- 6/2/2025
Billboard cover star Cynthia Erivo is gearing up to release her new album, ‘I Forgive You.’ The actress and singer shares insights into how she created the album and discusses the differences between filming ‘Wicked’ and ‘Wicked: For Good.’ She also opens up about her queerness, the role ‘The Color Purple’ played in her journey of self-discovery, and her experiences performing on renowned stages such as Coachella and The Kennedy Center, and more!
What was your favorite part of the interview? Let us know in the comments!
What was your favorite part of the interview? Let us know in the comments!
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MusicTranscript
00:00People don't know me as a musician in the way that they're getting to know me now.
00:05A lot of people have come to me first through Wicked or through theatre or through the big
00:10stages that I've performed live on. They don't know that the history for me of music runs a lot
00:16deeper than that and I guess I wanted people to see a fuller picture of who I am musically and
00:23actually when I'm not standing in front of you and singing those songs this is the stuff that I'm
00:28hearing and this is stuff that I've been singing my whole life.
00:42Well thanks for sitting down for this Cynthia. I appreciate it. I'm so excited to talk to you.
00:45You too. First things first, congratulations on your new album. Thank you. I've been listening to it
00:51pretty much on repeat since they sent it to me. This is your second studio album. You put out chapter
00:56one first one back in 2021 and I know that you've talked a little bit about how you weren't 100%
01:02satisfied with that process. Can you tell me a little bit about why that was? Well most of it
01:07was made in the pandemic. Yes. Which meant that I was apart from my producer and though I worked
01:15with a lot of producers and a lot of writers and they were all so lovely and I had such a great time
01:19with each one of them but they had different sounds different things that they brought to it and it
01:23didn't feel like it was one uniform story. Yeah. And it never quite felt like it was mine. This time
01:31I felt like I could really sort of hone in on what it is that I wanted with one person so that we could
01:37really create a sound that felt uniform to the whole thing that felt like it was mine. I could create
01:43something that belonged to me. Yeah. I think that's why it felt very very different. And I know that you've
01:48talked in past interviews about maybe with the first album you weren't necessarily with the team that
01:54you're with now. You weren't necessarily with the right people. I know that Ariana at least was very
01:59instrumental in introducing you to Wendy. Yes. And I'm curious what the change you noticed was from the
02:04first album to this next one with that new team. There's no one like Wendy. No. Wendy is a very singular
02:10human being who's just she gets it. Yeah. And the second I had a conversation with her she knew
02:15immediately what it was that I would want to do. She knew that I use my voice like an instrument and
02:21isn't just something that I like to sing with. It's something that I used to I use as a musical
02:26instrument. So she was like well why don't we do that. She said one word and yeah.
02:30And I was like oh I understand. Completely. I get it. Yeah. And she was like just use your voice
02:46like it's an instrument. So create the background, create the pattern, create the stacks and and the
02:51melody and then build around that. And I thought oh my god that makes so much sense. And it was the
02:56first time everything became really really clear and to have someone who understands who you are
03:02as a musician and a singer and an artist was just like a new strange but a new experience within this
03:10space for me as an artist. And I think she just is as passionate about it as I am. Completely. That
03:17makes a massive massive difference. And it's just the way that you are able to effortlessly flow in and
03:24out of genres. Like there's pop. We have R&B. There's some gospel and the singular thing tying
03:30it all together is the voice. That's right. It's so so cool. Thank you. It's really really nice to
03:36listen to. Thank you very much. You have like succinctly tied it in a bow for me because I think
03:42I get the question like what style is it? Is it? And I feel so crazy when I'm like well it's actually a
03:49combination of very many different styles. The thing that actually ties it together is the voice.
