CrossTalk Bullhorns: Western Coalition 🎯🌍 | Ukraine Peace or Proxy War? 🤔 | Forbidden News - video Dailymotion

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While Western leaders continue to speak of peace in Ukraine 🕊️🇺🇦, their actions often tell a different story. In this explosive episode of CrossTalk Bullhorns, analysts Aleksandar Pavić and Dmitry Babich join the discussion to expose how the West appears more invested in prolonging the conflict against Russia than ending it 🔥🇷🇺.  With Donald Trump rising in U.S. political circles 🇺🇸 and Russia laying out its own peace terms, the West’s true intentions are under the spotlight 🔍. Is the goal really peace—or is this a long-term proxy war?  This conversation dives deep into the geopolitical games, media narratives, and the future of U.S.-Russia relations, all while Ukraine remains the battleground for global power plays.  #UkraineWar #CrossTalkBullhorns #WesternCoalition #RussiaUkraineConflict #ProxyWar #Geopolitics #UkraineCrisis #PeaceSettlement #AleksandarPavic #DmitryBabich #Trump2024 #RussiaNews #NATOvsRussia #WarAnalysis #USForeignPolicy #UkraineUpdate #UkraineWar2025 #EastVsWest #GlobalPolitics #UkrainePeaceTalks  Keywords used: Ukraine peace talks, Western coalition Ukraine conflict, Aleksandar Pavić commentary, Dmitry Babich analysis, CrossTalk Bullhorns episode, Russia Ukraine proxy war, Donald Trump Ukraine stance, US foreign policy Russia, NATO strategy Ukraine, West vs Russia, Ukraine conflict news, geopolitical tensions, Ukraine war explained, Russia peace plan, Ukraine 2025, political analysis USA, war propaganda, Ukraine crisis commentary, truth about Ukraine war, Ukraine battlefield politics.

Transcript

00:00Welcome to Crosstalk Bullhorns, where all things are considered. I'm Peter Lavelle.

00:18All of the talk of a Western peace settlement of the conflict in Ukraine hasn't produced much.

00:23For the most part, the West wants the conflict to continue against Russia. Importantly,

00:28the West courts Trump's favor. Meanwhile, Russia moves forward with its own settlement plans.

00:35To discuss these issues and more, I'm joined by my guest, Aleksandar Pavic in Belgrade. He's a

00:40member of the Serbian parliament. And here in Moscow, we have Dmitry Pavic. He is the deputy

00:44foreign editor at Komsomolskaya Pravda Daily. All right, gentlemen, Crosstalk rules in effect.

00:48That means you can jump anytime you want, and I always appreciate it. All right, let's start out

00:52in Belgrade. Aleksandar, we have kind of a tale of two settlements going on here, and they're

00:58running parallel, and they don't have any points of contact, at least from what I can tell thus far.

01:06We have, on the one hand, we have a West that is confused, going at cross-purposes,

01:12very often illogical, not taking into account facts on the ground, ignoring past,

01:19the recent past, particularly the last 10 years. A lot of squabbling, and the point of nexus is

01:27Donald Trump. Trump is on our side. Trump agrees with us. Well, if you look at the time,

01:33the New York Times, the Washington Post, Wall Street Journal, they're running fabrications.

01:39Trump has not agreed to very much of what the Europeans want. And then we have the other side,

01:45Istanbul 2.0. And from what I can see, the Russian side is just picking up where they

01:53left off when the Ukrainians unilaterally walked away in the spring of 2022. Very different

02:01trajectories, and I don't see any point where they're going to connect anytime soon. Your thoughts,

02:06Alexander? Well, first, I'm shocked that the Washington Post and New York Times,

02:11shocked, shocked that they're publishing fabrications. I mean, really.

02:18But, you know, that's par for the course. And as you say, two parallel courses, parallel lines never

02:24meet. And unfortunately, it seems that's the way it's going to go. As long as we have this

02:32team, this EU deep state that's trying to prolong the war as much as possible, they don't want to give

02:39up on the war, because they never had a plan B. Plan A was the only plan they had, and it was regime

02:45change in Moscow. Let's be really clear about that. The only consolation prize they were prepared to

02:53accept was a fatally weakened Moscow with a puppet government, returned to the 90s type of government,

03:02Yeltsin 2.0. That would be a kind of something that would settle for if they couldn't do a classic

03:10regime change. So their problem is Trump won the elections in Washington. They couldn't steal them

03:18this time like they did in 2020. And we no longer have a collective West. And no matter what the Western

03:29media are saying, Trump is obviously a lot closer to Putin's point of view than he is to the point of

03:39view of anyone in the EU, except for Orban, for Viktor Orban, I would say, and probably Robert Ficco.