03:54The fact that the voice is used in many different ways all the way through it and you're going to
03:58find layering in practically every song that you hear. You're going to find stacking. You're going
04:02to find harmonies. You're going to find different rhythms all the way through it but it's all centered
04:07around the voice. Yeah and I know that that's something that you've said that you were admiring like
04:11the way that Ariana would do that on set. Yeah. Was that at all something that you were like watching
04:15her do it and then said oh let's bring that to this? Well I think I I admired it because I love
04:20it. Yeah I mean it sounds incredible. It's something I recognized immediately and so it's to be able to
04:25see someone else who like oh you understand it you know what this is so you know and when I started
04:30to share some of the music with her she immediately was so like encouraging and happy and it was we've
04:37been passing music back and forth and it was it's a really beautiful creative process to have someone
04:43who understands what it is that you want to do hear your music as well and who is basically one
04:48of the queens of it you know. Yeah sure. Yeah. And the thing that kept striking me as I was listening
04:52to this album I was like oh this is not a character. It's not a character. This is Cynthia. Yeah. And it's
04:57deeply personal the stuff that you're getting into too. Was that at all like scary for you opening up like
05:02that? I think the scary thing was getting ready to share it. Yeah. Because when something is personal you
05:08hope that people understand that your humanity exists and then they're not just listening to
05:13random stories that come from nowhere that they are part of you and you are pouring yourself into
05:19it. It wasn't scary to write because I didn't really know how else to write it. Right. Even the layering
05:26felt really personal and really connected. I guess you get both that there was sort of a confidence and
05:32a naturalness in the writing but to share it is where it becomes oh I have to share it now it can't
05:39just be mine anymore. I have been listening to the song specifically play the woman over and over and
05:46it's such a new lane for you of you being really sexy in that song. Yeah. It's crazy. Can you tell me a
05:52little bit about what into that? Well I the thing is I think people see a very cookie cutter version of
05:58me and I think we do this thing with people where we sort of isolate them or crystallize them in one
06:06space and we sort of go she's just that but I'm you know I'm not I'm not 19 I'm not a kid you know
06:17yeah and those experiences are real like I think we sort of get really shy about talking about people's
06:25sexual experiences or the way we feel about sex and sensuality and all those things but I'm almost
06:3140. I knew that I wanted to talk about that because it's part of human experience it's part of
06:35not just like a um a physical but it's also like a mental thing the thing that we have in our minds
06:42and our heads the things that we think about the the things that we desire the uh when we talk about
06:47pleasure when all of those things are real and they're real for me I think it's something I just never
06:53get to express or talk about with a whether it's as a singer or as a character I don't think I've
07:00been given the chance to do that as a character as a black woman you don't get that often and so
07:06I just was like well if I don't put it in my own music I'll never put it anywhere else if the if
07:13there's one place that I can put it it's in my music yeah and it's almost like proof of concept
07:17yeah in doing it where it's just like no I can do this too yeah it's like you contain multitudes yeah
07:21a hundred percent yeah that one she said I was also she said is so tender and so sweet
07:35and it's so lovely to hear you getting to really like express that feeling of very specifically
07:41queer desire in those songs especially considering the fact that this isn't something that we get to
07:45hear that often right in music period but especially from black queer women yeah and
07:51it's so so nice it's the tenderness I love the tenderness of that song because I think sometimes
07:57when we get songs about sensuality we sort of sometimes miss the tenderness yeah we miss the like
08:05the soft the sweetness of it I wanted to write that song and it came really naturally actually it's almost
08:12like a lullaby in its sort of way I just loved being able to talk about it in a way that felt
08:21universal like we all want to be loved and we all want to be touched but sweetly by someone that you
08:28know and you want to know that someone desires you and that's what I wanted to write about
08:44well before we go any further we should probably talk about this very small indie film that you did
08:49it's called wicked um tiny nobody knows it nobody knows it no one's certainly still talking about it
08:55I'm not afraid
09:01it's the wizard who should be afraid of me I know that there were a lot of people who you know thought
09:04that this movie would do well I just want to read some quick stats here uh the fifth biggest box
09:10office of any movie last year the highest grossing box office of any musical adaptation
09:16wow for a film that's crazy a soundtrack that reached number two on the billboard 200
09:20which is insane defying gravity reached number 44 on the hot 100 10 oscar nominations two wins how does
09:29it feel to be having all of that stuff happen it's insane yeah and it's insane while it's happening
09:35it's when when we started getting especially the stats for the soundtrack I think we were all like
09:41huh yeah because it's one thing to have it like in like if it's in the musical but to be part of the
09:48billboard 100 oh so it just is in the ether people are just listening to it on their way to work at
09:55this point people are just enjoying it as a piece of music which is so wonderful yeah that that the
10:03music can permeate wherever it goes as long as it connects then it's it's good obviously you know you
10:09were up for the oscar for best actress and I'm curious this is obviously one of the big talking points
10:14going into it was if you had won this would have been your egot award true it didn't happen this
10:19time how are you feeling about that today about like the status of the egot I you know what some
10:25days I'm like this just is sort of like looming over my head sure but other days I'm sort of like how
10:30lovely that it is yeah because to be in this position at this point in my career is really one a
10:39privilege but two a massive surprise sure you know when I came to do a musical those I didn't
10:48know I didn't even know that that was a thing I didn't know it was a possible thing that would
10:52that could happen to be one of those people that's sort of like on the edge of even looking that in
10:59the face is uh quite wonderful yeah I mean the fact that the color purple was your broadway debut
11:05just insane it's been a very wild ride it has in my life it's been a crazy journey to be here yeah
11:13obviously another key part of the wicked experience was the iconic press tour that you guys went on
11:19last year well I wanted yeah I didn't know that was happening first of all how are you feeling about
11:28the upcoming press tour I have no idea I'm sort of like I because I haven't seen the film
11:33I don't know what the second movie is yet um I'm kind of excited the prospect of what what it might
11:40be yeah what we might bring because we don't know none of that was planned no we just we just showed up
11:46as ourselves and we'll do the same this time and it'll probably feel very very different because this
11:50is a very different movie and we're we have very different experiences in it and so I'm kind of
11:54excited to see how it unfolds and I did want to ask a little bit about I know that you haven't seen the
11:59film yet obviously act two of wicked yes is very different from act one yes very and I am so excited
12:07to get to see the movie obviously this is a movie that deals a lot with themes of totalitarianism and
12:13fighting back against fascism I'm curious from your perspective as an actress how do you approach
12:19Elphaba differently in those parts because I know you filmed them all together but was there sort of a
12:23very very very different Jessica Williams actually she asked me if like I deal with like chakras and
12:31stuff and I was like yes in some ways and sometimes it's sort of engaging with what a person leads
12:37with and I was saying that Elphaba in act one or film one is um it's like head and heart
12:45and I was like Elphaba in act two is head sacral oh it's like grounded it's all uh it's really earthy
12:54feet on the ground she's sort of able to access her rage more oh yeah you know and I think that means
13:01that it all comes from everything is coming from a different place now this feels instinctual she's
13:08learned yes but now it like comes much more naturally to her right the approach just was
13:14different everything from the scent I wore changed oh wow the makeup changed things just little shifts
13:23that move you forward in her timeline that bring you to a more uh mature version she's delicious in
13:32this one oh unbelievable I can't I can't even think about it because like no good deed is my
13:38favorite song from this show one of my favorites to sing for sure
13:47the thought of you singing it has haunted me ever since I watched the first movie I'm like oh no
13:52that's gonna like change the chemistry of my brain when I hear it it's gonna be unbelievable especially
13:57after watching how you really took ownership of the songs in the first film and I'm curious what
14:03that process is like for you especially when you're dealing with such iconic songs I think for me it
14:10it's never about thinking how do I change this now how do I make this my own it really is about how do I
14:16how do I best connect with this and how does my what does my voice do and how can I make it as truthful