03:48And that's the problem that the EU is being faced with right now. Trump practically shut down their plan

03:56of pushing Russia into a corner with the demand for a 30-day ceasefire. Trump just, you know, said,

04:09no, no, you should meet. You should accept Putin's offer to meet in Istanbul. And he shut them down

04:15cold. They had a good conversation, two-hour conversation. As Trump said himself, both of them

04:21said it. And the worst thing maybe for them is what Trump said at the end. He said the two sides

04:29should talk directly, meaning he doesn't, he's not pushing the EU as any sort of a mediator or anyone

04:37from the West. You know, that's what's called a stink through the heart of the vampire.

04:43Well, what it also does, Alexander, and I'll move, I'll pass it over to Dima here,

04:48is Trump has basically said, I brought them to the table. They're sitting at the table.

04:52Get to work, gentlemen. Thank you very much. I've got a taxi to catch. Bye. That's what he wants to do.

04:59Obviously, it is his war because he is president of the United States. But

05:05I do understand what he means is that I didn't bring this about at least to this magnitude.

05:11And he has a lot of other things on his mind here. You know, Dima, when I look at Western,

05:16you know, there are new peace plans coming out and it's all being discussed and all that.

05:21When I look at the Russian side, well, they just continue to continue what they're doing. Okay.

05:28It's no secret in the Russian media that there are Russian forces preparing for a new offensive,

05:35the summer offensive, they're calling it. We had a prisoner exchange, which was par for the course.

05:42I mean, all of this white noise in the West doesn't seem to really impact Russian decision

05:48making whatsoever. And the West doesn't pick up on that. The fear of sanctions is ridiculous.

05:55What else are you going to sanction? Okay. I mean, it's done and it's failed. And so,

06:00you know, again, you know, these two parallel tracks, the Russians will just continue to say,

06:05we're going to keep doing what we're doing until you want to go sit back at the table like you did

06:10in 2022. And then we can solve the problem. We'll be to Russia's advantage. Probably will be to

06:16Ukraine's disadvantage. Probably. But that's what happens when you lose a war. Dima.

06:22Well, first, I would like to say that, of course, Russia wants the war to end. You know,

06:27we want peace more than anyone else because our people are dying on both sides. This is the major

06:32difference between Putin and Zelensky. Zelensky considers us enemies, subhumans, you know,

06:39the people whom he openly hates. Putin has been saying for one time Ukrainians and Russians are

06:46one people. This is disputable. There are various points of view about that in Russia. But that just

06:52shows you that for him, you know, the death of Ukrainians is a pain, you know. But look at what

07:00happens. What is happening. The Western media is not covering it at all. They report on Russian

07:06strikes against military objects in Ukraine. But there were hundreds of Ukrainian drones

07:14taking Russian cities. In the last week, especially on the 9th of May, on our victory day,

07:20it was unprecedented. So what Russia is doing is basically responding to these drone attacks.

07:27But this is filled in the West. You know, the Western TV companies are carrying it. They're not

07:32carrying footage from Tula, which was attacked today. And Tula is a Russian heartland. You know,

07:41this is where no invader, you know, not Napoleon, not even Hitler managed to get there. So obviously,

07:49there is no will for peace on the Ukrainian side and on the Western side. And here I agree with

07:54Alexander. He says it is EU deep state. I would say it's ultra liberal Western ideology, which is the

08:01same in the EU, in South Korea, you know. And Trump, the only advantage that he has, he has a lot of

08:11disadvantages. He does not believe in this ideology. So that makes him suddenly very different. Look

08:18what happened just recently. He lifted the sanctions on Syria. Okay, belatedly, Syria has a terrible

08:24government now. But I still think people should not suffer. So, and the EU keeps the sanctions. You

08:31know, they say, okay, there was a revolution in Syria. We're happy. But it is such a pain in the neck

08:38to change the rules. Let them starve for another year or two years.

08:43Okay, but you bring up really good point, Alexander. This is, you know, I agree with

08:47it. This is ideologically driven, but there's an element of neocolonialism. I mean, I'm reflecting

08:53upon your first answer there that for some reason, the Europeans have the right to determine what

08:58government should rule and which ones don't. They have the right to say an election is good or

09:03election is bad. I mean, I'm thinking of Romania, okay, or the sham election in Moldova. And we have a,

09:11we have a figure in Kyiv that no longer has a legal mandate, but it doesn't matter because

09:16it's Europe. Europe decides what's kosher and what's not kosher. Alexander.