14:24for me as it was for anyone else who has done this and that's just what naturally comes out as you find
14:31those sort of changes that happen sort of organically then you then you decide to commit
14:37and we have Stephen Aramis and Stephen Schwartz telling us like yes or no I tried to be as
14:45connected to the original as I possibly could and let and I was allowed to sort of veer away when I
14:52needed to but it was always a very natural occurrence it never I was was never calculated this is how I
14:58sing and so this is how these notes leave my voice and my vocal chords and they just sort of let me go with it
15:07yeah
15:16obviously you had a very public coming out when you did that interview with British Vogue yeah even before
15:22that I wanted to talk about your first experience with your own queerness I know that you've said
15:27before you know when you were growing up you didn't necessarily have like the language to describe what
15:31you were going through when do you feel like was the first time you really got to like examine your
15:37queerness um I want to say maybe in my like early 20s sure maybe soon after I came here it came to
15:46New York when I first came out to do um The Color Purple that in itself was like a real examination of
15:52it because that character is a queer woman and I was like oh I get to sort of play this woman who is
15:59exploring and learning about her own queerness at the same time as trying to discover what love is
16:05and so this sort of wonderful thing happens at the same time I really sort of understood that that was
16:12what I was and I that I knew I was queer but I hadn't really ever explored it but doing that show
16:19really helped to sort of break open the conversation I was like oh this is oh it's the the storytelling
16:24this is storytelling about a queer woman which I had never for some reason had never really looked
16:28through the lens of it in that way I'd never I hadn't realized that that's what this was for some
16:35reason but when you're in it and you're doing the play you realize oh
16:37oh she's not just discovering love she's discovering who she is her queerness how she loves how to love
16:47herself all of those things in this one complex story which meant that I got to sort of do the
16:54same for myself as well it's also such a meaningful piece because I agree with you yeah the first time
16:58I saw you in The Color Purple when I was a snot-nosed intern back in 2015 with two dollars to my name
17:05but like that was one of the first times that I was really like oh oh they're gay okay this makes
17:13sense yeah yeah yeah and it's interesting because that's also a story about a woman coming to terms
17:19with her queerness later in life yeah it's not something where like she understands it from the
17:23jump yeah which I feel like is a really important piece of representation yeah because so often there
17:28are these stories about people knowing that they're queer from the jump and it's like that's
17:32not that's not the case for everybody and and and a lot of us have to come to it even if we have an
17:37inkling of it we we come to it much later and the learning takes a lot more time than than it does for
17:44other people because we really are trying to decipher how to describe what we're feeling what we are who we
17:51are where we are and and all of that can come much later for a lot of us it did for me yeah I'm also
17:57curious about you know I know that you very publicly came out in 2022 when did your sort of like personal
18:02coming out process sort of start when did you feel comfortable enough in your identity to start
18:08telling the people around you I I want to say it was quite uh so maybe like age 20 21 I started telling
18:14people that I cared about like I knew that knew me very well that I was queer right and I was bi and
18:21I was starting to like let people know that I felt safe with of course going on yeah yeah going into
18:28that story where you did publicly come out was there any trepidation on your part because I know that
18:34there is oftentimes a double standard in the way that yeah yeah are treated in public strangely I don't
18:41think there was any trepidation you know why I felt really safe I just was like oh I'm I'm tired of
18:48not sharing who I am fully I I guess I had this strange innate knowing that in doing that I could
18:56be free creatively to just all that space that was being taken up by like concealing it from certain
19:03people not saying anything kind of pretending that that wasn't what it was meant that I wasn't really
19:09freeing up my whole self to the work that I love doing and so to let go of that meant to like gain
19:16lots of freedom and space and yeah and um the more enjoyment in being yeah and then there is obviously
19:24the weird you know public expectation that comes with queerness and you know being out and representing
19:31and then also the backlash that often unfortunately comes with that what has your experience of that
19:38idea of balancing the sort of quote-unquote responsibility yeah with you know the way that
19:43people tend to react sometimes negatively to your coming out I strangely haven't hadn't seen too much
19:51negativity maybe I'm naive and just wasn't paying attention to it that I'm sure there was but I think
19:56I'm more interested in how it helps other people and so I think I was actively looking for those who are
20:05encouraged to be more themselves and being encouraged by me coming out to then let it be a conduit for
20:14them to also become more themselves you know I think I can't change a person's opinion of me if they
20:20want to feel that way I cut there's nothing I can do about that and if they disagree let them disagree
20:26it's not really for them to as long as I'm okay with it then fine um but for me I think I was so
20:34excited about being able to at least be one more face that someone said oh my god she she did it and
20:41can still do it and she's still creating she's still making and and so then maybe I can also do the
20:47same you have to take the good with the bad you can't please everyone not everyone is always going
20:51to be happy with everything but that is sort of human nature that's how we exist I'm comfortable in
20:57myself and if my being comfortable in myself encourages other people to feel more comfortable
21:03with themselves I'm good completely yeah I mean yet really the only example that I can actually think
21:10of off the top of my head of anyone having any negativity was this year uh the casting Jesus Christ
21:16Superstar because of course everybody had to get mad about that you know again you can't please everyone it
21:21is legitimately a three-day performance at the Hollywood Bowl and I get to sing my face off again
21:28it sometimes we seek out things to be upset about and sometimes we can just let things be and my I was
21:35I'm very excited to play Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ Superstar and hopefully there'll be a you know
21:42bunch of people coming to really just enjoy some good music some good set pieces yeah some wonderful
21:50singing not just from me because there are some amazing people that you're about to see and you
21:55don't even know yet but it'll be a really beautiful occasion I think and if you want to come and enjoy
22:01that beautiful occasion please enjoy I know for myself and a lot of the queer people in my life
22:06coming out is very much a part where you get to kind of unlock a part of yourself and then share that
22:13part of yourself with the world which is obviously sometimes scary but once it happens it really just
22:18feels so freeing it's fantastic I'm curious from your perspective what did you notice like changed
22:25not even necessarily about you but about the way that you felt after coming out I love that question
22:30because you can't you can't put your finger on it but you but there's like a it's like
22:36your feet finally hit the ground yes that's a great way to put it they find you finally like
22:42touchdown you're like oh I'm like in myself now that's what it felt like it felt like I finally
22:49was connected to to all the parts of me and it meant that there was um almost like a relaxation that
22:59I hadn't really experienced before over everything so even the work that I'm doing whether on set or in
23:09the studio I just felt a lot more relaxed your feet on the ground that's literally I was just like
23:19that's it that's a hundred percent yeah it's it's yeah you're just like connected to everything all
23:23of a sudden and it's like oh good okay completely yeah
23:33obviously you know we're living in an interesting time yes for the queer community
23:37yeah part of that is the political chaos that we're sort of living through as someone who is
23:44working in the entertainment industry and is having to deal with a lot of the vitriol that's
23:49coming from the oval office I'm curious how you've been reacting to what this current administration has
23:54been doing trying to be the a person that you can get positive things from yeah because that's the only
24:04way you can balance this stuff fear-mongering is very powerful and the only thing you can do in order to
24:13offset that is to feed it with like light and positivity so I want to encourage people to be
24:22as much themselves as they possibly can I want to encourage people to not decide to just tuck away and
24:27start hiding and not being themselves anymore because that's exactly what is wanted and the more
24:34yourself you are the more you're in front of people who don't necessarily understand the better
24:39understanding starts to happen fear seems a lot louder than it actually is such a good way of putting
24:46it you know fear is a small tiny thing that is shouting very very loud the person who is the most
24:53confident is usually the most quiet in the room yeah that's absolutely correct support the people
24:59who need support I think if you don't know what else to do go find someone who just needs a good
25:05friend a good shoulder to rely on someone who needs your support someone who needs to be
25:12who needs someone to talk to if you have a queer friend and you are not queer go be the friend that