09:22Yes. We go back to what the previous EU figures have been saying. You know, those parallels,

09:32like the EU is a big, it's a garden and outside of the EU is the jungle.

09:37Yeah. Joseph Burrell. Yes. Yeah. Yes. And we had Robert Cooper about 20 years ago. He was a close

09:45aide to Tony Blair, who said double standards are actually okay. We need to apply double standards

09:52because we're, we're civilization. Everything outside of civilization is, you know, the wilderness

09:59and we need to tame the beasts, you know, and that's the way the West has been looking at the

10:05rest of the world for centuries, actually. And they can't get used to the fact that they're no longer

10:13the chief, the main, you know, the rulers of the world, the ones who set the rules. They're still

10:22clinging to this fiction of a rule based, rules based order where they make up the rules as they

10:29go along and change them if they don't suit them anymore. That's very different from international

10:35law. They tried to impose that on the rest of the world. But unfortunately, Russia has been getting on

10:42its feet for the last 20 years. China, you can't any longer do that. And plus we have an administration

10:49in Washington who's openly saying, yes, the world is multipolar. That's a normal state of affairs.

10:56The world has mostly been multipolar throughout history, and it should be multipolar again.

11:02In that kind of a world, the EU is absolutely outdated. They're obsolete. How can they impose

11:09their own rules on a multipolar order? Well, there's the assumption that their ideas are power,

11:16is power in itself, which is absurd. It has nothing to do with geopolitics, okay? I mean,

11:23geopolitics folks, everybody watching this here, doesn't care about regime character. It just

11:29doesn't, okay? Power is power, but ideas are not power on the international stage. Dima, jump in.

11:35They like to talk about dictatorship, personalist dictatorship. But there's also a dictatorship of

11:42ideology which is worse than personal dictatorship, because there can be benevolent dictators. History

11:49knows a lot of that. But a radical ideology like the one they have in the West now, it has no pity.

11:56It has no human feelings. It has no fear. It's not afraid of a nuclear war. For the ideology,

12:03what is important for any ideology is its victory. Okay, there are many nice ideologies, social democracy,

12:11Christian socialism, but they are all dead in the West. The only one left is the so-called

12:19liberal ideology, which is basically ultra-liberal. And what we see, we see how it makes people poorer,

12:26because if you have a monopoly on ideology, why not have a monopoly in economy? Why not have a monopoly

12:34in culture? We have basically one set of values, one set of ideas, which are kind of recycled in

12:44the West during the last 30 years. All the other ideas are filtered out.

12:48Well, and ultimately, Dima, it outlaws dissent because this ultra-liberalism makes the claim

12:58that this is the pinnacle of the human condition. I mean, it's really remarkable. It's kind of like

13:04actual existing socialism in the Soviet Union in the 1970s. All right, gentlemen, I'm going to jump

13:09in here. We're going to go to a short break. And after that short break, we'll continue our discussion

13:12on Ukraine. Stay with RT. Welcome back to Crosstalk Bullhorns, where all things are considered.

13:22I'm Peter Lavelle. Remind you, we're discussing Ukraine. I want to go back to Belgrade. Alexander,

13:29when I talked to people about how to end this conflict, which was intentionally made difficult

13:35to end. We saw that Trump proofing and all of this we saw before the election last year in the United

13:43States. But I think the fundamental issue really at play, and it's something Western leaders and

13:50pundits don't like to talk about because it demands their culpability. And it's a one word. It's a simple

13:57word. It's a one syllable word. It's called trust. And that's where I, when I make my position clear,

14:06that this conflict will come to an end when the battlefield determines it. Because there's no way

14:16the Russian leadership after, particularly the history of the entire Cold War and the post-Cold War,

14:22has any reason whatsoever to trust anything that a Western politician does, not even a document,

14:29okay, that is signed. That's really the difficulty we have here. And with the lack of trust, then you're

14:35going to, Russia will, under its own terms and conditions, come to the conclusion of a peace settlement

14:42when its security is satisfied. That's a conversation people in the West don't want to have, Alexander.

14:49No, they don't. You know, during the Cold War, there was this phrase, trust but verify.