25:17they can trust in that they can talk to that they can believe believes them right because that that
25:25is actually what's going to address the balance too like being the person that you say you are
25:29because there's lots of like talking about being supportive but you only need to go out and find one
25:36person to be supportive and actually be supportive yeah and I was listening the other day to your episode
25:41of last culture east test yeah Bowen and Matt and they said something that I was like that's the best way to
25:46put it I believe they said you are the patron saint of the Kennedy Center um which is absolutely correct
25:51I know yeah I've done so many incredible performances there yeah and obviously some
25:56things have changed at the Kennedy Center recently and I'm curious about your reaction to that I feel
26:02really sad about it yeah because it's such a beautiful place and it's you know been such a wonderful
26:07place of um creativity and music and fun and joy especially for me being able to perform
26:16there one of my first like solo concerts was there I did a concert with the national uh symphony there
26:21and it's really sad to watch this happen and I don't know what who gains what from that my logical
26:30brain doesn't understand it um and I just I hope that it comes back I hope we come back to what it was
26:39for the Kennedy Center is a space of creativity and art and music that's what it's for for everyone
26:54obviously Wicked has sent you into a completely new like level of fame and I was so fascinated
27:03like learning about you for this process because as an artist you have had so many breakthroughs like
27:09it was the colour purple and then it was you know Harriet and now this is just like you are now globally
27:15famous and I'm curious what that's like to experience from your perspective having all of these other
27:21breakthroughs and now this one that feels like eclipsing of everything else almost I I'm glad that I had
27:29those breakthroughs before because they're sort of like um it's like training yeah it's like school
27:36for what might come here and now I can still um it doesn't feel like it's gonna sweep me up right I can
27:43still I still feel like myself which is really I think a thing that a lot of us fear if this sort of
27:50happens that you lose yourself I really didn't want I still want to feel like me and when you approach me
27:56when you see me you're like oh she's still she's still present in her body she's still there and
28:01so that's what the experience has been like it's been really wonderful that it's a little bit nutty
28:05sometimes and I'm still there are things that I have to get used to but but I still feel like myself
28:10and to talk a little bit about that like what do you feel are some of the adjustments that you've had
28:15to make to this new level of fame um I'm I'm I'm a wanderer so I have to do voiceovers and and I love
28:23doing books and audio books and things like so I've been doing all of those and I still keep doing
28:28them but the place I go to do those things it's not too far away from where I live so I just usually
28:34would get on a razor scooter like a little push razor scooter like a not a uh don't laugh
28:41it's easy like it's like a bike but not a bike I just like I'm I'm on the street and usually I'm
28:49totally happy I could have gone without hat no glasses and I should have been fine but I did it
28:54once and um realized that I I'm not anonymous anyway and I've been doing it for years and years and years
29:00when I first got to New York that's how I used to get around on my razor scooter I love that yeah my
29:06director my director John sweet John Doyle who directed The Color Purple said to me Cynthia
29:15not going to be able to do that for very long and I was like but why I'm good it's fine you know and
29:21through New York I was totally fine for a while and then it started to shift and change but didn't
29:26shift and change too much so I sort of hung on to it and out here was like but cool I I if I'm out on
29:33that thing it's hat glasses otherwise I won't I won't make it to where I need to get yeah so it's
29:40like little things it's the anonymity is very it's it doesn't necessarily exist too much anymore this
29:47is something that you actually started to talk about earlier that I'm so curious about is oftentimes
29:52in this industry when you have an artist like you who is supremely talented at multiple things who is
29:58an excellent singer an excellent actress all of these things there is sometimes this weird phenomenon
30:03that happens in the industry where people kind of don't know what to do with you anymore yeah and
30:07they don't really know what lane to sort of send you in yeah and it becomes this issue is that something
30:12that you've experienced in your career I I did right at the beginning of my music career that was what
30:16was happening that's when I started like trying to find labels I would go I would they would hear