14:55You can't even verify with these people. They don't want to let you verify. And even if you verify

15:01the next day, they'll go back on their word. The most recent, the most recent experience Russia has had

15:07is with the Minsk agreements. You know, what more proof do you need? I mean, I can go and the Russians

15:14have been watching very carefully, a former Yugoslavia, Serbia, Kosovo. We still have a live

15:22living resolution, UN Security Council Resolution 1244, which three of the five member states have

15:29trampled the US, Great Britain and France. They recognized so-called Kosovo, even though the resolution

15:38clearly states that it's part of Serbia and the final settlement is supposed to be at the end of

15:45negotiations, which have not, which never ended. We have the Dayton Agreement in Bosnia and Herzegovina,

15:51which the US brokered in 1995. And the ink wasn't even dried. And they already were at work in trying

16:01to modify it, talking not about the letter of the agreement, but the spirit of the agreement. And we

16:07know where that can lead us. So we both have vast experience with the reliability of the West. So what's

16:17left? It's just like what you said, uh, on the ground, you, you, what you have on the ground,

16:23what you hold on the ground in the end, that's all they can respect, unfortunately, but that's the way

16:29it is. And the West is to blame for it. Not Russia, not Serbia, not China, not anyone else.

16:37One of the, one of the problems, again, all of us are looking, uh, what, um, um, think tankers are

16:43coming up with, uh, uh, a ceasefire, a truce, um, you know, some kind of resolution.

16:51And it, it always ends up being Minsk 3.0. And all of us know that the first Minsk one and Minsk two

16:59were grossly violated. We, we, we know Halland and Merkel publicly talked about this. Okay. Um, when,

17:07when I, when I confront someone about, oh no, they never said that. I mean, how do you deal with

17:12people that say, oh, they never said that, that that's a, that's a, that's a Kremlin talking point.

17:17I mean, how, you know, so if among punditry and think tankers and all that, we can't have a, uh,

17:24a set agreed facts, how can, how can politicians do it? Because politicians are notoriously known for

17:32being economical with the truth. But if we can't have a solid playing ground of what facts are,

17:39there's, it's no mystery that they keep going back to, oh, we have to go back to the Minsk process.

17:44Well, the Minsk process died on the first day of the special military operation. Dima.

17:50Well, well, not only the Minsk process, but also, uh, let me remind our viewers, uh, uh, they can check,

17:57uh, their databases. In February, 2014, there was a truth between Yanukovych and the violent

18:04opposition guaranteed, guaranteed by the ministers of foreign affairs of France, Germany, and Poland.

18:12Yep. Uh, the, the minister of foreign affairs of Germany is, is the German president now. So

18:18before the increment dried on that agreement, on the same day, you know, the Maidan crowd burned

18:24several people alive, continued its attack, and the West applauded and never, never reproached,

18:31uh, you know, the Maidan people for doing, for basically breaching.

18:35Well, you know what, Dima, Dima, if it was, if the rules-based order were actually in play,

18:41European capitals, including Washington, should have, um, um, denied legitimacy of the coup regime

18:49and started sanctioning it. But no, they, they, you know, it's amazing. On the same day they signed

18:56this document, the next day, oh, oh, Yanukovych, you never met the guy. We don't know who this guy

19:00is. I mean, that's how blatant it is. And so Alexander, go ahead, Dima, finish up.

19:06Yeah. Just, just finishing about the truth. It's not coincidental that I mentioned career.

19:12You know, the example that they usually give is 1953, when the truth gradually, uh, you know,

19:18grew into something like peace, you know, and, uh, uh, well, or the lack of, the lack of hostility.

19:25The lack of war. Exactly. But that's not going to work now. First, because the West has changed.

19:31In 1953, first, Stalin did not want, uh, the war to continue. So he pressured, uh, he has been

19:39pressuring Kim Kim Il-sung to, to basically, uh, uh, reach a compromise. And the West, uh, was unwilling

19:46to continue fighting. And the UN was then a powerful body, you know, it, it could enforce

19:52its resolution, uh, on both sides. You know, the, the, the UN had inspectors watching that the

19:58West would not send weapons to South Korean army. Uh, now it's a completely different situation.

20:04And, and the West is to blame for it. I mean, uh, after 1991, when the Soviet Union collapsed,

20:11a lot of people expected the North Korean problem to be resolved, uh, in the German way,

20:16the reunification of East Germany and West Germany. But then Koreans in the North, they saw what

20:21happened in Germany, whereas Germans became second-class citizens. That was in store for

20:27North Koreans. So now that solution is no longer on the table. North Korea will depend, it will develop

20:33on its own, opening context to China, Russia. In this way, it will be, it will be living in its

20:39isolation. And, uh, I'm sure it will vanquish poverty. It will become richer thanks to, uh,

20:46a connection to, to these countries. It was the West that made the reunification solution impossible.

20:53Their policy, the examples that North Koreans see everywhere in the world. That's why they supported

20:59us in this war out of principle, not for, I'm sure it was not for material reasons. They just don't

21:05want to be the next. So they, they supported Russia out of principle. You know, Alexander, the,

21:13the West likes to claim, uh, that it invented democracy and it is the great protector of democracy

21:20and it is the great exemplar of democracy. But I've never come across in the last three years,

21:26any European polity that has been asked their opinion about this conflict in Ukraine. Can you

21:31think of one case where Europeans were saying, do you vote for this? Because we had the former German

21:37foreign minister, Annalena 360 Baerbach, um, uh, you know, she's saying, I don't care what my voters

21:43think about Ukraine. Yeah. We didn't have any sort of a referendum. No. Uh, but we did have, uh,

21:50peace candidates in Romania. There we go. And, and what happened? Well, the elections were annulled.

21:59Why? Because the wrong candidate won. The pro peace candidate won, uh, won in the first round

22:06in, uh, in, uh, December. And now, you know, they, they practically stole the election from his, uh,

22:13successor. It's obvious. Uh, well, they, I mean, mathematically it, there's no rhyme or reason to

22:21the outcome that, uh, they claim. I mean, the, those kinds of shifts are just never seen in, in,

22:28in, in, in, in elections. It just, oh, no. Inconceivable. And then they were toying with the

22:34idea of banning the AFD in Germany. It was only, I think mostly because of pressure from the United

22:40States that they backed off, uh, probably just temporarily. For now, for now. Yeah. And banning

22:48Marine Le Pen from politics because she's also an anti-war, uh, candidate as well. So that's,

22:56you know, whenever, whenever somebody appears that's not interested in waging war against Russia,

23:03the biggest nuclear power in the world, uh, the EU jumps in and says, no, we want more war.

23:11But you know what their problem is? Their problem is the following. I would say the problem is similar

23:16to what, uh, Stalin said, uh, about the Vatican after the war. He asked how many divisions of the

23:22Pope have, uh, the EU is sort of like the Vatican. They still need the United States in order to, uh,

23:32present some sort of a tough base, a front against Russia. But the new president,

23:39the new administration is not interested in that. So what they're, what they're trying to do,

23:45I think, is buy time until they can build up their own European army. No, no, Alexander,

23:51I think they're just waiting for the midterms in the United States. That's what they're waiting for.

23:56That they just want to see if they can write it out. It's illusory. It's, it, it, it, it is,

24:03you know, that this is a, um, a fever dream they have, uh, we're rapidly running out of time.

24:08You know, Dima, um, uh, as the prisoner exchange is, uh, coming to an end, uh, the Russians have

24:16announced that they will have their peace memorandum, um, to be, uh, to present, uh,

24:21presumably to the Ukrainians and the world. Um, do you expect any surprises, Dima?

24:26I expect that it will be centered on security and rights, human rights of Russians and non-Russians

24:36in Ukraine mostly. It will be less about territory. It will be more about security and rights.

24:41And, uh, you know, just to pick up a little bit on Europe, you know, they're going, uh,

24:46one of the plans announced by Bloomberg is that Europe will buy weapons from the U.S. and give it

24:52to Ukrainians. And the question is, did anyone in Europe vote for that? Is it democracy? You know,

24:58what we see in Europe is basically a trampoline on everything, not only democracy, but property rights.

25:05Uh, you know, when the so-called Russian oligarchs and simple Russian citizens suddenly lost their

25:11property in Europe. Well, the theft of three, Dima, the theft of $300 billion is the biggest heist in

25:18history. It's the biggest robbery in history. So, uh, let me finish on this. Uh, uh, you know,

25:25strangely, the founding fathers of the American Republic never wrote the word democracy in their

25:32documents. They talked about freedom, about property rights, about freedom of speech. What

25:37happened in Europe is that they not only lost democracy, they lost all of these other things,

25:43which, uh, very special limited U.S. democracy was supposed to protect. They lost. Dima, I hate to

25:49interrupt you mid-thought, but we've run out of time. I want to thank my guests in Belgrade and here in

25:54Moscow. And of course, I want to thank our viewers for watching us here, RTC. See you next time. Remember,

25:58cross-stock rules.

CrossTalk Bullhorns: Western Coalition 🎯🌍 | Ukraine Peace or Proxy War? 🤔 | Forbidden News

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