30:22loads of different things they'd be like you can sing everything and we don't know what to do with you so
30:26what do we do with you which is crazy when it comes to acting I'm sort of like I want to try it all I
30:33want to try on all the different types of people and characters because that's the name of the game
30:38that's my job to become different people to become different characters to to to tell the stories of
30:44different types of people as a singer what was lovely is that because I couldn't find a home for me it
30:52meant that my home ended up being on everyone's stages and singing live and doing all types of
30:58music music that I love and singing at the Kennedy Center honors and singing at the the LA Philharmonics
31:05and doing all of these things which meant that I could still just be myself and find out like where
31:11I live when it comes to music pick the things that I want to sing myself before finding a home as a
31:17as a vocalist and an artist yeah I mean that's the thing that I remain consistently impressed with
31:22you because you haven't really siphoned yourself off into one lane it's always about trying something
31:29new yeah it's always about what's the new role now we're going to try music again even your work with
31:34Edith's daughter yeah in producing all of these incredible projects like it's so impressive to watch
31:41someone have such a clear vision for what they want for themselves and then being able to execute
31:46it on such a high level thank you for saying that I really appreciate that and I think having a focus
31:52and the clarity and what it is that you want to do helps everybody else yes honestly it means that
31:57everyone gets to okay so this is what we're that's the direction we're moving in fine we can all get
32:02on board with that and we're let's move in that direction you know and it also helps for me because
32:07then I know what I need if this is the thing that I'm doing then what are the things I need to make
32:12sure this happens and and that's what I'll do and I'm determined as well I'm just like no is an answer
32:19that I use when I need to use it but often it's just how yes and how yes and how yes and how yeah and
32:27that's how you get experiences like being on the stage at Coachella which you were unbelievable thank you
32:35as soon as you said do you want to hear a little prince I was just like yes I do as a matter of
32:39fact I would love to hear some prince
32:48I was so surprised at how like how vast that audience was it was incredible I mean that had
32:55to be your biggest audience I'm sure I'm sure it was I'm sure it was probably my very first proper
33:01festival experience to perform at that was um that was wild and and really wonderful yeah
33:09and I was so glad that of the songs that you could have performed you decided to perform brick by brick
33:21I adore that song thank you and it's such an interesting different side of you that we get to
33:27see in that song yeah and I had a lot of my own interpretations that I was taking into that song
33:32but I wanted to ask you what were you sort of thinking about when you were writing that
33:36oh this that one was like a tough song to to write it's a definitely about an experience that
33:42that was difficult for me and I have taken time to heal from and still working on and it was sort of like a way to
33:53um take some ownership back a little bit from you know and I and I I want people to hear that song
33:59and feel comforted and feel like there's someone just like propping them up just a bit you know
34:05giving them more strength in whatever they're going through you know I know that you are very uh
34:10private about your personal life and it almost felt like a song of you saying it is okay for me to
34:14put up the wall yeah and say like you can't come in yes that's right that's a really powerful statement
34:19to be making especially yeah with this new level of celebrity that you're enjoying where people do
34:24feel a sense of entitlement towards you know what you are dealing with in your personal life and that
34:29like it really is about there is a space that belongs just to me you know I think that's true of
34:38everyone that we each we can give as much as we can give but there's also a small bit of space
34:45that just is yours that you don't have to give to anyone that you can keep for yourself
34:52that you can grow and blossom and be in and live in and no one gets to take that from you
35:00some of us should be and can be reminded of that yeah I mean I know that that's a conversation that's
35:05been especially talked about in the music industry of late Chapel Rhone last year set a very clear
35:12boundary with her fans and it was met with a certain level of backlash you know there were
35:17a lot of people that have that reaction that they often have with a queer person or you know a
35:22marginalized person in a position of power yeah where it becomes this thing of like well why aren't
35:26you grateful the thing is the truth is you can be grateful but you can still have a boundary
35:31there's there's no and I don't believe that Chapel Rhone isn't grateful I think she's extremely grateful
35:35for what she has and because if she wasn't she wouldn't keep working as hard as she works
35:39she wouldn't keep putting out the music that she puts out which is phenomenal by the way her voice
35:44is unbelievable it's crazy and all the work that's gone into it all the all this time all the things
35:50that she's consistently advocating for not just for herself but for other people if she wasn't
35:54grateful that that wouldn't be happening but that doesn't mean that she doesn't deserve to have
36:00things for herself I think that there is an interesting thing that happens where it's assumed that
36:06because you're in the public eye everything is for everyone but the fact is being in the public eye
36:12does not stop you from being a human being you are still human you just have eyes on you
36:19which means I'm totally okay to share some of my life yeah I'm totally okay to share I mean heck
36:25this album is all me I'm pouring myself out completely whenever you see me on the stage whenever you see
36:31me at a concert whenever you hear me sing whenever you see me act whenever you see me sitting with
36:36someone speaking I'm sharing you share but that doesn't mean everything has to be yours I should
36:42keep I should be able to keep something and you wouldn't want me to share everything
36:45absolutely nobody should have to or should share absolutely everything about themselves because then
36:52what's left exactly what's left it's okay to keep some things it's okay and it doesn't mean I love you
37:00any less it doesn't mean I appreciate you less than I have done doesn't mean that I I'm not grateful
37:04for the things that come with all of this but it's okay for my for me to still stay sane in front of you
37:13I'm so happy to hear that you are actually actively thinking about and having that experience of
37:19keeping your private self for yourself because at the end of the day it's nobody's business but your own
37:30last thing I'll ask you before we can finally wrap this you know you have the Tony's coming up that
37:36you're going to be hosting which by the way how have you been getting on with like the shows this
37:40season have you got to see any of them I have seen a few of them I saw luckily towards the end of the
37:47of last year which is the very top of this season I saw some shows last year and I saw some at the top of
37:54this year I'm going back to New York to see another bunch and then right before I go on and and do the
37:59Tony's I'm watching a bunch of the shows so I hopefully will see more than half of the shows in this season
38:07but so you have the Tony's yes you have Jesus Christ Superstar you have multiple film projects you are working on
38:13yeah you know you have prima facie that you're working on with Edith's daughter I mean there's so much
38:18yes and I'm curious
38:20you've accomplished so much in your career
38:23are there any areas of your career where you haven't gotten to accomplish something and that you're really looking at is like
38:28okay that's what I want to go for next I did my first film uh Drift um last year
38:34phenomenal film by the way thank you I want to see if I can get another film up on its feet to feel like
38:40commercially where I can really bring in a cast of people that doesn't need me to be in it at all
38:46I would love to be able to do that I'd love to be able to set something up that doesn't need me in
38:50it that I can just like bring some new faces in and you know share some new material with people and
38:57I'd love to do that with a film or a series I was questioned by one Michelle Yeoh about when I'm
39:04going to start directing and I'd been asked the question before and I sort of avoided it sure
39:13and then she asked me the question and the thing is when Michelle Yeoh asks you a question
39:20you know that it's a thing that is real yeah so I I think I had been pretending it wasn't and it
39:27wasn't in my purview but it definitely is something that I would love to do at some point I really
39:31want this album to to connect with people I think it's going to this is the one that means uh the
39:38most to me yeah there's anything that you hope that your fans could take away from listening to this
39:43album what do you think it would be that being a human is not tidy that all of the feelings that you
39:52get in or out of love are valid and real and human and visceral and don't be so hard on yourself because
40:02you have all those feelings the whole purpose of it being called I forgive you is not just to forgive
40:10someone else but also to look at yourself and go oh I'm being really hard on myself and I I should let
40:16that go for myself now yeah yeah absolutely how to move on after things might not go right with or
40:22without a person I can't think of a better place to end it Cynthia thank you so much for taking the
40:27time to sit down thank you this was absolutely lovely thank you thank you and we did it yeah amazing
40:36this was lovely thank you really lovely thank you so much